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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:43 pm 
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In all seriousness, how are the Welsh players going to cope with training? Lions training is renowned for being on a different level of slickness and intensity.

The Welsh players are going to walk in having spent the past several months dossing about in the nether regions of the Pro-12, most of them out of form, and quite a few of them still getting over injuries - and yet they expect to be up to the standard of the elite English and Irish players who've just been playing Champions Cup knock-outs?

I fear the English and Irish boys will have to bite their tongues after a few days of training reveal the stark truth.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:44 pm 
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MrDominator wrote:
In all seriousness, how are the Welsh players going to cope with training? Lions training is renowned for being on a different level of slickness and intensity.

The Welsh players are going to walk in having spent the past several months dossing about in the nether regions of the Pro-12, most of them out of form, and quite a few of them still getting over injuries - and yet they expect to be up to the standard of the elite English and Irish players who've just been playing Champions Cup knock-outs?

I fear the English and Irish boys will have to bite their tongues after a few days of training reveal the stark truth.


Back on form mate. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:44 pm 
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This is getting quite sad now.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:44 pm 
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MrDominator wrote:
In all seriousness, how are the Welsh players going to cope with training? Lions training is renowned for being on a different level of slickness and intensity.

The Welsh players are going to walk in having spent the past several months dossing about in the nether regions of the Pro-12, most of them out of form, and quite a few of them still getting over injuries - and yet they expect to be up to the standard of the elite English and Irish players who've just been playing Champions Cup knock-outs?

I fear the English and Irish boys will have to bite their tongues after a few days of training reveal the stark truth.

Don't worry Gats will no doubt protect them and give them an easy ride.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:45 pm 
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c69 wrote:
MrDominator wrote:
In all seriousness, how are the Welsh players going to cope with training? Lions training is renowned for being on a different level of slickness and intensity.

The Welsh players are going to walk in having spent the past several months dossing about in the nether regions of the Pro-12, most of them out of form, and quite a few of them still getting over injuries - and yet they expect to be up to the standard of the elite English and Irish players who've just been playing Champions Cup knock-outs?

I fear the English and Irish boys will have to bite their tongues after a few days of training reveal the stark truth.

Don't worry Gats will no doubt protect them and give them an easy ride.


I imagine that having worked under Gatland for the past 8 years, and with five of them having toured with the Lions previously, this unprecedented Lions training intensity will come as a terrific shock....


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:46 pm 
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c69 wrote:
MrDominator wrote:
In all seriousness, how are the Welsh players going to cope with training? Lions training is renowned for being on a different level of slickness and intensity.

The Welsh players are going to walk in having spent the past several months dossing about in the nether regions of the Pro-12, most of them out of form, and quite a few of them still getting over injuries - and yet they expect to be up to the standard of the elite English and Irish players who've just been playing Champions Cup knock-outs?

I fear the English and Irish boys will have to bite their tongues after a few days of training reveal the stark truth.

Don't worry Gats will no doubt protect them and give them an easy ride.


Of course he will. He's got is well paid Wales job to think about. He can't lose the Welsh dressing room. Not only will he give them an easy ride, he'll then pack the Lions team with undeserving Welshmen.

Am I doing it right?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:53 pm 
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I've bitten my tongue the last couple of days, and perhaps this is the wrong thread for it. But the pointing of fingers at Owens for being "lucky", "undeserving" and "favouritism" is getting f**k ridiculous.

Keith Wood said last night that he was "by miles" the best hooker at this years 6N's.

Sean Fitzpatrick said that it was a shootout between Hartley and Best for the thir hooker spot, because George and Owens were the standout hookers from the 6Ns.

I think I will accept their opinions on the subject.

Oh and Wood was wanking furiously over Moriarty.

Oh and Gavin Hastings was disappointed but understood Gatland's choices. He displayed great dignity.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
c69 wrote:
MrDominator wrote:
In all seriousness, how are the Welsh players going to cope with training? Lions training is renowned for being on a different level of slickness and intensity.

The Welsh players are going to walk in having spent the past several months dossing about in the nether regions of the Pro-12, most of them out of form, and quite a few of them still getting over injuries - and yet they expect to be up to the standard of the elite English and Irish players who've just been playing Champions Cup knock-outs?

