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 Post subject: McLaren engines for 2018
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:40 pm 
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So who will be powering McLaren next season?
One of the existing manufacturers, Ferrari, Mercedes or Renault or a new supplier Porsche, Peaugeot or Volkswagen?

Link removed as clickbait.


Last edited by Kev627 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:53 pm 
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What I find amusing is that I think Eddie Jordan who many people dislike could turn out to be right again. Quite a while ago now, he said McLaren would run Mercedes power in 2018. Toto may have denied that instantly but I'm not convinced it isn't true. He also predicted Alonso would be at Renault in 2018 if he stayed in F1 and this was right at the beginning of the year. He very often predicts the future correctly so I believe he could be right with both of these. But if McLaren don't go with Mercedes power, will their car be any good? Do we know that their chassis is very good? In 2014, they had Mercedes power and Williams were miles ahead and they only managed 1 podium. Unless their chassis has improved massively and they go with the Mercedes power, I don't think they will be a top team. But they will certainly be far better than they are now.

I think Sauber should give Honda a go. It will be better than a year old engine. Even if it is more unreliable, it will probably give them an ability so shine at certain tracks which is probably more than they could do with an old engine. So I think they may as well take the risk, especially since there could be a chance that Honda may improve. Not that that is likely, but if it did happen, Sauber will maybe be a midfield team again.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Not true yet at least. That's just Zak extrapolating on what he said at the weekend about Honda's money not necessarily being a net contributor to the extent people assume. And nor would it influence his decision.

But no decision has actually been made or at least announced yet. That writer is a touch premature.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:18 pm 
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This is a massively misleading title and article. The split hasn't been confirmed yet, and might not happen.

I think the link should be removed personally. Its just clickbait.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:36 pm 
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I would bet my house that it won't be a new supplier, once bitten, twice shy. It will be a Mercedes, the old partnership is back on and aligning for a 36 year old Hamilton to win his last title in a Mclaren-Mercedes :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:20 am 
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lamo wrote:
I would bet my house that it won't be a new supplier, once bitten, twice shy. It will be a Mercedes, the old partnership is back on and aligning for a 36 year old Hamilton to win his last title in a Mclaren-Mercedes :lol:

The question is, if Hamilton wins 2 more titles with Mclaren, will Ron be able to honor his promise about giving him the GTR LM? Or have they changed the locks on him lol?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:04 am 
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Everyone expecting a Merc engine, but if you recall, they were not on the best of terms when they split, why should they be now? Merc more or less only bought the team they have because Mclaren would not sell out to them. The last season was not that good for Mclaren either.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:24 am 
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moby wrote:
The last season was not that good for Mclaren either.


That was a chassis issue mainly due to front suspension, wasn't it? Most seem to say the McLaren has a pretty good chassis now, so should be much further up with a good engine it seems.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:48 am 
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Lord Crc wrote:
moby wrote:
The last season was not that good for Mclaren either.


That was a chassis issue mainly due to front suspension, wasn't it? Most seem to say the McLaren has a pretty good chassis now, so should be much further up with a good engine it seems.


Vandoorne had the speed to put it about seventh (iirc) in Monaco qualifying. That does indicate the chassis is not bad at all.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:44 am 
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moby wrote:
Everyone expecting a Merc engine, but if you recall, they were not on the best of terms when they split, why should they be now? Merc more or less only bought the team they have because Mclaren would not sell out to them. The last season was not that good for Mclaren either.

Different management might help

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:08 am 
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mcdo wrote:
moby wrote:
Everyone expecting a Merc engine, but if you recall, they were not on the best of terms when they split, why should they be now? Merc more or less only bought the team they have because Mclaren would not sell out to them. The last season was not that good for Mclaren either.

