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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Who was the last Championship player called up for an England squad? Any Northampton or Quins players when they were down there?


Chris Ashton got called up to the training squad a couple of times from Saints


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:08 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
Losers then as far as I can see (or fallen out of favour since the last A tour):

Tompkins
Woodburn
Ewers
Taylor
Catt
Ruskin
Schonert
Burns x2
Morgan
Barrow
Haley
Mercer
Spener/Robson
Devoto
Woodward/Marshall


Given that the surprises are all very young and Eddie has talked about needing to rest players (particularly Lions) for the AIs if he is thinking of the tour as much more experimental, bit of experience thing, and some of those on the fringes that aren't going will feature more in the autumn.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
Hasn't Addison been the best Sale centre? I thought he stood up well against Toulon and had a couple of other big games. He can kick goals too.


He's injured. Absolutely gutted for him as this tour would have been perfect. Bit harsh on what he says about Sam James as well :lol:

Anyway, I'd pick...

Genge
Hartley
Williams
Launchbury
Ewels
Robshaw
Haskell
Hughes

Care
Ford
May
James
Slade
Solomona
Brown

Subs
LCD
Mullan
Hill
Isiekwe
Wood
Maunder
Lozowski
Earle/Cokanasiga


With a bit of change in the second test, Curry/Underhill to see some gametime, with Mallinder and Marchant possibly coming into it as well.


Last edited by 45jumper on Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:18 pm 
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U20s are going to be facing a tough ask in Georgia this year, in a pool with Australia, Wales and Samoa. from their last 23 that narrowly beat Ireland to win the GS:

15. Tom Parton (London Irish), 14. Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish), 13. Dominic Morris (Saracens), 12. Will Butler (Worcester Warriors), 11. Sam Aspland-Robinson (Harlequins), 10. Max Malins (Saracens), 9. Harry Randall (Gloucester Rugby), 1. Ollie Dawe (Bristol Rugby), 2. Henry Walker (Gloucester Rugby), 3. Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby), 4. Jack Nay (Saracens), 5. Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), 6. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), 7. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks), 8. Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby) captain.

Replacements:
16. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons), 17. Ralph Adams-Hale (Saracens), 18. Joseph Morris (Worcester Warriors), 19. Justin Clegg (Worcester Warriors), 20. Josh Bayliss (Bath Rugby), 21. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints), 22. Theo Brophy Clews (London Irish), 23. Max Wright (Yorkshire Carnegie).

as well as Maunder who was in the 6N squad but now called up


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:25 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
U20s are going to be facing a tough ask in Georgia this year, in a pool with Australia, Wales and Samoa. from their last 23 that narrowly beat Ireland to win the GS:

15. Tom Parton (London Irish), 14. Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish), 13. Dominic Morris (Saracens), 12. Will Butler (Worcester Warriors), 11. Sam Aspland-Robinson (Harlequins), 10. Max Malins (Saracens), 9. Harry Randall (Gloucester Rugby), 1. Ollie Dawe (Bristol Rugby), 2. Henry Walker (Gloucester Rugby), 3. Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby), 4. Jack Nay (Saracens), 5. Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), 6. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), 7. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks), 8. Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby) captain.

Replacements:
16. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons), 17. Ralph Adams-Hale (Saracens), 18. Joseph Morris (Worcester Warriors), 19. Justin Clegg (Worcester Warriors), 20. Josh Bayliss (Bath Rugby), 21. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints), 22. Theo Brophy Clews (London Irish), 23. Max Wright (Yorkshire Carnegie).

as well as Maunder who was in the 6N squad but now called up

They will cope- they have Earl in the backrow, Hill at lock, Ibitoye, could fill at wing etc.
Make em work for the win :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Totally bizarre and disappointing. Sometimes wonder whether I'm watching the same games as the selectors. There appears to be some cronyism at play amongst the selection.

I get the wingers. We are well stocked. Solomona looks good, we already have Watson, May, Daly. Joe Coka and Earle look like excellent prospects. Still disappointed for Wade. You could say the same about the second row : we have Itoje, Kruis, Launch and Lawes for some years yet, so skip to the next generation.

Really disappointed about Taylor, Robson, Ruskin, Woodward and Mercer. Watched lots of game this season and to my mind Tommy Taylor is consistently one of the best players in any position with his energy, mobility, handling. That is a totally one eyed omission.

And then some of the players that are selected. What do the selectors see in Mullan and Hill ffs? Who the f**k is Collier, another pal of Hatley ? Maunder is average at best. The back row is lightweight, I don't see the Currys being athletically good enough ultimately at international level. Ditto Underhill.

I like the developmental nature of the squad, not convinced the right players have been selected though.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:32 pm 
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You don't half post some bollocks sometimes.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Quote:
There appears to be some cronyism at play amongst the selection.


That's a big claim to make without a single thing to back it up


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:34 pm 
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Lozowski at 12. Jones has mooted it before and he rather than Slade stayed with the squad when Farrell was potentially going to miss the Scotland game. Slade still looks better when he's at 13 for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:38 pm 
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TopNacker wrote:
Totally bizarre and disappointing. Sometimes wonder whether I'm watching the same games as the selectors. There appears to be some cronyism at play amongst the selection.

I get the wingers. We are well stocked. Solomona looks good, we already have Watson, May, Daly. Joe Coka and Earle look like excellent prospects. Still disappointed for Wade. You could say the same about the second row : we have Itoje, Kruis, Launch and Lawes for some years yet, so skip to the next generation.

Really disappointed about Taylor, Robson, Ruskin, Woodward and Mercer. Watched lots of game this season and to my mind Tommy Taylor is consistently one of the best players in any position with his energy, mobility, handling. That is a totally one eyed omission.

Mercer off with the U20's is no bad thing, he's only 19.. we are stacked at LH, no need to take two young'uns, Woodward no done enough, Robson ditto. LCD obviously liked better than Taylor- fine, they aren't not going to take Hartley

And then some of the players that are selected. What do the selectors see in Mullan and Hill ffs? Who the f**k is Collier, another pal of Hatley ? Maunder is average at best. The back row is lightweight, I don't see the Currys being athletically good enough ultimately at international level. Ditto Underhill.

I'd understand if Rowntree was coach- Collier regularly starts ahead of Sinckler fwiw, Hill is only 22 and showed great potential last year- Mullan going as mentor to Genge... a good technical prop.. sound decision

I like the developmental nature of the squad, not convinced the right players have been selected though.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Maunder, a kid who's just turned 20 and looks to the manor born at one of the best clubs in the country during his breakthrough season, is "average at best"

Twindaloos, who've been beasting people at AP level despite being foetuses, not athletically good enough

Not knowing who Collier is

Calling a back row featuring Robshaw, Haskell, and Hughes "lightweight"

*scratches head*


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:53 pm 
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just seen that Eddie Jones interview

he namechecks Mallinder as being looked at (initially) as a winger :?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:06 pm 
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He's not quick enough to play on the wing. He's been tried all over the place by Saints and it's clear he looks most comfortable at 12.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:09 pm 
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I'm pleased for Maunder, however, the continued omission of Robson / Simpson is disapointing.
I remain unconvinced that Ewels is worth persevering with in a position where we have considerable depth. Part of a soft Barf pack,frankly.
Ruskin must have been a hard one to pass over. Williams is a unit, but has the ball skills of Davy Wilson.
Finally Solomona . WTF ?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Backwoodsman1 wrote:
I'm pleased for Maunder, however, the continued omission of Robson / Simpson is disapointing.
I remain unconvinced that Ewels is worth persevering with in a position where we have considerable depth. Part of a soft Barf pack,frankly.
Ruskin must have been a hard one to pass over. Williams is a unit, but has the ball skills of Davy Wilson.
Finally Solomona . WTF ?


It wasn't a case of Williams or Rushkin


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:12 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
just seen that Eddie Jones interview

he namechecks Mallinder as being looked at (initially) as a winger :?


Quote:
Harry Mallinder (versatile back, Northampton Saints): "Good player mate. I think he can play 15 and I think he can play centre and I think he can potentially play on the wing. Big, strong lad. Good in the air. Massive kicking game. Kicks the ball 60m. Needs to work on his defence, but for a young player that's okay."


just mentioned as an option here? Funny no mention of 10 where he played in the JWC... Looks a good 12 to me, if he learns to tackle and punch his weight when he carries, will probably be Twelvetrees 2.0 though...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Backwoodsman1 wrote:
I'm pleased for Maunder, however, the continued omission of Robson / Simpson is disapointing.
I remain unconvinced that Ewels is worth persevering with in a position where we have considerable depth. Part of a soft Barf pack,frankly.
Ruskin must have been a hard one to pass over. Williams is a unit, but has the ball skills of Davy Wilson.
Finally Solomona . WTF ?


He's as English as either of the Vunipolae or Hughes. Arguably moreso, as he had to live in Castleford, and that ages a man...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Are your tour games on council telly? It's quite a fascinatingly random squad selection.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:17 pm 
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hp18 wrote:
Are your tour games on council telly? It's quite a fascinatingly random squad selection.


f**k knows. However, since you're here, "Dug Eaters" - why?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:28 pm 
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hp18 wrote:
Are your tour games on council telly? It's quite a fascinatingly random squad selection.


