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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:51 pm 
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globus wrote:
Yourmother wrote:

Cheers. Glad nobody got hurt.

When cats go over, sometimes crew get trapped. And drown. Relieved to know that didn't happen this time.


Yep. Team Artemis capsized and lost someone not so long ago, infact just before the last Americas cup.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:26 pm 
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Yourmother wrote:
globus wrote:
Yourmother wrote:

Cheers. Glad nobody got hurt.

When cats go over, sometimes crew get trapped. And drown. Relieved to know that didn't happen this time.


Yep. Team Artemis capsized and lost someone not so long ago, infact just before the last Americas cup.

What's interesting from that video, is the Oracle weren't foiling on the tack.

Of course, they may not have been trying to foil or the wind conditions may have not allowed them to, but it is telling.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:30 am 
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I reckon we're in a good position again for this regatta. I don't see having cycle grinders having a huge effect, maybe more psychological than anything else but it maybe 1% which is huge over a course. There are 2 aspects in which we inevitably lose and it comes down to money and mental weakness. In the last event it was ETNZ that allowed Oracle the layday to do what they needed to do and Dalton knew it. They'll be up there in boat speed and tactics but they need to nullify the mind games or perhaps even embrace it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:51 am 
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The Native wrote:
Of course, they may not have been trying to foil or the wind conditions may have not allowed them to, but it is telling.

I've read they were practising a start sequence dial up and got the wind abeam, instead of the usual apparent wind from ahead. Don't know if it's true.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:02 am 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
I reckon we're in a good position again for this regatta. I don't see having cycle grinders having a huge effect, maybe more psychological than anything else but it maybe 1% which is huge over a course. There are 2 aspects in which we inevitably lose and it comes down to money and mental weakness. In the last event it was ETNZ that allowed Oracle the layday to do what they needed to do and Dalton knew it. They'll be up there in boat speed and tactics but they need to nullify the mind games or perhaps even embrace it.

I think it'll have either a huge affect, or f**k all. We'll never beat their budgets, but we're renowned innovators. Can not wait to see how the new, young crew go. Barker was meant to be the next Coutts - which in hindsight was weird because he never had anywhere close to the same pedigree - and never got close.
usermame wrote:
The Native wrote:
Of course, they may not have been trying to foil or the wind conditions may have not allowed them to, but it is telling.

I've read they were practising a start sequence dial up and got the wind abeam, instead of the usual apparent wind from ahead. Don't know if it's true.

That makes sense. Though it caught them by surprise so they either weren't paying attention, don't know the boat or the wind shifted very erractically.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:39 am 
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The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
I reckon we're in a good position again for this regatta. I don't see having cycle grinders having a huge effect, maybe more psychological than anything else but it maybe 1% which is huge over a course. There are 2 aspects in which we inevitably lose and it comes down to money and mental weakness. In the last event it was ETNZ that allowed Oracle the layday to do what they needed to do and Dalton knew it. They'll be up there in boat speed and tactics but they need to nullify the mind games or perhaps even embrace it.

I think it'll have either a huge affect, or f**k all. We'll never beat their budgets, but we're renowned innovators. Can not wait to see how the new, young crew go. Barker was meant to be the next Coutts - which in hindsight was weird because he never had anywhere close to the same pedigree - and never got close.
usermame wrote:
The Native wrote:
Of course, they may not have been trying to foil or the wind conditions may have not allowed them to, but it is telling.

I've read they were practising a start sequence dial up and got the wind abeam, instead of the usual apparent wind from ahead. Don't know if it's true.

That makes sense. Though it caught them by surprise so they either weren't paying attention, don't know the boat or the wind shifted very erractically.

They chose Barker early on because he had promise and was young but that was also his kryptonite. He didn't know how to win because he hadn't won anything. Sir Peter had done it all, built his own boats, campaigned, schmoozed sponsors, sail a broken boat across an ocean, lost but also won and overcame some big challenges. Barker came into the game too raw without as you say the pedigree. As tough as it was Dalton did the right thing by letting him go because he'd been the skipper for 3 failed challenges and there are better multihull sailors in NZ.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:28 am 
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This is a great thread and so interesting.

