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 Post subject: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:32 am 
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I'm pretty nervous about the Pro12 again. Nots ure is it just click bait or a reality.

After a few good results in Europe, we seem to be facing an even bigger financial mountain to climb as the French and English maraud our league.

ITALY
Italians are talking about moving Zebre to Rome - not a rugby heartland.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-12374368

SCOTLAND
The Scots are shitting it about Russel, Gray, Hogg, Dunbar, Seymour, Bennett et al
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38522063

WALES
Wales are scampering for significantly larger budgets.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... l-12400972
Dragons ca't get a backer - on their way out?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38520288

IRELAND
Only the Irish have yet to yield a story, but I thought they were verging on bankruptcy (or will be when they hand us our RWC2023 dues).

And we were looking to bring in US teams!!


Anyone can calm my nerves?


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:52 am 
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If it helps nobody is worried about Hogg leaving as he's now the highest paid player in Scotland's history and Seymour is about to sign an extension apparently. Russell has a year and a half on his deal and won't go anywhere before then either. In addition Rennie is coming over in the summer and he's one of the names banded around for every job going such is his calibre.

Also generally the Pro12 sides are going very well in Europe and there looks to be good youngsters coming through judging by how well the national age grades are performing.

The Italian teams are awful but they've always been awful so nothing's really changed there.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:59 am 
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LandOTurk wrote:
SCOTLAND
The Scots are shitting it about Russel, Gray, Hogg, Dunbar, Seymour, Bennett et al
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38522063



:lol: Tom English


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:18 am 
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I like haggis wrote:
If it helps nobody is worried about Hogg leaving as he's now the highest paid player in Scotland's history and Seymour is about to sign an extension apparently. Russell has a year and a half on his deal and won't go anywhere before then either. In addition Rennie is coming over in the summer and he's one of the names banded around for every job going such is his calibre.

Also generally the Pro12 sides are going very well in Europe and there looks to be good youngsters coming through judging by how well the national age grades are performing.

The Italian teams are awful but they've always been awful so nothing's really changed there.


That's why I am worried in part. Obviously I want the Pro12 teams, and in particular Welsh, specifically Scarlets to beat the French and English, but see an ever widening financial gulf between us and them. The inevitable result is their moneymen pouring over our best players, diluting the league again and again. I think we can bridge it enough to parry them from taking most of our best. I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:56 am 
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LandOTurk wrote:
I'm pretty nervous about the Pro12 again. Nots ure is it just click bait or a reality.

After a few good results in Europe, we seem to be facing an even bigger financial mountain to climb as the French and English maraud our league.

ITALY
Italians are talking about moving Zebre to Rome - not a rugby heartland.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-12374368

SCOTLAND
The Scots are shitting it about Russel, Gray, Hogg, Dunbar, Seymour, Bennett et al
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38522063

WALES
Wales are scampering for significantly larger budgets.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... l-12400972
Dragons ca't get a backer - on their way out?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38520288

IRELAND
Only the Irish have yet to yield a story, but I thought they were verging on bankruptcy (or will be when they hand us our RWC2023 dues).

And we were looking to bring in US teams!!


Anyone can calm my nerves?


Tom English knows fk all about anything, he wandered into the rugby post up here and flails about. Two year contracts are the norm, so every year on average there's going to be around half the squad out of contract. We'll lose some, we'll bring some more in (whoever Rennie decides he wants). We're used to it


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:15 am 
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Kill Jester wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
I'm pretty nervous about the Pro12 again. Nots ure is it just click bait or a reality.

After a few good results in Europe, we seem to be facing an even bigger financial mountain to climb as the French and English maraud our league.

ITALY
Italians are talking about moving Zebre to Rome - not a rugby heartland.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-12374368

SCOTLAND
The Scots are shitting it about Russel, Gray, Hogg, Dunbar, Seymour, Bennett et al
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38522063

WALES
Wales are scampering for significantly larger budgets.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... l-12400972
Dragons ca't get a backer - on their way out?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38520288

IRELAND
Only the Irish have yet to yield a story, but I thought they were verging on bankruptcy (or will be when they hand us our RWC2023 dues).

And we were looking to bring in US teams!!


Anyone can calm my nerves?


