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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:28 am 
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F1nut wrote:
Prema wrote:
I bet you're from the US, the most aggressive militant nation in the world, obsessed with weapons, and the single nation since the end of WW2 responsible for and engaged in by far the most wars around the world and deaths as the consequence of it (estimated 2 mil +) ?


:lol: ......it's called Texas son, and my ancestors were here long before it was ever apart of the United states of America - we are only aggressive when provoked or when foreigners need saving from their own pacifist nature or are too cowardly to save themselves, their loved ones or their neighbors from harm, just as any human's god-given Right to self preservation allows.

Remember Dunkirk in 1940, in the dark days following the British Expeditionary Force's evacuation, Great Britain was a nation virtually disarmed. And not just by the need to abandon equipment on France's beaches to save British "Tommies" to fight another day, but by the policies of its own government. The days of devotion to civilian markmanship, "volunteer rifle clubs" and the idea that there should be "a rifle in every cottage," as proposed by the Prime Minister Marquis of Salisbury in 1900, had given way to restrictive gun control laws that required subjects to demonstrate "good reason" to merely obtain a handgun or rifle. So with Hitler's legions poised to cross the English Channel, the British people were defended by an ill-equipped and defeated army and a "Home Guard" armed with little more than sporting shotguns and pikes.

Help for the beleaguered nation came from both the American government and from the American people, (Texans included) the latter through the "American Committee for Defense of British Homes." In late 1940, the committee sent an urgent appeal -- which, of course, appeared in NRA's magazine, the American Rifleman, (of which I'm a Benefactor/Life member and still receive to this day) -- for Americans to send "Pistols - Rifles - Revolvers - Shotguns - Binoculars" because "British civilians, faced with the threat of invasion, desperately need arms for the defense of their homes." Thousands of arms were collected and sent to England, one of which was a .30-'06 Model 1903 target rifle owned by Major John W. Hession. Hession was one of the pre-eminent highpower rifle target shooters of his day, and he used that rifle to win Olympic gold at Bisley Camp in England in 1908. The rifle, unlike the majority sent and subsequently destroyed by the British government, was returned and can now be viewed in the national Firearms Museum.

I and members of the Texas State Rifle Association, (Life member there also) sought to reclaim these weapons and have them returned to Texas, to place some of them in the National museum along Hession's and some here in the Texas Firearms museum, but to no avail - my grand-father was one that sent arms back then and the lilly liver'd Brits destroyed 'em.

Now, sadly, Britain is again a disarmed nation, where even Olympic athletes wanting to represent their country cannot own a handgun and where an act of self-defense can land a subject in jail. As with virtually all rifles and handguns, those likely few remaining guns sent to England in its time of desperate need have been confiscated and destroyed. Despite the very near enslavement of England being so close a mere six decades ago, the lesson of the false promises of gun control and personal disarmament were not learned.

Which explains how and why grown men abroad have now become so neutered morally as to actually fear the mere sight of a firearm.
I never knew about an attempt from across the Atlantic, to try to arm the Home Guard. Wasn't this seen as being against the neutrality of the US? In any case, once the autumn came with its rougher seas, Britain was safe from invasion, at least until the following year.

I can imagine someone never having seen a gun up close, let alone held one. When the military were deployed in the streets of our larger Belgian cities after the attacks, those who fly out on holidays would have seen their firearms, but those who don't would normally only see the handguns the police carry in their holsters. I don't believe I have ever seen a policeman with a drawn pistol ever, in my life. I hope that will continue to be the case, but I do fear the influence Hollywood is having on perceptions over here.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:35 pm 
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I own guns. I live in Texas too. They've never bothered me, and I've enjoyed shooting them, my father taught me when I was in grade school. So, I've been around them all my life, and i was taught about them when I was relatively young, which eliminated (in my opinion) any dangerous curiosity. I'm grateful for that. I have since introduced them to both of my sons. One of them has a great deal of interest, one of them does not. I don't push it, and I'm glad he has his interests, which at this juncture, doesn't include much regarding the outdoors (except for motorcycles!!) Additionally, hunting is something that has been done by many in both sides of my family for a long, long, time. Cousins, aunts, uncles. Having them living in Wyoming and south Texas of course contributed to such activities.

