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who should stay in Super Rugby
Force 80%  80%  [ 55 ]
Rebels 20%  20%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 69
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 Post subject: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:13 am 
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The people decide..


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:45 am 
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Force by a country mile!


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:20 pm 
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The level of interest demonstrated here kinda reflects on why the teams are in the sh*t. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Voted Force as they have a slightly less silly name.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
The level of interest demonstrated here kinda reflects on why the teams are in the sh*t. :|


Or the hour of the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:41 pm 
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How about the Brumbies leave instead?


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:44 pm 
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I thought this was a thread on Star Wars :(


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Darth_Quinlan wrote:
I thought this was a thread on Star Wars :(

The 2 would be largely 1 and the same?

Maybe that's the answer too to the real question?!


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Why choose? They should merge, and have a custom-built stadium in Fowler's Bay.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Darth_Quinlan wrote:
I thought this was a thread on Star Wars :(

The 2 would be largely 1 and the same?

Maybe that's the answer too to the real question?!


The Sith use the Force, and most of the rebels aren't Force users.


:blush:


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:04 pm 
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What a cvnt if a thread by a cvnt


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:59 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Darth_Quinlan wrote:
I thought this was a thread on Star Wars :(

The 2 would be largely 1 and the same?

Maybe that's the answer too to the real question?!


The Sith use the Force, and most of the rebels aren't Force users.


:blush:

All 2 of them. :x


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:00 pm 
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LIFO


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:07 pm 
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The banter on this thread...


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:13 am 
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Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Force have signed up Road Safety which is reported as the biggest sponsor deal in Super Rugby (Brumbies also claim to have that). Also have more local players in the squad, although that is probably down to longer in the competition.
Also have more players in Perth than Melbourne.
Force are now financially secure which the Rebels are not.

Neither should go but of one does it should be the Rebels.

I may be biased though.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:18 am 
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Farva wrote:
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Force have signed up Road Safety which is reported as the biggest sponsor deal in Super Rugby (Brumbies also claim to have that). Also have more local players in the squad, although that is probably down to longer in the competition.
Also have more players in Perth than Melbourne.
Force are now financially secure which the Rebels are not.

Neither should go but of one does it should be the Rebels.

I may be biased though.


You may indeed, but I still agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:44 am 
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How about the ARU grow some balls and say they aren't going to cut a team.

Renegotiate


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:48 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
How about the ARU grow some balls and say they aren't going to cut a team.

Renegotiate

:lol:

They'll never do that - grow ball or renegotiate. And they wont get what they want.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:56 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
How about the ARU grow some balls and say they aren't going to cut a team.

Renegotiate


Won't happen. I say they should take the savings made and look to heavily promote the NRC as a means of developing an exit strategy. The NRC saw strong growth both on and off the field last season. Crowds were up more than 10% and viewership up more than 23% across all games albeit from low bases. The competition as a whole even turned a profit. All this with the barest of promotion and marketing.

Invest in building the brands involved. Get more people watching both live and on TV. Do so with an eye on 2020 and beyond.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:12 am 
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Oh I know it won't happen.

It's what should happen though.

If not, they resign.

Both unlikely


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:25 am 
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its horrible that one has to go, but its happening. Looking at it pragmatically, let's look at the best team each can put on the field and determine who will play on as the reality is, the strength of the remaining 4 teams will grow.

Force (Keep/Stay - Yes/No)

1. Ben Daley Yes (good back up LHP)
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau No (I reckon will go overseas, but be good to keep)
3. Tetera Faulkner Yes
4. Matt Philip Yes
5. Richie Arnold Yes
6. Ross Haylett-Petty Yes
7. Matt Hodgson (c) No
8. Isi Naisarani Yes
9. Michael Ruru Yes
10. Jono Lance Yes
11. Alex Newsome Yes
12. Billy Meakes Yes
13. Marcel Brache No
14. Chance Peni Yes
15. Dane Haylett-Petty Yes

Replacements
16. Heath Tessman Maybe
17. Pek Cowan Yes
18. Shambeckler Vui Yes
19. Richard Hardwick Yes
20. Ben McCalman Maybe
21. Ian Prior Maybe
22. Luke Burton Maybe
23. Curtis Rona Yes, although can see him going back to League
24. Adam Coleman - Yes
25. Jermaine Ainsley - Yes
26. Angus Cottrell - Yes

So 19 options from the Force

Rebels

1. Toby Smith - Yes
2. James Hanson - Yes
3. Laurie Weeks - Yes
4. Steve Cummins - Yes
5. Lopeti Timani - Yes
6. Jordy Reid - Yes
7. Colby Fainga’a - Yes
8. Amanaki Mafi - Yes
9. Nic Stirzaker (c) - Yes
10. Jackson Garden-Bachop - No
11. Tom English - Yes
12. Reece Hodge - Yes
13. Mitch Inman - Yes
14. Jack Maddocks - Yes
15. Jack Debreczeni - Maybe

