planetf1.com

It is currently Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:37 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2550
Lewis Hamilton goes on and on with a drive, commitment and determination which is to be admired. Once again he has produced a stellar performance and helped to lead his team, Mercedes, to yet more great and prolific success, in what now must be considered the most dominant era for any team in Formula 1 history.

Congratulations, Lewis!











https://streamable.com/v6826


It's been a quite extraordinary journey so far. In the aftermath of this accomplishment, please leave your comments, thoughts, opinions here.

:thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 1353
A massive congratulations to Lewis - the greatest of his generation and up there with the best of all times. I look forward to following his quest for seven (and hopefully beyond) and the wins record.

This season has been one of consistently high performance, with his only off race being Austria. Hopefully he finishes the season in the same manner :thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 707
JN23 wrote:
A massive congratulations to Lewis - the greatest of his generation and up there with the best of all times. I look forward to following his quest for seven (and hopefully beyond) and the wins record.

This season has been one of consistently high performance, with his only off race being Austria. Hopefully he finishes the season in the same manner :thumbup:


Germany was an off race too, sliding off the track when in the lead.

That being said, he was still the best this year for sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6977
Yes Congrats are in order. Another outstanding season in a legendary career. It's also amazing to consider that, in the last 20 F1 seasons, either Hamilton, Vettel or Schumacher have been WDC 15 times! That's 75% of the titles going to 3 guys over a 2 decade time period! Not sure you'll ever see that again.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2550
sandman1347 wrote:
Yes Congrats are in order. Another outstanding season in a legendary career. It's also amazing to consider that, in the last 20 F1 seasons, either Hamilton, Vettel or Schumacher have been WDC 15 times! That's 75% of the titles going to 3 guys over a 2 decade time period! Not sure you'll ever see that again.



Given where the sport is headed, I can't quite imagine only three drivers sharing 75% of Championships from 2020-2039. In theory, the competition should close up in the next chapter for Formula 1. Also, two of the drivers who are a part of the stat you just mentioned were/are particularly special.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:59 pm
Posts: 97
Congratulation Lewis!!! I have been a big fan since he started in 2007. What I see now is a much more refined and consistent driver now, truly the master of his craft. An amazing accomplishment to be a 6xWDC champion, and I am glad to hear that he still feels that he will be at this for a few more years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 1409
Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton for winning the 2019 World Driving Championship.

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2550
I expected a very muted response to this thread with not much in the way of opinion nor reflection. Nonetheless, I shall keep us ticking with a few articles found over the WWW.

Lewis Hamilton ‘reminds me very much of Ayrton Senna’, says Gerhard Berger
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -berger-f1

“I have been asked a lot about young drivers coming up, ‘Do you see Senna in them’, and I always say: ‘No, Senna was different, he wasn’t comparable.’ But now Lewis reminds me very much of Ayrton in how he performs every time. Under difficult circumstances, on street circuits, quick circuits, in rain and dry, in reading the race, in being fit, in the politics. Lewis is, like Ayrton, complete.”

***

Martin Brundle: Lewis Hamilton one of UK's greatest-ever sportsmen
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -sportsmen

"I'm in awe of his relentless achievements, and I have no doubt he is one of the UK's greatest-ever sportsmen. Furthermore, there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis."

***

Hamilton is 'in a different league' to Schumacher - Jordan
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4723 ... er-jordan/

“Lewis, if he had in his contract the same things [as Schumacher], he would have had to been able to pass [Valtteri] Bottas [to win the race].

For me, that is a flaw factor for Michael. Seven World Championships… how many would he have won if he hadn’t had the influence and support of the other people in the team?

Lewis is already in a different league, in my opinion. He’s done it on his own."


***

Six-times world champion Lewis Hamilton is the best driver I have seen (Herbert)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... schumacher

"From everything I know from the history of F1, from competing and watching racing, from Juan Manuel Fangio through Jimmy Clark and Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher and all the other guys in between, I think Lewis is the best."


***

After a sixth world title, should Lewis Hamilton be considered greater than seven-time winner Michael Schumacher?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... ter-seven/

"At the moment, it is still Michael Schumacher who comes out as the best F1 driver.

Hamilton, though, is the better champion. Schumacher's career comes with too many black marks to be considered "greater" than Hamilton or the best of all time. There have been few better representatives of the sport than Hamilton in the last two decades on and off the track."




