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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:35 am 
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Zazu wrote:
I'm at Catalunya and they actually look good trackside.

Interesting! Just to get a clearer picture, did you dislike the way they looked in photos beforehand?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:20 am 
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Yes, was completely opposed

It looks better on some liveries than others. At round 2 no one will comment on the aesthetics because it looks normal very quickly


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:35 pm 
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https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 11/?type=3


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:42 pm 
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This guy on instagram has a great idea for the Halo. Match it to the drivers helmet design. They look cool and make it easier to spot your driver. :thumbup:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfrCoVJFY9H/


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Matching it to the driver's helmet would be useful but i think a lot of people would complain it makes the halo more visible when they want it to be more hidden

Maybe next year when people have got used to it ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:02 am 
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I wonder if Indycar ace the screen development how long it'll be until F1 follow suit?

One advantage Indy has over F1 in using the screen is that Indy cars don't have an airbox above the driver. I'd imagine the installation of a screen on a F1 car would adversely affect air flow into the airbox to a certain degree, thus affecting engine cooling.

Would installation of a screen require a rethink on car design and engine cooling methods? Maybe raising the airbox or getting rid of it altogether?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:47 am 
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Sorry, but I find the comment from Charlie Whiting patronising and completely missing the point, "fans will definitely know who is behind each Halo, they just need to look at the car numbers, helmets and cameras."

Its the drivers I want to see! Might as well have a closed cockpit if we are going to go by colour, shape and numbers!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/whiting-downplays-driver-confusion-with-halo/


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:05 pm 
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I think the Halo and tarmac run off's are safety measures taken that have seriously impact on the quality of the sport. Both should be reversed.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Anti-Halo Rant: I think this has to be the ultimate in anti-fan, anti-entertainment decisions made by the powers that be in F1. Basically, in order to protect against an extremely rare and flukey type of accident, we are going to install a device that accomplishes the following:
1. You know those cool helmet designs that your favorite drivers wear so you can tell them apart? We're going to completely block those so you can't see them!
2. You know those awesome onboard camera shots that fans love to watch? We're going to completely block those too!
3. You know those beautiful cars that the engineers design? We're going to attach a bulbous, hideous accessory right smack dab in the middle of them!

Awesome idea!

Honestly, in the last 40 years can you remember an F1 driver being struck by debrit other than Felipe Massa in 2009? Perhaps this device does improve safety but stopping one accident every few decades isn't worth this. I know that's not the PC point of view but let's be honest; if safety really came first for you, you would not race cars at 200 mph. There has to be a balance and this tips the scales too far IMO.

Rant complete


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:17 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Anti-Halo Rant: I think this has to be the ultimate in anti-fan, anti-entertainment decisions made by the powers that be in F1. Basically, in order to protect against an extremely rare and flukey type of accident, we are going to install a device that accomplishes the following:
1. You know those cool helmet designs that your favorite drivers wear so you can tell them apart? We're going to completely block those so you can't see them!
2. You know those awesome onboard camera shots that fans love to watch? We're going to completely block those too!
3. You know those beautiful cars that the engineers design? We're going to attach a bulbous, hideous accessory right smack dab in the middle of them!

Awesome idea!

Honestly, in the last 40 years can you remember an F1 driver being struck by debrit other than Felipe Massa in 2009? Perhaps this device does improve safety but stopping one accident every few decades isn't worth this. I know that's not the PC point of view but let's be honest; if safety really came first for you, you would not race cars at 200 mph. There has to be a balance and this tips the scales too far IMO.

Rant complete


What I don't understand is why we had a raft of regs to make cars look better a few years ago? The thinking is so unjoined up. It's so F1.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:23 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Anti-Halo Rant: I think this has to be the ultimate in anti-fan, anti-entertainment decisions made by the powers that be in F1. Basically, in order to protect against an extremely rare and flukey type of accident, we are going to install a device that accomplishes the following:
1. You know those cool helmet designs that your favorite drivers wear so you can tell them apart? We're going to completely block those so you can't see them!
2. You know those awesome onboard camera shots that fans love to watch? We're going to completely block those too!
3. You know those beautiful cars that the engineers design? We're going to attach a bulbous, hideous accessory right smack dab in the middle of them!