Really good to get SH input.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:33 am 
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Barker was handpicked by Coutts. It was a bit strange considering Barker missed Olympic selection in 96 but Coutts obviously saw the potential. Though his record in finals is pretty damning reading - 0-5, 2-5 and 8-9.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:46 am 
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Any objections if I rename the thread to the
"Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread"


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:52 am 
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It's a logical decision.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:46 am 
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No problems from me.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:46 am 
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Good idea.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:00 am 
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Do it.

(Only adding this to make sure that the thread comes up on my feed so that I can keep abreast of what's happening)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:08 am 
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I wonder what the tactics will be on the start line. Hope there will be a live simulation feed as there has been.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:14 am 
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and done. (retitled)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:16 am 
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Good Man.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:40 am 
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globus wrote:
I wonder what the tactics will be on the start line. Hope there will be a live simulation feed as there has been.

Much as it was last time and the time before that I imagine. The basics of match racing will remain largely the same.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:30 am 
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The Native wrote:
globus wrote:
I wonder what the tactics will be on the start line. Hope there will be a live simulation feed as there has been.

Much as it was last time and the time before that I imagine. The basics of match racing will remain largely the same.

I'm sure that's right. I just love the manoeuvring.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:00 am 
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blackblackblack wrote:
and done. (retitled)


Thanks. Saved me the effort!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:02 am 
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Allez les Bleus (not much hope in that one we are better at transoceanic or round the world ventures)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:07 am 
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In Sir Ben we trust!! :thumbup:

Latest Odds: 5/6 Oracle, 9/4 GB, 9/2 NZ, 14/1 the rest


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:07 pm 
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terryfinch wrote:
In Sir Ben we trust!! :thumbup:

Latest Odds: 5/6 Oracle, 9/4 GB, 9/2 NZ, 14/1 the rest


:shock: I'm getting some money down on NZ. That's great odds imo.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:53 pm 
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terryfinch wrote:
In Sir Ben we trust!! :thumbup:

Latest Odds: 5/6 Oracle, 9/4 GB, 9/2 NZ, 14/1 the rest


yeah but that is because they will get a lot of dough on GB and Ben being the local favourite with the GB locals.

Same as NZ will be a lot shorter here.

Oracle will kill this - the rules have been changed to say so. I am surprised that they haven't been allowed to install a 20mm cannon


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:39 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
terryfinch wrote:
In Sir Ben we trust!! :thumbup:

Latest Odds: 5/6 Oracle, 9/4 GB, 9/2 NZ, 14/1 the rest


yeah but that is because they will get a lot of dough on GB and Ben being the local favourite with the GB locals.

Same as NZ will be a lot shorter here.

Oracle will kill this - the rules have been changed to say so. I am surprised that they haven't been allowed to install a 20mm cannon

Oracle defended the cup based on one huge fundamental error from ETNZ. Had they not allowed that layday them I'm 100% positive the defense would be on the Waitamata.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:35 am 
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I'll maintain my prediction that Oracle and their cronies changed the rules to allow inter-syndicate racing because they saw the speed of the ETNZ boat and shat their collective pants at it's capabilities. None of them wished to be caught on the hop and so they're testing like mad.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:41 pm 
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The Native wrote:
I'll maintain my prediction that Oracle and their cronies changed the rules to allow inter-syndicate racing because they saw the speed of the ETNZ boat and shat their collective pants at it's capabilities. None of them wished to be caught on the hop and so they're testing like mad.

That or its an epic spite.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:07 pm 
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The Native wrote:
I'll maintain my prediction that Oracle and their cronies changed the rules to allow inter-syndicate racing because they saw the speed of the ETNZ boat and shat their collective pants at it's capabilities. None of them wished to be caught on the hop and so they're testing like mad.