I fear the English and Irish boys will have to bite their tongues after a few days of training reveal the stark truth.

Don't worry Gats will no doubt protect them and give them an easy ride.


Of course he will. He's got is well paid Wales job to think about. He can't lose the Welsh dressing room. Not only will he give them an easy ride, he'll then pack the Lions team with undeserving Welshmen.

Am I doing it right?


And of course Wales were 5th and Scotland beat Ireland and Wales.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:48 am 
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So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:08 am 
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Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:23 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.


Ok, JTB, let's see that Welsh defense having to play Ball at 6, Webb on the Wing, Whoever back up JD at 13, and no Liam Williams, or Halfpenny and say Priestland at 15. I am sure it would be ait tight right. It is bullshit. It is an excuse to justify the bias.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:35 am 
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Deadtigers wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.


Ok, JTB, let's see that Welsh defense having to play Ball at 6, Webb on the Wing, Whoever back up JD at 13, and no Liam Williams, or Halfpenny and say Priestland at 15. I am sure it would be ait tight right. It is bullshit. It is an excuse to justify the bias.


Eh, this is what a rearguard action should look like when you are suffering immensely from injuries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq3zOS5neJE

We lost Liam Williams, Halam Amos and Scott Williams, and ended up with a scrumhalf on the wing and Priestland as our last line of defence...and Alex Cuthbert somewhere on the pitch, so that was instantly like playing with 14 men.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:42 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.


46 36 39


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:43 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.


Ok, JTB, let's see that Welsh defense having to play Ball at 6, Webb on the Wing, Whoever back up JD at 13, and no Liam Williams, or Halfpenny and say Priestland at 15. I am sure it would be ait tight right. It is bullshit. It is an excuse to justify the bias.


Eh, this is what a rearguard action should look like when you are suffering immensely from injuries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq3zOS5neJE

We lost Liam Williams, Halam Amos and Scott Williams, and ended up with a scrumhalf on the wing and Priestland as our last line of defence...and Alex Cuthbert somewhere on the pitch, so that was instantly like playing with 14 men.


2 wings and center. no backrowers and no first choice OC. But yeah great performance.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:54 am 
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Only seen the squad now and in general it looks good but two Scots while AWJ and Moriarty are in is a bit sickening, AWJ has been shyte by his own standards and who the fúck is Moriarty? Ian Henderson is a lucky man as are Kruis and Lawes. Richie and Jonny Gray have been better than all of them this season.

Scotland deserve more representation on merit. I'm disgusted.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:03 am 
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Denirostaxidriver wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.


46 36 39


The Kiwis put 30-40 on pretty much everyone. I don't think it actually counts as capitulating conceding that to the All Blacks. Even when Ireland beat them, they still managed 29 points. As I've noted previously, Gatland's gameplan with Wales was to try and stifle NZ in attack. It obviously failed, but I reckon it's still a better bet than the alternative (that is, like Ireland, try to outscore NZ in a high scoring game).


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:12 am 
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Apologies if already posted, some rant on FB