Awesome idea!

Honestly, in the last 40 years can you remember an F1 driver being struck by debrit other than Felipe Massa in 2009? Perhaps this device does improve safety but stopping one accident every few decades isn't worth this. I know that's not the PC point of view but let's be honest; if safety really came first for you, you would not race cars at 200 mph. There has to be a balance and this tips the scales too far IMO.

Rant complete


Tom Pryce, fatal accident Kyalami 1977.
Okay, that is 41 years ...

Markus Höttinger, was it 1981?
But that was in F2.

I do think, the fatal accident of Henry Surtees was more relevant here than Massa's.

But, yes, I agree with your rant.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:10 am 
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Watching the drivers twist and turn to get out of the Halo cockpits makes me wonder what will happen if they have to extract a driver under medical conditions.
It looks like it could be complicated, will they need to cut the Halo off I wonder?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:52 pm 
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G926 wrote:
Watching the drivers twist and turn to get out of the Halo cockpits makes me wonder what will happen if they have to extract a driver under medical conditions.
It looks like it could be complicated, will they need to cut the Halo off I wonder?


Looking at the halo installations, I am wondering if there are attachment bolts or pins that keep the halo in place, in sockets perhaps. The halos might not be all that hard to remove.

The halo is designed to take an impact from the top, front or side. Would not have to be that strong against forces trying to lift them up off the chasis.

Just my conjecture.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Jules Bianchi's death is what resulted in FIA introducing the Halo this season.

Charles Lecrec nearly got beheaded today and the halo saved him from that.

Jules was not just a close friend of Charles but also a mentor to him. They were both thought of as exceptional upcoming Ferrari talents who were touted to replace Kimi in the Ferrari.

Weird...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Ok, Jules Gandhi's death did not result in the halo. They halo would've done nothing to help him and today the halo did not help Leclerc. Alonso's car was going over the top of him. Look at where the marks are on the halo. The halo is going to get hit sometimes because it's been careful placed in a position where it is likely to get hit. That's the point of it. The drivers head is in a position where it's least likely to get hit as it's protected by the angle of the airbox to the cockpit.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:22 pm 
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all the off season hysteronics that the halo "is the end of f1" have fallen flat. sure, when the car is sitting still, at some angles, it looks funny. on the track, not really something noticed that often


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Did it save Leclerc today? If I recall it was designed to deflect a flying tyre, not an entire flying car. There's no definitive evidence that it made any difference, all we can see is that Alonso's car made some level of contact with it as it flew by.

I stand by my previous points. I'm not opposed to greater head protection but there are more elegant solutions out there. Ironically given the arguments that have arisen about its aesthetics, I believe that by selecting the halo concept the FIA did go for form over function because it allows the sport to cling to the idea of still being an open cockpit formula.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:33 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:50 pm 
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It's difficult to say whether or not the Halo helped protect Leclerc today or not, but as ugly as it is, it's better to have the added protection than not.
Still, looking at all the replays, it appears that Alonso's car would have sailed past Leclerc's head without making contact anyway. But again, better safe than sorry.

Still, I think a canopy is the superior option in every regard and the style of car is Open-Wheeled not open cockpit. The open cockpit was merely a carry over from the early days when little to no consideration was given to safety and since the goal is to keep things as light as possible, removing the roof and exposing the driver makes for a MUCH lighter car than having to add an AC unit to keep the drivers from boiling over, or on rainy days to keep the windshield clear and free from fogging up.

A canopy is more in tune with F1 in the way of aero efficiency and though there are clever ways to get ventilation inside the cockpit, when it rains that may lead to moisture making its way in there as well so it would likely be necessary to install an AC unit of some sort to make it a viable option for all conditions.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:01 am 
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Look at it this way.
Alonso was vaulted high enough to clear the T-bar camera of the Sauber yet the marks on the Halo seem to be about mid-cockpit. What that tells us is the Mclaren was on a steep downward trajectory at that point having expended most of its energy going upward first.

