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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:13 pm 
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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41886607

Isn't he rich enough?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:21 pm 
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He took advice from a professional and acted accordingly. Anybody who's ever taken out an ISA has taken steps to minimise their tax bill and the rich just do it on a different scale. Whatever the outcome, the focus should be on the professional tax advisors, not their clients. But I doubt that will stop the witch-hunters


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:24 pm 
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They all dodge taxes in some way, that's why a load of them live in Monaco.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:25 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
He took advice from a professional and acted accordingly. Anybody who's ever taken out an ISA has taken steps to minimise their tax bill and the rich just do it on a different scale. Whatever the outcome, the focus should be on the professional tax advisors, not their clients. But I doubt that will stop the witch-hunters


:thumbup:

I doubt Hamilton would even know about TBH. I'm sure Hamilton doesn't manage his money himself.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Smart guy. You'd be stupid to pay any more taxes that you have to.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:35 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Smart guy. You'd be stupid to pay any more taxes that you have to.


Exactly. Why would anyone over pay taxes? Let the yahoos scream about it. Only a fool overpays.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
He took advice from a professional and acted accordingly. Anybody who's ever taken out an ISA has taken steps to minimise their tax bill and the rich just do it on a different scale. Whatever the outcome, the focus should be on the professional tax advisors, not their clients. But I doubt that will stop the witch-hunters


The focus should be on the tax laws. The advisors, if they are law abiding, simply follow the laws as written.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:50 pm 
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I never involve myself in someone else's taxes. Too busy looking for things I can write off myself!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:17 pm 
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I read the article and it's not that simple as appears.

Basically, he registered the airplane for predominantly business use. However, he uses the jet about 1/3 of a time in private affairs. I am quoting now the article:

"If private usage of the jet is being disguised as business usage of the jet, then what you essentially have is a tax avoidance scheme," says Rita De La Feria, professor of tax law at Leeds University.

"You're using it for your own private interests, you're going on holidays, meeting friends. You're supposed to pay the tax on private consumption."

The scheme how he avoided paying the tax is given in the article.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Thats the knighthood out the window


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:41 pm 
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Oh dear, I hope he's doing ok.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:46 pm 
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I guess that is the problem with Monaco, no airfields

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:52 pm 
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The loopholes have to be closed. It is ridiculous that his advisors can plot these cunning schemes.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed in him but I'm not a fan because of his personal affairs.

To be honest, I'd be shocked if every driver isn't doing something like this to a certain extent.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Why does he even have to pay VAT when he's not a British resident?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:20 pm 
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why have these rules that allow this , that's the problem because they are not breaking the law so they do it


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:33 pm 
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thankfully the timing of this came after he secured the title. Let this ride out in the courts if it has to for years to come like Messi ,Neymar and Co...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:19 pm 
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All the money in the world and still looks at ways to avoid paying tax - tax that amongst other things pays for medical care for his fans.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:20 pm 
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Let he who hasn't paid cash to a builder/plasterer/bricky/painter cast the first stone!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:25 pm 
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If he gets into trouble for using it outside business use then fair enough

Any fuss over him using the scheme itself is just that


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
He took advice from a professional and acted accordingly. Anybody who's ever taken out an ISA has taken steps to minimise their tax bill and the rich just do it on a different scale. Whatever the outcome, the focus should be on the professional tax advisors, not their clients. But I doubt that will stop the witch-hunters

Not convinced by the "I hired someone to save me money and they advised me to do something illegal/immoral, so I did it, but I have no responsibility because I was unaware it was illegal/immoral" defence. It certainly wouldn't hold up in the case of illegality.

Most people who have ISAs have some idea of how they work and why they are allowed, even if they were advised of their existence by someone else and don't have the time/expertise to set one up for themselves. It's not a stretch to say that very rich people have a similar level of knowledge when they send millions to a foreign account and get it back as a loan they don't have to pay back. Or they pick up their private jet from a tax haven and don't have to pay tax on it.

Unless ignorance (and they extent to which it can be excused) somehow scales with wealth?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:21 am 
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Trump does the same thing, he uses his lawyers to find ways to evade paying taxes.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:22 am 
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wolfticket wrote:
Zoue wrote:
He took advice from a professional and acted accordingly. Anybody who's ever taken out an ISA has taken steps to minimise their tax bill and the rich just do it on a different scale. Whatever the outcome, the focus should be on the professional tax advisors, not their clients. But I doubt that will stop the witch-hunters

Not convinced by the "I hired someone to save me money and they advised me to do something illegal/immoral, so I did it, but I have no responsibility because I was unaware it was illegal/immoral" defence. It certainly wouldn't hold up in the case of illegality.

Most people who have ISAs have some idea of how they work and why they are allowed, even if they were advised of their existence by someone else and don't have the time/expertise to set one up for themselves. It's not a stretch to say that very rich people have a similar level of knowledge when they send millions to a foreign account and get it back as a loan they don't have to pay back. Or they pick up their private jet from a tax haven and don't have to pay tax on it.