Replacements

16. Jordan Uelese - Yes
17. Cruze Ah-Nau - Yes
18. Tyrel Lomax - Yes
19. Culum Retallick - No
20. Jake Schatz - No
21. Ben Meehan - Maybe
22. Sione Tuipulotu - Yes
23. Jonah Placid - Maybe
24. Sefa Naivalu - Yes
25. Marika koroibete - Yes, but suspect he will go back to League
26. Sean mcMahon - Yes
27. Pat Leafa - Maybe

20 players from the rebels.

So, the positive of this mess is that there will be some much stronger Oz teams next year with that talent to be split up.

As a rusted on Tahs fan, I would be happy with a lock or two, plus some class in the backline.

If the Force go - Coleman/Phillip, Meakes, Peni

If the Rebels go - Naivalu, English, Cummins


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:27 am 
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How the fvck did Australia roll over and let this happen?

Dictated to by the Kiwis?

it is embarrassing.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:43 am 
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We are hardly the first country or sport where there has been a reduction in teams.

Its not ideal.

The worse thing that the ARU did was agree to expand in the first place - in spite of all the information saying they shouldn't.

if they had listened back then, then this would never have happened. That was when the real balls needed to be shown.

The reality is having 5 teams was bleeding money and it was impacting on the quality of our teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:46 am 
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L. Ron Hubbard wrote:
its horrible that one has to go, but its happening. Looking at it pragmatically, let's look at the best team each can put on the field and determine who will play on as the reality is, the strength of the remaining 4 teams will grow.

Force (Keep/Stay - Yes/No)

1. Ben Daley Yes (good back up LHP)
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau No (I reckon will go overseas, but be good to keep)
3. Tetera Faulkner Yes
4. Matt Philip Yes
5. Richie Arnold Yes
6. Ross Haylett-Petty Yes
7. Matt Hodgson (c) No
8. Isi Naisarani Yes
9. Michael Ruru Yes
10. Jono Lance Yes
11. Alex Newsome Yes
12. Billy Meakes Yes
13. Marcel Brache No
14. Chance Peni Yes
15. Dane Haylett-Petty Yes

Replacements
16. Heath Tessman Maybe
17. Pek Cowan Yes
18. Shambeckler Vui Yes
19. Richard Hardwick Yes
20. Ben McCalman Maybe
21. Ian Prior Maybe
22. Luke Burton Maybe
23. Curtis Rona Yes, although can see him going back to League
24. Adam Coleman - Yes
25. Jermaine Ainsley - Yes
26. Angus Cottrell - Yes

So 19 options from the Force

Rebels

1. Toby Smith - Yes
2. James Hanson - Yes
3. Laurie Weeks - Yes
4. Steve Cummins - Yes
5. Lopeti Timani - Yes
6. Jordy Reid - Yes
7. Colby Fainga’a - Yes
8. Amanaki Mafi - Yes
9. Nic Stirzaker (c) - Yes
10. Jackson Garden-Bachop - No
11. Tom English - Yes
12. Reece Hodge - Yes
13. Mitch Inman - Yes
14. Jack Maddocks - Yes
15. Jack Debreczeni - Maybe

Replacements

16. Jordan Uelese - Yes
17. Cruze Ah-Nau - Yes
18. Tyrel Lomax - Yes
19. Culum Retallick - No
20. Jake Schatz - No
21. Ben Meehan - Maybe
22. Sione Tuipulotu - Yes
23. Jonah Placid - Maybe
24. Sefa Naivalu - Yes
25. Marika koroibete - Yes, but suspect he will go back to League
26. Sean mcMahon - Yes
27. Pat Leafa - Maybe

20 players from the rebels.

So, the positive of this mess is that there will be some much stronger Oz teams next year with that talent to be split up.

As a rusted on Tahs fan, I would be happy with a lock or two, plus some class in the backline.

If the Force go - Coleman/Phillip, Meakes, Peni

If the Rebels go - Naivalu, English, Cummins


Well we won't be able to keep all of your "yes" players. I reckon what they should do is give the team that remains first refusal on all the players made available from the team that goes. The uncertainty is likely to have made it really hard for them to secure their players (or indeed attract new talent) and that would be fair compensation. Any player they don't want or who absolutely can't agree to terms with them can then be offered around to other clubs.

