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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:19 pm 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Peteray wrote:
One thing from the old 'Dennis Conner' racing days that I miss is the use of the tracking technology being used in real time. For non-yachties it was really helpful. Who else can remember the days of standing in a bar hearing crowds of people yelling out, "luff him!" and "rollover him" etc etc. It was infectious.

As thrilling as the performance of these cats are, nothing beats the match racing IACC monohull imo.


as a Frenchman I think this stuff is nice enough but the real sailors deal with the sea in ever shape or form

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bigsexyboat: show
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Last edited by Laurent on Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:37 pm 
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Great pics


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Could you spoil the 2nd pic for size.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:34 pm 
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lexpat wrote:
Could you spoil the 2nd pic for size.

I can find a bigger one ;)

done


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
lexpat wrote:
Could you spoil the 2nd pic for size.

I can find a bigger one ;)

done


60' IMOCA is big enough for one man, except for some guy named Thomas Colville ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Peteray wrote:
One thing from the old 'Dennis Conner' racing days that I miss is the use of the tracking technology being used in real time. For non-yachties it was really helpful. Who else can remember the days of standing in a bar hearing crowds of people yelling out, "luff him!" and "rollover him" etc etc. It was infectious.

As thrilling as the performance of these cats are, nothing beats the match racing IACC monohull imo.


as a Frenchman I think this stuff is nice enough but the real sailors deal with the sea in ever shape or form

Image

bigsexyboat: show
Image

I lost interest in big boat sailing when The Whitbread became Volvo 60' and 70' footers. Pretty much one design in two categories.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:08 am 
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The America's Cup Anarchy forum on the Sailing Anarchy website is also worth following if you're into the AC.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?s=481fac7d0129b78b77261cfe65e5c14d&showforum=23


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:12 am 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Laurent wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Peteray wrote:
One thing from the old 'Dennis Conner' racing days that I miss is the use of the tracking technology being used in real time. For non-yachties it was really helpful. Who else can remember the days of standing in a bar hearing crowds of people yelling out, "luff him!" and "rollover him" etc etc. It was infectious.

As thrilling as the performance of these cats are, nothing beats the match racing IACC monohull imo.


as a Frenchman I think this stuff is nice enough but the real sailors deal with the sea in ever shape or form

Image

bigsexyboat: show
Image

I lost interest in big boat sailing when The Whitbread became Volvo 60' and 70' footers. Pretty much one design in two categories.

get on the Vendée globe / Transats / Jules Verne...
the last Vendée Globe was fantastic and with the current satellite communication you get to see a lot more than plots on a chart. (You could even race virtually).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:20 am 
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Hardtackle wrote:
The America's Cup Anarchy forum on the Sailing Anarchy website is also worth following if you're into the AC.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?s=481fac7d0129b78b77261cfe65e5c14d&showforum=23


Interesting. ETNZ has two different types of foils according to a thread on there. The boat launched with new foils and tested for a day or two then was swapped for older foils for the rest of the testing.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:22 am 
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And from this article I missed, ETNZ have gone through an entire AC course on the foils, keeping their hull "dry" - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... ericas-cup


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:36 am 
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And a photo NSFW on the pedestal seats

https://www.motorfun.biz/images/bicmov-plug.jpg


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:46 am 
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Seems like they've got a set of really low drag foils up their sleeves. They'd be pissed they showed their foiling ability too soon before the last iteration, as well as their ability to tack efficiently. Jimmy took a while to catch onto the whole roll tacking thing last time. Big Ben jumping aboard made a huge difference their. This time around Tom Slingsby will come into his own as tactician. He came from sailing one up on a Laser (albeit he'd just won the Olympic Gold) into a big money, huge team and looked a bit overawed. A few years down the track his nous will come out more. I can't wait. I watched every race last time and will be doing the same when it gets going.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:50 am 
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Some plum teeing off on another on Anarchy. Seems like they have a fair crack at spite as well.