Think Sky has this wrapped up but can't find confirmation


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:45 pm 
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polyallstar wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
just seen that Eddie Jones interview

he namechecks Mallinder as being looked at (initially) as a winger :?


Quote:
Harry Mallinder (versatile back, Northampton Saints): "Good player mate. I think he can play 15 and I think he can play centre and I think he can potentially play on the wing. Big, strong lad. Good in the air. Massive kicking game. Kicks the ball 60m. Needs to work on his defence, but for a young player that's okay."


just mentioned as an option here? Funny no mention of 10 where he played in the JWC... Looks a good 12 to me, if he learns to tackle and punch his weight when he carries, will probably be Twelvetrees 2.0 though...


He's an emergency 10 cover only at AP level; he only played 10 at the JWC due to an injury, and largely they got away with it because the rest of the team was so good as well and he really was oversized to be a flyhalf. In my mind the biggest question mark against him at 12 is his defence, but that's something he can learn; it's been noticeable how much more willing he;s been to actually make use of some of his size and power in attack this season, which in turn is giving him more time to distribute or kick as well.

I know Dragster reckons that Saints want to move him to 15, and there have been rumblings via radio Noddy that's the plan as well, but other than the fact he can wallop the living shit off the ball I don't see what he offers from fullback really.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:52 pm 
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He looks a 12 every day of the week for me. Just don't think he'd be agile enough at FB.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:08 pm 
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*Mandatory moan about Wade, Robson, and Taylor*

Still angry :frown: I have almost accepted that Wade won't get a chance now, but why the hell is Robson not picked? The form SH in the Prem this year. He was scoring a try a game a few weeks ago.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Saint wrote:

I know Dragster reckons that Saints want to move him to 15, and there have been rumblings via radio Noddy that's the plan as well, but other than the fact he can wallop the living shit off the ball I don't see what he offers from fullback really.


That was last summer I think? But yeah that was a cast iron source at saints- I'd assume it was dad pushing it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:45 pm 
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HurricaneWasp wrote:
*Mandatory moan about Wade, Robson, and Taylor*

Still angry :frown: I have almost accepted that Wade won't get a chance now, but why the hell is Robson not picked? The form SH in the Prem this year. He was scoring a try a game a few weeks ago.


I've given up banging the Robson drum, everytime I watch him he shits the bed.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:47 pm 
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I'm starting to think all of this is some kind of spite mission against Wasps- picking half a dozen Sale players and 'overlooking' blatant Wasps poaches such as Taylor.
The RFU determined to show that playing for lowly Northern clubs does not prevent you making the EPS :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:49 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
*Mandatory moan about Wade, Robson, and Taylor*

Still angry :frown: I have almost accepted that Wade won't get a chance now, but why the hell is Robson not picked? The form SH in the Prem this year. He was scoring a try a game a few weeks ago.


I've given up banging the Robson drum, everytime I watch him he shits the bed.


It's not been a vintage season. Can think of a handful of times it's been clear they needed Simpson on the pitch. I think a few of those matches coincided with Eddie being there too.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:49 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
I'm starting to think all of this is some kind of spite mission against Wasps- picking half a dozen Sale players and 'overlooking' blatant Wasps poaches such as Taylor.
The RFU determined to show that playing for lowly Northern clubs does not prevent you making the EPS :thumbup:


Tell that to Newcastle....


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:50 pm 
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If he was raiding the U20s, Eddie should have taken Harry Randall for a laugh.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
plum-pudding wrote:
I'm starting to think all of this is some kind of spite mission against Wasps- picking half a dozen Sale players and 'overlooking' blatant Wasps poaches such as Taylor.
The RFU determined to show that playing for lowly Northern clubs does not prevent you making the EPS :thumbup:


Tell that to Newcastle....


Yeah, Mark Wilson is probably considering a move to Sale to increase his international exposure.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
If he was raiding the U20s, Eddie should have taken Harry Randall for a laugh.


:lol:

Image of Randall running with the ball towards an Argie front row with combined age of 100. Proper men against boy stuff...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:42 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
U20s are going to be facing a tough ask in Georgia this year, in a pool with Australia, Wales and Samoa. from their last 23 that narrowly beat Ireland to win the GS:

15. Tom Parton (London Irish), 14. Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish), 13. Dominic Morris (Saracens), 12. Will Butler (Worcester Warriors), 11. Sam Aspland-Robinson (Harlequins), 10. Max Malins (Saracens), 9. Harry Randall (Gloucester Rugby), 1. Ollie Dawe (Bristol Rugby), 2. Henry Walker (Gloucester Rugby), 3. Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby), 4. Jack Nay (Saracens), 5. Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), 6. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), 7. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks), 8. Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby) captain.

