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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:14 pm 
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Btw Sewa, I did fall out of bed the wrong side this morning. I haven't had a drink for six days and the de-pickling process is putting the yips on me.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:15 pm 
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fraz wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:

Are these really Nazis? Or are they just using the #1 method to wind up the Antifas on the other side of the square?


Image

Doesn't seem to be what's happening here.

Do you reckon that guy who punched the woman is really a woman puncher, or was just using the #1 method to wind up the Antifas by punching women?


Milk. Definite Nazi.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Saturnine wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:
True Blue wrote:
I haven't read this thread but i can guess what it is about. A bunch of right and left wing extremists fighting each other. When you go to the extremes it doesn't matter which ideology you follow. It's about control and repression of civil rights. Far left? Far right? THey're both plum.


The Far left, in the case, are against Democracy and Free Speech. The people who are standing up against them aren't "far right"

They are normal people, in the main.


:lol: :lol:

True Blue has got it bang on. Far left & far right are all scumbags. No good ever comes of extremism - whatever the persuasion.


That bloke giving the Nazi salute in the pic posted - surrounded by Trumpers. All "normal people" are they?


Do you understand that "all" and "in the main" do not actually mean the same thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:22 pm 
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True Blue wrote:
I haven't read this thread but i can guess what it is about. A bunch of right and left wing extremists fighting each other. When you go to the extremes it doesn't matter which ideology you follow. It's about control and repression of civil rights. Far left? Far right? THey're both plum.
pretty much but the problem is there where a lot of non extremists at the event and the only reason the right wing extremist where even there was because Antifar where going to attack people attending.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Why the wilful lack of accepting nuance these days?

There probably were white supremacists there, but it doesn't mean that everyone there was a white supremacist.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:31 pm 
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this guy reckons antifa are terrorists and the ex-marine who slapped the crusty porn star is a hero, and he explains why as he calmly reloads his 9mm cartridges..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE42ZhnuDTc

interesting times.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Saturnine wrote:
No good ever comes of extremism - whatever the persuasion.


Abolitionists were extremists. Suffragettes were extremists. The civil rights movement wasn't all Dr King making lovely speeches, it succeeded in part because of the extremist Malcolm X, just as Apartheid was brought to an end by the extremist Nelson Mandela.

The "all extremists are bad" argument is too simplistic IMHO. Some causes warrant taking a position that many consider extreme.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:34 pm 
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fraz wrote:
Saturnine wrote:
No good ever comes of extremism - whatever the persuasion.


Abolitionists were extremists. Suffragettes were extremists. The civil rights movement wasn't all Dr King making lovely speeches, it succeeded in part because of the extremist Malcolm X, just as Apartheid was brought to an end by the extremist Nelson Mandela.

The "all extremists are bad" argument is too simplistic IMHO. Some causes warrant taking a position that many consider extreme.


Like having a President you don't like?


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
Why the wilful lack of accepting nuance these days?

There probably were white supremacists there, but it doesn't mean that everyone there was a white supremacist.


I find the reluctance of the pro Trump fans on here to acknowledge that men doing nazi salutes might possibly be nazis to be quite unsettling.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
fraz wrote:
Saturnine wrote:
No good ever comes of extremism - whatever the persuasion.


Abolitionists were extremists. Suffragettes were extremists. The civil rights movement wasn't all Dr King making lovely speeches, it succeeded in part because of the extremist Malcolm X, just as Apartheid was brought to an end by the extremist Nelson Mandela.

The "all extremists are bad" argument is too simplistic IMHO. Some causes warrant taking a position that many consider extreme.


Like having a President you don't like?


Nope.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:37 pm 
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fraz wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Why the wilful lack of accepting nuance these days?

There probably were white supremacists there, but it doesn't mean that everyone there was a white supremacist.


I find the reluctance of the pro bubblefart fans on here to acknowledge that men doing nazi salutes might possibly be nazis to be quite unsettling.



So ? Is it forbidden to be a Nazi, in the USA ?

I know it is forbidden to be a terrorist ..


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:40 pm 
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fraz wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:

Are these really Nazis? Or are they just using the #1 method to wind up the Antifas on the other side of the square?


Image

Doesn't seem to be what's happening here.

Do you reckon that guy who punched the woman is really a woman puncher, or was just using the #1 method to wind up the Antifas by punching women?

Punching women is only done by Nazis?


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:40 pm 
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waguser wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:
waguser wrote:
Of course to someone who shares a huge swathe of views with Neo Nazis Neo nazis are normal people


What are the views of Neo Nazis? let's have some facts from you.

