planetf1.com

That's quite a strange conclusion from that race. Leclerc got his race completely compromised by some very erratic driving from Magnussen and then Marcus. Gasly totally outperformed his teammate and was compromised by some woeful Torro Rosso strategy calls

With Magnussen getting let off today can we finalise close the book on the Verstappen gets special treatment argument?

It was a mistake to try and pass him there. Vettel has had a few of these incidents where he blames the other driver for not leaving him space despite them clearly leaving him space. It was desperate and wild from Seb. He threw away a decent chance of second place there I reckon.

Not at all. Vettel indeed kept the inner line, Max turned into him.

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The end is near

Vettel was never getting past Max there, and given that Max was sitting on a 5 second penalty at that point in time, it was a strange decision to get so reckless so early on. I guess desperation has long since set in at that point, certainly seemed like Vettel's head has gone this weekend. Ferrari managing to manouvre Kimi behind Ricciardo at the stops took some doing too, really, really bad weekend for Ferrari... feels like it'll be a long road back for them as a team after this.

Magnussen also needs a long hard look at himself, quite how he got away with what he did to Leclerc is beyond me.

Not a great race for the TR boys, bad strategy did for them at the pit stops. RPFI looking like they are going to finish strongly too.

As for the title, it's done, and it's looking that way in the WCC too. Job well done for Mercedes, job well done for Hamilton too.

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Nonsense and actually quite a scandalous allegation.. It was far too tight a line to try and overtake there. Verstappen had to make the corner and Vettel never at any point had any part of his car in front of Max's.

It's not just there. Kimi go a penalty at Francorchamps last year, in similar circumstances. It's silly to halt racing when yellows are more than sufficient, provided you penalize drivers who don't respect them every time. But apparently F1 doesn't have the courage to enforce its own rules all of the time.

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I didn't watch the race live so didn't come on here to avoid spoilers, but I'm surprised not more was made of Verstappen's actions and penalty today. He caused a collision by driving unsafely, coupled with missing the chicane, and effectively ruined another driver's race, but only got a 5s penalty. Which wasn't really a penalty at all because he'd compromised Kimi's car in the process. I don't understand why he seems to get away with this stuff all the time

I think scandalous allegation is a bit excessive. I also think Max could and should have left a bit more room. A couple of races ago i recall Hamilton praising Kimi for being fair in racing hard while still leaving enough space so both could race safely. That's what Max should have done here but it seems he doesn't agree with that principle

I was just thinking I would like Tom Kristensen to answer that question.

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https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

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What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.

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The end is near

His attitude is also preventing him from accepting his mistake. Hulk made the same mistake precisely & when Checo was overtaking him in the same way as Raikkonen was trying to do, Hulk gave Checo space by not coming on the racing line to run Checo off the circuit! Hulk did not hope for Checo to wait!!!!!!!!

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I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

Rather than drag this out into a slanging match, I guess i'll just have to respectfully disagree.

That the stewards saw fit not to issue any punishment despite one of the 2 parties ending up at the back of the field (and punished enough already?) tells me that they might have agreed with me.

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Yes, he says Kimi should have "waited." I think he forgets he's not the only one racing.

Dutch TV is hilariously biased. They think Max did nothing wrong and it was Kimi's mistake

Surely they have to review the K-Mag punishment. That's as close to a black flag manoeuvre as I have seen for a while.

Is there anything wrong in what I said above? Did Vettel turned into Max, or Max into Vettel? Didn't Vettel kept far left? What out of my post does not correspond with the evidence in video?
You don't need to comment on me and my personality, but on the event to make a valid point.

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I don't see that putting an alternative point of view is embarrassing oneself.

Max's time will come. It will be a hard lesson for him because he will go from having nothing to lose to losing everything. It is inevitable that he will reap what he has sown. These drivers will not forget.

There's the fact that Vettel was never making the corner taking that narrow line without using Verstappen as a buffer. The fact is that Max Verstappen doesn't 'turn into Seb', he turns in to make the corner. As DC said, there is not enough deceleration in that corner to make a move realistic.

He did get 1 penalty point.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/penalty-points-for-verstappen-alonso-stroll/

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Feel The Fourth

At the point of impact Seb has a half-car's width on his inside. He then drifts wide and clouts Max, damaging both their cars. So staying far left is gone straight away. You're right control is only lost post impact, but that doesn't dictate where the blame lies.

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Some points of view are so divorced from reality as to be absurd, usually influenced by bias. A belief that the earth is flat is an alternative point of view, it does not make that point of view valid.

No,no.

Haven't you heard? Apparently he's going to grow out of it.

You see he's still learning how to drive and he's only had 77 starts. Give the lad time.

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It also feels that Verstappen doesn't share a good rapport with Vettel when compared to Hamilton. You can feel that cold vibes coming from him towards Vettel. No doubt Vettel was opportunistic in trying to make that move but Verstappen knowing it was Vettel, made sure he closed the door (if any) as he knew the loss at the end would only be of Vettel's!

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Feel The Fourth

Seems like my hope that people would see this and give up on the ridiculous "Verstappen gets special treatment" argument was in vain.

You're clearly a fan of hyperbole, but I would suggest that discussing the merits of an overtaking move isn't in the same league as trying to claim the earth is flat.

I think I mentioned already that i've no idea how that got overlooked, and Magnussen has got form for moving late as well. They really need to stamp this out before a car gets seriously airborne, because that is what the endgame for moving about like this is.

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Glad you can see the fun in it. I would just find it very frustrating, the way they are misleading a whole generation of potential race fans, into becoming mere fanboys and -girls. Is there still no expert commentator who actually knows the rules?

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Agreed he turned in to make the corner - Vettel going for a high risk overtake which didn’t pay off and the Stewards appear to think the same

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There is some crossover. All the evidence and experts point to one point of view, while the other is built on far more flaky foundations and leaps of faith.

Alonso clearly cut the chicane & did gain an advantage. Still he moans about the second penalty he got. But then it's ridiculous a harmless excursion by Alonso gets a 5 second penalty whereas a dangerous move by Magnussen goes unnoticed!!!!

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The inner line is 'NOT' the racing line.

As much as I think it is absurd to blame Max for the Vettel coming together, he clearly should have been received greater punishment for the Raikkonen incident.

That was clumsy and dangerous.You have to be more aware when rejoining the track. That could have been quite a nasty incident.

is anybody truly suprised by vettels race craft. it has been suspect since day one and basically hasnt improved. he is just a faster version of felipe massa.

From Twitter:

Points standings after 17 races of 2017: Hamilton 331, Vettel 265
Points standings after 17 races of 2018: Hamilton 331, Vettel 264

Why would that be important in this case Clarky?

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

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Here's a few different views of Verstappen-Raikkonen incident. It looks quite deliberate, if not disrespectful towards other's safety when viewing from Max's car:

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At the point of impact, either Max locks up his left front tyre, or his left front and Vettel's right front touch. So Vettel is much further alongside than halfway. Edit: it's Vettel's front wing that touches Max's front left tyre.
I wonder what Max said just after the incident; I could understand if he had said he never saw the attack coming, and turned into the corner normally.
But if he didn't claim that, he did indeed turn into a car that was already alongside. Which would make him the one who caused the accident.

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi