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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:11 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Do Toyota have any competition this year?


Just between themselves it looks like. Not sure if they'll run two or three cars.

So this year is basically the easiest year in memory for Alonso to win Le Mans?


It's still a Toyota. :]

Seriously though it is in the same sense 2014-16 was the easiest F1 WDC to win. Or 1992. Or one of the Lotus years etc..

Only competition was their team mates and its the same here.

...or 1988 and 1989, or 1993, or 1996, or 1997, or 2002, or 2004.

Is it common place for only 1 manufacturer to compete in the top level at Le Mans, I don't believe so?


That'll be some of the etc..,yeah.

I neither know or care. I'm used to team mates being the only competition.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:44 pm 
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mas wrote:
Alonso turned down a two year Red Bull contract for 2009-10, apparently he wanted only one year. Vettel was then promoted from Toro Rosso instead and the rest is now history ...

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opini ... otor-sport

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

"Helmut is responsible for the junior programme and he’s been great at picking young talent – he’s only got one eye but it’s a good one."

:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Doesn't mean anything, you would have said the same yesterday but now you know one. You're going a bit overboard are you not?. Horner himself didn't class it as serious as the other initial talk. You could be talking about Alonso asking his manager to feel out the possibility over the phone. In fact going by the quote it could be exactly that.

If it happens great, if not who really cares?.

Horner said that he didn't class it as serious on their side as in Alonso missed the boat on the original offer, also I'm quite amazed that you are not astonished by what Alonso proposed?


He said the first one was the most serious discussion.

I found it interesting as I'd never heard it. No reason for me to be astonished, I'd be more surprised if he tried nothing tbh. I believed he was the one knocking on Toto's door as well. I wouldn't expect any stone left unturned in trying to be in the best spot. It's not a spec series.

The most serious for Red Bull, they already turned down the 1 year deal why take the 6 month deal plus I would guess no way do they replace either driver who both had a chance at the title.

He knocked on Toto's door to swap for the following season, mid season is crazy.


Still your interpretation, he just says the first one was the most serious discussion.

Meh I wasn't there but either wouldn't bother me.

Meaning the 2 year contract was the only serious contract that Red Bull would consider offering Alonso.

As there ever been a situation when a driver has approached a team mid season wanting to replace a driver there and then because it's a winning car and his car can't even get on the podium?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Just between themselves it looks like. Not sure if they'll run two or three cars.

So this year is basically the easiest year in memory for Alonso to win Le Mans?


It's still a Toyota. :]

Seriously though it is in the same sense 2014-16 was the easiest F1 WDC to win. Or 1992. Or one of the Lotus years etc..

Only competition was their team mates and its the same here.

...or 1988 and 1989, or 1993, or 1996, or 1997, or 2002, or 2004.

Is it common place for only 1 manufacturer to compete in the top level at Le Mans, I don't believe so?


That'll be some of the etc..,yeah.

I neither know or care. I'm used to team mates being the only competition.

I'm just showing that it's quite common place in F1, also it's not like either Rosberg or Hamilton walked into a dominant car as you choose to highlight 2014-16, unlike Alonso who is walking into a situation of having a dominant car.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:37 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Horner said that he didn't class it as serious on their side as in Alonso missed the boat on the original offer, also I'm quite amazed that you are not astonished by what Alonso proposed?


He said the first one was the most serious discussion.

I found it interesting as I'd never heard it. No reason for me to be astonished, I'd be more surprised if he tried nothing tbh. I believed he was the one knocking on Toto's door as well. I wouldn't expect any stone left unturned in trying to be in the best spot. It's not a spec series.

The most serious for Red Bull, they already turned down the 1 year deal why take the 6 month deal plus I would guess no way do they replace either driver who both had a chance at the title.

He knocked on Toto's door to swap for the following season, mid season is crazy.


Still your interpretation, he just says the first one was the most serious discussion.

Meh I wasn't there but either wouldn't bother me.

Meaning the 2 year contract was the only serious contract that Red Bull would consider offering Alonso.

As there ever been a situation when a driver has approached a team mid season wanting to replace a driver there and then because it's a winning car and his car can't even get on the podium?