Both cars still had forward momentum but it’s hard to say which was bleeding off more of it at the point the one came down on the other. If the Sauber wasn’t slowing as fast then move the point at which the MacLaren makes contact further back because the Halo wouldn’t have intercepted it and you have Leclerc’s head very much in danger.

IMO there was a very good chance that without the Halo Leclerc would’ve ended up with a face full of Mclaren floor today.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:49 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Still, I think a canopy is the superior option in every regard and the style of car is Open-Wheeled not open cockpit. The open cockpit was merely a carry over from the early days when little to no consideration was given to safety and since the goal is to keep things as light as possible, removing the roof and exposing the driver makes for a MUCH lighter car than having to add an AC unit to keep the drivers from boiling over, or on rainy days to keep the windshield clear and free from fogging up.

A canopy is more in tune with F1 in the way of aero efficiency and though there are clever ways to get ventilation inside the cockpit, when it rains that may lead to moisture making its way in there as well so it would likely be necessary to install an AC unit of some sort to make it a viable option for all conditions.

This times a million. I cannot agree more. A canopy would be faster, safer, and it would look sick as hell. We've all been conditioned by fighter jets to think of anything with a bubble canopy as lethally fast, so I don't see how it would do anything to lessen the impression of a machine on the limit of technology.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:38 am 
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(Leclerc) posted an image of the accident on Twitter and wrote: "Never been a fan of the halo but I have to say that I was very happy to have it over my head today."

Image
Source https://ichef.bbci.co.uk

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:43 am 
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Watch how heavy the cars look now when they crash the momentum just keeps pushing them

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:58 am 
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j man wrote:
Did it save Leclerc today? If I recall it was designed to deflect a flying tyre, not an entire flying car. There's no definitive evidence that it made any difference, all we can see is that Alonso's car made some level of contact with it as it flew by.

I stand by my previous points. I'm not opposed to greater head protection but there are more elegant solutions out there. Ironically given the arguments that have arisen about its aesthetics, I believe that by selecting the halo concept the FIA did go for form over function because it allows the sport to cling to the idea of still being an open cockpit formula.


It definitely made difference yesterday. Alonso's car was rotating in the air while landing on the cockpit of the Sauber and it got deflected away thanks to the halo.
Halo is clearly cracked or rather has stress fractures here with such enormous force but it did its job, Like Halo or not, it saved the driver from injury or worse yesterday.

Also halo is not just designed for tyre but take vertical as well as angled loads. It is static load tested along with impact testing.

I would personally prefer full canopy but cant deny the fact that halo played its part in allowing Leclerc to walk away with no injury.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:44 am 
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The real structural component of the Halo is steel. The cracks in these photos are in the cosmetic/aero carbon fiber wrapping.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:58 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
j man wrote:
Did it save Leclerc today? If I recall it was designed to deflect a flying tyre, not an entire flying car. There's no definitive evidence that it made any difference, all we can see is that Alonso's car made some level of contact with it as it flew by.

I stand by my previous points. I'm not opposed to greater head protection but there are more elegant solutions out there. Ironically given the arguments that have arisen about its aesthetics, I believe that by selecting the halo concept the FIA did go for form over function because it allows the sport to cling to the idea of still being an open cockpit formula.


It definitely made difference yesterday. Alonso's car was rotating in the air while landing on the cockpit of the Sauber and it got deflected away thanks to the halo.
Halo is clearly cracked or rather has stress fractures here with such enormous force but it did its job, Like Halo or not, it saved the driver from injury or worse yesterday.

Also halo is not just designed for tyre but take vertical as well as angled loads. It is static load tested along with impact testing.

I would personally prefer full canopy but cant deny the fact that halo played its part in allowing Leclerc to walk away with no injury.