"The only hhuuugggeee embarrassment to NZ has been ETNZ's constant losses, Dean Barker being a traitor and
teaming up with the defender, oh! And...

your criminal statistics for rape, murder, and theft,

your environmental record regarding your rivers and cow shit run off

Your Auckland mayours rooting record and mis managment!

Your Auckland council debt.

Your rapid decline in bird life due to 1080 and possums.

Your deforestation to service milk production

Your expensive airport parking, hotels, food, ...

You ever increasing" underclass" who cannot afford to rent or own a home.

your continued racial issues regarding Maori.

Your green party that has not achieved one positive result for the environment in twenty years

Did i mention Dean Barker!?

Your prison incarceration rate per population %

Grant Dalton's win loss record.

Most of the one eyed kiwis on this forum.

Your depleted fish stocks.

You are, however, leaders in youth suicides!

So leave third reef GRIN alone and fix your backyard
"


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:55 am 
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On the Slingsby thing, it'll be interesting how Peter Burling goes as a rookie helmsman. Glenn Ashby has an outstanding multihull pedigree so that's a real boon for the young guy.

Artemis looking bloody quick form the videos. Softbank Team Japan look to be the whipping boys this time. That'll do Dean Barker's reputation no good!

Excitement is definitely ramping up.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:25 am 
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Burling is class. He beat Outteridge for the 49er gold at Rio and is undefeated in a series for a year or two in that boat. When Outteridge and his crew were concentrating hard on the 49er they were unbeatable too - winning gold in London. When Burling (and Tuke) got the silver in London, he was only 21. Check the pedigree https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Burling_(sailor)
Clearly it's a different deal sailing in a bigger team for arguably a bigger prize. It's going to be intriguing.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:41 am 
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Interesting inter-personal battles if Artemis and ETNZ are the two strongest challenger.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:50 am 
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Sir Charles Benedict Ainslie has to be in there somewhere. 4 consecutive golds in the Finn class was no fluke. That, plus a shed load of cash has to there or there abouts.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:15 am 
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Huge talent all over the teams.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:28 pm 
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I'm surprised Ray Davies is still there. Wasn't he the tactician with Barker?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Very good foils' explanation/ demo.
Team Japan 🇯🇵
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=odw1FCKSO ... NqGVWxVPKh


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:48 pm 
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I wonder to what level of foxing will be employed. If reports are true that teams are foiling start to finish will teams try and race on one hull and until they absolutely need to get up or will they go guns blazing from the gun?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:13 pm 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
I wonder to what level of foxing will be employed. If reports are true that teams are foiling start to finish will teams try and race on one hull and until they absolutely need to get up or will they go guns blazing from the gun?

Good question.

Reckon it will depend upon wind speed and direction.

I think if both are favourable, they will just go for it. If not, we might have a lot of tacking going on.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:24 pm 
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globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
I wonder to what level of foxing will be employed. If reports are true that teams are foiling start to finish will teams try and race on one hull and until they absolutely need to get up or will they go guns blazing from the gun?

Good question.

Reckon it will depend upon wind speed and direction.

I think if both are favourable, they will just go for it. If not, we might have a lot of tacking going on.

What's that cycle race they do on an indoor track where they piss about for 95% of the circuit then one bloke puts the hammer down for the line. I can see it going something like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Rumours circulating that those plum from Oracle are building or retrofitting their second boat to have cyclist grinders - http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports ... edal-power


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Lance is on his way

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:33 pm 
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There are a lot of people falling off these boats in training. Spitall took a swim the other day.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:12 pm 
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^
Trampolines can be tricky
Video
http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Ame ... deo/152959


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:33 pm 
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AC racing is a farce. Nothing fair or "sporting" about it. A wankfest for plums.

You know as soon as one team seems to get an advantage, that they'll just change the rules to nullify them.

I wonder how much money has been spent on lawyers over the years. AC is certainly good for them.