Unless ignorance (and they extent to which it can be excused) somehow scales with wealth?


Wealthy people don't work like that, especially those not involved in or brought up around finance - I could be wrong of course but Hamilton particularly doesn't strike me as the kinda guy who wants to be distracted by managing his own portfolio. They hire a guy, that guy provides a return on investment.

I don't agree with this going after Hamilton, nor did I agree with them going after Gary Barlow or Jimmy Carr.

When they get access to data like this, I fully agree with exposing those people who have the capability to influence the rules and take advantage of this. Politicians, media owners, people who donate to political parties, the Queen (!!!) - that type of person. They could be using their influence to not only identify but actually create loopholes for themselves.

For those simply following the rules, often at an arm's length through a financial advisor anyway? Complete distraction from those who should be the real targets.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:29 am 
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Soooooooooo you strive to pay the highest tax possible? I just don't get it as this is a tool he uses for work. Under current Canadian tax law, I deduct my cell phone bill, car expenses, food, entertainment, travel, cloths, dry cleaning and the cost of gifts from the top line of my contract income.

Is this really a thing to focus on or is this just another "that bad man Lewis" thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsIQj8gZeo0


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:40 am 
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wolfticket wrote:
Zoue wrote:
He took advice from a professional and acted accordingly. Anybody who's ever taken out an ISA has taken steps to minimise their tax bill and the rich just do it on a different scale. Whatever the outcome, the focus should be on the professional tax advisors, not their clients. But I doubt that will stop the witch-hunters

Not convinced by the "I hired someone to save me money and they advised me to do something illegal/immoral, so I did it, but I have no responsibility because I was unaware it was illegal/immoral" defence. It certainly wouldn't hold up in the case of illegality.

Most people who have ISAs have some idea of how they work and why they are allowed, even if they were advised of their existence by someone else and don't have the time/expertise to set one up for themselves. It's not a stretch to say that very rich people have a similar level of knowledge when they send millions to a foreign account and get it back as a loan they don't have to pay back. Or they pick up their private jet from a tax haven and don't have to pay tax on it.

Unless ignorance (and they extent to which it can be excused) somehow scales with wealth?

many use a variety of schemes which limit their tax liability. When I do my tax return I engage an expert who tells me what I may and may not do and I often end up doing things I wouldn't have dreamt of doing independently. And as far as pensions go it may as well be discussed in Latin for all the understanding I have of it. All on a pretty small scale, unfortunately. And I know people with one-man limited companies who seem to pay no tax at all and it's all above board. The wealthier you are, the more disposable income you have and the more it becomes necessary to take expert advice to ensure you maximise your assets. If it was simple, anyone could do it and there wouldn't even be tax advisors. But there has to be a certain amount of trust in the professionals that what they are doing is legitimate and if they assure you that it is then you shouldn't have to second guess that


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:23 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Trump does the same thing, he uses his lawyers to find ways to evade paying taxes.


Don't know about Trump but Lewis isn't evading tax he is avoiding it. One is illegal one isn't.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:55 am 
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andrewinwork wrote:
All the money in the world and still looks at ways to avoid paying tax - tax that amongst other things pays for medical care for his fans.


For the love of god think of the children!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:56 am 
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jiminwatford wrote:
If he gets into trouble for using it outside business use then fair enough

Any fuss over him using the scheme itself is just that


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:10 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... ise-papers

This article has the best graphic explaining how the tax was reclaimed


I do not grasp the 'everyone would use loopholes to pay as little tax as possible if they could' argument at all. Especially as there's no chance Hamilton will come out and admit to that


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:52 am 
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Whether he broke the law or not, this came at a bad timing for Lewis. Just as the season is about to end wuth him already crowned a champion. He must have been thinking I am going to have a relaxing couple of race weekends. Now he is going to be faced with media scrutiny and a barrage of questions from the media in the paddock.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:07 am 
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Zazu wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/lewis-hamilton-avoided-taxes-jet-isle-of-man-scheme-paradise-papers

This article has the best graphic explaining how the tax was reclaimed


I do not grasp the 'everyone would use loopholes to pay as little tax as possible if they could' argument at all. Especially as there's no chance Hamilton will come out and admit to that


Different people have different morals. Bono, who has been caught up on this, seems to have a story which really checks out and I genuinely believe him when he says he wants everything above board.

Some people opt for 'moral' food, 'moral' business choices, 'moral' tax arrangements. I agree this makes them a better person than most. I also agree there's no way Hamilton is going to come out and say "I want to pay as little tax as possible", I think Trump is the only person who's managed to carry this argument well and he seems to be able to somehow carry anything well.

But really, sportspeople/showbiz people with no finance background getting someone else to manage their affairs? Not even news.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:57 am 
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jmc651 wrote:
Thats the knighthood out the window


Probably qualifies him even more for a knighthood, if you want to see elaborate tax avoidance on a grand scale then look no further than the UK Establishment.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:04 am 
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cmax wrote:
Whether he broke the law or not, this came at a bad timing for Lewis. Just as the season is about to end wuth him already crowned a champion. He must have been thinking I am going to have a relaxing couple of race weekends. Now he is going to be faced with media scrutiny and a barrage of questions from the media in the paddock.