https://www.facebook.com/halde.pottinge ... 6877227870

Halde Pottinger wrote:
I have kept quiet regarding yesterday's monstrosity at midday, hoping that maybe the feelings of utter utter frustration and confusion would subside.
But now after reading even more, I just don't get it.
Scotland can and should feel incredibly aggrieved. YES I am Scottish, YES I am biased...but come the F*&K ON!!!
- Highest ever WORLD ranking...THREE places above Wales and just ONE below Ireland!
- Whatever way you want to look at it, Scotland finished fourth in the Six Nations OR joint second...BEATING Ireland AND Wales in matches we never looked like out of control in.
- Scotland had the third highest points tally, 20 more than Wales and only 4 less than Ireland.
- We Scored FOURTEEN tries...joint second top try scorers only two behind England and SIX more than Wales who only scored two more than wooden spooners Italy.
- Scotland had the player of the tournament.
- Lost by only six points to France after losing our captain in 24th minute and Hardie within minutes of being a impact sub.
- Beat Wales by SIXTEEN POINTS, THREE clear scores...in terms of tier one rugby...that is a DEMOLITION!
- ONLY team to have a clean-sheet.
And after all of the above, Scotland has TWO players and Wales and Ireland, again who we both comfortably beat, have TWENTY THREE!!!
I love rugby discussion...can anyone try and justify all the above to me...?!?!
Who else should feel aggrieved?
-Simon Zebo, Richie Gray, Mike Brown and John Barclay four of the biggest ball carriers this season, all four tried and tested international players.
- Jonny Gray for obvious reasons that WORLD rugby knows!
- Donnacha Ryan, Dylan Hartely, James Haskel and Joe Launchbury four of the best tacklers this season.
- Hamish Watson - had the Welsh back row on toast!
- Jamie Heaslip - Hugely consistent the past four seasons for club and country.
- Zander Fagerson - Will end up being Glasgow player of season and young Scottish player of season after a fantastic year...at least he has actually STARTED a match for his country unlike Sinckler who doesn't get into Quins starting too often.
Excuses Gatland is coming out with today are horrendous, effectively citing the England match as a huge deciding factor, Sarries/Glasgow, the fact that Scotland's players can't travel and no Scottish representation in the coaching squad!
1. Why not ask holiday bound COTTER...who is a f*&king KIWI!!!!
2. Teams not allowed to have off-days...? Not as if Wales or Ireland ever have them!!! Or we suppose it was allowed when they came to Murrayfield this year?!
3. Maitland/Taylor both play for Sarries!
4. Scotland has a sound record down Southern-Hemi, better than others...ask Australia and Argentina!
Did Scotland not nearly make the World Cup semis two years ago?!?! How did everyone else do?!?!?
Can someone let me know why the following players were selected!??!?!?!!!
(I put my own personal choices in brackets!)
Leigh Halfpenny (Mike Brown)
George North (Chris Ashton) :lol:
Jonathan Davies (Alex Dunbar)
Jared Payne (Garry Ringrose)
Dan Biggar (Finn Russell) :lol: :lol:
Kyle Sinckler (Zander Fagerson)
Ken Owens (Dylan Hartley)
Iain Henderson (Joe Launchbury)
AWJ (Jonny Gray)
George Kruis (Devin Toner)
Taulupe Faletau (Nathan Hughes)
Sam Warburton (Hamish Watson)
When Warburton is declared unfit...well even MORE unfit before the squad leaves, who is left to captain..AWJ!!!! Who did NOTHING this Season for Wales and was injured a lot for Ospreys!!
All the pundits are wondering why the bookies of got such short offs on NZ doing ANOTHER whitewash...LOOK AT THE SQUAD...Hansen won't be able to keep a straight face!!!
I for one hope the "British and Irish Lions" get stuffed, which they will, and I look forward to watching Scotland's summer tour.
Sadly the only thing which will spark my interest in this, is if injuries occur and players worthy of a place get called up...which is a horrible way to look at it.
Sickening....


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:29 am 
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Scotland's first win against us in 10 or so matches is certainly taking on quite the mythical status. A demolition, no less. A victory for the ages. Perhaps similar kudos should he attached to their victory over the Irish, and ours (although Ireland have only beaten us once in the last five, and three out of the last 10) given that the Irish are clearly a level above us. Makes me wonder why the selections of Rory Best Meltdowns Eva, Iain Played Lock for His Club Twice This Season Henderson, Sean Horribly Out Of Form O'Brien and Jared Kiwi Poach Payne haven't received similar levels of criticism and rage? Most curious.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:16 am 
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henry wrote:
Scotland's first win against us in 10 or so matches is certainly taking on quite the mythical status. A demolition, no less. A victory for the ages. Perhaps similar kudos should he attached to their victory over the Irish, and ours (although Ireland have only beaten us once in the last five, and three out of the last 10) given that the Irish are clearly a level above us. Makes me wonder why the selections of Rory Best Meltdowns Eva, Iain Played Lock for His Club Twice This Season Henderson, Sean Horribly Out Of Form O'Brien and Jared Kiwi Poach Payne haven't received similar levels of criticism and rage? Most curious.



