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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:47 pm 
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nate wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
What was the earliest the championship was won?

who has had the highest finishes (ie never finished lower than 3rd etc) for the longest

I have no idea on the answers though :)


Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd imagine both of those records belong to Schumi from 2002

Championship won 65% of the way through (at the 11th of 17 races)

19 consecutive podiums from USA 2001 to Japan 2002. Although I know Alonso came bloody close to that in 2006


Alonso scored 15 in a row in 2005-06


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:13 am 
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If I've counted correctly, Michael Schumacher was Formula One World Champion for 1792 days consecutively.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:49 am 
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Has anyone ever won a drivers championship without ever winning a race?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:01 am 
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beanchimp wrote:
Has anyone ever won a drivers championship without ever winning a race?


I don't think so - but it has been won with the WDC winning only one: Keke Rosberg in 1982 (and possibly other seasons too, that I don't know for sure). In fact in 1982 every driver from 2nd to 6th won 2 races to Rosbergs one.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:05 am 
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mds wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
Has anyone ever won a drivers championship without ever winning a race?


I don't think so - but it has been won with the WDC winning only one: Keke Rosberg in 1982 (and possibly other seasons too, that I don't know for sure). In fact in 1982 every driver from 2nd to 6th won 2 races to Rosbergs one.


And then in 2003, Raikkonen came within 2 points of winning the championship despite only winning 1 race compared with Schumacher's 6


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:28 am 
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Vince: to remember Paul O'Shea's 300-SL you must be an old *inaudible* like Obie and me?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:31 pm 
mds wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
Has anyone ever won a drivers championship without ever winning a race?


I don't think so - but it has been won with the WDC winning only one: Keke Rosberg in 1982 (and possibly other seasons too, that I don't know for sure). In fact in 1982 every driver from 2nd to 6th won 2 races to Rosbergs one.


Kimi also holds the record for most 2nd places in a season that year too. Outright with 7/16 and percentage wise with 44%.

Alonso was close in 2006 with 7/17.

Kimi could break his own record this season too, he currently has 6 with 5 races to go.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:26 pm 
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beanchimp wrote:
Has anyone ever won a drivers championship without ever winning a race?


No driver won a WDC without a race-win, but in 1958 Hawthorn/Ferrari won the WDC with one win and five second places, with Moss second (!!) with four wins and one second place. I don't like points awards.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:29 pm 
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nate wrote:
mds wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
Has anyone ever won a drivers championship without ever winning a race?


I don't think so - but it has been won with the WDC winning only one: Keke Rosberg in 1982 (and possibly other seasons too, that I don't know for sure). In fact in 1982 every driver from 2nd to 6th won 2 races to Rosbergs one.


And then in 2003, Raikkonen came within 2 points of winning the championship despite only winning 1 race compared with Schumacher's 6


Again shows how ridiculous the points systems have been.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:55 pm 
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POBRatings wrote:
nate wrote:
mds wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
Has anyone ever won a drivers championship without ever winning a race?


I don't think so - but it has been won with the WDC winning only one: Keke Rosberg in 1982 (and possibly other seasons too, that I don't know for sure). In fact in 1982 every driver from 2nd to 6th won 2 races to Rosbergs one.


And then in 2003, Raikkonen came within 2 points of winning the championship despite only winning 1 race compared with Schumacher's 6


Again shows how ridiculous the points systems have been.


I share your view that the 10-8-6... points system didn't value a win as much as it should, but regardless of the points system, 2003 was a remarkably close season. When you consider that Schumi had zero mechanical failures that season (his retirement in Brazil was from a spin caused by a mistake), and that Kimi retired from a comfortable lead in the European GP, a close 2nd in the standings is not unwarranted for the Finn. In any points system, had Raikkonen's McLaren finished that race, he would have been world champion that year. Not that I'm saying Schumi didn't deserve the title, but the points system is not to blame for making that a close season.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Someone had pointed out in this forum last year that Pastor Maldonado's 15th positions in the WDC standings might be the lowest position for a race-winning driver. There were a total of 7 drivers ahead in the standings who had not won a race (including both Sauber and Force India drivers). This may well be a record, though I can't tell for sure. I went back to the early 90's to confirm that this is a record at least since 1991, though these drivers come close:
Giancarlo Fisichella: 12th in WDC in 2003. Won in Brazil
Olivier Panis: 9th in 1996 after winning Monaco in wet conditions

I imagine that Pastor is the record-holder here because there were fewer points-paying positions in the past, and it was far more difficult for a driver to pick up 9 points without a win in the earlier years than it is for someone to gather 25 win-less points today.

