planetf1.com

It is currently Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:46 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules






Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:36 pm
Posts: 32
Hi all, I was just wondering (after a debate in work) can anyone convince me that the iPhone can do anything better than a top spec android phone? Be good to hear from any Apple users!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 4219
When most people seem to just use their phones for playing the odd wee game on the way to work, checking facebook and twitter and taking the odd photo, I've never got why it mattered.

I prefer Android myself. Apple devices look pretty, but they cost a lot more and seem to have less apps with a lot of the cooler apps not being on Apple.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:04 pm 
Online

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6562
You'd better search for mobile users that had both phones.

I never owned an iPhone, they look maybe more polished, but I disagree with other things. There is more freedom with Android, you are not bound by the iTunes and you don't need to enter your credit card details in order to start an account. My girlfriend couldn't get her pics to her other pc in a flash because it wasn't easy, it went through some Apple application and so on.

I'm happy with Android, got an LG G3 (which is a top range phone) that should last for a long time, so no complaints.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:44 pm
Posts: 1013
For me, it's Android hands down - mainly because I don't believe in forking out £40 a month on a mobile phone. I have a Motorola Moto G which does everything I want it to and costs me less than £20 a month for unlimited data minutes and texts. Have had the phone for a year and given it some pretty rough treatment and it's just as functional as it was on day 1. While I can't say a lot about IOS products because I've never owned one, knowing people that have them the only thing that would make me consider moving over would be if I had other apple products in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, Apple make good quality products. However they sucker people in with their very clever 'smug' marketing that leads people to believe they are the best because they're the most expensive. Having an iPhone nowadays is like having a designer shirt, compared to having an Android phone which is like wearing a H&M shirt. Both do the same job, both look nice and are made with roughly the same components - but you don't brag about your H&M shirt.

Not everyone buys an iPhone purely because of image but a lot of people do. Quite frankly if they want to spend that sort of money on a phone then that's up to them, I just know my money is better spent elsewhere.

_________________
Pick 10 Competition:
2013 - 10th
2014 - 9th
2015 - 6th


Pick 10 Podiums:
1st Place: USA 2012, Japan 2013, USA 2015
2nd Place: Bahrain 2015, Barcelona 2015
3rd Place: China 2014


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:38 pm
Posts: 2554
This is a question that will get different answers depending on what phone the replier has.
Just buy an iPhone. ;)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 3207
Couldn't you have picked a slightly less divisive conflict for a discussion about? Like Israel vs Palestine for instance?

iPhone vs Android is about the most boring discussions you will see anywhere on the Internet. And I say this as a lover of technology, as someone who programs for these devices, but the fact is that there is never a conclusion to them. Just about anyone who cares about the discussion has the narrowest point of view you can imagine. They'll trot out the same arguments time and time again, on both sides, as soon as you see a news story with an "iPhone vs Android" angle, or a release of a new iPhone or flagphone Android handset you know that the comments are going to be regurgitating carbon copies of the same old discussion over and over again.

The short answer to the question: 'Should I buy an Android phone or an iPhone as my next handset?' is the same answer to the question: 'Which type of phone do you have at the moment?'

Neither one is significantly superior to the other, and due to the cost of converting to a new operating system (buying all your software again, setting everything up, adapting your workflow etc etc) it would require one to be an order of magnitude better than the other and neither system is.

Of course, if you don't have many apps, don't require much setting up and don't really have a workflow to adapt then it means you're not a power user and it doesn't really matter which system you have which then has the follow up question of: "Well are you generally happy or unhappy with your current device?" If the answer is yes then stick with what you know! If you're unhappy then switch.

Often you will see stupid arguments come up in these discussions - such as "It really bugs me that I can't put my icons wherever I want on my iPhone screen, they always fill in from the top" and someone will reply "You can on Android, switch to Android!"

Yes, there are things that one phone can do that the other can't, and things they do much better than the other. But on the whole theses things are usually tiny things and clearly "putting your icons wherever you want" is insignificant to say "I have my iPhone set up to sync my documents over iCloud with my iPad and my MacBook and I've been using this system for years"

In that situation switching to Android would gain you something trivial but in return you'd have to port over your whole cloud documentation system to another service which is not going to be easy.

So stick with whatever you have. Unless you're not happy with it, in which case switch.


Ah... but what if I don't have a smart phone.

Well first, what was life like being cryogenically frozen for the last 7 years? But second, it doesn't really matter. What do most of your friends have? If most of your friends have iPhones, get an iPhone as then you'll be able to iMessage them more easily. If most of your friends have Android phones, get an Android one as Hangouts is far better integrated into the OS whereas it's a third party app on iOS and the last time I tried to use it on there it was horrible.