Some people in the US are trying to defend their constitution and it makes them Nazis?

You are a shining product of your education system, they'd be proud of you.


Tell us about your Final solution for all Muslims including British born and converts again Daccy me oul Bigot!


It's still on the bored, why don't you post it? The whole final solution thing is just in your head.

This is the second time I've challenged you to do this.


Last edited by DAC2016 on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
fraz wrote:
Saturnine wrote:
No good ever comes of extremism - whatever the persuasion.


Abolitionists were extremists. Suffragettes were extremists. The civil rights movement wasn't all Dr King making lovely speeches, it succeeded in part because of the extremist Malcolm X, just as Apartheid was brought to an end by the extremist Nelson Mandela.

The "all extremists are bad" argument is too simplistic IMHO. Some causes warrant taking a position that many consider extreme.


Like having a President you don't like?


that's imposition, not taking a position...


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:43 pm 
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fraz wrote:
Saturnine wrote:
No good ever comes of extremism - whatever the persuasion.


Apartheid was brought to an end by the extremist Nelson Mandela.

.

Rubbish. External economic pressure and internal mellowing of some White leaders led to the end of Apartheid. Mandela sat in a cell on his arse for decades.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
fraz wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Why the wilful lack of accepting nuance these days?

There probably were white supremacists there, but it doesn't mean that everyone there was a white supremacist.


I find the reluctance of the pro bubblefart fans on here to acknowledge that men doing nazi salutes might possibly be nazis to be quite unsettling.



So ? Is it forbidden to be a Nazi, in the USA ?

I know it is forbidden to be a terrorist ..


What? Where have I made that argument?

Sandstorm wrote:
fraz wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:

Are these really Nazis? Or are they just using the #1 method to wind up the Antifas on the other side of the square?


Image

Doesn't seem to be what's happening here.

Do you reckon that guy who punched the woman is really a woman puncher, or was just using the #1 method to wind up the Antifas by punching women?

Punching women is only done by Nazis?


WTF? Seriously some of you lot come up with the weirdest f**k retorts.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:45 pm 
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fraz wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Why the wilful lack of accepting nuance these days?

There probably were white supremacists there, but it doesn't mean that everyone there was a white supremacist.


I find the reluctance of the pro bubblefart fans on here to acknowledge that men doing nazi salutes might possibly be nazis to be quite unsettling.


I'm not a Trump supporter, I've said that numerous times. I just don't like groupthink.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:45 pm 
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TokenSarriesFan wrote:
True Blue wrote:
I haven't read this thread but i can guess what it is about. A bunch of right and left wing extremists fighting each other. When you go to the extremes it doesn't matter which ideology you follow. It's about control and repression of civil rights. Far left? Far right? THey're both plum.
pretty much but the problem is there where a lot of non extremists at the event and the only reason the right wing extremist where even there was because Antifar where going to attack people attending.


:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
fraz wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Why the wilful lack of accepting nuance these days?

There probably were white supremacists there, but it doesn't mean that everyone there was a white supremacist.


I find the reluctance of the pro bubblefart fans on here to acknowledge that men doing nazi salutes might possibly be nazis to be quite unsettling.


I'm not a bubblefart supporter, I've said that numerous times. I just don't like groupthink.


And if you'll point to where I suggested you were, I'll happily apologise.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
fraz wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Why the wilful lack of accepting nuance these days?

There probably were white supremacists there, but it doesn't mean that everyone there was a white supremacist.


I find the reluctance of the pro bubblefart fans on here to acknowledge that men doing nazi salutes might possibly be nazis to be quite unsettling.


I'm not a bubblefart supporter, I've said that numerous times. I just don't like groupthink.


Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Personally I think they should let these people speak at these events.

Freedom of speech means listening to things you don't necessarily agree with (or not necessarily, no one is forcing you to listen). Besides, it's probably good for these alt right guys to get out of their wank pits occasionally.

There's either lots of lines or no lines.

Milo can talk one week and Choudary the next week.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:

Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


Does he or is he just some immature bellend trying to cause a bit of trouble, I suspect the latter


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:15 pm 
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houtkabouter wrote:
Personally I think they should let these people speak at these events.

Freedom of speech means listening to things you don't necessarily agree with (or not necessarily, no one is forcing you to listen). Besides, it's probably good for these alt right guys to get out of their wank pits occasionally.

There's either lots of lines or no lines.

Milo can talk one week and Choudary the next week.