I think the timing is not too bad. Ok he has to face the media but with two races remaining he has a chance to distract the conversation away with what he does on track.

It would have been worse before he won the championship

People may not vote for him in the BBC Sports Personality of the Year thing but i'm not sure he's too bothered by that


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:16 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Why does he even have to pay VAT when he's not a British resident?

Isn't his company in the UK? Or one of his companies? They'd have to be taxed


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:56 am 
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The whole article is written from a certain POV.

The basic Ideea is that the EU system for taxation is old in the scheme of things.

Because LH is new age media, he himself is like a business. Altough it seems that Dubai and other landings are for pleasure, he is his own company, so he has to invest in his own image. His own image brings revenues in different forms, which are then taxed. People pay to see others fly to Dubai, not see them book a Ryanair ticket. It's just how this business goes.

Governments are full of old farts, who refuse to move at the worlds pace.

For example, my EU government, doesn't accept that I have to take people for lunch and dinners, just to get their attention, not necesarily to get a deal done. I have to send them wine, chocolate, even smartphones to get noticed. Yes, it could be that my product is not competitive enough, but since everybody is doing it... it forces you to do it.

On the one hand, the gov is happy when he gets my money, but when he also has to chip in, he isn't happy.

The whole taxation system in the EU is old and not on based on the reality of business.

For example, in the scheme of things, governments in EU forbid you from a tax POV to do dropship businesses in the US. I mean, you can do it, but you end up paying more tax than you make in money. At the same time the EU says too many youth are unemployed. and for this reason, it is not surprising.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:41 am 
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Ennis wrote:
Zazu wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/lewis-hamilton-avoided-taxes-jet-isle-of-man-scheme-paradise-papers

This article has the best graphic explaining how the tax was reclaimed


I do not grasp the 'everyone would use loopholes to pay as little tax as possible if they could' argument at all. Especially as there's no chance Hamilton will come out and admit to that


Different people have different morals. Bono, who has been caught up on this, seems to have a story which really checks out and I genuinely believe him when he says he wants everything above board.

Some people opt for 'moral' food, 'moral' business choices, 'moral' tax arrangements. I agree this makes them a better person than most. I also agree there's no way Hamilton is going to come out and say "I want to pay as little tax as possible", I think Trump is the only person who's managed to carry this argument well and he seems to be able to somehow carry anything well.

But really, sportspeople/showbiz people with no finance background getting someone else to manage their affairs? Not even news.

The Bono bashing has been off the scale over the last 24 hours

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:45 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Zazu wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/lewis-hamilton-avoided-taxes-jet-isle-of-man-scheme-paradise-papers

This article has the best graphic explaining how the tax was reclaimed


I do not grasp the 'everyone would use loopholes to pay as little tax as possible if they could' argument at all. Especially as there's no chance Hamilton will come out and admit to that


Different people have different morals. Bono, who has been caught up on this, seems to have a story which really checks out and I genuinely believe him when he says he wants everything above board.

Some people opt for 'moral' food, 'moral' business choices, 'moral' tax arrangements. I agree this makes them a better person than most. I also agree there's no way Hamilton is going to come out and say "I want to pay as little tax as possible", I think Trump is the only person who's managed to carry this argument well and he seems to be able to somehow carry anything well.

But really, sportspeople/showbiz people with no finance background getting someone else to manage their affairs? Not even news.

The Bono bashing has been off the scale over the last 24 hours

Rightly so if this article is right:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dards.html


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Zazu wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/lewis-hamilton-avoided-taxes-jet-isle-of-man-scheme-paradise-papers

This article has the best graphic explaining how the tax was reclaimed


I do not grasp the 'everyone would use loopholes to pay as little tax as possible if they could' argument at all. Especially as there's no chance Hamilton will come out and admit to that


Different people have different morals. Bono, who has been caught up on this, seems to have a story which really checks out and I genuinely believe him when he says he wants everything above board.

Some people opt for 'moral' food, 'moral' business choices, 'moral' tax arrangements. I agree this makes them a better person than most. I also agree there's no way Hamilton is going to come out and say "I want to pay as little tax as possible", I think Trump is the only person who's managed to carry this argument well and he seems to be able to somehow carry anything well.

But really, sportspeople/showbiz people with no finance background getting someone else to manage their affairs? Not even news.

The Bono bashing has been off the scale over the last 24 hours

Rightly so if this article is right:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dards.html


I'm not sure the DM can really complain about other people's tax avoidance schemes...

The issue for me is that these loopholes are created, I'm unhappy with the government (both current and previous) over this, not the individuals taking advantage.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Would this tax avoidance ruin his knighthood honour?
http://www.spearswms.com/lewis-hamilton-can-kiss-knighthood-goodbye/

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Didn't dodge VET though, did he..?

(and it's not even Friday...)

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