The Reds need halves and front rowers and the Waratahs need locks, centres, and a reserve front row. The Brumbies could probably do without, but I wouldn't mind seeing Lance, Lomax and Faingaa return, not because we need them but because it's nice to have the local boys back in the fold. It's probably better for Australian rugby anyway for the Brumbies to have a local flyhalf rather than Hawera.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:50 am 
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Why not have a relegation playoff?


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:52 am 
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village wrote:
Why not have a relegation playoff?


Two reasons:

a) the ARU has said repeatedly that the decision will be based on finance, not performance
b) it would be counterproductive if the Reds were disbanded


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:02 am 
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L. Ron Hubbard wrote:
We are hardly the first country or sport where there has been a reduction in teams.

Its not ideal.

The worse thing that the ARU did was agree to expand in the first place - in spite of all the information saying they shouldn't.

if they had listened back then, then this would never have happened. That was when the real balls needed to be shown.

The reality is having 5 teams was bleeding money and it was impacting on the quality of our teams.


Ireland has 4 teams

surely Australia can do 5???


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:06 am 
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waguser wrote:
L. Ron Hubbard wrote:
We are hardly the first country or sport where there has been a reduction in teams.

Its not ideal.

The worse thing that the ARU did was agree to expand in the first place - in spite of all the information saying they shouldn't.

if they had listened back then, then this would never have happened. That was when the real balls needed to be shown.

The reality is having 5 teams was bleeding money and it was impacting on the quality of our teams.


Ireland has 4 teams

surely Australia can do 5???


Clearly not!


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:07 am 
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fraz wrote:
L. Ron Hubbard wrote:
its horrible that one has to go, but its happening. Looking at it pragmatically, let's look at the best team each can put on the field and determine who will play on as the reality is, the strength of the remaining 4 teams will grow.

Force (Keep/Stay - Yes/No)

1. Ben Daley Yes (good back up LHP)
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau No (I reckon will go overseas, but be good to keep)
3. Tetera Faulkner Yes
4. Matt Philip Yes
5. Richie Arnold Yes
6. Ross Haylett-Petty Yes
7. Matt Hodgson (c) No
8. Isi Naisarani Yes
9. Michael Ruru Yes
10. Jono Lance Yes
11. Alex Newsome Yes
12. Billy Meakes Yes
13. Marcel Brache No
14. Chance Peni Yes
15. Dane Haylett-Petty Yes

Replacements
16. Heath Tessman Maybe
17. Pek Cowan Yes
18. Shambeckler Vui Yes
19. Richard Hardwick Yes
20. Ben McCalman Maybe
21. Ian Prior Maybe
22. Luke Burton Maybe
23. Curtis Rona Yes, although can see him going back to League
24. Adam Coleman - Yes
25. Jermaine Ainsley - Yes
26. Angus Cottrell - Yes

So 19 options from the Force

Rebels

1. Toby Smith - Yes
2. James Hanson - Yes
3. Laurie Weeks - Yes
4. Steve Cummins - Yes
5. Lopeti Timani - Yes
6. Jordy Reid - Yes
7. Colby Fainga’a - Yes
8. Amanaki Mafi - Yes
9. Nic Stirzaker (c) - Yes
10. Jackson Garden-Bachop - No
11. Tom English - Yes
12. Reece Hodge - Yes
13. Mitch Inman - Yes
14. Jack Maddocks - Yes
15. Jack Debreczeni - Maybe

Replacements

16. Jordan Uelese - Yes
17. Cruze Ah-Nau - Yes
18. Tyrel Lomax - Yes
19. Culum Retallick - No
20. Jake Schatz - No
21. Ben Meehan - Maybe
22. Sione Tuipulotu - Yes
23. Jonah Placid - Maybe
24. Sefa Naivalu - Yes
25. Marika koroibete - Yes, but suspect he will go back to League
26. Sean mcMahon - Yes
27. Pat Leafa - Maybe

20 players from the rebels.

So, the positive of this mess is that there will be some much stronger Oz teams next year with that talent to be split up.

As a rusted on Tahs fan, I would be happy with a lock or two, plus some class in the backline.

If the Force go - Coleman/Phillip, Meakes, Peni

If the Rebels go - Naivalu, English, Cummins


Well we won't be able to keep all of your "yes" players. I reckon what they should do is give the team that remains first refusal on all the players made available from the team that goes. The uncertainty is likely to have made it really hard for them to secure their players (or indeed attract new talent) and that would be fair compensation. Any player they don't want or who absolutely can't agree to terms with them can then be offered around to other clubs.

The Reds need halves and front rowers and the Waratahs need locks, centres, and a reserve front row. The Brumbies could probably do without, but I wouldn't mind seeing Lance, Lomax and Faingaa return, not because we need them but because it's nice to have the local boys back in the fold. It's probably better for Australian rugby anyway for the Brumbies to have a local flyhalf rather than Hawera.