For those that don't abuse the privilege, and respect them, are licensed to carry them, etcl., there are no issues in my mind. There CAN Be, sure, and there are instances where legal gun owners let their guns get in the wrong hands, and it makes all of us responsible gun owners look bad. That truly bothers me. Sandy Hook being a prime example.

Their availability to those that shouldn't have them are bothersome, yes. You don't usually find criminals buying them at guns stores, though.

At any rate, I could go on, but I won't. Most people in this forum don't seem to have much interest, and that's fine with me. We all have likes and dislikes. I'm a responsible gun owner, and I like discussing the subject with like-minded folks, and even those that aren't like-minded, provided it is civil. I certainly try my best to keep it civil. I'm pleased for the most part in this thread that it has remained so.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:11 pm 
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Prema wrote:
I bet you're from the US, the most aggressive militant nation in the world, obsessed with weapons, and the single nation since the end of WW2 responsible for and engaged in by far the most wars around the world and deaths as the consequence of it (estimated 2 mil +) ?


No, the "most aggressive militant nation in the world" is Iran. They want you dead, me dead, everyone dead who doesn't buy into the BS that is Islam. If you're from the UK, you must be blind & deaf. You have assured that the UK be turned into a crap hole of death by Islamic loonies. Spare me the US bashing also. Please don't visit this country as we have enough crybabies here already thanks to crap public education.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:18 am 
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rotbimmer wrote:
Prema wrote:
I bet you're from the US, the most aggressive militant nation in the world, obsessed with weapons, and the single nation since the end of WW2 responsible for and engaged in by far the most wars around the world and deaths as the consequence of it (estimated 2 mil +) ?


No, the "most aggressive militant nation in the world" is Iran. They want you dead, me dead, everyone dead who doesn't buy into the BS that is Islam. If you're from the UK, you must be blind & deaf. You have assured that the UK be turned into a crap hole of death by Islamic loonies. Spare me the US bashing also. Please don't visit this country as we have enough crybabies here already thanks to crap public education.


Wow. Brainwashed much?

Tell me why Iran are 'bad', but Israel and Saudi Arabia are 'good'?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:23 am 
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The other week I went to Milton Keynes shopping centre (I think it was the day after the tube bomb in London) and there were armed police there. When you actually see a 'real' gun, it almost doesn't look real... it's very odd.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:56 am 
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rotbimmer wrote:
Prema wrote:
I bet you're from the US, the most aggressive militant nation in the world, obsessed with weapons, and the single nation since the end of WW2 responsible for and engaged in by far the most wars around the world and deaths as the consequence of it (estimated 2 mil +) ?


No, the "most aggressive militant nation in the world" is Iran. They want you dead, me dead, everyone dead who doesn't buy into the BS that is Islam. If you're from the UK, you must be blind & deaf. You have assured that the UK be turned into a crap hole of death by Islamic loonies. Spare me the US bashing also. Please don't visit this country as we have enough crybabies here already thanks to crap public education.


Look at you, all already forgotten about your 9/11 and where those folks who took those towers down came from... a hint: not from Iran.
You apparently have no idea that Saudi Arabia is the foremost exporter of the most radical Islam in this world, not Iran. Guess, you are listening too much of Trump's crap, who got his head stuck deep up to Saudis donkeys, who all want is to get rid of their regional rival Iran.

Anyway, it would be silly to even start comparing Iran's military engagements around the world with those of the US. And there are no Iranians terrorists either. They don't even have mass shootings in their own country. Compared to the US and their military engagements and wars around the world in the recent history, and the amount of people killed in those wars, Iran is the personification of the peace on Earth. What an irony, eh?

No, dear, unlike the US media/govt. propaganda that you have been obviously over-exposed to, they don't want to kill you, nor they are coming for you, nor they are trying to destroy your way of life in order to impose theirs. All they want is... that the US leave them alone and not bully them.