Provocative stuff, no doubt. There are a lot of strong and decisive opinions in these articles. As far as I'm concerned, Lewis Hamilton is still active and has many trials and tribulations ahead, but appreciate that it's their job to offer an opinion and not wait for a career to be over and settled.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6977
^^Invade^^

Some very high praise there indeed. I have to agree with you overall that it is much easier to put someone's career in proper perspective after it is over. With that said, the most universally reasonable comment in your post comes (surprisingly) from Martin Brundle, when he says that "there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis." I think Lewis has firmly moved into the elite, best of the best category. From there, different people will have different opinions and weight different aspects of a driver's career differently but Lewis is undeniably among the top-tier of all time drivers in the sport.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1993
Invade wrote:
I expected a very muted response to this thread with not much in the way of opinion nor reflection. Nonetheless, I shall keep us ticking with a few articles found over the WWW.

Lewis Hamilton ‘reminds me very much of Ayrton Senna’, says Gerhard Berger
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -berger-f1

“I have been asked a lot about young drivers coming up, ‘Do you see Senna in them’, and I always say: ‘No, Senna was different, he wasn’t comparable.’ But now Lewis reminds me very much of Ayrton in how he performs every time. Under difficult circumstances, on street circuits, quick circuits, in rain and dry, in reading the race, in being fit, in the politics. Lewis is, like Ayrton, complete.”

***

Martin Brundle: Lewis Hamilton one of UK's greatest-ever sportsmen
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -sportsmen

"I'm in awe of his relentless achievements, and I have no doubt he is one of the UK's greatest-ever sportsmen. Furthermore, there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis."

***

Hamilton is 'in a different league' to Schumacher - Jordan
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4723 ... er-jordan/

“Lewis, if he had in his contract the same things [as Schumacher], he would have had to been able to pass [Valtteri] Bottas [to win the race].

For me, that is a flaw factor for Michael. Seven World Championships… how many would he have won if he hadn’t had the influence and support of the other people in the team?

Lewis is already in a different league, in my opinion. He’s done it on his own."


***

Six-times world champion Lewis Hamilton is the best driver I have seen (Herbert)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... schumacher

"From everything I know from the history of F1, from competing and watching racing, from Juan Manuel Fangio through Jimmy Clark and Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher and all the other guys in between, I think Lewis is the best."


***

After a sixth world title, should Lewis Hamilton be considered greater than seven-time winner Michael Schumacher?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... ter-seven/

"At the moment, it is still Michael Schumacher who comes out as the best F1 driver.

Hamilton, though, is the better champion. Schumacher's career comes with too many black marks to be considered "greater" than Hamilton or the best of all time. There have been few better representatives of the sport than Hamilton in the last two decades on and off the track."




Provocative stuff, no doubt. There are a lot of strong and decisive opinions in these articles. As far as I'm concerned, Lewis Hamilton is still active and has many trials and tribulations ahead, but appreciate that it's their job to offer an opinion and not wait for a career to be over and settled.


F1 indeed is a fickle sport, all you need to do is go back to the end of '12 and '13 and read what this same people said about Vettel also fast forward 5 years and maybe then Max is a 3x champ and watch the he is better than Senna accolades roll out!

Also congrats to Hamilton on his achievements.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3304
Location: UK
Invade wrote:
Martin Brundle: Lewis Hamilton one of UK's greatest-ever sportsmen
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -sportsmen

"I'm in awe of his relentless achievements, and I have no doubt he is one of the UK's greatest-ever sportsmen. Furthermore, there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis."

Not a bad endorsement from someone who apparently has some sort of agenda against Lewis...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:54 pm
Posts: 1069
Rockie wrote:
F1 indeed is a fickle sport, all you need to do is go back to the end of '12 and '13 and read what this same people said about Vettel also fast forward 5 years and maybe then Max is a 3x champ and watch the he is better than Senna accolades roll out!

Also congrats to Hamilton on his achievements.


I don't think a lot of people predicted that Sebastian would struggle to win a championship when he joined Ferrari. he did one thing though, He really showed Kimi up consistently.

Lewis also had an off season with Mclaren, he made consistent mistakes and so did Mclaren on his behalf. Button was best of the rest next to Seb.

But that season really did educate Lewis on "know when to take the risks". Lewis has lost out to a team mate on the championship. He lost out in 2007. 2011 really hurt his ego. Sometimes losing out actually helps you as a driver. Lewis has made a lot less mistakes since that time. In fact, he questioned Max on his collision with a car not racing him which cost him a victory.

Lewis knows that consistency can sometimes play a big part in winning a title. That's why he has won more.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:14 am
Posts: 202
Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire UK
I'm British, but not a Lewis fan (even though I support all the British drivers to a point).