Why wouldn't we be able to keep all of the yes players?


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:20 am 
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fraz wrote:
village wrote:
Why not have a relegation playoff?


Two reasons:

a) the ARU has said repeatedly that the decision will be based on finance, not performance
b) it would be counterproductive if the Reds were disbanded


Not so bad, they'd rotate it with the Tahs every other year.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:47 am 
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village wrote:
Why not have a relegation playoff?

With whom?

Where would the relegated side play for the next season and how could it come back up? Even if this were plausible, the whole root of this issue is economic hardship: sides with no certain future would be even more pressed to find sponsors, audience etc. Including those not at threat currently.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:05 am 
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Burton, McCalman and Prior would all be yeses IMO with Brache leaving and Hodgson retiring.
Also missed out on Louwrens who would be a yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:36 am 
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grievous wrote:
What a cvnt if a thread by a cvnt


This. Bravo is an idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:41 am 
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Farva wrote:
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Force have signed up Road Safety which is reported as the biggest sponsor deal in Super Rugby (Brumbies also claim to have that). Also have more local players in the squad, although that is probably down to longer in the competition.
Also have more players in Perth than Melbourne.
Force are now financially secure which the Rebels are not.

Neither should go but of one does it should be the Rebels.

I may be biased though.


Is this 'biggest sponsor deal in super rugby' similar to the Fireppower deal? It's hilarious to even suggest Force are more financially secure than Rebels when ARU had to bail you out and Rebels have been owned privately so not as big of a burden as Force.
Victorian Rugby over the years have generated far more professional rugby players and test players than WA also Rebels have had more players in Australian U20 and I beleive they have also produced more Wallabies in recent years.
Melbourne market is much bigger, there is more corporate support there and has more potential.

Having said that, neither team should be cut and both are extremely important to Australian rugby's future. If one team is cut the growth in rugby in that state will come to a stop and will never recover again.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:46 am 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
village wrote:
Why not have a relegation playoff?

With whom?

Where would the relegated side play for the next season and how could it come back up? Even if this were plausible, the whole root of this issue is economic hardship: sides with no certain future would be even more pressed to find sponsors, audience etc. Including those not at threat currently.


You misunderstand. I was suggesting have the Force and Rebels playoff in a one off winner take all battle for survival to settle the debate.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:32 am 
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TranceNRG wrote:
Farva wrote:
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Force have signed up Road Safety which is reported as the biggest sponsor deal in Super Rugby (Brumbies also claim to have that). Also have more local players in the squad, although that is probably down to longer in the competition.
Also have more players in Perth than Melbourne.
Force are now financially secure which the Rebels are not.

Neither should go but of one does it should be the Rebels.

I may be biased though.


Is this 'biggest sponsor deal in super rugby' similar to the Fireppower deal? It's hilarious to even suggest Force are more financially secure than Rebels when ARU had to bail you out and Rebels have been owned privately so not as big of a burden as Force.
Victorian Rugby over the years have generated far more professional rugby players and test players than WA also Rebels have had more players in Australian U20 and I beleive they have also produced more Wallabies in recent years.
Melbourne market is much bigger, there is more corporate support there and has more potential.

Having said that, neither team should be cut and both are extremely important to Australian rugby's future. If one team is cut the growth in rugby in that state will come to a stop and will never recover again.

Force have received $3.5m once. Rebels are getting $6m over the next 5 years in addition to the standard payments the clubs get from the broadcast deal.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/r ... a7af458305


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:46 am 
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Facts aren't going to help much when you're trying to deal with someone from the same side of the country as Pauline Hanson mate.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:49 am 
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village wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
village wrote:
Why not have a relegation playoff?

With whom?

Where would the relegated side play for the next season and how could it come back up? Even if this were plausible, the whole root of this issue is economic hardship: sides with no certain future would be even more pressed to find sponsors, audience etc. Including those not at threat currently.


You misunderstand. I was suggesting have the Force and Rebels playoff in a one off winner take all battle for survival to settle the debate.

In a streel cage?


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:52 am 
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Farva wrote:
village wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
village wrote:
Why not have a relegation playoff?

With whom?

Where would the relegated side play for the next season and how could it come back up? Even if this were plausible, the whole root of this issue is economic hardship: sides with no certain future would be even more pressed to find sponsors, audience etc. Including those not at threat currently.


You misunderstand. I was suggesting have the Force and Rebels playoff in a one off winner take all battle for survival to settle the debate.

In a streel cage?


You get me.

Whiskey and revolvers in the losing dressing room


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Rebels..
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 12529
Location: Melbourne
:smug: Rebels. A timely win, lads. :thumbup:


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