Well Charlie has said it's too early to know whether the Halo made any difference to the outcome for LeClerc today, so I'd have to say it's probably too early to know.
Your (and some others) opinion is it looks like it made a difference, mine (and some others) are that it looks like it didn't; fact either way it definitely is not...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:02 am 
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This video shows Alonso's right front tyre heading directly for LeClerc's head and then being bounced away by the Halo. I don't think you could get a clearer demonstration of its real life utility.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1034009643331330049

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:14 am 
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mas wrote:
This video shows Alonso's right front tyre heading directly for LeClerc's head and then being bounced away by the Halo. I don't think you could get a clearer demonstration of its real life utility.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1034009643331330049

But it doesn't show whether this would have happened anyway by hitting another part of the car.... (edit: meaning if the halo didn't exist)
Unless actual studies are done by people with the correct knowledge and computer simulations then it's all about opinion on what may have been, which doesn't give us useful information to add to the discussion.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:37 am 
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mas wrote:
This video shows Alonso's right front tyre heading directly for LeClerc's head and then being bounced away by the Halo. I don't think you could get a clearer demonstration of its real life utility.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1034009643331330049


I don't get the relevance of comments like this. Those of us that argued against it never argued that it would be impossible for it ever to be useful.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mas wrote:
This video shows Alonso's right front tyre heading directly for LeClerc's head and then being bounced away by the Halo. I don't think you could get a clearer demonstration of its real life utility.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1034009643331330049


I don't get the relevance of comments like this. Those of us that argued against it never argued that it would be impossible for it ever to be useful.

There are people in this thread and others elsewhere that people are saying that they don't think the halo had an affect on the outcome of yesterday's incident.

This video shows a preponderance of evidence that indeed it did so comments like the one you responded are needed.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:27 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mas wrote:
This video shows Alonso's right front tyre heading directly for LeClerc's head and then being bounced away by the Halo. I don't think you could get a clearer demonstration of its real life utility.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1034009643331330049


I don't get the relevance of comments like this. Those of us that argued against it never argued that it would be impossible for it ever to be useful.

There are people in this thread and others elsewhere that people are saying that they don't think the halo had an affect on the outcome of yesterday's incident.

This video shows a preponderance of evidence that indeed it did so comments like the one you responded are needed.

No, it shows no such thing. All it shows is that the wheel hit halo, without stimulating the impact sans halo we do not know if it would have hit him or not. Charlie whiting says it's too early to say, how can people on this forum have definitive answers if the professionals don't have them?
Currently it is opinion either way, mine in this instance is that he'd have been ok without the halo in this instance. Yes it may do good in other accidents, yes it did deflect an impact in this case, but I think it would have missed his helmet in any case due to the other structures of the cat protecting him.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:05 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mas wrote:
This video shows Alonso's right front tyre heading directly for LeClerc's head and then being bounced away by the Halo. I don't think you could get a clearer demonstration of its real life utility.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1034009643331330049


I don't get the relevance of comments like this. Those of us that argued against it never argued that it would be impossible for it ever to be useful.

There are people in this thread and others elsewhere that people are saying that they don't think the halo had an affect on the outcome of yesterday's incident.

This video shows a preponderance of evidence that indeed it did so comments like the one you responded are needed.


I don't think it shows that tbh. There's a reason why the halo got hit in it's first 12 races whilst no driver has had another car hit them since Brundle in 1994. It's positioned where it is for a reason, where it is mostly likely to get in the way. Whereas the driver's head it's carefully positioned where it's least likely to get in the way.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:07 pm 
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I really don't see why people object to a safety feature on visual aesthetic grounds.

We now have two accidents (one in F2 and one in F1) that demonstrated the efficacy of the halo. We also still have two drivers with us who might well have died.