I may not like him a lot of the time (obviously I don't know him so this is based purely on my perception of him as portrayed in the press and on TV etc) - but you cannot ignore the fact that he is one hell of a racing driver and deserves all that he has achieved.

He will, I'm sure, go on to become on paper at least, the greatest of all time.

As sandman has already said, once a driver gets to that level and is one of the "best of the best" it all comes down to personal opinion as to which one of them actually sits at the top of the tree and that's fine, I have no issue with that. But Lewis is right up there with the best of them and will be for generations to come.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33185
Invade wrote:
I expected a very muted response to this thread with not much in the way of opinion nor reflection. Nonetheless, I shall keep us ticking with a few articles found over the WWW.

Lewis Hamilton ‘reminds me very much of Ayrton Senna’, says Gerhard Berger
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -berger-f1

“I have been asked a lot about young drivers coming up, ‘Do you see Senna in them’, and I always say: ‘No, Senna was different, he wasn’t comparable.’ But now Lewis reminds me very much of Ayrton in how he performs every time. Under difficult circumstances, on street circuits, quick circuits, in rain and dry, in reading the race, in being fit, in the politics. Lewis is, like Ayrton, complete.”

***

Martin Brundle: Lewis Hamilton one of UK's greatest-ever sportsmen
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -sportsmen

"I'm in awe of his relentless achievements, and I have no doubt he is one of the UK's greatest-ever sportsmen. Furthermore, there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis."

***

Hamilton is 'in a different league' to Schumacher - Jordan
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4723 ... er-jordan/

“Lewis, if he had in his contract the same things [as Schumacher], he would have had to been able to pass [Valtteri] Bottas [to win the race].

For me, that is a flaw factor for Michael. Seven World Championships… how many would he have won if he hadn’t had the influence and support of the other people in the team?

Lewis is already in a different league, in my opinion. He’s done it on his own."


***

Six-times world champion Lewis Hamilton is the best driver I have seen (Herbert)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... schumacher

"From everything I know from the history of F1, from competing and watching racing, from Juan Manuel Fangio through Jimmy Clark and Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher and all the other guys in between, I think Lewis is the best."


***

After a sixth world title, should Lewis Hamilton be considered greater than seven-time winner Michael Schumacher?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... ter-seven/

"At the moment, it is still Michael Schumacher who comes out as the best F1 driver.

Hamilton, though, is the better champion. Schumacher's career comes with too many black marks to be considered "greater" than Hamilton or the best of all time. There have been few better representatives of the sport than Hamilton in the last two decades on and off the track."




Provocative stuff, no doubt. There are a lot of strong and decisive opinions in these articles. As far as I'm concerned, Lewis Hamilton is still active and has many trials and tribulations ahead, but appreciate that it's their job to offer an opinion and not wait for a career to be over and settled.

It's interesting to see the comparisons with Schumacher and i agree that in a sporting sense Hamilton is the better champion.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33185
sandman1347 wrote:
^^Invade^^

Some very high praise there indeed. I have to agree with you overall that it is much easier to put someone's career in proper perspective after it is over. With that said, the most universally reasonable comment in your post comes (surprisingly) from Martin Brundle, when he says that "there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis." I think Lewis has firmly moved into the elite, best of the best category. From there, different people will have different opinions and weight different aspects of a driver's career differently but Lewis is undeniably among the top-tier of all time drivers in the sport.

Yeah I think anybody would be hard pressed to argue that he hasn't earned that right.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:05 pm
Posts: 2675
Location: Finland
Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton for winning the 2019 World Driving Championship.

_________________
“I'm happy, but there's nothing to jump around about.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33185
Rockie wrote:
Invade wrote:
I expected a very muted response to this thread with not much in the way of opinion nor reflection. Nonetheless, I shall keep us ticking with a few articles found over the WWW.

Lewis Hamilton ‘reminds me very much of Ayrton Senna’, says Gerhard Berger
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -berger-f1

“I have been asked a lot about young drivers coming up, ‘Do you see Senna in them’, and I always say: ‘No, Senna was different, he wasn’t comparable.’ But now Lewis reminds me very much of Ayrton in how he performs every time. Under difficult circumstances, on street circuits, quick circuits, in rain and dry, in reading the race, in being fit, in the politics. Lewis is, like Ayrton, complete.”

***

Martin Brundle: Lewis Hamilton one of UK's greatest-ever sportsmen
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -sportsmen

"I'm in awe of his relentless achievements, and I have no doubt he is one of the UK's greatest-ever sportsmen. Furthermore, there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis."