Yeah but , no but, yeah but, no but.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:00 am 
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henry wrote:
Scotland's first win against us in 10 or so matches is certainly taking on quite the mythical status. A demolition, no less. A victory for the ages. Perhaps similar kudos should he attached to their victory over the Irish, and ours (although Ireland have only beaten us once in the last five, and three out of the last 10) given that the Irish are clearly a level above us. Makes me wonder why the selections of Rory Best Meltdowns Eva, Iain Played Lock for His Club Twice This Season Henderson, Sean Horribly Out Of Form O'Brien and Jared Kiwi Poach Payne haven't received similar levels of criticism and rage? Most curious.


Who's got two thumbs, beat New Zealand this season and doesn't give a shit what some chap on the internet thinks about him?
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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:05 am 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:07 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.

How much more is a shitload more?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:12 am 
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OptimisticJock wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.

How much more is a shitload more?

2 wheelbarrows full


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:18 am 
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Gatland made a lions selection and as a result the scots(and to a lesser extent kiwis, irish and english) have personally attacked the welsh people/culture? Even if you can't fathom why there is more welsh than scots(you must be clinically insane, as most scots are) its pathetic at best


eh?

How is slagging off the selection policy of a NZer being anti-Welsh?

Nobody is having a go at the culture or people of Wales, however the majority the non-Welsh are querying the professionalism of Warren Gatland over his selection of out of form or injured Welsh players for the British & Irish Lions.

As a neutral so far the Welsh reposts seem to boil down to

"Yeah they're not so good at the minute but they were Lions last time" (add in the bit about 'Winning Tour' here for greater effect) which when you think about it doesn't really count for much as it was Gatland who picked the side last time as well and 4 years is a long time in rugby

"Scotland have been good this year but have been shite in the decade preceding this" - which is correct but the Lions are playing in the next couple of months or so and are not time warping back to play five years ago

"Clive Woodward did the same favouring out of form English over in form Welsh" - yes I agree, completely correct and he was a total and utter tit, look at the results.

"The Scottish didn't have representation on the selection panel because their coach insulted Gatland by choosing to go on the Scottish tour" - hmmm, not sure about this one, pretty weak.

"Gatland has limited time to pull together a side and needs to select players that can adapt to Gatlandball, so 50/50 calls will go for the Welsh" - yeah and teams coached by Gatland have a stellar record against the AB's havn't they? I think here is the big question - why was Gatland picked in the first place and here you once again get the circular arguments 'because he won last time'.

So nothing against the Welsh people or the Welsh culture.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:18 am 
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You Londoners are fucking obsessed with wheelbarrows.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:23 am 
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OptimisticJock wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
So Scotland lost their first and second choice FB, lost a center, had to play a SH on wing, lost two backrowers so that a lock had to play 6 and was on the Road at Tickets and still scored over 20 despite losing by 40. Meanwhile Wales is at home to England and can't break 20 points.

But yeah failed to perform in a big game. And the Warriors have done more in the Pro12 and ECC than any Welsh side the last 5 years. But they couldn't beat the reigning ECC and Aviva Champs. So Gats has an excuse to select Moriarty and the like.


Tbf, the Weegies have shitload more cash than any of the regions. They really should be doing a lot better.

And as noted many times previously, Gatland puts a premium on defence. It's OK to lose, but not to capitulate.

How much more is a shitload more?


The regions are allowed to be shit and the national team is allowed to not win in the summer and autumn perpetually — the Os lost to Treviso a few weeks ago ffs. The no cash/no depth narrative is established. It's why no f**ker watches them.

When your season comes down for 5 games a year, you fluff your lines but the coach is also the Lions coach, you'll do all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify the unjustifiable.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:26 am 
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'Querying the professionalism of Gatland'.

Seems fair. Particularly since he's one of, if not the most, successful coach in the Northern Hemisphere.

I'd definitely question his professionalism. And having been on two previous tours, his ability to understand the culture and ethos of the Lions. Might as well question his desire as well - he's a Kiwi after all...


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:30 am 
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I often come here to try and get a better insight into rugby than I can gather through the popular press, and hear what others say and think.

Come Lions tours it really is completely a complete bag of bullshit on here.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:24 am 
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henry wrote:
'Querying the professionalism of Gatland'.

Seems fair. Particularly since he's one of, if not the most, successful coach in the Northern Hemisphere.