Different management might help


I dont know. They still have to ensure their own cars win, not the customer, or the board room will want to know why and suggest they just make engines for others.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:26 am 
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SkySportsF1 did this same thing yesterday. They took a quote from Mike Gascoyne in which he said "it just sounds like a decision has been made" because Zak Brown/Eric Boullier have been harsher when talking about Honda's performance the last few races, and translated that to a headline of "F1 Report: 'McLaren decision to divorce Honda has been taken'". Apparently one person - who is in no way associated with either McLaren or Honda - suggesting it sounds like they've reached a decision because of increased public criticism equates to a headline that McLaren have taken the decision. Ridiculous, really.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:51 am 
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I wonder whether Honda is going to buy Sauber.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:58 am 
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I would have thought that is a decent plan TBH but I also wonder if Honda would be ditched in its entirety. McLaren would surely take some sort of option, they would look foolish if they ditched Honda only for them to produce a working reliable PU 6 months later having done all the development work.

Merc are good now but can they stay at the top? It wasn't long ago that Ferrari were sacking staff left right and centre and now they are equal top dog!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:06 pm 
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moby wrote:
mcdo wrote:
moby wrote:
Everyone expecting a Merc engine, but if you recall, they were not on the best of terms when they split, why should they be now? Merc more or less only bought the team they have because Mclaren would not sell out to them. The last season was not that good for Mclaren either.

Different management might help


I dont know. They still have to ensure their own cars win, not the customer, or the board room will want to know why and suggest they just make engines for others.

Yeah if Merc looked at McLaren and reckoned they had the potential to build a chassis as good as Ferrari have then I don't know why the board would ever go for it. I remember McLaren themselves being kind to a team called Brawn... little did they know

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
I would have thought that is a decent plan TBH but I also wonder if Honda would be ditched in its entirety. McLaren would surely take some sort of option, they would look foolish if they ditched Honda only for them to produce a working reliable PU 6 months later having done all the development work.

Merc are good now but can they stay at the top? It wasn't long ago that Ferrari were sacking staff left right and centre and now they are equal top dog!


I'm sorry but how obvious does it have to be to people that Honda is nowhere close to catching up? 6 months? Are you kidding me? You read every story out there and it's an utter disaster; they don't have proper simulation, they are refusing outside help and they don't know what is wrong with the current engine. There is absolutely NO way they are going to fix this in 6 months, next year or or any time soon. If Mclaren sticks with them next year they are going to deserve every bit of misery they get at this point.
Sorry but at this point, Honda belongs with Sauber; at the back of the grid. Mclaren needs to look at other options.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:39 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
I wonder whether Honda is going to buy Sauber.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

That would be yet another epic mistake by Honda. They were utterly ruined as a works team the first time. Today they look even less competent than back then.

Not going to happen.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
I would have thought that is a decent plan TBH but I also wonder if Honda would be ditched in its entirety. McLaren would surely take some sort of option, they would look foolish if they ditched Honda only for them to produce a working reliable PU 6 months later having done all the development work.

Merc are good now but can they stay at the top? It wasn't long ago that Ferrari were sacking staff left right and centre and now they are equal top dog!



I'll have some of what you are smoking. It's insane to think that Honda is anywhere near being competitive in 6 months. Absolutely insane.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:41 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
I would have thought that is a decent plan TBH but I also wonder if Honda would be ditched in its entirety. McLaren would surely take some sort of option, they would look foolish if they ditched Honda only for them to produce a working reliable PU 6 months later having done all the development work.

Merc are good now but can they stay at the top? It wasn't long ago that Ferrari were sacking staff left right and centre and now they are equal top dog!


I'm sorry but how obvious does it have to be to people that Honda is nowhere close to catching up? 6 months? Are you kidding me? You read every story out there and it's an utter disaster; they don't have proper simulation, they are refusing outside help and they don't know what is wrong with the current engine. There is absolutely NO way they are going to fix this in 6 months, next year or or any time soon. If Mclaren sticks with them next year they are going to deserve every bit of misery they get at this point.
Sorry but at this point, Honda belongs with Sauber; at the back of the grid. Mclaren needs to look at other options.