Replacements:
16. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons), 17. Ralph Adams-Hale (Saracens), 18. Joseph Morris (Worcester Warriors), 19. Justin Clegg (Worcester Warriors), 20. Josh Bayliss (Bath Rugby), 21. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints), 22. Theo Brophy Clews (London Irish), 23. Max Wright (Yorkshire Carnegie).

as well as Maunder who was in the 6N squad but now called up

They will cope- they have Earl in the backrow, Hill at lock, Ibitoye, could fill at wing etc.
Make em work for the win :thumbup:


I wonder if Leicester openside Will Evans will be available. He was so good in last years JWC he got called up to the EPS. Earl, Evans and Mercer would still be a very competitive backrow even without the Curry brothers.

plum-pudding wrote:
Losers then as far as I can see (or fallen out of favour since the last A tour):

Tompkins
Woodburn
Ewers
Taylor
Catt
Ruskin
Schonert
Burns x2
Morgan
Barrow
Haley
Mercer
Spener/Robson
Devoto
Woodward/Marshall


Plus Attwood, Mike Williams, Harrison, Roko & Yarde. Probably seen the last of Cipriani & Alex Goode in a senior shirt also.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:45 pm 
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ah yeah, Alex Goode. spare a thought for him, tries hard and love having him at Sarries but rightly gone the way of the Timmy


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:47 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
I'm starting to think all of this is some kind of spite mission against Wasps- picking half a dozen Sale players and 'overlooking' blatant Wasps poaches such as Taylor.
The RFU determined to show that playing for lowly Northern clubs does not prevent you making the EPS :thumbup:

Whilst blatant Saracens poach Lozowski is the find of the year.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:37 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
just seen that Eddie Jones interview

he namechecks Mallinder as being looked at (initially) as a winger :?


I doubt he's even quick enough to be an international centre. Last couple of games I've seen he's been caught flat footed several times. Another Luther, with better hands and boot. Reminds me of the lad junior coaches stick in the backs to run over the small kids, but you just know he won't cut it there when faced with as-strong and more agile opponents.

I guess you have to give Eddie credit for testing players like this.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
just seen that Eddie Jones interview

he namechecks Mallinder as being looked at (initially) as a winger :?


I doubt he's even quick enough to be an international centre. Last couple of games I've seen he's been caught flat footed several times. Another Luther, with better hands and boot. Reminds me of the lad junior coaches stick in the backs to run over the small kids, but you just know he won't cut it there when faced with as-strong and more agile opponents.

I guess you have to give Eddie credit for testing players like this.


He's got a fantastic eye for attacking opportunities, and is pretty good at executing them and even finishing them off himself when the situation calls for it. There's plenty for him to work on but I wouldn't be so dismissive of a JWRC winner


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:42 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
just seen that Eddie Jones interview

he namechecks Mallinder as being looked at (initially) as a winger :?


I doubt he's even quick enough to be an international centre. Last couple of games I've seen he's been caught flat footed several times. Another Luther, with better hands and boot. Reminds me of the lad junior coaches stick in the backs to run over the small kids, but you just know he won't cut it there when faced with as-strong and more agile opponents.

I guess you have to give Eddie credit for testing players like this.

I've seen plenty of int centres slower than Mallinder.
He's got a very good passing game too- in fact I'd say he plays nothing like you would expect for someone his stature.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:44 pm 
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I think he looks slow because he's so bloody tall. He covers the ground quick enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
just seen that Eddie Jones interview

he namechecks Mallinder as being looked at (initially) as a winger :?


I doubt he's even quick enough to be an international centre. Last couple of games I've seen he's been caught flat footed several times. Another Luther, with better hands and boot. Reminds me of the lad junior coaches stick in the backs to run over the small kids, but you just know he won't cut it there when faced with as-strong and more agile opponents.

I guess you have to give Eddie credit for testing players like this.


He's deceptively quick;his long legs mean he has a leg cadence that makes him look slow even while he's outpacing the opposition. The flip side of that is that sometimes he does find doing a complete 180 quite tough.

The thing is that for all his size he never did the bug bulldozer job when he came up through age grade - he focused far more on distribution, running, and kicking. It's only recently that we've seen him start to leverage some of the power his size gives him, and to decent effect as well, because he keeps mixing it up.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:51 pm 
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I think his biggest problem is he's never played with a good, experienced, reliable playmaker who can take the pressure off him. Almost every time he's played at Saints, the pressure has been on him to be the ball player, or he's been around flakes. If he'd had Nick Evans at 10 or someone like that he'd have had a much smoother development period.


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