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Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?
Poll runs till Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:31 pm
A good-for-the-show-character prize at the end of season 10%  10%  [ 6 ]
None 32%  32%  [ 19 ]
Some points in the license 20%  20%  [ 12 ]
One race ban 30%  30%  [ 18 ]
Two race ban 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Season ban 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 60
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Not much explanation needed after his meeting with Ocon post Brazil racing...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:32 pm 
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I'm not the guy to ask. I've seen worse than a few shoves.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Well, he just got 2 days on the naughty step, so it seems the stewards didn't really think it was all that bad

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Probably a fine. This is the sort of bad conduct that really ought to be discouraged, but shouldn't carry a sporting cost.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:44 pm 
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The question should be "appropriate penalty for Ocon's actions?"

I can't get my head around the fact that people try to put any blame on Max and defend Ocon for this. He's got the victory stolen away from him. Ocon had no business whatsoever of going wheel to wheel with him.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:49 pm 
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RLKD wrote:
The question should be "appropriate penalty for Ocon's actions?"

I can't get my head around the fact that people try to put any blame on Max and defend Ocon for this. He's got the victory stolen away from him. Ocon had no business whatsoever of going wheel to wheel with him.

They're not talking about the on-track action. Whether Ocon was to blame for the incident (I think he was) doesn't matter - it's not appropriate to find him after the race and shove him.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:50 pm 
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RLKD wrote:
The question should be "appropriate penalty for Ocon's actions?"

I can't get my head around the fact that people try to put any blame on Max and defend Ocon for this. He's got the victory stolen away from him. Ocon had no business whatsoever of going wheel to wheel with him.
I assume that you mean Ocon;s actions in the race itself? He was given the blame, and penalised for it. This is about Verstappen's post-race response. Yes, he is entitled to be p***ed off with Ocon but no authority is going to condone getting physical about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:02 pm 
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I think Max should win the nobelprice staying this kind :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Verstappen is a fantastic driving talent, but a terrible personality.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:46 pm 
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RLKD wrote:
I think Max should win the nobelprice staying this kind :lol:


OMG

I guess you'd think the same if roles were reversed. Don't come back with some inane statement to the tune that Max has never destroyed anyone's race while being a lap or two down. Would love it if Perez (whom commentators, in a typical move, were automatically blaming) had shoved MAx repeatedly with whatever excuse he found out there... I bet some defending Max around here would be crying for his expulsion from the sport.

Disgusting commentary.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:07 pm 
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I'm looking forward to Max Verstappen meets Daniil Kvyat next season! :twisted: 8O


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:11 pm 
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The post-race altercation was nothing more than a bit of pushing and shoving. Ugly to witness but hardly worthy of any sporting punishment.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:12 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Verstappen is a fantastic driving talent, but a terrible personality.

:thumbup:

His attitude will cost him a title before his talent wins him one.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:53 pm 
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He is still young, but he is an absolute brat. He is very hard to like out of the car. It's not even like he is a bit of a c#$k but likeable.

I agree his attitude will cost him one before his talent wins him one.


Last edited by Badgeronimous on Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:56 pm 
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j man wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Verstappen is a fantastic driving talent, but a terrible personality.

:thumbup:

His attitude will cost him a title before his talent wins him one.

:nod:

They should make him stay in Brazil and collect garbage in the Sao Paulo slums.

There are eight-year-old girls in the favelas who could bitch-slap Max until his eyes crossed.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:33 am 
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j man wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Verstappen is a fantastic driving talent, but a terrible personality.

:thumbup:

His attitude will cost him a title before his talent wins him one.


That is why he has to learn to cool his jets. It is quite eyebrow raising to see him going all off on Ocon considering all the 'close calls' he's had with drivers going for the championship. What is the difference between being in the race lead and P16 driver having a go at you, and racing for the championship and P4 driver having a go at you? Hopefully someone points out the fact that his own actions have matched that of Ocon when seen from that perspective.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:51 am 
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Even if it was 100% Ocon's fault (Max was told on radio Ocon was on fresher tyres & would be trying to unlap himself), Verstappen has to stop thinking he's God. Even in Mexico, he bumped the no. 2 pollard after losing pole position to Danny.