There are few countries in this world that openly defy the US and their dominance and military and economical power, and Iran happens to be one of these. That has been their "crime" since their revolution. And that is why the US supported their good boy the dictator Saddam in his invasion on Iran back in 80's, among other supplied him with the chemicals with which to gas Iranians.

(btw, so long so Trump is in power there, I am definitely not visiting the US again)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:37 am 
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Prema wrote:
rotbimmer wrote:
Prema wrote:
I bet you're from the US, the most aggressive militant nation in the world, obsessed with weapons, and the single nation since the end of WW2 responsible for and engaged in by far the most wars around the world and deaths as the consequence of it (estimated 2 mil +) ?


No, the "most aggressive militant nation in the world" is Iran. They want you dead, me dead, everyone dead who doesn't buy into the BS that is Islam. If you're from the UK, you must be blind & deaf. You have assured that the UK be turned into a crap hole of death by Islamic loonies. Spare me the US bashing also. Please don't visit this country as we have enough crybabies here already thanks to crap public education.


Look at you, all already forgotten about your 9/11 and where those folks who took those towers down came from... a hint: not from Iran.
You apparently have no idea that Saudi Arabia is the foremost exporter of the most radical Islam in this world, not Iran. Guess, you are listening too much of Trump's crap, who got his head stuck deep up to Saudis donkeys, who all want is to get rid of their regional rival Iran.

Anyway, it would be silly to even start comparing Iran's military engagements around the world with those of the US. And there are no Iranians terrorists either. They don't even have mass shootings in their own country. Compared to the US and their military engagements and wars around the world in the recent history, and the amount of people killed in those wars, Iran is the personification of the peace on Earth. What an irony, eh?

No, dear, unlike the US media/govt. propaganda that you have been obviously over-exposed to, they don't want to kill you, nor they are coming for you, nor they are trying to destroy your way of life in order to impose theirs. All they want is... that the US leave them alone and not bully them.

There are few countries in this world that openly defy the US and their dominance and military and economical power, and Iran happens to be one of these. That has been their "crime" since their revolution. And that is why the US supported their good boy the dictator Saddam in his invasion on Iran back in 80's, among other supplied him with the chemicals with which to gas Iranians.

(btw, so long so Trump is in power there, I am definitely not visiting the US again)


And it is a minor thing, but they don't want to kill you, they want to convert you. (or kill you if you do not :D )

The Caliphate of USA would be their idea, not the wasteland of USA full of dead.


Edit, to put it in context, if I had to choose up sides I would go with USA every time, so no brainwashing or false perspective.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:27 pm 
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moby wrote:
Prema wrote:
rotbimmer wrote:
Prema wrote:
I bet you're from the US, the most aggressive militant nation in the world, obsessed with weapons, and the single nation since the end of WW2 responsible for and engaged in by far the most wars around the world and deaths as the consequence of it (estimated 2 mil +) ?


No, the "most aggressive militant nation in the world" is Iran. They want you dead, me dead, everyone dead who doesn't buy into the BS that is Islam. If you're from the UK, you must be blind & deaf. You have assured that the UK be turned into a crap hole of death by Islamic loonies. Spare me the US bashing also. Please don't visit this country as we have enough crybabies here already thanks to crap public education.


Look at you, all already forgotten about your 9/11 and where those folks who took those towers down came from... a hint: not from Iran.
You apparently have no idea that Saudi Arabia is the foremost exporter of the most radical Islam in this world, not Iran. Guess, you are listening too much of Trump's crap, who got his head stuck deep up to Saudis donkeys, who all want is to get rid of their regional rival Iran.

Anyway, it would be silly to even start comparing Iran's military engagements around the world with those of the US. And there are no Iranians terrorists either. They don't even have mass shootings in their own country. Compared to the US and their military engagements and wars around the world in the recent history, and the amount of people killed in those wars, Iran is the personification of the peace on Earth. What an irony, eh?