I'd definitely question his professionalism. And having been on two previous tours, his ability to understand the culture and ethos of the Lions. Might as well question his desire as well - he's a Kiwi after all...


At least he has dignity!

Or dysentery, or something else, I can't remember. Correct me H.

Is the NH's most successful coach ever held in such high regard, I wonder?

He's the Lions coach, fronts the Lions selection, and therefore is up there to be criticised. Especially when questionable selection decisions apparently favour his regulars. Stop being so precious.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:24 am 
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MaccTaff wrote:
I often come here to try and get a better insight into rugby than I can gather through the popular press, and hear what others say and think.

Come Lions tours it really is completely a complete bag of bullshit on here.


Agreed. I personally think Scotland was under represented on this tour group, even if Come the test 23 they didn't get a single player in. Would have taken Watson instead of moriaty for a start.

If I was Scots I would find it hard to get too enthusiastic about the lions too with only 2 players going


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:24 am 
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alliswell wrote:
henry wrote:
Scotland's first win against us in 10 or so matches is certainly taking on quite the mythical status. A demolition, no less. A victory for the ages. Perhaps similar kudos should he attached to their victory over the Irish, and ours (although Ireland have only beaten us once in the last five, and three out of the last 10) given that the Irish are clearly a level above us. Makes me wonder why the selections of Rory Best Meltdowns Eva, Iain Played Lock for His Club Twice This Season Henderson, Sean Horribly Out Of Form O'Brien and Jared Kiwi Poach Payne haven't received similar levels of criticism and rage? Most curious.


Who's got two thumbs, beat New Zealand this season and doesn't give a shit what some chap on the internet thinks about him?
Image


Rory, congratulations on captaining Ireland in the last 12 months to wins over England, France, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
Now, who was the last Welsh captain to win a match against any one of these?
And in which era?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:32 am 
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What makes it even worse (see: funnier) is that he extended the squad to account for extra selections, which still didn't include all those Scots. For example, Moriarty was a late extension to the back row, which shows how far Watson is off his radar. Heard Seymour was actually a late pick, so the original touring party on his paper could have conceivably only included Hogg from Scotland. :o


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:32 am 
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GWWG wrote:
henry wrote:
'Querying the professionalism of Gatland'.

Seems fair. Particularly since he's one of, if not the most, successful coach in the Northern Hemisphere.

I'd definitely question his professionalism. And having been on two previous tours, his ability to understand the culture and ethos of the Lions. Might as well question his desire as well - he's a Kiwi after all...


At least he has dignity!

Or dysentery, or something else, I can't remember. Correct me H.

Is the NH's most successful coach ever held in such high regard, I wonder?

He's the Lions coach, fronts the Lions selection, and therefore is up there to be criticised. Especially when questionable selection decisions apparently favour his regulars. Stop being so precious.


See, there's no issue with criticising his selections. I have already said I don't understand the selection of Biggar, Jiffy Jnr and Halfpenny, nor the omission of Launchbury.

No, what I do object to, and find most amusing, is the accusation of shitness, of unprofessionailsm, of hating the Jocks. That he doesn't get the Lions, the ethos. That he has simply, arrogantly and unquestioningly picked his boys. Possibly out of some grand benefit-Wales plan. There's this insinuation that it's oh so clear cut. It's laughable but par for the course. But you boys get your hate on. It's good for giggle. There's been some tantrums for the ages. Some properly embarrassing stuff imo.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:33 am 
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Trostan wrote:
alliswell wrote:
henry wrote:
Scotland's first win against us in 10 or so matches is certainly taking on quite the mythical status. A demolition, no less. A victory for the ages. Perhaps similar kudos should he attached to their victory over the Irish, and ours (although Ireland have only beaten us once in the last five, and three out of the last 10) given that the Irish are clearly a level above us. Makes me wonder why the selections of Rory Best Meltdowns Eva, Iain Played Lock for His Club Twice This Season Henderson, Sean Horribly Out Of Form O'Brien and Jared Kiwi Poach Payne haven't received similar levels of criticism and rage? Most curious.


Who's got two thumbs, beat New Zealand this season and doesn't give a shit what some chap on the internet thinks about him?
Image


Rory, congratulations on captaining Ireland in the last 12 months to wins over England, France, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
Now, who was the last Welsh captain to win a match against any one of these?
And in which era?