His attitude just flourishes on his face. He's talented no doubt but when he gets beyond childish, the only thing missing is some Rouge from his face that would match his tantrums.

His attitude again didn't allow Ocon to unlap him. The way he closes the door on Ocon is questionable. I know Ocon shouldn't have tried to unlap himself during a turn but Verstappen should've been cautious & just seen in his mirrors.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:46 am 
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I went to bed directly after the race so I hadn't heard about this, but I am not surprised.
Someone acted stupid on track (remind you of anyone max?) and he feel the urge to assault them? To use Max's words. What an idiot.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:37 am 
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The punishment given was reasonable, I feel. Had he reacted in a similar manner while in the car a race ban might be the thing, but for an after the race and out of the car dispute, a fine and/or public service is I feel more appropriate than a sporting penalty would have been.

I understand that Verstappen was upset, angry even, but he had time to cool down and shouldn't have gone near Ocon if he knew he'd have trouble controlling himself. No excuse for that. (And I do see the on-track incident as 90% Ocon's fault.)

j man wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Verstappen is a fantastic driving talent, but a terrible personality.

:thumbup:

His attitude will cost him a title before his talent wins him one.


Indeed.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:04 am 
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Two days of community service. How humiliating.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:40 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Two days of community service. How humiliating.


I doubt it will even scratch the surface of his over inflated ego. He's still relatively new in F1. Once he achieves success, I hope he mellows down & doesn't keep being prudent. Loved Hamilton's input to Verstappen in the cool down room. Hamilton has learnt so much with experience which Max will do as well but I hope he does.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:58 am 
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Max deserves an award for restraint. Most men would have popped that silly Frenchman in the jaw for what he did during the race. F1 needs more young Max, not less.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:31 am 
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There are people who honestly believe that Max should have been given a season ban? :P I find that very hard to believe, some shoves and some foul language...

The community service thing is a good solution in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:53 am 
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This is a load of codswallop.

Even the wording of this looks to be designed to placate and, in a way, vindicate Verstappen and his actions.

It wasn't his intention to strike Ocon but he was "triggered" and that caused him to lose his temper?

Well if he went into the garage without the intent to strike Ocon, what the hell triggered him then to cause him to do it & does that go, even partly, any way to justifying what he did?

"While sympathetic to Verstappens passion"? What makes his passion so noteworthy above Ocons and why is that even relevant to the incident? What'd the guy do? Break down & cry in front of the stewards?

Is it appropriate? No.

He should have been penalised for the next race. Do you really think picking up rubbish on a roadside or cleaning dog crap at a shelter or any other community service for 2 days will make him see the error of his ways? No chance.

Verstappen only understands 1 language and that's the language of F1. Can we honestly say Dad, Marko & Horner will be saying anything to kerb his aggression after the handbags at 10 paces stoush with Ocon? Highly, highly unlikely.

He will only start to learn when his actions start to cost him & his team points & money & when his bosses & old man tell him to pull his head in.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:06 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:
There are people who honestly believe that Max should have been given a season ban? :P I find that very hard to believe, some shoves and some foul language...

The community service thing is a good solution in my opinion.


Didn't you know Max "assaulted" Ocon :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:43 am 
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A good spanking in front of the starting grid at next race...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:03 am 
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Back markers seem to be the common link for the Verstappens in Brazil.

Jos wiping out the race leader Montoya in 2001

https://youtu.be/R3G0C6cBUdw


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:08 am 
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I actually think physical aggression like this has no place in F1. My opinion of the red mist last year at Baku from Vettel was that it should have been a 1 race ban and this I see as a comparable incident - ie an act of physical aggression in a non-racing situation. Hitting drivers with fines and these silly community services days means nothing to them. Deducting points, race wins and finishing positions is the only thing that hits them.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:23 am 
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I never really understand this idea of unlapping yourself, unless you are massively faster and can pull a gap immediately then surely you'll be given blue flags straight away?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:44 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
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He will only start to learn when his actions start to cost him & his team points & money & when his bosses & old man tell him to pull his head in.