Edit: Nelson Piquet finished 11th in 1982


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Didn't Schumacher finish 2nd in the WDC the year he broke his legs

What is the highest standing in the WDC has a driver done by competing in the least amount of races, or something like that

That will be the points system at work then


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:42 pm 
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beanchimp wrote:
Didn't Schumacher finish 2nd in the WDC the year he broke his legs

What is the highest standing in the WDC has a driver done by competing in the least amount of races, or something like that

That will be the points system at work then


No, Schumacher finished 5th in 1999. Still a remarkable effort. About you 2nd question i believe Lauda in 1976 missed 2 races and finished 2nd and Schumacher won 1994 while not competing in 2 races (because of a ban).
Panis finished 9th in a Prost in 1997 despite missing 7 races due to injury. He was 3rd in the championship at the time of the crash.
Rindt died 4 races before the end of the championship back in 1970 and still won.
Clark did not compete in the Monaco GP of 1965 and not only he won the championship but managed to score the maximum points available. Only the best six results counted towards the championship and he managed to win the following 6 races in a row. Fun fact: Clark didn't race in Monaco in order to compete in the Indianapolis 500 which he actually won.)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:56 pm 
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zoomsthru wrote:
POBRatings wrote:
nate wrote:
mds wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
Has anyone ever won a drivers championship without ever winning a race?


I don't think so - but it has been won with the WDC winning only one: Keke Rosberg in 1982 (and possibly other seasons too, that I don't know for sure). In fact in 1982 every driver from 2nd to 6th won 2 races to Rosbergs one.


And then in 2003, Raikkonen came within 2 points of winning the championship despite only winning 1 race compared with Schumacher's 6


Again shows how ridiculous the points systems have been.


I share your view that the 10-8-6... points system didn't value a win as much as it should, but regardless of the points system, 2003 was a remarkably close season. When you consider that Schumi had zero mechanical failures that season (his retirement in Brazil was from a spin caused by a mistake), and that Kimi retired from a comfortable lead in the European GP, a close 2nd in the standings is not unwarranted for the Finn. In any points system, had Raikkonen's McLaren finished that race, he would have been world champion that year. Not that I'm saying Schumi didn't deserve the title, but the points system is not to blame for making that a close season.


Raikkonen should have won in Australia but lost out by receiving a penalty for speeding in the pit-lane (by 1.1 km/h) due to a faulty pit-lane speed limiter. He was leading in Brazil when the race was stopped early (after 55 laps). Although awarded the win, it was subsequently taken off him and awarded to Fisichella (whose car was sitting in the pits with its engine on fire when the chequered flag fell) when it was realised that an error had been made in calculating the lap on which the race results should be based.

Kimi had other misfortunes that year, too. He came away from the two races held in Germany with nothing - his engine expired whilst leading at the Nurburgring and he was nerfed off by Barrichello at the first corner at Hockenheim. Kimi would have won at Indy if it hadn't rained: he'd taken pole and led the race early on, but found that his Michelin tyres were no match for the Bridgestones in the wet. As it was, he did well to finish second, the highest Michelin-shod runner.