No, dear, unlike the US media/govt. propaganda that you have been obviously over-exposed to, they don't want to kill you, nor they are coming for you, nor they are trying to destroy your way of life in order to impose theirs. All they want is... that the US leave them alone and not bully them.

There are few countries in this world that openly defy the US and their dominance and military and economical power, and Iran happens to be one of these. That has been their "crime" since their revolution. And that is why the US supported their good boy the dictator Saddam in his invasion on Iran back in 80's, among other supplied him with the chemicals with which to gas Iranians.

(btw, so long so Trump is in power there, I am definitely not visiting the US again)


And it is a minor thing, but they don't want to kill you, they want to convert you. (or kill you if you do not :D )

The Caliphate of USA would be their idea, not the wasteland of USA full of dead.


Edit, to put it in context, if I had to choose up sides I would go with USA every time, so no brainwashing or false perspective.



yeah, watch out, Iranians are coming to convert ya all... or plan "B", to kill ya all

Just see, it becomes obvious why God (the Christian one, of course, what other one can there be anyway) sent Trump to the WH.

Otherwise the US is pretty much brainwashed too. As so is in principle everywhere else, in this or that degree, with everybody else who identifies with that particular set of conditions that one is being born and raised into.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Prema wrote:
moby wrote:
Prema wrote:
rotbimmer wrote:
Prema wrote:
I bet you're from the US, the most aggressive militant nation in the world, obsessed with weapons, and the single nation since the end of WW2 responsible for and engaged in by far the most wars around the world and deaths as the consequence of it (estimated 2 mil +) ?


No, the "most aggressive militant nation in the world" is Iran. They want you dead, me dead, everyone dead who doesn't buy into the BS that is Islam. If you're from the UK, you must be blind & deaf. You have assured that the UK be turned into a crap hole of death by Islamic loonies. Spare me the US bashing also. Please don't visit this country as we have enough crybabies here already thanks to crap public education.


Look at you, all already forgotten about your 9/11 and where those folks who took those towers down came from... a hint: not from Iran.
You apparently have no idea that Saudi Arabia is the foremost exporter of the most radical Islam in this world, not Iran. Guess, you are listening too much of Trump's crap, who got his head stuck deep up to Saudis donkeys, who all want is to get rid of their regional rival Iran.

Anyway, it would be silly to even start comparing Iran's military engagements around the world with those of the US. And there are no Iranians terrorists either. They don't even have mass shootings in their own country. Compared to the US and their military engagements and wars around the world in the recent history, and the amount of people killed in those wars, Iran is the personification of the peace on Earth. What an irony, eh?

No, dear, unlike the US media/govt. propaganda that you have been obviously over-exposed to, they don't want to kill you, nor they are coming for you, nor they are trying to destroy your way of life in order to impose theirs. All they want is... that the US leave them alone and not bully them.

There are few countries in this world that openly defy the US and their dominance and military and economical power, and Iran happens to be one of these. That has been their "crime" since their revolution. And that is why the US supported their good boy the dictator Saddam in his invasion on Iran back in 80's, among other supplied him with the chemicals with which to gas Iranians.

(btw, so long so Trump is in power there, I am definitely not visiting the US again)


And it is a minor thing, but they don't want to kill you, they want to convert you. (or kill you if you do not :D )

The Caliphate of USA would be their idea, not the wasteland of USA full of dead.


Edit, to put it in context, if I had to choose up sides I would go with USA every time, so no brainwashing or false perspective.



yeah, watch out, Iranians are coming to convert ya all... or plan "B", to kill ya all

Just see, it becomes obvious why God (the Christian one, of course, what other one can there be anyway) sent Trump to the WH.

Otherwise the US is pretty much brainwashed too. As so is in principle everywhere else, in this or that degree, with everybody else who identifies with that particular set of conditions that one is being born and raised into.


You may want to actually read the Koran, then you could do sarcasm.