Tom English knows fk all about anything, he wandered into the rugby post up here and flails about. Two year contracts are the norm, so every year on average there's going to be around half the squad out of contract. We'll lose some, we'll bring some more in (whoever Rennie decides he wants). We're used to it

The Tom English story above is mainly speculation, conjecture and hyperbole.

Par for the course for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:21 am 
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Ireland's finances are in great shape and aren't the WC dues a share of the profits?


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:26 am 
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Ireland have two provinces who run at a profit (Ulster and Leinster), have had success at club and international level which boosts the coffers and had a lucrative 4th AI in America this year.

Finances are very secure.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:30 am 
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Those rake of players would be silly to leave Glasgow, they are one of the best sides in Europe, and as said they will at the very least wait until Rennie comes in as I can see him taking them up another level

As for the Welsh are they not always looking for more money? It's not like the other unions are getting more money from the Pro 12 than them, so there is no excuse really. Dragons are Dragons are are always going to struggle unfortunately

Moving Zebre to Rome may not be the worst idea tbf, IMO


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:30 am 
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As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:34 am 
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Welsh people are thick as f*ck, so everything needs to be considered in that light.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:35 am 
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Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Irish teams have won 5 (possibly even 6 depending how you count) European Cups. I doubt we'd have managed that without the Pro 12 competition. The other Celtic nations are piss poor but that's their own issue to sort out


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:39 am 
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sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Irish teams have won 5 (possibly even 6 depending how you count) European Cups. I doubt we'd have managed that without the Pro 12 competition. The other Celtic nations are piss poor but that's their own issue to sort out


:lol: That was years ago fella.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:41 am 
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Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Disagree. Clermont and Saracens, who are more well coached than anything, are the best sides in Europe but after them I would have the likes of Leinster and Glasgow. Munster still have a lot of room to improve, Connacht are paying for a bad injury spell and a poor start to the season, but theyve shown what they're capable of having beat Wasps and Toulouse already. Ulster are going downhill granted but the playing resources are there and it wasnt too long ago we were first seeds, but we've already beat Exeter and Clermont this season so we do have good performances in us

Saints and Tigers are in decline and I don't see much difference between the likes of Cardiff and Sale or Gloucester etc


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:44 am 
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Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Disagree. Clermont and Saracens, who are more well coached than anything, are the best sides in Europe but after them I would have the likes of Leinster and Glasgow. Munster still have a lot of room to improve, Connacht are paying for a bad injury spell and a poor start to the season, but theyve shown what they're capable of having beat Wasps and Toulouse already. Ulster are going downhill granted but the playing resources are there and it wasnt too long ago we were first seeds, but we've already beat Exeter and Clermont this season so we do have good performances in us

Saints and Tigers are in decline and I don't see much difference between the likes of Cardiff and Sale or Gloucester etc

Very much this.

Also watch what happens to spivclubs when their sugar daddies get bored with rugby, and move onto another sport/interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:45 am 
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Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Disagree. Clermont and Saracens, who are more well coached than anything, are the best sides in Europe but after them I would have the likes of Leinster and Glasgow. Munster still have a lot of room to improve, Connacht are paying for a bad injury spell and a poor start to the season, but theyve shown what they're capable of having beat Wasps and Toulouse already. Ulster are going downhill granted but the playing resources are there and it wasnt too long ago we were first seeds, but we've already beat Exeter and Clermont this season so we do have good performances in us

Saints and Tigers are in decline and I don't see much difference between the likes of Cardiff and Sale or Gloucester etc


Fair play, In that case I'd expect a few Celtic teams in the semi finals of the European Champions Cup.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:45 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Disagree. Clermont and Saracens, who are more well coached than anything, are the best sides in Europe but after them I would have the likes of Leinster and Glasgow. Munster still have a lot of room to improve, Connacht are paying for a bad injury spell and a poor start to the season, but theyve shown what they're capable of having beat Wasps and Toulouse already. Ulster are going downhill granted but the playing resources are there and it wasnt too long ago we were first seeds, but we've already beat Exeter and Clermont this season so we do have good performances in us

Saints and Tigers are in decline and I don't see much difference between the likes of Cardiff and Sale or Gloucester etc

Very much this.