No no no, I want to be more specific. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the two operating systems / devices?!

Well, that's now a difficult question. 18 months ago it would have been easy, but with the release of iOS 8 and Android L these two updates to the OS have added the other's biggest unique selling point to themselves.

In all the fanfare of stupid stupid stupid unbelievably stupid smart watches, it went largely unreported what was the most significant upgrade to iOS this year: Extensions.

For years Android apps have been able to integrate into each other really easily meaning that you could exchange information between apps really easily. Apps from different developers could talk to each other whereas on iOS they were all cut off from each other in their own pocket universe. iOS 8 changed that. Now app writers can make their app load up inside another app. You want to be able to translate webpages in Safari? Well now a translation app can load up in Safari and translate it for you. You want to apple instagram effects to your photos in the photo app? Well now Instagram can make their app work inside the photo app (I don't know if they have or not, but they could)

And because it's newer it's actually probably better than in Android, and it's certainly more secure.

Of course, iOS 8 also inherited the ability to frequently crash from Android 2.2 but hey, baby steps.

Also, Safari on iOS is the Internet Explorer 6 of the modern age, but that's another story that's not really relevant here.


What iOS used to have over Android was it's consistency of design through all of its apps, even most of the third party ones. If you loaded up an iOS app, you inevitably knew what to do with it because they all followed the same design principles. Part of the reason for this is that if you wrote a crap-app, you were probably a lousy programmer so would be forced into using the dot to dot method of constructing an app using Apple's tools, whereas Android operated a "do whatever the hell you feel like doing" approach.

The result was confusing and inconsistent apps, and generally a terrible ugly UI.

The UI got better with Android 4, but it still wasn't especially mind blowing.

With the new Android, Android L, Android 5... well Google has written about the most anally retentive document in the history of mankind for describing how to design your apps. It's called Material design, and - so long as you don't ever, ever, think about reading the Material design documentation and wondering what sort of human being wrote it (clue, I don't think they did, Skynet is upon us) - it's probably now the best looking and most consistent UI on any of the mobile OSs.

So when it comes to operating systems, Android and iOS are more equal than they have ever been.



But that's not the whole story, what about the hardware?

Flagship Android devices will always have better hardware than the Apple devices in terms of their specs. In a blind study of photographs taken on smartphones, the Galaxy Note 4 comprehensively wupped the iPhone 6+, the phone that loads of famous photographers wrote articles on about how great their trip to Iceland was with the new iPhone (that somehow they managed to squeeze in just before the iPhone 6 got released... I'm-not-say-Apple-paid-them)

The screens are higher resolution (the iPhone 6+ has 1080x1920 compared to the Note 4's 1440 x 2560 on a similar screensize) the iPhone 6 has 750 x 1334 on a 4.7 inch (most top Android phones have 1080 x 1920 at this screen size now)

The Android phones have faster processors and more RAM, although Android handles multitasking differently so uses more of the RAM, the iPhone sort of fudges multitasking. Because iOS is designed for specific chips it also means iOS can perform better on slower chips. Broadly speaking there is little to choose on performance, and to be honest, unless you are playing games on them you will never test them.

To put into context the power of these chips though, the Nexus 9 has both a more powerful CPU and GPU than the Xbox 360.

iPhones used to lead on style, but of course this is personal taste. The iPhone 4 is possibly the best looking smartphone there has ever better been. he iPhone 5 was nice too, but the new iPhones - in my opinion - are really ugly. And I'm not sure why Apple is obsessed with making their phones thinner and thinner now they are well under a centimetre thick. Is having a phone that is 0.5mm thinner really more important than 3 extra hours of battery life?

Oh yeah, battery life. By all accounts Android devices, particular Samsung who fit batteries you could jump start a battleship with, have much better battery life.

Hardware probably gets a nod in Android's direction, but it's close.

Finally, we have the battle of the ecosystems.

iOS has more apps. And higher quality apps. And apps get released first on iOS because they are the most likely to be parted with their money. If apps are what you care about, specifically new apps, then iOS is the place to go.

However, all the big apps.... I'm talking things like Facebook, Dropbox, Skype - anything that a large number of people use... they will be on both platforms. If you don't release your app for both Android and iOS then you're a fool. But, of course release it to iOS users first. They are generally more affluent, they are forced into having an active credit card attached to their account to be able to use the App Store and iOS makes it oh so easy to buy apps. An in app purchases. And more in app purchases.

The number of iPhone/iPad parents of 5 - 8 year old children who have bought computer science students Ferraris while they are still at college because their kid just kept buying in game premium content by pawing away at the screen ....well I'm going to say it's high as there isn't actually any data for it, but we probably all know someone whose 7 year old got them a $500 Appstore bill.