***

Hamilton is 'in a different league' to Schumacher - Jordan
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4723 ... er-jordan/

“Lewis, if he had in his contract the same things [as Schumacher], he would have had to been able to pass [Valtteri] Bottas [to win the race].

For me, that is a flaw factor for Michael. Seven World Championships… how many would he have won if he hadn’t had the influence and support of the other people in the team?

Lewis is already in a different league, in my opinion. He’s done it on his own."


***

Six-times world champion Lewis Hamilton is the best driver I have seen (Herbert)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... schumacher

"From everything I know from the history of F1, from competing and watching racing, from Juan Manuel Fangio through Jimmy Clark and Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher and all the other guys in between, I think Lewis is the best."


***

After a sixth world title, should Lewis Hamilton be considered greater than seven-time winner Michael Schumacher?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... ter-seven/

"At the moment, it is still Michael Schumacher who comes out as the best F1 driver.

Hamilton, though, is the better champion. Schumacher's career comes with too many black marks to be considered "greater" than Hamilton or the best of all time. There have been few better representatives of the sport than Hamilton in the last two decades on and off the track."




Provocative stuff, no doubt. There are a lot of strong and decisive opinions in these articles. As far as I'm concerned, Lewis Hamilton is still active and has many trials and tribulations ahead, but appreciate that it's their job to offer an opinion and not wait for a career to be over and settled.


F1 indeed is a fickle sport, all you need to do is go back to the end of '12 and '13 and read what this same people said about Vettel also fast forward 5 years and maybe then Max is a 3x champ and watch the he is better than Senna accolades roll out!

Also congrats to Hamilton on his achievements.

True but Hamilton is 34 now and I would say been tested more than Vettel had been aged 26 in respect to teammates, so I would say less likely to see something untoward happen in order to change opinion.

In regards to Verstappen he may well get the same accolades in 10 years time but you've got to earn them first.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6977
Teddy007 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1 indeed is a fickle sport, all you need to do is go back to the end of '12 and '13 and read what this same people said about Vettel also fast forward 5 years and maybe then Max is a 3x champ and watch the he is better than Senna accolades roll out!

Also congrats to Hamilton on his achievements.


I don't think a lot of people predicted that Sebastian would struggle to win a championship when he joined Ferrari. he did one thing though, He really showed Kimi up consistently.

Lewis also had an off season with Mclaren, he made consistent mistakes and so did Mclaren on his behalf. Button was best of the rest next to Seb.

But that season really did educate Lewis on "know when to take the risks". Lewis has lost out to a team mate on the championship. He lost out in 2007. 2011 really hurt his ego. Sometimes losing out actually helps you as a driver. Lewis has made a lot less mistakes since that time. In fact, he questioned Max on his collision with a car not racing him which cost him a victory.

Lewis knows that consistency can sometimes play a big part in winning a title. That's why he has won more.

I think some people like to mis-characterize 2011 now that enough time has elapsed for memories to become cloudy. Lewis lost out to Jenson in much the same way that Max is losing out to Albon right now. At no point did Jenson look faster or to be the better driver. Lewis was just in way too many incidents in the second half of the season (when the title had already been decided). I do agree that having such a sloppy season taught him a lesson about the importance of consistency and avoiding incidents but it's really nothing to do with Jenson.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:38 pm
Posts: 2247
Location: Miami, Florida
Not to mention the personal woes Lewis was enduring. Breaking up with the love of your life is an extremely difficult thing to go through and because you're an elite sportsman/athlete/professional doesn't mean you are somehow different in that regard and can turn everything off and put the visor down and be 100% focused. On the contrary, in that season Lewis was at times concentrated just enough to finish races without doing too poorly, but it was apparent he lacked what has made him so good throughout his entire career, which was consistency. If you look at every season bar 2011 Lewis' consistency is incredible, but in 2011 it wasn't there. He'd string together 2, maybe 3 races where he did well, but then he'd be off for a couple of races and randomly make uncharacteristic mistakes.

_________________
HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16306
sandman1347 wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1 indeed is a fickle sport, all you need to do is go back to the end of '12 and '13 and read what this same people said about Vettel also fast forward 5 years and maybe then Max is a 3x champ and watch the he is better than Senna accolades roll out!

Also congrats to Hamilton on his achievements.


I don't think a lot of people predicted that Sebastian would struggle to win a championship when he joined Ferrari. he did one thing though, He really showed Kimi up consistently.