Also watch what happens to spivclubs when their sugar daddies get bored with rugby, and move onto another sport/interest.


They find another sugar daddy. That's what normally happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:46 am 
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Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Irish teams have won 5 (possibly even 6 depending how you count) European Cups. I doubt we'd have managed that without the Pro 12 competition. The other Celtic nations are piss poor but that's their own issue to sort out


:lol: That was years ago fella.


True but Munster are very well placed this year and Leinster could surprise people and be one of the top sides again.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:47 am 
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Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Irish teams have won 5 (possibly even 6 depending how you count) European Cups. I doubt we'd have managed that without the Pro 12 competition. The other Celtic nations are piss poor but that's their own issue to sort out


:lol: That was years ago fella.

And it looks like Leinster, Munster and Glasgow will all qualify for the QFs while there is an outside chance for Connacht and Ulster in the top tier while Ospreys, Cardiff and Edinburgh all look good to qualify in the second level.

Not a bad year at all for Celtic rugby in Europe.

All we need now is to get shot of the Italians and stop playing games during the international window while also increasing the number of front line players playing key derby fixtures and we'll be onto a good one.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:49 am 
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sewa wrote:

True but Munster are very well placed this year and Leinster could surprise people and be one of the top sides again.


I think you're clutching at straws personally. The quality of players in France and England now are way ahead of the Pro12. On average, the overseas signings by Pro12 clubs are a few levels down from what we see in the Aviva Prem and Top14. That's what a proper league with a good tv deal gets you.

The next tv deal for the Pro12 will tell us where we really are. My bet is that it doesn't make a dent in the Aviva Premiership finances. That's where the real problem lies, and no amount of tinkering to the Pro12 will fix that gap.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:49 am 
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Kid A wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Disagree. Clermont and Saracens, who are more well coached than anything, are the best sides in Europe but after them I would have the likes of Leinster and Glasgow. Munster still have a lot of room to improve, Connacht are paying for a bad injury spell and a poor start to the season, but theyve shown what they're capable of having beat Wasps and Toulouse already. Ulster are going downhill granted but the playing resources are there and it wasnt too long ago we were first seeds, but we've already beat Exeter and Clermont this season so we do have good performances in us

Saints and Tigers are in decline and I don't see much difference between the likes of Cardiff and Sale or Gloucester etc


Fair play, In that case I'd expect a few Celtic teams in the semi finals of the European Champions Cup.

I'd have Leinster as favourites for to reach the semis as they'll likely have a home semi. Glasgow will fear no one either with their wins on the road this season and Munster will match anyone at home but will struggle if drawn away to a French side or Saracens


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:52 am 
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Kid A wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Kid A wrote:
As long as the Pro12 is in existence, the Celtic domestic tegams will be way, way behind their French and English counterparts.


Disagree. Clermont and Saracens, who are more well coached than anything, are the best sides in Europe but after them I would have the likes of Leinster and Glasgow. Munster still have a lot of room to improve, Connacht are paying for a bad injury spell and a poor start to the season, but theyve shown what they're capable of having beat Wasps and Toulouse already. Ulster are going downhill granted but the playing resources are there and it wasnt too long ago we were first seeds, but we've already beat Exeter and Clermont this season so we do have good performances in us

Saints and Tigers are in decline and I don't see much difference between the likes of Cardiff and Sale or Gloucester etc


Fair play, In that case I'd expect a few Celtic teams in the semi finals of the European Champions Cup.


I don't think having Clermont, Leinster, Glasgow and Saracens in the SF's is a ridiculous suggestion. Wasps, and probably Toulon, will be there or there abouts but along with Clermont have proved beatable this season. It all depends on who plays at home, probably

Also sugar daddies don't necessarily mean success - look at Racing this year and Toulon aren't what they once where despite having the biggest squad name-wise probably ever


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:56 am 
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Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:

True but Munster are very well placed this year and Leinster could surprise people and be one of the top sides again.


I think you're clutching at straws personally. The quality of players in France and England now are way ahead of the Pro12. On average, the overseas signings by Pro12 clubs are a few levels down from what we see in the Aviva Prem and Top14. That's what a proper league with a good tv deal gets you.

The next tv deal for the Pro12 will tell us where we really are. My bet is that it doesn't make a dent in the Aviva Premiership finances. That's where the real problem lies, and no amount of tinkering to the Pro12 will fix that gap.