Meaning exactly what he said I'd imagine.

How would I know?.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So this year is basically the easiest year in memory for Alonso to win Le Mans?


It's still a Toyota. :]

Seriously though it is in the same sense 2014-16 was the easiest F1 WDC to win. Or 1992. Or one of the Lotus years etc..

Only competition was their team mates and its the same here.

...or 1988 and 1989, or 1993, or 1996, or 1997, or 2002, or 2004.

Is it common place for only 1 manufacturer to compete in the top level at Le Mans, I don't believe so?


That'll be some of the etc..,yeah.

I neither know or care. I'm used to team mates being the only competition.

I'm just showing that it's quite common place in F1, also it's not like either Rosberg or Hamilton walked into a dominant car as you choose to highlight 2014-16, unlike Alonso who is walking into a situation of having a dominant car.


It is common, which is why I'm used to it and mentioned some examples. Not sure what it matters when you join a team, it certainly doesn't to me, and I highlighted more than that one.

Shock horror for including the most recent example in F1. :uhoh:

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
It's still a Toyota. :]

Seriously though it is in the same sense 2014-16 was the easiest F1 WDC to win. Or 1992. Or one of the Lotus years etc..

Only competition was their team mates and its the same here.

...or 1988 and 1989, or 1993, or 1996, or 1997, or 2002, or 2004.

Is it common place for only 1 manufacturer to compete in the top level at Le Mans, I don't believe so?


That'll be some of the etc..,yeah.

I neither know or care. I'm used to team mates being the only competition.

I'm just showing that it's quite common place in F1, also it's not like either Rosberg or Hamilton walked into a dominant car as you choose to highlight 2014-16, unlike Alonso who is walking into a situation of having a dominant car.


It is common, which is why I'm used to it and mentioned some examples. Not sure what it matters when you join a team, it certainly doesn't to me, and I highlighted more than that one.

Shock horror for including the most recent example in F1. :uhoh:

You seem to missing the point of what I'm saying that this year is the weakest LMP1 (top class) has probably ever been so is the ideal time for Alonso to try and win Le Mans.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He said the first one was the most serious discussion.

I found it interesting as I'd never heard it. No reason for me to be astonished, I'd be more surprised if he tried nothing tbh. I believed he was the one knocking on Toto's door as well. I wouldn't expect any stone left unturned in trying to be in the best spot. It's not a spec series.

The most serious for Red Bull, they already turned down the 1 year deal why take the 6 month deal plus I would guess no way do they replace either driver who both had a chance at the title.

He knocked on Toto's door to swap for the following season, mid season is crazy.


Still your interpretation, he just says the first one was the most serious discussion.

Meh I wasn't there but either wouldn't bother me.

Meaning the 2 year contract was the only serious contract that Red Bull would consider offering Alonso.

As there ever been a situation when a driver has approached a team mid season wanting to replace a driver there and then because it's a winning car and his car can't even get on the podium?


Meaning exactly what he said I'd imagine.

How would I know?.

Well I don't recall this ever happening before.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:23 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
...or 1988 and 1989, or 1993, or 1996, or 1997, or 2002, or 2004.

Is it common place for only 1 manufacturer to compete in the top level at Le Mans, I don't believe so?


That'll be some of the etc..,yeah.

I neither know or care. I'm used to team mates being the only competition.

I'm just showing that it's quite common place in F1, also it's not like either Rosberg or Hamilton walked into a dominant car as you choose to highlight 2014-16, unlike Alonso who is walking into a situation of having a dominant car.


It is common, which is why I'm used to it and mentioned some examples. Not sure what it matters when you join a team, it certainly doesn't to me, and I highlighted more than that one.

Shock horror for including the most recent example in F1. :uhoh:

You seem to missing the point of what I'm saying that this year is the weakest LMP1 (top class) has probably ever been so is the ideal time for Alonso to try and win Le Mans.


Yes and as I said only in the same sense team mate competition being the only competition is the easiest way to win in F1 too.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:26 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The most serious for Red Bull, they already turned down the 1 year deal why take the 6 month deal plus I would guess no way do they replace either driver who both had a chance at the title.

