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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:32 am 
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To me it looks like Ocon is still learning and Perez definitely is worried about him. Next year I will not be surprised if Ocon is ahead more often than not. It this does not happen, then we can pretty much say that Perez is the better driver.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:37 am 
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Randine wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Sainz has been rather clumsy on a couple of occasions this year.


I think it's been more than a couple now. He had those 2 incidents in Bahrain and Canada, both of which he was responsible for 2 cars retiring as well as collecting 2 penalty points and a 3 place grid penalty for the next race on both occations. He then now has also had a crash in practice, and another in the race. He's now been resonsible for more retirements than any driver on the grid this year and in my opinion, that is pretty poor if some people consider him to be pretty close to the top drivers. I think Ricciardo and Verstappen are well ahead of him overall. Sainz has good pace, outstanding at times, but overall, very up and down. I just don't think he's good enough yet for a top team. But things may change in time.


Well he is technically in a top team now.
1 of 3 works teams on the grid. Renault pushing to be world champions again in 2-3 years.

Good point there. We'll just have to find out how good the car is. Sainz is very good at times, but makes huge mistakes very nearly as often. Even last year, I thought Sainz made quite a few mistakes, including Mexico when he made a very risky move on Alonso which could have resulted much worse. He still got penalty for this. Then I remember several other races too over his career where he crashed heavily in practice, such as Russia one time. You would think he should learn from practice, but that often hasn't been the case this year. Hopefully he will get better, or Renault may drop him like Red Bull dropped Kvyat. I actually think Kvyat looked about as good in 2015 at Red Bull as Sainz has so far in Toro Rosso this year.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:15 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ocon isn't matching Perez.

Perez is 11/5 up in quali and 10/4 up on race finishes ahead. Performance wise he is close but almost always behind.

I believe Ocon is doing well for a rookie but not so well that peopole would be calling him a stand put driver if he wasn't in a consistently point's scoring car.

And I've never argued that Perez is a huge talent. I do think he is better than Hulkenberg.

He is now. Jeez at the start of the year the guy was still a rookie in a new team where Perez was entering his 4th season. Giving a driver a period of acclimatization is pretty standard.

If we look at Austria onwards points scored is the only area Perez is ahead:
Qualy: 4-4
Races finished ahead: 4-4
Points scored: 38-30

F*ck all in it


It will be interesting to see how things progress next year. :)

Don't forget Ocon wasn't a total rookie. He had half a season already. Doesn't sound like much but it does hold a benefit.


Funnily enough Ocon has been closer to Perez as we've moved onto tracks he's raced on in F1 before. He had a similar acclimatisation period against Werhlein last season before he destroyed him at Brazil.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:23 pm 
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So how does Carlos' stand regarding engine parts?

They are allocated to a driver (so you can't give parts to a team mate I guess), but how does that work when you swap to a new team?

Does he have to make do with what Palmer had left?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:05 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
A big plus for Sainz is that he is a lot further ahead of Kvyat than Ricciardo was.

Not exactly true :)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:08 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
So how does Carlos' stand regarding engine parts?

They are allocated to a driver (so you can't give parts to a team mate I guess), but how does that work when you swap to a new team?

Does he have to make do with what Palmer had left?

Yep

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
So how does Carlos' stand regarding engine parts?

They are allocated to a driver (so you can't give parts to a team mate I guess), but how does that work when you swap to a new team?

Does he have to make do with what Palmer had left?

I think Renault took a penalty with Palmer at Japan to give Sainz a fresh engine.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:48 am 
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And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:53 am 
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Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:48 am 
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Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)
Somebody should tell them Palmer is available. Imagine if he were to have a good race there... They give him a Red Bull before every session, and two before qualifying and Bob's his uncle!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
So how does Carlos' stand regarding engine parts?

They are allocated to a driver (so you can't give parts to a team mate I guess), but how does that work when you swap to a new team?

Does he have to make do with what Palmer had left?

I think Renault took a penalty with Palmer at Japan to give Sainz a fresh engine.


Talk about rubbing salt into the wound !!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:37 pm 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source


Let's get Frijns in there :) (think he had a super licence once so he could get a new one based on the 300km test).

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)

Ugh. God please no. If it's going to be an American let it be one I can root for. Sadly Rossi already ruled out a full time drive for next year so I doubt he'll do a one off with a team he has no prior association with.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:10 pm 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source


Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132366/hartley-favourite-for-toro-rosso-us-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:05 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source


Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132366/hartley-favourite-for-toro-rosso-us-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.


Hartley would be more interesting. Buemi would probably be better.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season? :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Hartley must be pushing 30 now though. A little too old to be fresh into F1, although Hill was 30 I suppose.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:56 pm 
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moby wrote:
Hartley must be pushing 30 now though. A little too old to be fresh into F1, although Hill was 30 I suppose.