Kimi would have made a worthy champion in 2003. His car wasn't the class of the field but he made the most of it and drove with considerable skill and verve throughout the campaign.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:27 am 
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Fountoukos13 wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
Didn't Schumacher finish 2nd in the WDC the year he broke his legs

What is the highest standing in the WDC has a driver done by competing in the least amount of races, or something like that

That will be the points system at work then


No, Schumacher finished 5th in 1999. Still a remarkable effort. About you 2nd question i believe Lauda in 1976 missed 2 races and finished 2nd and Schumacher won 1994 while not competing in 2 races (because of a ban).
Panis finished 9th in a Prost in 1997 despite missing 7 races due to injury. He was 3rd in the championship at the time of the crash.
Rindt died 4 races before the end of the championship back in 1970 and still won.
Clark did not compete in the Monaco GP of 1965 and not only he won the championship but managed to score the maximum points available. Only the best six results counted towards the championship and he managed to win the following 6 races in a row. Fun fact: Clark didn't race in Monaco in order to compete in the Indianapolis 500 which he actually won.)


Thanks, thats some more amazing stats


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:26 am 
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Would like to kick this thread back up as I am a bit of a statistics nut and I love the racefans stats & facts articles, and from time to time you read some good ones there.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/07/03/201 ... and-facts/

Some interesting ones from this weekend:
- Verstappen is now tied for "most wins without a pole position" with Irvine and McLaren. He might, of course, lose it again once he (inevitably?) gets one.
- Hamilton's retirement meant he didn't break Heidfelds record for finishing in consecutive races, both are tied at 33
- Raikkonen has 26 podiums since his last win, 10 more than any driver in F1 history
- for the first time ever, 3 teams each won 3 races in the first 9 races of the championship

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:47 am 
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There must be some unique stats for Brawn, not least 100% record in the WCC and WDC.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:05 pm 
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mds wrote:
Would like to kick this thread back up as I am a bit of a statistics nut and I love the racefans stats & facts articles, and from time to time you read some good ones there.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/07/03/201 ... and-facts/

Some interesting ones from this weekend:
- Verstappen is now tied for "most wins without a pole position" with Irvine and McLaren. He might, of course, lose it again once he (inevitably?) gets one.
- Hamilton's retirement meant he didn't break Heidfelds record for finishing in consecutive races, both are tied at 33
- Raikkonen has 26 podiums since his last win, 10 more than any driver in F1 history
- for the first time ever, 3 teams each won 3 races in the first 9 races of the championship


Thanks for sharing this :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:12 pm 
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I just noticed in the comments of the above article that Verstappen's four wins would all have beaten the previous record for youngest driver to win a race (Vettel, Monza 2008, 21y 73d).

The article mentions Alonso's 100% record of out qualifying Vandoorne so far this season. Does anyone know if a driver has such a record across a full season?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:15 pm 
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mds wrote:
- Hamilton's retirement meant he didn't break Heidfelds record for finishing in consecutive races, both are tied at 33


Brundle said on commentary that if Hamilton had completed one more lap he would have been qualified as a finisher and would have beaten the record. Not sure how that works exactly though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:16 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
There must be some unique stats for Brawn, not least 100% record in the WCC and WDC.


Highest winning % of any constructor as they won 47.1% races they started is one they also hold :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:23 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
The article mentions Alonso's 100% record of out qualifying Vandoorne so far this season. Does anyone know if a driver has such a record across a full season?


Yes, Fangio against his teammates in 1956 is one example. Jim Clark in 1963. Probably quite some more to be found although the more races per season, the harder this becomes.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
mds wrote:
- Hamilton's retirement meant he didn't break Heidfelds record for finishing in consecutive races, both are tied at 33


Brundle said on commentary that if Hamilton had completed one more lap he would have been qualified as a finisher and would have beaten the record. Not sure how that works exactly though.


A driver officially DNF's if he has covered less than 90% of the racing distance. If he has more, he won't get a DNF but will be given a finishing position.

Hamilton did 62 laps out of 71 = 87.3%
If he'd done 64 out of 71 that would have been 90.1% and he wouldn't have had a "DNF". :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
mds wrote:
- Hamilton's retirement meant he didn't break Heidfelds record for finishing in consecutive races, both are tied at 33


Brundle said on commentary that if Hamilton had completed one more lap he would have been qualified as a finisher and would have beaten the record. Not sure how that works exactly though.