Tadasuke Makino at the Spanish Gran Prix and Charles Leclerc this last weekend.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:59 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mas wrote:
This video shows Alonso's right front tyre heading directly for LeClerc's head and then being bounced away by the Halo. I don't think you could get a clearer demonstration of its real life utility.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1034009643331330049


I don't get the relevance of comments like this. Those of us that argued against it never argued that it would be impossible for it ever to be useful.

There are people in this thread and others elsewhere that people are saying that they don't think the halo had an affect on the outcome of yesterday's incident.

This video shows a preponderance of evidence that indeed it did so comments like the one you responded are needed.

No, it shows no such thing. All it shows is that the wheel hit halo, without stimulating the impact sans halo we do not know if it would have hit him or not. Charlie whiting says it's too early to say, how can people on this forum have definitive answers if the professionals don't have them?
Currently it is opinion either way, mine in this instance is that he'd have been ok without the halo in this instance. Yes it may do good in other accidents, yes it did deflect an impact in this case, but I think it would have missed his helmet in any case due to the other structures of the cat protecting him.

Yes what I stated is my opinion, just as what you stated is your opinion. (not that you said otherwise) Here's how my evaluation of the incident evolved and how I came to mine.

Right after it happened, and I'd only seen it from behind, I thought that Alonso had been vaulted clear over the cockpit of Leclerc's car and the Halo had no impact on the result. Then after seeing the view looking back up the start straight at full speed, and having seen the damage to the Halo, I could tell that it might have had an affect but it was hard to tell which car was still carrying more forward momentum and the only reason the Halo was hit was because it was higher than the tub. So at this point I still had no solid opinion.

But then seeing the video showing the front of the cars in slow motion it clear that the Sauber was still moving faster than the McLaren and that the McLaren was coming down at a steeper angle than it appeared at first. These things combined means that had the Halo not been there the contact to Leclerc's car would've been further back than the marks on the Halo which brings that contact closer to Leclerc's head. Now I'm much closer to believing that the Halo did what it was intended to do but was still thinking that it was the edge of Alonso's floor that impacted the Halo.

Then another video appears which seems to have been shot from somewhere up the track after the exit from La Source which shows the crash from the side which clearly shows that the McLaren was spinning in a clockwise manner while in the air rotating the right front wheel of Alonso's car back toward Leclerc's head which was still moving forward. This is when I came to my opinion that the Halo definitely kept Leclerc from being hit in the head.

I'll also add my opinion that even if it's negligible that there would've been head to wheel contact here the value of the device has proven it's worth.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:15 pm 
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We know from the graphics that they put up at times that the cars have accelerometers in them which are most likely 6 axis, even though we only ever see 4 on TV. And, although we never see it on screen, we also know they have GPS chips on board which have a good chance of also including at least a dead reckoning compass.

If they retain all of the data streams for those sensors any crash reconstruction firm could do a very detailed modeling of this crash using the angles, accelerations, and compass bearings. However it seems like if the simulation of this crash using real world inputs didn't show the wheel firmly implanted in Leclerc's head without the Halo there would be some who would rather talk about the margin of error in the reconstruction than the effectiveness of the device.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:58 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:

Wow. That replay shows wheel was likely to hit his head before the deflection from the halo and unlike the wheels that have killed drivers it still had a 700kg F1 car attached to it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Great video. Even if there's a slight chance the wheel might have just passed in front of the helmet, those t=kind of margins are not worth the risk if they can be easily overcome. In this case, the halo shows it's worth.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:05 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:


This video breaks it down very nicely. We also know exactly how Ricciardo had his rear wing damaged.

Initially the Honda chassis clears Leclerc's cockpit area. But contact with Ricciardo initiated a clockwise rotation of Alonso, so that the right front wheel was moving backwards relative to Leclerc. When the wheel made contact with the Halo, it was not moving forward, but backwards and directly towards Leclerc's head.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:06 pm 
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That was a freakish kinematic sequence of events but it really looked the worst case of impact to the driver was about to occur where a ton of metal was about to pivot on his head through the tyre, that could have been another Bianchi for sure. The Halo may not be the ending point of driver head protection but it sure is a very good start.

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