27 I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:02 pm 
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mds wrote:
Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season? :)


Toyota 04 I think.

Started the season with Da Matta and Panis, finished with Zonta and Trulli.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:04 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
Hartley must be pushing 30 now though. A little too old to be fresh into F1, although Hill was 30 I suppose.


27 I think.


Thought he was older. Seems to have been around a long time :D

Just looked, you are right 28 next month


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)

I thought that it was because Honda wanted him to see the season out so they could win the title from Toyota?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:35 pm 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Super License points?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:37 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source


Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132366/hartley-favourite-for-toro-rosso-us-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

I would have put Buemi in the car.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:49 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Super License points?


He has them.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:50 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source


Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132366/hartley-favourite-for-toro-rosso-us-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

I would have put Buemi in the car.


People seem to forget that Buemi was inferior to Alguersuari. I think STR know he isn't good enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:50 pm 
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mds wrote:
Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season? :)

I remember 94 had some crazy driver swaps

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:11 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Super License points?


He has them.

Through the WEC?

Whilst junior drivers have to fight and scrap for them.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:13 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source


Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132366/hartley-favourite-for-toro-rosso-us-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

I would have put Buemi in the car.


People seem to forget that Buemi was inferior to Alguersuari. I think STR know he isn't good enough.

He's better than Hartley.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Can anyone who followed the wec closer than me say something about how/where Hartley ranked among the other drivers this season, performance-wise?

I only remember he was not very impressive in FR 3.5. many years ago.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:36 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season? :)


Toyota 04 I think.

Started the season with Da Matta and Panis, finished with Zonta and Trulli.


Yes, but between one race and the next they never changed both drivers :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:37 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
mds wrote:
Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season? :)

I remember 94 had some crazy driver swaps


Very warm :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:26 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Can anyone who followed the wec closer than me say something about how/where Hartley ranked among the other drivers this season, performance-wise?

I only remember he was not very impressive in FR 3.5. many years ago.


I just had to go to his wiki to find his age, there is a little on the end of the page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendon_Hartley


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:26 am 
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mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season? :)


Toyota 04 I think.

Started the season with Da Matta and Panis, finished with Zonta and Trulli.


Yes, but between one race and the next they never changed both drivers :)


Oh I see. Back to the drawing board.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:30 am 
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Must be Lotus 94. Ran so many drivers that season!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:44 am 
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That's it. Portugal (Herbert/Adams) to Jerez (Zanardi/Bernard).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:24 am 
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I'd much rather see Buemi get the drive rather than Hartley. Very curious to see how he'd perform in F1 today, even if it were just a one-off appearance. But neither fit Toro Rosso's purpose in life (to give Red Bull's young drivers a way into F1) which is why I still expect to see Kvyat start 2018 alongside Gasly.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:11 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I'd much rather see Buemi get the drive rather than Hartley. Very curious to see how he'd perform in F1 today, even if it were just a one-off appearance. But neither fit Toro Rosso's purpose in life (to give Red Bull's young drivers a way into F1) which is why I still expect to see Kvyat start 2018 alongside Gasly.


Well, in theory Hartley could fit: he was a Red Bull young driver once, and he still is affiliated (i.e. he still has RB backing). Buemi has been in F1 and has been discarded, so I don't expect him for 2018.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:55 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
Liket wrote:
And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed? ;)


One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source


Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132366/hartley-favourite-for-toro-rosso-us-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

I would have put Buemi in the car.


People seem to forget that Buemi was inferior to Alguersuari. I think STR know he isn't good enough.

That's not how I remember the partnership. Although he was often hit or miss in the races, in qualifying buemi often put his car amongst faster cars whereas alguersuari invariably didn't, he has good raw speed which is why he has been successful after F1 wherever he has gone. Hartley is good too, either will do well.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:04 pm 
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mas wrote:

People seem to forget that Buemi was inferior to Alguersuari. I think STR know he isn't good enough.

That's not how I remember the partnership. Although he was often hit or miss in the races, in qualifying buemi often put his car amongst faster cars whereas alguersuari invariably didn't, he has good raw speed which is why he has been successful after F1 wherever he has gone. Hartley is good too, either will do well.[/quote]

Buemi was better in quali (Although it was Alguersuari that got the best quali results of their final season) but couldn't live with Alguersuari in races. Jaime scored nearly double the points in 2011. I don't remember at the end of 2011 many people rating Buemi the better of the two.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:21 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Buemi was better in quali (Although it was Alguersuari that got the best quali results of their final season) but couldn't live with Alguersuari in races. Jaime scored nearly double the points in 2011. I don't remember at the end of 2011 many people rating Buemi the better of the two.


By the end of 2011 I thought he had potential and he could have had a decent F1 career if given the chance. People often forget how young he was when he came into F1. He's been out of F1 for 6 seasons already and he's still only 27!

To this date he's still the third youngest to start an F1 race and the fifth youngest to score points in F1.

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