Yes, I get that, I also get that the rumour is only that, but Honda do make decent PU's ref Alonso's Indy performance. I'm suggesting they keep an option while Honda continue developing and perhaps using a Mercedes stock product for a while. Would Mercedes be averse to that? There is speculation that they won't be a constructer for ever and may revert to engines only.

They are not the only PU manufacture having problems and with the regs as they are they could, if correctly resourced make rapid progress.
If McLaren insisted they take help, and sorted the simulation, they might be steered to a development format that could produce results.
I just can't see them bumbling at the back forever.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:

I just can't see them bumbling at the back forever.


How many years will it take for you to give up on Honda is not 3? 5 years? 7 years? 10?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
but Honda do make decent PU's ref Alonso's Indy performance.


Honda's Indy Car engines are designed and built in the USA. A completely different team from the one in Japan.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:51 pm 
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McLaren return to Mercedes
Alonso quits for Renault
Mercedes drop their F1 team and make McLaren the de-facto factory team
Hamilton joins McLaren and wins the WDC
Renault-Honda has a critical KERS issue


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:25 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
McLaren return to Mercedes
Alonso quits for Renault
Mercedes drop their F1 team and make McLaren the de-facto factory team
Hamilton joins McLaren and wins the WDC
Renault-Honda has a critical KERS issue


And Sauber does a Brawn


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I wonder whether Honda is going to buy Sauber.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

That would be yet another epic mistake by Honda. They were utterly ruined as a works team the first time. Today they look even less competent than back then.

Not going to happen.

What's wrong with Sauber? They did very well IMO as BMW.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:

I just can't see them bumbling at the back forever.


How many years will it take for you to give up on Honda is not 3? 5 years? 7 years? 10?


Worse case scenario how many years would it take to start from scratch and build a PU? I have no history of bing a massive supporter of Honda but common sense says you don't 'throw the baby out with the bath water'.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
but Honda do make decent PU's ref Alonso's Indy performance.


Honda's Indy Car engines are designed and built in the USA. A completely different team from the one in Japan.


Which is one possible scenario that proves my point. It is a successful racing PU manufactured by Honda.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I wonder whether Honda is going to buy Sauber.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

That would be yet another epic mistake by Honda. They were utterly ruined as a works team the first time. Today they look even less competent than back then.

Not going to happen.

If Honda look at their history the most successful period was the mid 80s to early 90s, what they did back then was to put their turbo engine in a backmarker car, Spirit, were they could be developed out of the limelight and nobody really cared if the engines were blowing up now and again or were uncompetitive. As soon as they looked competitive they got snapped up by a top team, Williams, and won loads of races and a title for Piquet, McLaren snapped the engines up off Williams and won 4 titles, 3 for Senna and 1 for Prost.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
but Honda do make decent PU's ref Alonso's Indy performance.


Honda's Indy Car engines are designed and built in the USA. A completely different team from the one in Japan.


Which is one possible scenario that proves my point. It is a successful racing PU manufactured by Honda.

Didn't the engine blow up?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:06 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I wonder whether Honda is going to buy Sauber.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

That would be yet another epic mistake by Honda. They were utterly ruined as a works team the first time. Today they look even less competent than back then.

Not going to happen.

What's wrong with Sauber? They did very well IMO as BMW.


I dont think they have done well as a second generation team.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
but Honda do make decent PU's ref Alonso's Indy performance.


Honda's Indy Car engines are designed and built in the USA. A completely different team from the one in Japan.


Which is one possible scenario that proves my point. It is a successful racing PU manufactured by Honda.


I seriously doubt this is a "possible" scenario. It might be, but I dont think that to be true.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
I would have thought that is a decent plan TBH but I also wonder if Honda would be ditched in its entirety. McLaren would surely take some sort of option, they would look foolish if they ditched Honda only for them to produce a working reliable PU 6 months later having done all the development work.