GWWG, for precious, see above.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:38 am 
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Trostan wrote:
alliswell wrote:
henry wrote:
Scotland's first win against us in 10 or so matches is certainly taking on quite the mythical status. A demolition, no less. A victory for the ages. Perhaps similar kudos should he attached to their victory over the Irish, and ours (although Ireland have only beaten us once in the last five, and three out of the last 10) given that the Irish are clearly a level above us. Makes me wonder why the selections of Rory Best Meltdowns Eva, Iain Played Lock for His Club Twice This Season Henderson, Sean Horribly Out Of Form O'Brien and Jared Kiwi Poach Payne haven't received similar levels of criticism and rage? Most curious.


Who's got two thumbs, beat New Zealand this season and doesn't give a shit what some chap on the internet thinks about him?
Image


Rory, congratulations on captaining Ireland in the last 12 months to wins over England, France, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
Now, who was the last Welsh captain to win a match against any one of these?
And in which era?


Getting Jenkins, last November. Is there a prize?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:38 am 
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Truth is, Wales have benefited from having the Lions head coach who prefers their players. Italy saved their blushes but Wales are actually the wooden spooners of the Home Nations in this 6N and would have finished bottom in the 5N. Objectively, it's a bit of a bad joke that they have the second highest number of players. Let's be honest, if Gatland was England coach he'd have picked about 6 Welsh tops which is about what they were due.


Last edited by Rugby2023 on Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:39 am 
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While I don't think any of the decisions on their own was a travesty, it's pretty clear overall that the 50:50 calls didn't go with the Scottish players, regardless of how they frame it.

Would personally have had Watson ahead of Tipuric or Moriaty and J Gray or Launchbury ahead of Henderson. Nel and Huw Jones had pretty badly timed injuries. Although the latter would never have had a shot with Jiffy Jr apparently nailed on (was JJ who had to sneak in at the end)


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:40 am 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
While I don't think any of the decisions on their own was a travesty, it's pretty clear overall that the 50:50 calls didn't go with the Scottish players, regardless of how they frame it.

Would personally have had Watson ahead of Tipuric or Moriaty and J Gray or Launchbury ahead of Henderson. Nel and Huw Jones had pretty badly timed injuries. Although the latter would never have had a shot with Jiffy Jr apparently nailed on (was JJ who had to sneak in at the end)

Being injured gave them an easy out for a few players.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:40 am 
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Trostan wrote:
alliswell wrote:
henry wrote:
Scotland's first win against us in 10 or so matches is certainly taking on quite the mythical status. A demolition, no less. A victory for the ages. Perhaps similar kudos should he attached to their victory over the Irish, and ours (although Ireland have only beaten us once in the last five, and three out of the last 10) given that the Irish are clearly a level above us. Makes me wonder why the selections of Rory Best Meltdowns Eva, Iain Played Lock for His Club Twice This Season Henderson, Sean Horribly Out Of Form O'Brien and Jared Kiwi Poach Payne haven't received similar levels of criticism and rage? Most curious.


Who's got two thumbs, beat New Zealand this season and doesn't give a shit what some chap on the internet thinks about him?
Image


Rory, congratulations on captaining Ireland in the last 12 months to wins over England, France, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
Now, who was the last Welsh captain to win a match against any one of these?
And in which era?


Hmmm.

Warburton against England. in the 2015 RWC, at Twickenham.
Warburton against France. 2016 6N.
Gethin Jenkins against South Africa. 2016 Autumn Internationals.
Ryan Jones against Australia 2008.
Ieuan Evans. 1993 Lions Tour.

All bar one in the professional era.

Not sure those stats are going to prove what you think they prove...


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Scots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:41 am 
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As someone who values strategy, tactics and an overarching gameplan above everything else - I welcome Gatland picking players who he feels can adhere to said functions. If, however, that strategy turns out to be totally ineffective, then he should be criticised and moved aside for the next tour. We can ponder over why he's selected Moriarty over Watson, say, but they are as different a BRer can be and Gatland has gone for the player who can play to his strategy.


Lawes over Launchbury is still a head scratcher on those grounds though. :lol:


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