Whoever (an Aussie?) said back then that he should run the damn cup over with a steamroller and call it the Americas plate hit the nail right on the head.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:27 pm 
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I really can't wait for this. It's going to be faaaaaaaaaaaaaast and furious.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:04 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
AC racing is a farce. Nothing fair or "sporting" about it. A wankfest for plums.

You know as soon as one team seems to get an advantage, that they'll just change the rules to nullify them.

I wonder how much money has been spent on lawyers over the years. AC is certainly good for them.

Whoever (an Aussie?) said back then that he should run the damn cup over with a steamroller and call it the Americas plate hit the nail right on the head.

Luna Rossa abandoned further challenges in protest at the rule changes. The good thing is that they have close relationship with ETNZ so have aided them technically and practically.

I never realised that with the new rules changes the holder can build two boats, all the challengers can only have the one. The holder can now race in the challenger series despite it not stopping them from racing in the AC. So, Oracle can build two boats and they've changed the rules so that they can race against the other teams prior to the LV and during the first round of the LV. Effectively giving them time and data to build or modify a second boat that will better suit the conditions and/or take advantage of any technology that they see and adopt from another team.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:25 am 
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The Native wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
AC racing is a farce. Nothing fair or "sporting" about it. A wankfest for plums.

You know as soon as one team seems to get an advantage, that they'll just change the rules to nullify them.

I wonder how much money has been spent on lawyers over the years. AC is certainly good for them.

Whoever (an Aussie?) said back then that he should run the damn cup over with a steamroller and call it the Americas plate hit the nail right on the head.

Luna Rossa abandoned further challenges in protest at the rule changes. The good thing is that they have close relationship with ETNZ so have aided them technically and practically.

I never realised that with the new rules changes the holder can build two boats, all the challengers can only have the one. The holder can now race in the challenger series despite it not stopping them from racing in the AC. So, Oracle can build two boats and they've changed the rules so that they can race against the other teams prior to the LV and during the first round of the LV. Effectively giving them time and data to build or modify a second boat that will better suit the conditions and/or take advantage of any technology that they see and adopt from another team.


A bit like the ABs starting every game in their RWC defence with a 20 point lead.

Very sporting.....


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:40 am 
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The Native wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
AC racing is a farce. Nothing fair or "sporting" about it. A wankfest for plums.

You know as soon as one team seems to get an advantage, that they'll just change the rules to nullify them.

I wonder how much money has been spent on lawyers over the years. AC is certainly good for them.

Whoever (an Aussie?) said back then that he should run the damn cup over with a steamroller and call it the Americas plate hit the nail right on the head.

Luna Rossa abandoned further challenges in protest at the rule changes. The good thing is that they have close relationship with ETNZ so have aided them technically and practically.

I never realised that with the new rules changes the holder can build two boats, all the challengers can only have the one. The holder can now race in the challenger series despite it not stopping them from racing in the AC. So, Oracle can build two boats and they've changed the rules so that they can race against the other teams prior to the LV and during the first round of the LV. Effectively giving them time and data to build or modify a second boat that will better suit the conditions and/or take advantage of any technology that they see and adopt from another team.


America's Cup is a real example of what goes wrong when you allow one competitor to write rules at will by holding the rest of the field at ransom.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:52 am 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
The Native wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
AC racing is a farce. Nothing fair or "sporting" about it. A wankfest for plums.

You know as soon as one team seems to get an advantage, that they'll just change the rules to nullify them.

I wonder how much money has been spent on lawyers over the years. AC is certainly good for them.

Whoever (an Aussie?) said back then that he should run the damn cup over with a steamroller and call it the Americas plate hit the nail right on the head.

Luna Rossa abandoned further challenges in protest at the rule changes. The good thing is that they have close relationship with ETNZ so have aided them technically and practically.