Lewis also had an off season with Mclaren, he made consistent mistakes and so did Mclaren on his behalf. Button was best of the rest next to Seb.

But that season really did educate Lewis on "know when to take the risks". Lewis has lost out to a team mate on the championship. He lost out in 2007. 2011 really hurt his ego. Sometimes losing out actually helps you as a driver. Lewis has made a lot less mistakes since that time. In fact, he questioned Max on his collision with a car not racing him which cost him a victory.

Lewis knows that consistency can sometimes play a big part in winning a title. That's why he has won more.

I think some people like to mis-characterize 2011 now that enough time has elapsed for memories to become cloudy. Lewis lost out to Jenson in much the same way that Max is losing out to Albon right now. At no point did Jenson look faster or to be the better driver. Lewis was just in way too many incidents in the second half of the season (when the title had already been decided). I do agree that having such a sloppy season taught him a lesson about the importance of consistency and avoiding incidents but it's really nothing to do with Jenson.


2011 was the best thing that could have happened to Lewis Hamilton at that point of his career.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6977
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1 indeed is a fickle sport, all you need to do is go back to the end of '12 and '13 and read what this same people said about Vettel also fast forward 5 years and maybe then Max is a 3x champ and watch the he is better than Senna accolades roll out!

Also congrats to Hamilton on his achievements.


I don't think a lot of people predicted that Sebastian would struggle to win a championship when he joined Ferrari. he did one thing though, He really showed Kimi up consistently.

Lewis also had an off season with Mclaren, he made consistent mistakes and so did Mclaren on his behalf. Button was best of the rest next to Seb.

But that season really did educate Lewis on "know when to take the risks". Lewis has lost out to a team mate on the championship. He lost out in 2007. 2011 really hurt his ego. Sometimes losing out actually helps you as a driver. Lewis has made a lot less mistakes since that time. In fact, he questioned Max on his collision with a car not racing him which cost him a victory.

Lewis knows that consistency can sometimes play a big part in winning a title. That's why he has won more.

I think some people like to mis-characterize 2011 now that enough time has elapsed for memories to become cloudy. Lewis lost out to Jenson in much the same way that Max is losing out to Albon right now. At no point did Jenson look faster or to be the better driver. Lewis was just in way too many incidents in the second half of the season (when the title had already been decided). I do agree that having such a sloppy season taught him a lesson about the importance of consistency and avoiding incidents but it's really nothing to do with Jenson.


2011 was the best thing that could have happened to Lewis Hamilton at that point of his career.

I agree in a lot of ways. In my opinion one of the most meaningful differences between Hamilton and Vettel is the way that they respond to low points. It's clear that Hamilton is able to evolve when it becomes clear that there is some area he can improve on. If we take the parallel of 2014 from Sebastian, I don't think we saw any meaningful change to his overall game after that point.

In fact, if you were to list Hamilton's strengths and weaknesses from 10 years ago as opposed to today; you would see certain things that used to be weaknesses (ie: tire management, risk-reward/strategic thinking) now firmly in the strengths category. I just don't see that same kind of evolution from Vettel for example. In fact I struggle to think of any racing driver who has been able to self-improve to the extent that Hamilton has (particularly considering that he started out at such a high level).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 4:05 am
Posts: 365
Standout Drives:

Melbourne 07' - Great way for Lewis to announce himself - turn 1 around the outside of Fernando and a well deserved podium in his first race. At the time I thought F1 would be boring with the retirement of Michael but Lewis re-energized my interest for F1 in one race.

Silverstone 08' - Masterclass and lapping 2,3 seconds faster than everyone else. Incredible result.

Hockenheim 08' - Due to a botched strategy Lewis found himself in 4th or 5th after leading much of the race. Some great on-track overtakes saw him win the race.

Germany 11' - Arguably his worst season - but this was a great race scrapping with Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso to take the win.

Bahrain 14' - Nico was on the faster tyre but Lewis was just determined to win the race. Great battle.

Suzuka 14' - A sad race for all but I remember the overtake on Nico on the outside of turn 1 was sublime.

Belgium 17' - A race Seb really should have won, but some great defending up the Kemmel straight by Lewis.

He's had plenty more memorable drives that I'm probably forgetting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16306
shay550 wrote:
Standout Drives:

Melbourne 07' - Great way for Lewis to announce himself - turn 1 around the outside of Fernando and a well deserved podium in his first race. At the time I thought F1 would be boring with the retirement of Michael but Lewis re-energized my interest for F1 in one race.