Merc are good now but can they stay at the top? It wasn't long ago that Ferrari were sacking staff left right and centre and now they are equal top dog!


I think they are already under that situation. By the time the development for the new car will have to take into account the specific engine dimensions layouts etc, Mclaren will make their decision. Mercedes couldn't care less if it's now or later.

So yeah, right now Macca is pressing Honda for those 90million actually. Pressing Honda into building a decent engine, so that next year they are both competitive and with an extra 90 million.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:34 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
I think they are already under that situation. By the time the development for the new car will have to take into account the specific engine dimensions layouts etc, Mclaren will make their decision. Mercedes couldn't care less if it's now or later.

So yeah, right now Macca is pressing Honda for those 90million actually. Pressing Honda into building a decent engine, so that next year they are both competitive and with an extra 90 million.


Could next year see McLaren regularly getting in to Q1 and finishing in the top 10, hell, even top 5?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Geez. Damn clickbait fake articles on internet. The mod should change this thread's misleading title aswell.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:26 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Geez. Damn clickbait fake articles on internet. The mod should change this thread's misleading title aswell.


Clickbait removed and title altered.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:28 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
I would have thought that is a decent plan TBH but I also wonder if Honda would be ditched in its entirety. McLaren would surely take some sort of option, they would look foolish if they ditched Honda only for them to produce a working reliable PU 6 months later having done all the development work.

Merc are good now but can they stay at the top? It wasn't long ago that Ferrari were sacking staff left right and centre and now they are equal top dog!


I think they are already under that situation. By the time the development for the new car will have to take into account the specific engine dimensions layouts etc, Mclaren will make their decision. Mercedes couldn't care less if it's now or later.

So yeah, right now Macca is pressing Honda for those 90million actually. Pressing Honda into building a decent engine, so that next year they are both competitive and with an extra 90 million.


Honestly I think it's past that stage, or I would hope it should be. There should be no more "pressing" going on now. There should only be talks of life after Honda.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Kev627 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Geez. Damn clickbait fake articles on internet. The mod should change this thread's misleading title aswell.


Clickbait removed and title altered.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:43 am 
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kleefton wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
I would have thought that is a decent plan TBH but I also wonder if Honda would be ditched in its entirety. McLaren would surely take some sort of option, they would look foolish if they ditched Honda only for them to produce a working reliable PU 6 months later having done all the development work.

Merc are good now but can they stay at the top? It wasn't long ago that Ferrari were sacking staff left right and centre and now they are equal top dog!


I think they are already under that situation. By the time the development for the new car will have to take into account the specific engine dimensions layouts etc, Mclaren will make their decision. Mercedes couldn't care less if it's now or later.

So yeah, right now Macca is pressing Honda for those 90million actually. Pressing Honda into building a decent engine, so that next year they are both competitive and with an extra 90 million.


Honestly I think it's past that stage, or I would hope it should be. There should be no more "pressing" going on now. There should only be talks of life after Honda.


I'm pretty sure they are still pressing Honda. If everything would be sorted out, it'd be a done deal.

Regarding the 90 million, Zak Brown is more business minded. I could see Ron drop the 90 mil, but not Zak Brown. At this moment, they are still with their behinds in 2 boats. They will only split when it will be critical for the 2018 car. Until then, pressure pressure pressure.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:47 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
What I find amusing is that I think Eddie Jordan who many people dislike could turn out to be right again. Quite a while ago now, he said McLaren would run Mercedes power in 2018. Toto may have denied that instantly but I'm not convinced it isn't true. He also predicted Alonso would be at Renault in 2018 if he stayed in F1 and this was right at the beginning of the year. He very often predicts the future correctly so I believe he could be right with both of these. But if McLaren don't go with Mercedes power, will their car be any good? Do we know that their chassis is very good? In 2014, they had Mercedes power and Williams were miles ahead and they only managed 1 podium. Unless their chassis has improved massively and they go with the Mercedes power, I don't think they will be a top team. But they will certainly be far better than they are now.