But yeah, on ecosystem, iPhones get the nudge. But again, it's only a slight edge.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 8064
Apple is all about entrapment. You pay well over the odds for the item, then when others get free or cheap apps an downloads, you pay again. I will never buy an item without a slot and/or usb and preferably exchangeable OS if I dont like it

Iphone is good, but not 4 times (cost) as good as an equally good phone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3653
Android. Huge range of phones. Nuff said.

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:31 am
Posts: 2088
I love the android phones - none of the proprietary nonsense. However, I also have an iPad because there are certain Apple things I like, not available elsewhere. So it kind of works out as the best of both worlds. Meanwhile, everyone I know owns an iphone and they swear by them. I have used my siblings phones a lot and they are great phones in terms of usability. My only beef are the restrictions implemented by Apple preventing you from doing things you are used to doing on a PC (if you have a Mac, this may not be as worrisome).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1836
Personally, because I don't need a hugely flashy phone for what I use it for (essentially just texting, twitter and spotify), I prefer using android because of the range of devices meaning I picked up a new mid-range phone for about £100 last November (the excellent Motorola Moto G). I can't reasonably afford the kinds of prices an iPhone sets you back, although a co-worker was letting me play with his i6+, and it's a beautiful bit of kit that I would consider buying if I could afford it (and I didn't hate iOS with the fire of 1000 suns due to the awful UX).
That being said, when I tried to update to Android 5.0, it tells me that it cannot find the security keys, and crashes the entire system after it boots up, so me and Android aren't getting on at the moment.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5227
Imo, the only thing you'd want an iphone for is to look trendy or use the messenger with other iphone users. But with most phone deals giving free texts and things like whatsapp or wechat, theninly reason anyone could have is to look trendy!

I'd think the choice is between android and windows.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 8064
(huggybear + minchy)

I wonder how many IPhone owners actually use a fraction of the "special features" iPhone is sold for?

Very few I should think. The biggest advantage seems to be the ability to say "I have an iPhone"



(not saying the iPhone its self is bad here)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:38 pm
Posts: 2554
I see the hate is building.. I expected that. :nod:
Personally I really don't like PC's and Windows, therefor I have had Mac for a very long time. I am used to Apple so for me it's the obvious choice.
Look trendy? I don't give a **** about that as I am not one of those that have their smartphone glued to their hand 24/7.

moby wrote:
(not saying the iPhone its self is bad here)


Good to hear that you don't dislike the thelephone....just the people using it. ;)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 8064
Mr-E wrote:
I see the hate is building.. I expected that. :nod:
Personally I really don't like PC's and Windows, therefor I have had Mac for a very long time. I am used to Apple so for me it's the obvious choice.
Look trendy? I don't give a **** about that as I am not one of those that have their smartphone glued to their hand 24/7.

moby wrote:
(not saying the iPhone its self is bad here)


Good to hear that you don't dislike the thelephone....just the people using it. ;)



It seems you are one of the people Iphone and Mac are intended for. Good for you, you obviously like them and have a use for them. No problem at all to me (even if it was any of my business, which it is not). As I keep saying though, You are not the sort of person I am indicating with my "complaints" The iPhone and Mac are good items, no doubt about it.

It is the person who gets "duped" into getting them due to marketing I sympathize with. Like the person who lives in a city and drives 3 miles a day being told he must have a 4X4 monster because his friends have one


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5227
One of the things I don't like about apple products in gerenal (but isn't an issue with android or my windows phone (don't know about other miscrosoft or windows devices)) is they seem to have really bad WiFi pickup which would be a big turn off for me straight away. This is from my own experience with customers who struggle to get a decent signal with the WiFi at work whereas we literally never have a problem with android or windows.

Another thing I don't like about iPhones is their keyboard. It doesn't change between upper and lower case letter when the shift I used, nor does it have a caps lock type feature. Again this is an issue iphone users have at work with entering the password for our WiFi which is 9E5C1B34CC, so on iPhones you need to push 'no.'-9-shift-e-'no.'-5-shift-c etc etc with no indication if it's upper or lower case other than the shift key being highlighted. The number of times iphone users complain the WiFi isn't working when its just they haven't entered the password correctly. Admittedly that's a combination of the OS and the people using it, but its a fairly simple thing that they've never changed.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 2622
Personally I prefer the Android. Unfortunately I am stuck with an iPhone. It's a company phone and company policy to use iPhone, apparently due to better security. I had both a Galaxy S1 and S3 before th nect 'upgrade' was an iPhone 4s.
Initially I had the issue of navigation but am now quite used to it. I just find that the Galaxy is more 'flexible' to use and, wth Android, there is better access to apps. Don't dislke the iPhone but do prefer Andriod.