Silverstone 08' - Masterclass and lapping 2,3 seconds faster than everyone else. Incredible result.

Hockenheim 08' - Due to a botched strategy Lewis found himself in 4th or 5th after leading much of the race. Some great on-track overtakes saw him win the race.

Germany 11' - Arguably his worst season - but this was a great race scrapping with Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso to take the win.

Bahrain 14' - Nico was on the faster tyre but Lewis was just determined to win the race. Great battle.

Suzuka 14' - A sad race for all but I remember the overtake on Nico on the outside of turn 1 was sublime.

Belgium 17' - A race Seb really should have won, but some great defending up the Kemmel straight by Lewis.

He's had plenty more memorable drives that I'm probably forgetting.


I agree with all of those and would add USA 2012.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6977
shay550 wrote:
Standout Drives:

Melbourne 07' - Great way for Lewis to announce himself - turn 1 around the outside of Fernando and a well deserved podium in his first race. At the time I thought F1 would be boring with the retirement of Michael but Lewis re-energized my interest for F1 in one race.

Silverstone 08' - Masterclass and lapping 2,3 seconds faster than everyone else. Incredible result.

Hockenheim 08' - Due to a botched strategy Lewis found himself in 4th or 5th after leading much of the race. Some great on-track overtakes saw him win the race.

Germany 11' - Arguably his worst season - but this was a great race scrapping with Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso to take the win.

Bahrain 14' - Nico was on the faster tyre but Lewis was just determined to win the race. Great battle.

Suzuka 14' - A sad race for all but I remember the overtake on Nico on the outside of turn 1 was sublime.

Belgium 17' - A race Seb really should have won, but some great defending up the Kemmel straight by Lewis.

He's had plenty more memorable drives that I'm probably forgetting.

Japan 07' Really left Alonso for dead in the wet.
Italy 08' If not for fuel strategy and the timing of the rain this would have been an amazing win
Hungary 09' A great win in a season that looked hopeless at the beginning.
Brazil 09' Charging from the back to the podium in maybe the 4th best car
Canada 10' One of the most exciting races in recent history
China 10' Overtaking masterclass pre-DRS
Germany 18' 14th to 1st and the turning point in the championship
Italy 18' About as good as it gets


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 4:05 am
Posts: 365
If not for Trulli-gate Melbourne 09' was a sublime drive too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 1353
Some great drives mentioned above. Does someone fancy ranking all of his 83 wins? :]

shay550 wrote:
If not for Trulli-gate Melbourne 09' was a sublime drive too.


I think Hamilton's 2009 goes a bit under the radar, perhaps unsurprisingly for someone who is a six time champion, but it was a great season in a car that started off hopeless and still wasn't close to being the best in the second half.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 1353
What about his standout pole positions? A few that immediately spring to mind but I sense I'm missing some obvious one's...

Japan 2007
Korea 2011
Italy 2017
Australia 2018
Singapore 2018


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 2661
JN23 wrote:
What about his standout pole positions? A few that immediately spring to mind but I sense I'm missing some obvious one's...

Japan 2007
Korea 2011
Italy 2017
Australia 2018
Singapore 2018


Canada 2010 and Singapore 2012 I would add

As for races, for me 2008 Silverstone is one of the greatest drives of all time. Also I really enjoyed nurburgring 2011, that was a good race (wouldn't say it's one of his greats though)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:02 am
Posts: 2203
Location: Far side of Koozebane
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
I expected a very muted response to this thread with not much in the way of opinion nor reflection. Nonetheless, I shall keep us ticking with a few articles found over the WWW.

Lewis Hamilton ‘reminds me very much of Ayrton Senna’, says Gerhard Berger
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -berger-f1

“I have been asked a lot about young drivers coming up, ‘Do you see Senna in them’, and I always say: ‘No, Senna was different, he wasn’t comparable.’ But now Lewis reminds me very much of Ayrton in how he performs every time. Under difficult circumstances, on street circuits, quick circuits, in rain and dry, in reading the race, in being fit, in the politics. Lewis is, like Ayrton, complete.”

***

Martin Brundle: Lewis Hamilton one of UK's greatest-ever sportsmen
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -sportsmen

"I'm in awe of his relentless achievements, and I have no doubt he is one of the UK's greatest-ever sportsmen. Furthermore, there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis."

***

Hamilton is 'in a different league' to Schumacher - Jordan
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4723 ... er-jordan/

“Lewis, if he had in his contract the same things [as Schumacher], he would have had to been able to pass [Valtteri] Bottas [to win the race].