I think Sauber should give Honda a go. It will be better than a year old engine. Even if it is more unreliable, it will probably give them an ability so shine at certain tracks which is probably more than they could do with an old engine. So I think they may as well take the risk, especially since there could be a chance that Honda may improve. Not that that is likely, but if it did happen, Sauber will maybe be a midfield team again.


Eddie often predicts it correct because he says the most rational/realistic option. People berate him for it. I've been saying all along since the first race that Mclaren won't stick with Honda unless a miracle occurred. So far that miracle is no where to be seen.

As for Sauber - the only reason they will go Honda is due to financial reasons. I'd rather have an old engine than one that fails to get me to the finishing line. I believe Murray Walker had a brilliant quote about finishing. Just tried looking for it but every site I find is ridiculously advert filled galore.

Remember Sauber with that old engine and the financial/technical turnaround far behind what Mclaren have still are in a better position in the team standings with 4 points. With that Honda they may struggle to even get a single point throughout the season.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
What I find amusing is that I think Eddie Jordan who many people dislike could turn out to be right again. Quite a while ago now, he said McLaren would run Mercedes power in 2018. Toto may have denied that instantly but I'm not convinced it isn't true. He also predicted Alonso would be at Renault in 2018 if he stayed in F1 and this was right at the beginning of the year. He very often predicts the future correctly so I believe he could be right with both of these. But if McLaren don't go with Mercedes power, will their car be any good? Do we know that their chassis is very good? In 2014, they had Mercedes power and Williams were miles ahead and they only managed 1 podium. Unless their chassis has improved massively and they go with the Mercedes power, I don't think they will be a top team. But they will certainly be far better than they are now.

I think Sauber should give Honda a go. It will be better than a year old engine. Even if it is more unreliable, it will probably give them an ability so shine at certain tracks which is probably more than they could do with an old engine. So I think they may as well take the risk, especially since there could be a chance that Honda may improve. Not that that is likely, but if it did happen, Sauber will maybe be a midfield team again.


Eddie often predicts it correct because he says the most rational/realistic option. People berate him for it. I've been saying all along since the first race that Mclaren won't stick with Honda unless a miracle occurred. So far that miracle is no where to be seen.

As for Sauber - the only reason they will go Honda is due to financial reasons. I'd rather have an old engine than one that fails to get me to the finishing line. I believe Murray Walker had a brilliant quote about finishing. Just tried looking for it but every site I find is ridiculously advert filled galore.

Remember Sauber with that old engine and the financial/technical turnaround far behind what Mclaren have still are in a better position in the team standings with 4 points. With that Honda they may struggle to even get a single point throughout the season.

I think Sauber-Honda is a match made in heaven. They can quietly go about their business outside of the limelight and get both sides of the operation pointing forwards again

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Location: Miami, Florida
^^^ Agreed mcdo.

Sauber is a team that has some seriously elite engineers but their cash flow has hindered their ability to go all out from the onset as well as severely impede their ability to refine and further develop their cars during seasons, and becoming Honda's essential Works Team will bring with it plenty of money which will (hopefully) go a long way towards changing this. On the engine side, Honda isn't really that far off at the moment and they just need to reconfigure some things and go back to the drawing board with their assisting power systems and they'll be right on pace. Renault suffered in the same areas, in very much the same way and it took them 2 seasons to get to where they are currently. Sure they're a little down on power compared to Ferrari & Mercedes, but they're not that far off. If Honda stick with it, I fully expect them to get it right… Eventually. The one issue I feel might be to blame is the person heading up the operation.

Like the shake up at Ferrari the last few years, perhaps something along those lines is needed at Honda to allow the engineers to get things done at a more F1 pace.

_________________
HAMILTON :: VETTEL :: ROSBERG :: RAIKKONEN :: VERSTAPPEN :: SAINZ :: MASSA :: BOTTAS :: NASR
ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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