If you complete 90% of the race distance, you get classified. Basically a way to ensure most lapped traffic still running is classified rather than being listed as a DNF.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:03 pm 
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mds wrote:
JN23 wrote:
The article mentions Alonso's 100% record of out qualifying Vandoorne so far this season. Does anyone know if a driver has such a record across a full season?


Yes, Fangio against his teammates in 1956 is one example. Jim Clark in 1963. Probably quite some more to be found although the more races per season, the harder this becomes.


Thanks. Yeah I still think it will be almost impossible for Fernando to have 100% record this season with 21 races.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
mds wrote:
- Hamilton's retirement meant he didn't break Heidfelds record for finishing in consecutive races, both are tied at 33


Brundle said on commentary that if Hamilton had completed one more lap he would have been qualified as a finisher and would have beaten the record. Not sure how that works exactly though.



Not sure he's right. Hamilton has the record for most consecutive points finishes; 33. He is the joint record holder with Heidfeld for most consecutive finishes; also 33. So he would have needed to actual finish to get that record to himself. And the record for most classified finishes is Heidfeld again; on 41. Hamilton would have only had 34 if had been classified in Austria.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:16 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
Lojik wrote:
mds wrote:
- Hamilton's retirement meant he didn't break Heidfelds record for finishing in consecutive races, both are tied at 33


Brundle said on commentary that if Hamilton had completed one more lap he would have been qualified as a finisher and would have beaten the record. Not sure how that works exactly though.



Not sure he's right. Hamilton has the record for most consecutive points finishes; 33. He is the joint record holder with Heidfeld for most consecutive finishes; also 33. So he would have needed to actual finish to get that record to himself. And the record for most classified finishes is Heidfeld again; on 41. Hamilton would have only had 34 if had been classified in Austria.


Yes I think I quoted him slightly wrong come to think of it, I think he meant he would still have been in the hunt for that record with another lap (or 2). Thanks for the explanations on how DNFs are calculated btw. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:16 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
mds wrote:
JN23 wrote:
The article mentions Alonso's 100% record of out qualifying Vandoorne so far this season. Does anyone know if a driver has such a record across a full season?


Yes, Fangio against his teammates in 1956 is one example. Jim Clark in 1963. Probably quite some more to be found although the more races per season, the harder this becomes.


Thanks. Yeah I still think it will be almost impossible for Fernando to have 100% record this season with 21 races.


It's 14 in a row right now I believe but that includes last season.

Think it might end this weekend, Stoff looked better last year.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:55 am 
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This is completely stolen from Reddit, and I haven't fact checked it at all so apologies if BS:


TIL excluding reliability retirements, Lewis Hamilton has only 25 non-points finishes in his career, including 1 DSQ and 11 collision retirements - an 87.8% points record. In the same metric, Sebastian Vettel has 24 non-points finishes, 12 collisions retirements, and an 87.5% points record.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:39 am 
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That would take a while to fact check, but it says a lot for how close those two drivers are. Which is why we mods always despair when someone is trying to elevate one far above the other!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:58 pm 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
That would take a while to fact check, but it says a lot for how close those two drivers are. Which is why we mods always despair when someone is trying to elevate one far above the other!

No point decideding which of those is best when Malddonado is clearly the goat! :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:06 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
That would take a while to fact check, but it says a lot for how close those two drivers are. Which is why we mods always despair when someone is trying to elevate one far above the other!

No point decideding which of those is best when Malddonado is clearly the goat! :lol:

I have a soft spot for Williams, he broke their win drought. Don't get into that one with me ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:58 pm 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
That would take a while to fact check, but it says a lot for how close those two drivers are. Which is why we mods always despair when someone is trying to elevate one far above the other!

No point decideding which of those is best when Malddonado is clearly the goat! :lol:

I have a soft spot for Williams, he broke their win drought. Don't get into that one with me ;)

Williams were the first team I followed in F1, will always hope for a return to glory!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Great set of stats here for Hamilton/Alaonso/Vettel. Cherry pickers will have a field day :nod:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/hamilton-vs-alonso-vs-vettel-f1-statistics


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