For me, that is a flaw factor for Michael. Seven World Championships… how many would he have won if he hadn’t had the influence and support of the other people in the team?

Lewis is already in a different league, in my opinion. He’s done it on his own."


***

Six-times world champion Lewis Hamilton is the best driver I have seen (Herbert)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... schumacher

"From everything I know from the history of F1, from competing and watching racing, from Juan Manuel Fangio through Jimmy Clark and Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher and all the other guys in between, I think Lewis is the best."


***

After a sixth world title, should Lewis Hamilton be considered greater than seven-time winner Michael Schumacher?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... ter-seven/

"At the moment, it is still Michael Schumacher who comes out as the best F1 driver.

Hamilton, though, is the better champion. Schumacher's career comes with too many black marks to be considered "greater" than Hamilton or the best of all time. There have been few better representatives of the sport than Hamilton in the last two decades on and off the track."




Provocative stuff, no doubt. There are a lot of strong and decisive opinions in these articles. As far as I'm concerned, Lewis Hamilton is still active and has many trials and tribulations ahead, but appreciate that it's their job to offer an opinion and not wait for a career to be over and settled.

It's interesting to see the comparisons with Schumacher and i agree that in a sporting sense Hamilton is the better champion.


Yeah concur though I will say Schumacher seemed to be the more, I don't the term, maybe cold, maybe driven, maybe focused, of the two.

I can remember that Hamilton would have his off days where he really just didn't seem to have his mind where it should be. He'd be relatively slow & complaining about the car. Maybe this was during a bad period in his personal life but I can't recall Schumacher having a single race like that.

For example, I can't envisage Hamilton being able to do what the Schumacher's did at Imola in 2003. While that's probably an extreme example which probably says more for the Schumachers than anything against Hamilton, I can never recall the likes of Senna, Prost or Schumacher allowing their private lives affect their driving the way it's affected Hamilton's in the past.

Having said that, for mine i'd probably have to now rate Hamilton above Schumacher on the best i've seen ladder. Definitely still behind Senna & slightly behind Prost.

_________________
Races since last non RB, Merc, Ferrari winner (After USA- 19) - 137 & counting.( Last win, Lotus, 17/3/13)

Non RB, Merc, Ferrari podiums won in Hybrid era - 357 trophies available, 24 won

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33185
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1 indeed is a fickle sport, all you need to do is go back to the end of '12 and '13 and read what this same people said about Vettel also fast forward 5 years and maybe then Max is a 3x champ and watch the he is better than Senna accolades roll out!

Also congrats to Hamilton on his achievements.


I don't think a lot of people predicted that Sebastian would struggle to win a championship when he joined Ferrari. he did one thing though, He really showed Kimi up consistently.

Lewis also had an off season with Mclaren, he made consistent mistakes and so did Mclaren on his behalf. Button was best of the rest next to Seb.

But that season really did educate Lewis on "know when to take the risks". Lewis has lost out to a team mate on the championship. He lost out in 2007. 2011 really hurt his ego. Sometimes losing out actually helps you as a driver. Lewis has made a lot less mistakes since that time. In fact, he questioned Max on his collision with a car not racing him which cost him a victory.

Lewis knows that consistency can sometimes play a big part in winning a title. That's why he has won more.

I think some people like to mis-characterize 2011 now that enough time has elapsed for memories to become cloudy. Lewis lost out to Jenson in much the same way that Max is losing out to Albon right now. At no point did Jenson look faster or to be the better driver. Lewis was just in way too many incidents in the second half of the season (when the title had already been decided). I do agree that having such a sloppy season taught him a lesson about the importance of consistency and avoiding incidents but it's really nothing to do with Jenson.


2011 was the best thing that could have happened to Lewis Hamilton at that point of his career.

Quickly followed by 2012, 2011 was the failings of himself, 2012 the failings of his team which lead him to Mercedes.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33185
shay550 wrote:
If not for Trulli-gate Melbourne 09' was a sublime drive too.

Yeah a podium with a back of the grid car, poor decision making on the pit wall.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33185
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
I expected a very muted response to this thread with not much in the way of opinion nor reflection. Nonetheless, I shall keep us ticking with a few articles found over the WWW.

Lewis Hamilton ‘reminds me very much of Ayrton Senna’, says Gerhard Berger
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -berger-f1

“I have been asked a lot about young drivers coming up, ‘Do you see Senna in them’, and I always say: ‘No, Senna was different, he wasn’t comparable.’ But now Lewis reminds me very much of Ayrton in how he performs every time. Under difficult circumstances, on street circuits, quick circuits, in rain and dry, in reading the race, in being fit, in the politics. Lewis is, like Ayrton, complete.”