Well, yesterday he got all he needs to learn what it is to be the victim of his own sort of over optmistic selfish driver... But I'm not sure he's able to make any use of it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:34 am 
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But Ocon too is known to be cheeky. He's had an unpleasant past with Verstappen & Gasly too isn't fond of Ocon a la Mexico.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:12 pm 
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My goodness what a sense of entitlement and aggressive arrogant behaviour. Always swearing always someone's fault but his own. Would he have approached Mark webber or Schumacher like that? No this kid is a bully and has a reputation for this in lower formulas too.

In a close championship fight he won't be able to keep his cool. He's not a rookie anymore either. Hopefully he wises up, like Lewis has done.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Yet again Max shows how small he is in his head. Shoving someone for a race incident? We'd have fisticuffs in every race if that was the case. Getting angry with your team mate for getting pole? WTF?

I am not sure what will teach him humility. I still have hopes for him, but he is not a rookie any more and the "he's still young he'll learn" is starting to fade now.

His temper will cost him soon enough, more than a weekend of picking poo at roadside...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Phenomenal talent but he's incredibly hard to like as a person. He's got a temper he really needs to learn to control (didn't he say he would've punched someone after Ricciardo took pole in Mexico had they annoyed him?) and I even said to my girlfriend that Red Bull ought to keep him away from Ocon after the race, otherwise he's going to do something stupid. For all the times he's been in the wrong and refused to accept even the idea that it could've been his fault, it made it really, really difficult to sympathise with him getting taken out yesterday.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Reminds me a bit of Max v Lewis in Malaysia last year.

Max had nothing to lose so Lewis didn't want to risk any contact at the first corner.

I try so hard to like him, but he makes it so difficult every time he opens his mouth.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:26 pm 
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His Father was arrested in a Bar/ Pub brawl recently, so it seems the Apple does not fall far from the tree. Also I feel this should have been dealt with when he refused to give Vettel back a position from straight shooting a corner (I do not remember what race last year). Even when Christian Horner was on the radio telling him to give back the position, he refused. He then acted like a child when they told him he would not be on the podium. Max is a massive talent, but acts like a petulant child, and no one seems willing to have the hard talk with him about this, they are all enabling him. He sure does make the races more interesting to watch though.


https://autoweek.com/article/formula-on ... club-brawl


Last edited by ShaneM on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:29 pm 
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ShaneM wrote:
His Father was arrested in a Bar/ Pub brawl recently, so it seems the Apple does not fall far from the tree. Also I feel this should have been dealt with when he refused to give Vettel back a position from straight shooting a corner (I do not remember what race last year). Even when Christian Horner was on the radio telling him to give back the position, he refused. He then acted like a child when they told him he would not be on the podium. Max is a massive talent, but acts like a petulant child, and no one seems willing to have the hard talk with him about this, they are all enabling him. He sure does make the races more interesting.

His father also got done for domestic abuse, must've been a difficult and violent household max grew up in, which is why I feel sorry for him but clearly that has had an affect on his upbringing.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:38 pm 
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ShaneM wrote:
His Father was arrested in a Bar/ Pub brawl recently, so it seems the Apple does not fall far from the tree. Also I feel this should have been dealt with when he refused to give Vettel back a position from straight shooting a corner (I do not remember what race last year). Even when Christian Horner was on the radio telling him to give back the position, he refused. He then acted like a child when they told him he would not be on the podium. Max is a massive talent, but acts like a petulant child, and no one seems willing to have the hard talk with him about this, they are all enabling him. He sure does make the races more interesting.


You have to wonder if the people in his team are actually afraid of him, its a bullying tactic if he wasn't "at work" and hence on TV. How many people on this board would have let themselves be pushed 3 times and shouted at. Most of us would reacted in some way and some of us might well respond in kind.

In reality I suspect everyone will tiptoe around him because of his undoubted talent.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:55 pm 
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.

Max's behaviour was akin to the aftermath of a minor traffic snarl up and later as you get out of your car the other idiot comes storming up to you, assaults you, and behaves like an idiot.

Irrespective of what he felt at the time he had plenty of time to calm down.
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