I never realised that with the new rules changes the holder can build two boats, all the challengers can only have the one. The holder can now race in the challenger series despite it not stopping them from racing in the AC. So, Oracle can build two boats and they've changed the rules so that they can race against the other teams prior to the LV and during the first round of the LV. Effectively giving them time and data to build or modify a second boat that will better suit the conditions and/or take advantage of any technology that they see and adopt from another team.


America's Cup is a real example of what goes wrong when you allow one competitor to write rules at will by holding the rest of the field at ransom.

Which makes it all the more satisfying if you can win it. The challengers just need to be smarter at playing the game.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:51 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
The Native wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
AC racing is a farce. Nothing fair or "sporting" about it. A wankfest for plums.

You know as soon as one team seems to get an advantage, that they'll just change the rules to nullify them.

I wonder how much money has been spent on lawyers over the years. AC is certainly good for them.

Whoever (an Aussie?) said back then that he should run the damn cup over with a steamroller and call it the Americas plate hit the nail right on the head.

Luna Rossa abandoned further challenges in protest at the rule changes. The good thing is that they have close relationship with ETNZ so have aided them technically and practically.

I never realised that with the new rules changes the holder can build two boats, all the challengers can only have the one. The holder can now race in the challenger series despite it not stopping them from racing in the AC. So, Oracle can build two boats and they've changed the rules so that they can race against the other teams prior to the LV and during the first round of the LV. Effectively giving them time and data to build or modify a second boat that will better suit the conditions and/or take advantage of any technology that they see and adopt from another team.


A bit like the ABs starting every game in their RWC defence with a 20 point lead.

Very sporting.....


I do hope we smesh them. Terrified to think how quickly Oracle can turn it around, if they did start to develop their own foot pedals. Last time it was ridiculous how they turned it during the last Americas Cup, to perfect the boat foiling, just in time to rescue it and even dominate us massively towards the end.

The only thing which gives me hope is that it would require a completely different crew, those with muscles and power in the legs, which will be hard to find with the combination of being able shift efficiently around a boat and know what to do and when.


Last edited by Yourmother on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:55 pm 
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The Native wrote:
And from this article I missed, ETNZ have gone through an entire AC course on the foils, keeping their hull "dry" - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... ericas-cup


Yep, they achieved the "holy grail" in Auckland. Not heard of anyone else achieving that.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:10 pm 
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I'm not sure we should bother with this sport anymore given we are going up against people with bottomless pockets.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:51 am 
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Yourmother wrote:
The Native wrote:
And from this article I missed, ETNZ have gone through an entire AC course on the foils, keeping their hull "dry" - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... ericas-cup


Yep, they achieved the "holy grail" in Auckland. Not heard of anyone else achieving that.

Japan have mentioned they have achieved tacking on foils. A lot depends on the trade-off between speed and control from what I understand. Maybe this is the advantage of cycling grinders being able to provide better power to the hydraulics allowing ETNZ to manage faster but unstable foils.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:49 am 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Yourmother wrote:
The Native wrote:
And from this article I missed, ETNZ have gone through an entire AC course on the foils, keeping their hull "dry" - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... ericas-cup


Yep, they achieved the "holy grail" in Auckland. Not heard of anyone else achieving that.

Japan have mentioned they have achieved tacking on foils. A lot depends on the trade-off between speed and control from what I understand. Maybe this is the advantage of cycling grinders being able to provide better power to the hydraulics allowing ETNZ to manage faster but unstable foils.


I've found this http://softbank-team-japan.americascup. ... -TACK.html

That's back some time ago, so presumably they've got better at repeating it. Not clear they've done the whole course. Any links?


Worringly, they're deemed the whipping boys.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:06 am 
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Just found a handy YouTube channel which has quite a lot of coverage.

https://m.youtube.com/user/MyislandhomeBDA

Check this one out though. Artemis and Oracle going toe to toe.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tltjpQwHvoU

Look at the speed of these boats. It's remarkable.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:30 am 
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Having watched a few of those vids now, generally they are keeping up on their foils, but still quite a few dips to be seen, especially around the markers.


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