Has any other team managed to achieve a whole course foiling apart from ETNZ?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
Allez les Bleus (not much hope in that one we are better at transoceanic or round the world ventures)

This year they might do better, different foil than the other teams, but Fr budget is very low compared to some

Team France 🇫🇷
Spoiler: show
[]Image


Ps: video in French, frank Cammas explaining the foils
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qLoOPtWTUoQ


Last edited by lexpat on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Boat has touched down. Wonder how long before they'll be on the course.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... to-bermuda

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:31 pm 
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^ my point about budget.

Laurent, this video shows they aren't ready yet .
Maybe they shouldn't call it trampoline Man overboard during practice :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Ame ... deo/152959


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:54 pm 
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lexpat wrote:
^ my point about budget.

Laurent, this video shows they aren't ready yet .
Maybe they shouldn't call it trampoline Man overboard during practice :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Ame ... deo/152959

This iteration has smaller boats and cost saving measures. The last time it was held in San Fran Oracle had an estimated budget of $250-$300 Millions USD. ETNZ was the second lowest at $100 million USD. Luna Rossa was $80-$90 million USD.
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote:
I'll maintain my prediction that Oracle and their cronies changed the rules to allow inter-syndicate racing because they saw the speed of the ETNZ boat and shat their collective pants at it's capabilities. None of them wished to be caught on the hop and so they're testing like mad.

That or its an epic spite.

:lol:

That too!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:14 pm 
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@ the Native
I don't know where you got these numbers as the teams don't publish the actual numbers but the general sense is that LRBAR have the largest budget at around 100M£ and GTF the lowest at around 30M€ , it's hard to use those numbers in a meaningful way because teams benefit in many ways - free labor, facilities or technology provided, etc... GTF had their base in France for free plus assorted other assistance from the French navy.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:30 pm 
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They're estimates from this sailing news site - http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2013/ ... ricas-cup/


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Thought I was totally over the America's Cup after our epic choke in San Fran but now that this next installment is almost upon us my interest has been piqued.

I'll definitely be watching.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Yourmother wrote:
Any objections if I rename the thread to the
"Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread"

As you value my opinion so highly I will give it freely. Change the title back dipshit


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:41 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Yourmother wrote:
Any objections if I rename the thread to the
"Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread"

As you value my opinion so highly I will give it freely. Change the title back dipshit


:lol: I'm starting to like you.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:15 am 
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lexpat wrote:
@ the Native
I don't know where you got these numbers as the teams don't publish the actual numbers but the general sense is that LRBAR have the largest budget at around 100M£ and GTF the lowest at around 30M€ , it's hard to use those numbers in a meaningful way because teams benefit in many ways - free labor, facilities or technology provided, etc... GTF had their base in France for free plus assorted other assistance from the French navy.

True but the boats are something like 90% one design which levels the playing field. Budget comes into design and testing of that small percentage that is allowed to be changed.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 am 
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So apparently the Swedes, of all the syndicates, are completely smashing it in the latest practise races. Holding a 9-0 record so far. Oracle was top in the last practise series with Artemis behind them. Hard to read too much into the results but Japan, GBR and France were all lagging behind.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... g-heats-up


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:37 am 
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One thing from the old 'Dennis Conner' racing days that I miss is the use of the tracking technology being used in real time. For non-yachties it was really helpful. Who else can remember the days of standing in a bar hearing crowds of people yelling out, "luff him!" and "rollover him" etc etc. It was infectious.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Peteray wrote:
One thing from the old 'Dennis Conner' racing days that I miss is the use of the tracking technology being used in real time. For non-yachties it was really helpful. Who else can remember the days of standing in a bar hearing crowds of people yelling out, "luff him!" and "rollover him" etc etc. It was infectious.

As thrilling as the performance of these cats are, nothing beats the match racing IACC monohull imo.


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