He knocked on Toto's door to swap for the following season, mid season is crazy.


Still your interpretation, he just says the first one was the most serious discussion.

Meh I wasn't there but either wouldn't bother me.

Meaning the 2 year contract was the only serious contract that Red Bull would consider offering Alonso.

As there ever been a situation when a driver has approached a team mid season wanting to replace a driver there and then because it's a winning car and his car can't even get on the podium?


Meaning exactly what he said I'd imagine.

How would I know?.

Well I don't recall this ever happening before.


Nor me.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
That'll be some of the etc..,yeah.

I neither know or care. I'm used to team mates being the only competition.

I'm just showing that it's quite common place in F1, also it's not like either Rosberg or Hamilton walked into a dominant car as you choose to highlight 2014-16, unlike Alonso who is walking into a situation of having a dominant car.


It is common, which is why I'm used to it and mentioned some examples. Not sure what it matters when you join a team, it certainly doesn't to me, and I highlighted more than that one.

Shock horror for including the most recent example in F1. :uhoh:

You seem to missing the point of what I'm saying that this year is the weakest LMP1 (top class) has probably ever been so is the ideal time for Alonso to try and win Le Mans.


Yes and as I said only in the same sense team mate competition being the only competition is the easiest way to win in F1 too.

Again I don't understand the relevance of what you said, I'm stating the obvious that if Alonso wants to win Le Mans then now is the ideal time because the WEC has never been as weak as it is now, this has got nothing to do with past happenings in F1.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm just showing that it's quite common place in F1, also it's not like either Rosberg or Hamilton walked into a dominant car as you choose to highlight 2014-16, unlike Alonso who is walking into a situation of having a dominant car.


It is common, which is why I'm used to it and mentioned some examples. Not sure what it matters when you join a team, it certainly doesn't to me, and I highlighted more than that one.

Shock horror for including the most recent example in F1. :uhoh:

You seem to missing the point of what I'm saying that this year is the weakest LMP1 (top class) has probably ever been so is the ideal time for Alonso to try and win Le Mans.


Yes and as I said only in the same sense team mate competition being the only competition is the easiest way to win in F1 too.

Again I don't understand the relevance of what you said, I'm stating the obvious that if Alonso wants to win Le Mans then now is the ideal time because the WEC has never been as weak as it is now, this has got nothing to do with past happenings in F1.


You originally said it would be the easiest year to win. I pointed out it is in the same sense any competition that comes down to team mates, (like in F1), would be deemed the easiest years to win. How are you struggling so badly to follow?.

If you'd written what you'd written this time I'd have just responded with "thanks for pointing out the obvious" or not responded at all.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
It is common, which is why I'm used to it and mentioned some examples. Not sure what it matters when you join a team, it certainly doesn't to me, and I highlighted more than that one.

Shock horror for including the most recent example in F1. :uhoh:

You seem to missing the point of what I'm saying that this year is the weakest LMP1 (top class) has probably ever been so is the ideal time for Alonso to try and win Le Mans.


Yes and as I said only in the same sense team mate competition being the only competition is the easiest way to win in F1 too.

Again I don't understand the relevance of what you said, I'm stating the obvious that if Alonso wants to win Le Mans then now is the ideal time because the WEC has never been as weak as it is now, this has got nothing to do with past happenings in F1.


You originally said it would be the easiest year to win. I pointed out it is in the same sense any competition that comes down to team mates, (like in F1), would be deemed the easiest years to win. How are you struggling so badly to follow?.

If you'd written what you'd written this time I'd have just responded with "thanks for pointing out the obvious" or not responded at all.

Again what has that got to do with F1?

It's a stand alone statement that I made about the WEC and Le Mans.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:26 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You seem to missing the point of what I'm saying that this year is the weakest LMP1 (top class) has probably ever been so is the ideal time for Alonso to try and win Le Mans.


Yes and as I said only in the same sense team mate competition being the only competition is the easiest way to win in F1 too.

Again I don't understand the relevance of what you said, I'm stating the obvious that if Alonso wants to win Le Mans then now is the ideal time because the WEC has never been as weak as it is now, this has got nothing to do with past happenings in F1.