Was Piutau not one of the best players in the AP last year? :smug:

Also, Coetzee could potentially be one of the best back rows playing in any domestic league in Europe when he gets fit

While I agree that the quality of over seas signing isnt good I think, Irish and Scottish sides especially, are starting to rely on them less and less and focusing on bringing through higher quality Irish (and Scottish) qualified players (which is paying dividends for the national side). Just look at Leinsters pack and consider how young they are all, and all Irish qualified


Last edited by Ulsters Red Hand on Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:56 am 
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Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:

True but Munster are very well placed this year and Leinster could surprise people and be one of the top sides again.


I think you're clutching at straws personally. The quality of players in France and England now are way ahead of the Pro12. On average, the overseas signings by Pro12 clubs are a few levels down from what we see in the Aviva Prem and Top14. That's what a proper league with a good tv deal gets you.

The next tv deal for the Pro12 will tell us where we really are. My bet is that it doesn't make a dent in the Aviva Premiership finances. That's where the real problem lies, and no amount of tinkering to the Pro12 will fix that gap.


There is definitely issues with the league, I don't disagree with you there. Saying Munster or Leinster's players are a step down from the French and Top 14 is nonsense though IMO. Both sides have plenty of top quality players. Killer, Kleyn, D.Ryan, POM, Stander, Murray, Bleyendaal, Zebo and Earls are up there with the best around. Leinster have McGrath, Furlong, Toner, SOB, Heaslip, Sexton, Ringrose and Henshaw. Again all players who'd start for most European sides


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:59 am 
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Kid A has done a nice number full retarding the thread.


Keep responding lads, he loves it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:02 am 
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sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:

True but Munster are very well placed this year and Leinster could surprise people and be one of the top sides again.


I think you're clutching at straws personally. The quality of players in France and England now are way ahead of the Pro12. On average, the overseas signings by Pro12 clubs are a few levels down from what we see in the Aviva Prem and Top14. That's what a proper league with a good tv deal gets you.

The next tv deal for the Pro12 will tell us where we really are. My bet is that it doesn't make a dent in the Aviva Premiership finances. That's where the real problem lies, and no amount of tinkering to the Pro12 will fix that gap.


There is definitely issues with the league, I don't disagree with you there. Saying Munster or Leinster's players are a step down from the French and Top 14 is nonsense though IMO. Both sides have plenty of top quality players. Killer, Kleyn, D.Ryan, POM, Stander, Murray, Bleyendaal, Zebo and Earls are up there with the best around. Leinster have McGrath, Furlong, Toner, SOB, Heaslip, Sexton, Ringrose and Henshaw. Again all players who'd start for most European sides


If you think the average overseas signing in the Pro12 is as good as the average overseas signing in the Aviva or Top14, then the very best of luck to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:14 am 
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Kid A wrote:

If you think the average overseas signing in the Pro12 is as good as the average overseas signing in the Aviva or Top14, then the very best of luck to you.


I didn't say that but cheers for putting words in my mouth. I said the Irish sides star players are right up there but most of them are home grown so its not all about overseas signings. A lot of the Pro 12 teams don't have the financial backing / crowds to fund that level of investment so they are bargain basement shopping and hoping they get lucky. Its better they do that than try and buy trophies with money they don't have like the Opsreys did.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:23 am 
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sewa wrote:
A lot of the Pro 12 teams don't have the financial backing / crowds to fund that level of investment so they are bargain basement shopping and hoping they get lucky.


Exactly. That's part of the reason it's a joke league.

Quote:
Its better they do that than try and buy trophies with money they don't have like the Opsreys did.


Can you walk me through that. If they didn't have money, how were they paying players?


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:23 am 
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I can't remember is KidA an anon multi or just a mong?


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:32 am 
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Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:
A lot of the Pro 12 teams don't have the financial backing / crowds to fund that level of investment so they are bargain basement shopping and hoping they get lucky.


Exactly. That's part of the reason it's a joke league.

Quote:
Its better they do that than try and buy trophies with money they don't have like the Opsreys did.


Can you walk me through that. If they didn't have money, how were they paying players?


Do you really need Debt explained to you?