(you could start with something like Quran (8:38-39)
Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven... And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Translation from Quran))

And I am British Baptist btw, but long lapsed


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:02 pm 
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moby wrote:
You may want to actually read the Koran, then you could do sarcasm.


(you could start with something like Quran (8:38-39)
Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven... And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Translation from Quran))

And I am British Baptist btw, but long lapsed


I'd also like to read the Christian Bible for context.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
moby wrote:
You may want to actually read the Koran, then you could do sarcasm.


(you could start with something like Quran (8:38-39)
Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven... And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Translation from Quran))

And I am British Baptist btw, but long lapsed


I'd also like to read the Christian Bible for context.


You will find similar in the old testament. Except of course they would not be Christians then. The Pauliene bible was toned down considerably


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:33 pm 
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moby wrote:
You may want to actually read the Koran, then you could do sarcasm.


These, along Judaism, are both Abrahamic religions, and both share the same kind of history of the faith being spread by the holly book in one hand and the sword in the other.

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
(Matthew 10:34)

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must die. In this way you will purge the evil from Israel.
Deuteronomy17:12 NLT

I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.
Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT
and so on and so on

But I didn't really intend to enter a silly swimming pool contest with you, Christianity vs. Islam. Dry stool vs. wet stool. Take your pick, whatever fits best to your taste.

My sarcasm still stands. Unless you can exercise somewhat sane argument with the reason and logic that Iran is the country that is actually geared on converting the Christian part of the world to Islam or otherwise killing.
Go, entertain me... and so far you have done a fine job.


Last edited by Prema on Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Prema wrote:
moby wrote:
You may want to actually read the Koran, then you could do sarcasm.


These are both Abrahamic religions, and both share the same kind of history of the faith being spread by the holly book in one hand and the sword in the other.

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
(Matthew 10:34)

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must die. In this way you will purge the evil from Israel.
Deuteronomy17:12 NLT

I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.
Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT
and so on and so on

But I didn't really intend to enter a silly swimming pool contest with you, Christianity vs. Islam. Dry stool vs. wet stool. Take your pick, whatever fits best to your taste.

My sarcasm still stands. Unless you can exercise somewhat sane argument with the reason and logic that Iran is the country that is actually geared on converting the Christian part of the world to Islam or otherwise killing.
Go, entertain me... and so far you have done a fine job.


I don't even understand your question.

You had a rant about the instruction of convert or kill, which I directed you to on of several passages that can not be misinterpreted. What are you asking and what relevance are passages from another book to it?

My statement was the 'aim' is first to convert, or if not then kill. Where is the ambiguity in that?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Ok guys. This is going wildly off topic, and some posts have stepped slightly over the line, but it's edged there and determinely who did it first is impossible to judge.

Let's get back to the discussion without making sweeping generalisations about religions or nations, be it Christianity or Islam, United States or Iran.

All of those have millions upon millions of people, all have examples of people who have done good, and people who have done terrible things.


Also, no one is likely to suddenly change their mind about it, so you are all likely to be shouting at a brick wall.

Let's bring this back to the topic at hand - but if the discussion drifts back this way then, regretably as none of the mods like to stifle discussion, we will probably have to lock the thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Mod Aqua wrote:
Ok guys. This is going wildly off topic, and some posts have stepped slightly over the line, but it's edged there and determinely who did it first is impossible to judge.

Let's get back to the discussion without making sweeping generalisations about religions or nations, be it Christianity or Islam, United States or Iran.

All of those have millions upon millions of people, all have examples of people who have done good, and people who have done terrible things.


Also, no one is likely to suddenly change their mind about it, so you are all likely to be shouting at a brick wall.

Let's bring this back to the topic at hand - but if the discussion drifts back this way then, regretably as none of the mods like to stifle discussion, we will probably have to lock the thread.


OK Sorry.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:02 pm 
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moby wrote:
I don't even understand your question.

That's perhaps because I didn't ask any.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Prema wrote:
moby wrote:
I don't even understand your question.

That's perhaps because I didn't ask any.


Well in that case I did not understand the post. Never mind. let it go now we have been pinged. :thumbup:


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