It's what going to University is all about: spouting off about "really important shit that doesn't actually affect me 'cos Daddy is paying $150k for me to be here" for 4 years, then going out and getting a job where you have more important things to worry about.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 pm 
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sewa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:

Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


Does he or is he just some immature bellend trying to cause a bit of trouble, I suspect the latter


This is what I don't understand. Why are posters trying so hard to avoid admitting that people who go to rallies where they perform heil hitler salutes might be nazis? I'm genuinely not sure of the need.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:42 pm 
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fraz wrote:
sewa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:

Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


Does he or is he just some immature bellend trying to cause a bit of trouble, I suspect the latter


This is what I don't understand. Why are posters trying so hard to avoid admitting that people who go to rallies where they perform heil hitler salutes might be nazis? I'm genuinely not sure of the need.


Who is doing that? They might be, they might not be.

Seneca is the expert on this stuff as a supporter of the alt-right. But if I remember there's a trolling nature to what a lot of these guys do. Hence the milk and Pepsi.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:43 pm 
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fraz wrote:
sewa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:

Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


Does he or is he just some immature bellend trying to cause a bit of trouble, I suspect the latter


This is what I don't understand. Why are posters trying so hard to avoid admitting that people who go to rallies where they perform heil hitler salutes might be nazis? I'm genuinely not sure of the need.


you and your craft-beer communist mates are reaping the whirlwind of the disrespected rust-belt lumpenproletariat/don't get alt-right humour...


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:03 pm 
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fraz wrote:
sewa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:

Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


Does he or is he just some immature bellend trying to cause a bit of trouble, I suspect the latter


This is what I don't understand. Why are posters trying so hard to avoid admitting that people who go to rallies where they perform heil hitler salutes might be nazis? I'm genuinely not sure of the need.


Some even get iron eagles and swastika tattoos, but the jokes on you buddy!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
fraz wrote:
sewa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:

Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


Does he or is he just some immature bellend trying to cause a bit of trouble, I suspect the latter


This is what I don't understand. Why are posters trying so hard to avoid admitting that people who go to rallies where they perform heil hitler salutes might be nazis? I'm genuinely not sure of the need.


Who is doing that? They might be, they might not be.

Seneca is the expert on this stuff as a supporter of the alt-right. But if I remember there's a trolling nature to what a lot of these guys do. Hence the milk and Pepsi.


It is a little ambiguous. Certainly possible. Maybe even probable. More data needed. Fraz is committed to his view though.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
fraz wrote:
sewa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:

Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


Does he or is he just some immature bellend trying to cause a bit of trouble, I suspect the latter


This is what I don't understand. Why are posters trying so hard to avoid admitting that people who go to rallies where they perform heil hitler salutes might be nazis? I'm genuinely not sure of the need.


Who is doing that? They might be, they might not be.

Seneca is the expert on this stuff as a supporter of the alt-right. But if I remember there's a trolling nature to what a lot of these guys do. Hence the milk and Pepsi.


Scroll back up through the thread. In the last few dozen posts, we've had "they're just doing Hitler salutes to wind up the lefties", "boys will be boys", "they're just defending the constitution", the positively bizarre "Nazis aren't the only people who hit women" and of course Wilsons Toffee with the old classic "what's so wrong with being a Nazi?"

I just don't understand why, when you see somebody doing a Hitler salute in an anti-anti-fascism rally, it's such an unbearable concession to say "yeah that plum looks like a bit of a Nazi".

You'll have to forgive me, I don't know the significance of milk and Pepsi, but anyone who wants to drink that has something manifestly wrong with them, Nazi or otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:14 pm 
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fraz wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
fraz wrote:
sewa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:

Also no need to feel unsettled. I accepted that guy probably holds so sort of white supremacist views. You can take that to mean Nazi if you like but I don't necessarily think they are the same thing.


Does he or is he just some immature bellend trying to cause a bit of trouble, I suspect the latter


This is what I don't understand. Why are posters trying so hard to avoid admitting that people who go to rallies where they perform heil hitler salutes might be nazis? I'm genuinely not sure of the need.


Who is doing that? They might be, they might not be.

Seneca is the expert on this stuff as a supporter of the alt-right. But if I remember there's a trolling nature to what a lot of these guys do. Hence the milk and Pepsi.


Scroll back up through the thread. In the last few dozen posts, we've had "they're just doing Hitler salutes to wind up the lefties", "boys will be boys", "they're just defending the constitution", the positively bizarre "Nazis aren't the only people who hit women" and of course Wilsons Toffee with the old classic "what's so wrong with being a Nazi?"