***

Martin Brundle: Lewis Hamilton one of UK's greatest-ever sportsmen
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -sportsmen

"I'm in awe of his relentless achievements, and I have no doubt he is one of the UK's greatest-ever sportsmen. Furthermore, there can be no realistic debate about 'greatest racing drivers of all time' without including Lewis."

***

Hamilton is 'in a different league' to Schumacher - Jordan
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4723 ... er-jordan/

“Lewis, if he had in his contract the same things [as Schumacher], he would have had to been able to pass [Valtteri] Bottas [to win the race].

For me, that is a flaw factor for Michael. Seven World Championships… how many would he have won if he hadn’t had the influence and support of the other people in the team?

Lewis is already in a different league, in my opinion. He’s done it on his own."


***

Six-times world champion Lewis Hamilton is the best driver I have seen (Herbert)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... schumacher

"From everything I know from the history of F1, from competing and watching racing, from Juan Manuel Fangio through Jimmy Clark and Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher and all the other guys in between, I think Lewis is the best."


***

After a sixth world title, should Lewis Hamilton be considered greater than seven-time winner Michael Schumacher?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... ter-seven/

"At the moment, it is still Michael Schumacher who comes out as the best F1 driver.

Hamilton, though, is the better champion. Schumacher's career comes with too many black marks to be considered "greater" than Hamilton or the best of all time. There have been few better representatives of the sport than Hamilton in the last two decades on and off the track."




Provocative stuff, no doubt. There are a lot of strong and decisive opinions in these articles. As far as I'm concerned, Lewis Hamilton is still active and has many trials and tribulations ahead, but appreciate that it's their job to offer an opinion and not wait for a career to be over and settled.

It's interesting to see the comparisons with Schumacher and i agree that in a sporting sense Hamilton is the better champion.


Yeah concur though I will say Schumacher seemed to be the more, I don't the term, maybe cold, maybe driven, maybe focused, of the two.

I can remember that Hamilton would have his off days where he really just didn't seem to have his mind where it should be. He'd be relatively slow & complaining about the car. Maybe this was during a bad period in his personal life but I can't recall Schumacher having a single race like that.

For example, I can't envisage Hamilton being able to do what the Schumacher's did at Imola in 2003. While that's probably an extreme example which probably says more for the Schumachers than anything against Hamilton, I can never recall the likes of Senna, Prost or Schumacher allowing their private lives affect their driving the way it's affected Hamilton's in the past.

Having said that, for mine i'd probably have to now rate Hamilton above Schumacher on the best i've seen ladder. Definitely still behind Senna & slightly behind Prost.

Yeah you couldn't get much more focused than Schumacher but it was to the point were he was hardly human and perhaps explains some of the on track decisions that he made, whereas Hamilton tends to wear his heart more on his sleeve and I would say is a more compassionate driver which for some might be seen as a weakness?

All drivers have strengths and weaknesses and for my part I'm not looking to say one driver was better than the other.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:46 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6753
Location: Nebraska, USA
Nevermind...I misread your post, poker

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9948
Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton for winning the 2019 World Driving Championship.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7787
Monumental achievement. Congratulations are in order of course, we are indeed watching history being made in front of us and this driver is a head (maybe shoulders too!) above all his peers.

The biggest tribute that I can personally give to Lewis is that he truly is in the all time, top 5 elite. This is not something that I would easily say for someone who is still racing, someone who hasn't finished his career. And of course the 6th title was not needed to confirm this, but it served as a good opportunity to state this.

So well done Lewis and keep up the good work!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2550
Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton for winning the 2019 World Driving Championship.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:21 pm
Posts: 2661
I feel bad more than anything for the people can't even appreciate the quality he produces on track because they are too salty about him winning. It's like those people that hate Messi because they love Ronaldo.

But yeah it happened with schumi too really, they are judged to another standard because they are on another standard, so it's a compliment to Ham really


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:13 pm
Posts: 414
Grats champion!
Keep on going!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:13 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 599
The discussion regarding Hamilton never being voted DOTD in 2019 (so far) is off topic to this thread and I have moved it to a new thread dedicated to that discussion. Please post any discussions on the matter there:

New thread:
Despite winning the WDC, Hamilton has never been voted DOTD


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Blake, P-F1 Mod and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group