You originally said it would be the easiest year to win. I pointed out it is in the same sense any competition that comes down to team mates, (like in F1), would be deemed the easiest years to win. How are you struggling so badly to follow?.

If you'd written what you'd written this time I'd have just responded with "thanks for pointing out the obvious" or not responded at all.

Again what has that got to do with F1?

It's a stand alone statement that I made about the WEC and Le Mans.


It's just a comparison of another Motorsport competition you could deem was easiest to win if it's a team mate only battle that year.

What's wrong?.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Yes and as I said only in the same sense team mate competition being the only competition is the easiest way to win in F1 too.

Again I don't understand the relevance of what you said, I'm stating the obvious that if Alonso wants to win Le Mans then now is the ideal time because the WEC has never been as weak as it is now, this has got nothing to do with past happenings in F1.


You originally said it would be the easiest year to win. I pointed out it is in the same sense any competition that comes down to team mates, (like in F1), would be deemed the easiest years to win. How are you struggling so badly to follow?.

If you'd written what you'd written this time I'd have just responded with "thanks for pointing out the obvious" or not responded at all.

Again what has that got to do with F1?

It's a stand alone statement that I made about the WEC and Le Mans.


It's just a comparison of another Motorsport competition you could deem was easiest to win if it's a team mate only battle that year.

What's wrong?.

Because you are totally missing the point of Alonso doing Le Mans next year because there is no other manufacturer competing in LMP1 apart from Toyota, you seem to have the need to divert attention away from this.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:23 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Again I don't understand the relevance of what you said, I'm stating the obvious that if Alonso wants to win Le Mans then now is the ideal time because the WEC has never been as weak as it is now, this has got nothing to do with past happenings in F1.


You originally said it would be the easiest year to win. I pointed out it is in the same sense any competition that comes down to team mates, (like in F1), would be deemed the easiest years to win. How are you struggling so badly to follow?.

If you'd written what you'd written this time I'd have just responded with "thanks for pointing out the obvious" or not responded at all.

Again what has that got to do with F1?

It's a stand alone statement that I made about the WEC and Le Mans.


It's just a comparison of another Motorsport competition you could deem was easiest to win if it's a team mate only battle that year.

What's wrong?.

Because you are totally missing the point of Alonso doing Le Mans next year because there is no other manufacturer competing in LMP1 apart from Toyota, you seem to have the need to divert attention away from this.


Good grief, It's easy to miss a point you never raised until now. No, I was responding to your post about it being the easiest year to win with an example from another discipline you could deem the same. I'm sure you don't need reminded even two horse races can be tricky little blighters to actually win.

On your new and I believe 3rd point already...I'm pretty sure its the first year Alonso can do Le Mans contractually but there you go deciding you know the real motivation for everyone again. He was supposed to go the year Hulk went for example but McHonda stopped it as they (Porsche) were competitors. He clearly used his contract negotiations to make sure that can't happen again rather than waiting until there was only 1 Manufacturer like you brought up for the first time here. He can't do Indy next year as they are expecting a competitive car in Monaco so Le Mans was always going to be the target as it didn't clash with the F1 calendar nor Toyota clash with McRenault.

I have no need to divert attention away from something you literally just created in your own mind and mentioned for the first time poker. I was responding to the "easiest year to win". Its you that seems to equate next years Le Mans being a team mate only battle means that it's easy to win, not me, and as I've pointed out I'm used to examples in other disciplines so what is there for me to divert from exactly?.

I don't care how you win personally. Having more manufacturers there but they were much weaker than Toyota wouldn't make it any harder to win. Having more manufacturers but they all retired during the event wouldn't make it any harder to win. Having your competitors in the exact same car is more than good enough for me in the absence of a choc full grid with equal performance.

It's you that seems to struggle with it so there's simply no need for me to divert anything but there's plenty of reasons to disagree with the sentiment it's the easiest year to win just because it's between team mates. And my F1 experience is a big reason why I disagree so of course I'm going to mention it.

And I don't care if that's an inconvenient comparison for you.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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