I just don't understand why, when you see somebody doing a Hitler salute in an anti-anti-fascism rally, it's such an unbearable concession to say "yeah that plum looks like a bit of a Nazi".

You'll have to forgive me, I don't know the significance of milk and Pepsi, but anyone who wants to drink that has something manifestly wrong with them, Nazi or otherwise.


are you saying either beverage or "Milk & Pepsi" as some bizarre symbolic emetic?


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:22 pm 
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houtkabouter wrote:
Personally I think they should let these people speak at these events.

Freedom of speech means listening to things you don't necessarily agree with (or not necessarily, no one is forcing you to listen). Besides, it's probably good for these alt right guys to get out of their wank pits occasionally.

There's either lots of lines or no lines.

Milo can talk one week and Choudary the next week.


But they're are not - which somehow means that people who want free speech are Nazis.

Go figure.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKydKJKTixo


Guy advocating Antifa women to be punched.

Maybe they are deserving bitches. Deserving of the attention they now get ...

You have some fairly serious issues with women to work through.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
sewa wrote:
Even the thread title is rubbish, call that a battle? Its a bunch of students throwing a few poses



No, they are a terrorist group. With all the makings, markings, preparation and intent.

Not as good as some, I grant, but terrorists, nonetheless.

:lol: Terrorists


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
fraz wrote:
Saturnine wrote:
No good ever comes of extremism - whatever the persuasion.


Apartheid was brought to an end by the extremist Nelson Mandela.

.

Rubbish. External economic pressure and internal mellowing of some White leaders led to the end of Apartheid. Mandela sat in a cell on his arse for decades.



:shock: Now you've done it!!!! This should be taken over to the Saffa politics thread immediately :P


Over and above your point, if you do want to include pressure from the black population, I'd rather say the UDF were the big influence, not the ANC.

The ANC was nothing but an organisation that planted bombs killing innocent bystanders (mostly black); instead of targeting government and state resources, they went for the easy targets (civilians). That is, when there weren't hiding away in their camps in Angola and Mozambique, killing each other over the slightest hint of being double-agents for the government.

The ANC being this proverbial knight in shining armour is a narrative too easily believed today, due to the propaganda of government. The ANC wasn't even involved in the Sharpeville massacre as they love to proclaim. It was the PAC who instigated the whole thing, as they didn't want to be associated with the ANC (which the PAC thought of as too weak to defend government).


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:34 pm 
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DAC2016 wrote:
houtkabouter wrote:
Personally I think they should let these people speak at these events.

Freedom of speech means listening to things you don't necessarily agree with (or not necessarily, no one is forcing you to listen). Besides, it's probably good for these alt right guys to get out of their wank pits occasionally.

There's either lots of lines or no lines.

Milo can talk one week and Choudary the next week.


But they're are not - which somehow means that people who want free speech are Nazis.

Go figure.


Not every conservative is a nazi and not every liberal is antifa.

I think they're both a bunch of plum and I'd be happy to let them beat the bubblefart out of each other.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Dumbledore wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKydKJKTixo


Guy advocating Antifa women to be punched.

Maybe they are deserving bitches. Deserving of the attention they now get ...

You have some fairly serious issues with women to work through.


I don't think he does. She's a militant feminist, she helped organised an event were violence was a stated fact, she bragged of talking 100 scalps, she went for him first, she got punched.

Zero sympathy.


Last edited by DAC2016 on Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Quote:
Not every conservative is a nazi and not every liberal is antifa.

I think they're both a bunch of plum and I'd be happy to let them beat the bubblefart out of each other.


Entirely true, however, if the antifa weren't trying to shut down Free Speech none of this would be happening. They are the issue, not the conservatives.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:42 pm 
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DAC2016 wrote:
Quote:
Not every conservative is a nazi and not every liberal is antifa.

I think they're both a bunch of plum and I'd be happy to let them beat the bubblefart out of each other.


Entirely true, however, if the antifa weren't trying to shut down Free Speech none of this would be happening. They are the issue, not the conservatives.

Did you see the video of the Antifa guy nailing someone with a U-lock?


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Quote:
Did you see the video of the Antifa guy nailing someone with a U-lock?


Unconfirmed reports suggest he is an "Ethics" Teacher at some college


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of Berkeley
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:55 pm 
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What the liberals/Irish need to do on this bored is grow up a bit. Shouting wacist or Nazi and then walking about thinking you've won the argument just doesn't work anymore.

The centre are starting to see through that tactic.


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