_________________
Where I'm going, I don't need roads


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 4798
minchy wrote:
One of the things I don't like about apple products in gerenal (but isn't an issue with android or my windows phone (don't know about other miscrosoft or windows devices)) is they seem to have really bad WiFi pickup which would be a big turn off for me straight away. This is from my own experience with customers who struggle to get a decent signal with the WiFi at work whereas we literally never have a problem with android or windows.

Another thing I don't like about iPhones is their keyboard. It doesn't change between upper and lower case letter when the shift I used, nor does it have a caps lock type feature. Again this is an issue iphone users have at work with entering the password for our WiFi which is 9E5C1B34CC, so on iPhones you need to push 'no.'-9-shift-e-'no.'-5-shift-c etc etc with no indication if it's upper or lower case other than the shift key being highlighted. The number of times iphone users complain the WiFi isn't working when its just they haven't entered the password correctly. Admittedly that's a combination of the OS and the people using it, but its a fairly simple thing that they've never changed.

While it's true that the case of the letters on the keyboard doesn't change on iOS, you can shift lock by double tapping on the shift key. For doing a single number if you tap and hold the number key it will will switch to the number keyboard and you can drag up to the number you want and when you release it will go back to the alpha keyboard. The shift lock will cancel when you go to the number keyboard though.

_________________
{Insert clever sig line here}


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5227
I stand corrected on the caps/shift lock then (guess it's people who don't know how to use their phones!), but the shift lock cancelling when you go to the number screen is the issue most people who try to enter our password have issues with!

Its little things like that which I think makes the iphone a little more irritating for something which is an everyday occurrence like entering a case sensitive password that is blocked out on screen, that other phones do well.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1836
moby wrote:
(huggybear + minchy)
I wonder how many IPhone owners actually use a fraction of the "special features" iPhone is sold for?
Very few I should think. The biggest advantage seems to be the ability to say "I have an iPhone"
(not saying the iPhone its self is bad here)


Tbh the ones that I know personally are the kind of people that will constantly tell me that I should buy an iPhone because 'they're the best phones', and get angry when I explain that the SoC my phone uses isn't £250 worse than an iPhone's, and that ADB and sideloading are things I'd rather have than a slightly faster phone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3653
The biggest advantage I can see for having an iPhone, is that you'll never find a petrol service station that won't be able to sell you an accessory.

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1720
I just go for Android simply because it gives me access to phones that are seriously great value for money in comparison to the iphone range.

_________________
Pathfinder


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:36 pm
Posts: 1390
Had 3 iPhones then went to android via a Sony z1 because I was bored.
I am now on an iPhone 6 and I will never be unfaithful again. Enough said imo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 8064
I had a 46 mile rural commute to work, so bought a Porsche. Loved it it did the job wonderfully.
I now live in a coastal town and am retired. I have an I10. I believe the Porsche is a far better car.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1836
runningman67 wrote:
Had 3 iPhones then went to android via a Sony z1 because I was bored.
I am now on an iPhone 6 and I will never be unfaithful again. Enough said imo


That's the downside of android phones, there is so much variation in quality. Get a Samsung, or a Motorola or a high end HTC and you're good. Literally anything else is terrible. The Sony that I had a few years back snapped the charging port off the motherboard after 6 weeks because it was so poorly manufactured.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5227
huggybear wrote:
runningman67 wrote:
Had 3 iPhones then went to android via a Sony z1 because I was bored.
I am now on an iPhone 6 and I will never be unfaithful again. Enough said imo


That's the downside of android phones, there is so much variation in quality. Get a Samsung, or a Motorola or a high end HTC and you're good. Literally anything else is terrible. The Sony that I had a few years back snapped the charging port off the motherboard after 6 weeks because it was so poorly manufactured.

It's the dame story with windows phones too, Nokia's and Samsung's are great but HTC's just seem to not handle the OS. But saying that, if someone got a windows phone, I'd expect them to get a high spec Nokia, and I someone got an android phone, I'd expect them to get a high spec Samsung. IPhones aren't immune from this either, some models can't handle the newer OS so it's best to get a higher spec model.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:07 pm
Posts: 7769
For me Android up until recently looked ugly. Now with the KitKat Google got rid of that ugly modern look and with lolipop made it actually quite pretty. Too bad many OEMs still uses ugly skins. Nowadays stock Android GUI might be even nicer than iOS.

_________________
eeee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: iPhone vs Android
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:08 pm
Posts: 1213
I've got both - Samsung for personal and iPhone for the business, I don't do much with them other than infrequent browsing, email, some pics and maybe a bit of kindle etc. When it comes to using it as a phone I've lost count of the times I've wanted to smash the iPhone to bits.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group