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:33 am 
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I'd like to think the top 6 teams are capable of selling out most of there games. I know that nearly all of Glasgows matches have been sold out, with one or two falling short. Capacity for us at the moment is around 7400, but we're easily capable of getting 9000-10000 if we had the capacity. Scotstoun is a good stadium but its small capacity is starting to hinder us a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:33 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:
A lot of the Pro 12 teams don't have the financial backing / crowds to fund that level of investment so they are bargain basement shopping and hoping they get lucky.


Exactly. That's part of the reason it's a joke league.

Quote:
Its better they do that than try and buy trophies with money they don't have like the Opsreys did.


Can you walk me through that. If they didn't have money, how were they paying players?


Do you really need Debt explained to you?


In this case yes. I'd like to know exactly what the Ospreys did wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:39 am 
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Kid A wrote:

In this case yes. I'd like to know exactly what the Ospreys did wrong.


I didn't say they did something wrong, they gambled on big crowds in new stadium and it didn't quite work out for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:42 am 
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sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:

In this case yes. I'd like to know exactly what the Ospreys did wrong.


I didn't say they did something wrong, they gambled on big crowds in new stadium and it didn't quite work out for them.


What didn't work out for them?

You are aware that they have won as many Celtic League titles as Munster and Ulster combined, yes?


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:44 am 
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Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:

In this case yes. I'd like to know exactly what the Ospreys did wrong.


I didn't say they did something wrong, they gambled on big crowds in new stadium and it didn't quite work out for them.


What didn't work out for them?

You are aware that they have won as many Celtic League titles as Munster and Ulster combined, yes?


:lol: That was years ago fella.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:45 am 
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sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:

In this case yes. I'd like to know exactly what the Ospreys did wrong.


I didn't say they did something wrong, they gambled on big crowds in new stadium and it didn't quite work out for them.


What didn't work out for them?

You are aware that they have won as many Celtic League titles as Munster and Ulster combined, yes?


:lol: That was years ago fella.


So was the initial point you made about the Ospreys spending loads of money. You seem to be very confused.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:49 am 
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Not at all, I was however shocked to see you never made it past a QF in Europe. Thought you were better than that, apparently I was wrong


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:58 am 
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For all the 'big money signings' in England and France they aren't have struggling away to put Pro12 teams in Europe.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:01 pm 
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sewa wrote:
Not at all, I was however shocked to see you never made it past a QF in Europe. Thought you were better than that, apparently I was wrong


Me? Or my team?

My team has been in 3 semi finals thanks very much.


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 Post subject: Re: Pro12 Future
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
sewa wrote:

True but Munster are very well placed this year and Leinster could surprise people and be one of the top sides again.


I think you're clutching at straws personally. The quality of players in France and England now are way ahead of the Pro12. On average, the overseas signings by Pro12 clubs are a few levels down from what we see in the Aviva Prem and Top14. That's what a proper league with a good tv deal gets you.

The next tv deal for the Pro12 will tell us where we really are. My bet is that it doesn't make a dent in the Aviva Premiership finances. That's where the real problem lies, and no amount of tinkering to the Pro12 will fix that gap.


There is definitely issues with the league, I don't disagree with you there. Saying Munster or Leinster's players are a step down from the French and Top 14 is nonsense though IMO. Both sides have plenty of top quality players. Killer, Kleyn, D.Ryan, POM, Stander, Murray, Bleyendaal, Zebo and Earls are up there with the best around. Leinster have McGrath, Furlong, Toner, SOB, Heaslip, Sexton, Ringrose and Henshaw. Again all players who'd start for most European sides


If you think the average overseas signing in the Pro12 is as good as the average overseas signing in the Aviva or Top14, then the very best of luck to you.


No one is denying that the Aviva & Top 14 have more money & can therefore attract a higher calibre of foreign talent - however do these players make for a better league? - not really - don't believe the hype. The Pro 12 has been great entertainment so far this year - with a lot of teams looking to play exciting running rugby & this form has carried on into the European competitions.

In contrast the Top 14 (and Aviva to a lesser degree) are still primarily obsessed with physicality - and it results in a lot of turgid, attritional, shite games - which coupled with the Top 14's weird home/away mentality makes for a terrible competition imo.


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