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Who will be the first new race winner in 2020
Poll ended at Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:31 pm
Albon 35%  35%  [ 16 ]
Gasly 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Giovinazzi 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Grosjean 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Kyvat 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Latifi 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Magnussen 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Norris 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ocon 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Perez 9%  9%  [ 4 ]
Russell 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Sainz 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Stroll 9%  9%  [ 4 ]
There will be no new race winner in 2020 43%  43%  [ 20 ]
Total votes : 46
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:46 pm 
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Posts: 16773
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Still the team error came first which left him on the wrong tyres, but if you want to believe that the bigger issue with winning all the races would be driver error then fair enough.

For the record the strategy team also blamed themselves for the blunder.


Yes, the biggest issue was that the driver crashed the car. That's pretty obvious. Even the driver thinks he's to blame.

Still you initially replied to me saying the biggest issue to Mercedes winning all the races was the strategy team and not the drivers themselves, and bringing up an isolated incident which in itself was triggered by a bad strategy call disproves that?


I said it could be either.

As seen last season errors from the team and the drivers both cost wins.

In your opinion whilst the Mercedes strategists made fun of themselves by showing their road cars in the car park whilst it was raining and saying it looks like dry tyres, and let's not include an even worse error they made later in the German GP.

When it comes down to Mercedes losing wins driver error would lag a fair bit behind strategy errors and let's not forget the post I replied to that highlighted driver error.


As I said, it can be either. I don't really know how you can argue this.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33928
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Mercedes will have the pace to win every race this season, so only if both drivers cock up will someone else win, but as I said it won't be a new winner.

Maybe, maybe not, but that being the case any cock ups that Mercedes make, and there was a few last season, tends not to come from the drivers themselves.


It can be either. Driver error cost them a win in Germany for example.

These were the original posts starting with Covalent were you felt you had to comment on my post which merely said that any cock ups tend to come from the strategy team rather than the drivers, unless it's just confusion over the wording, should I have said mostly rather than tend.

Then to mention Germany which is a bit of a sore point for me because of not one but two strategy errors and then to lay blame solely on Hamilton, sorry but I'm going to respond to that.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 8145
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

Yes, the biggest issue was that the driver crashed the car. That's pretty obvious. Even the driver thinks he's to blame.

Still you initially replied to me saying the biggest issue to Mercedes winning all the races was the strategy team and not the drivers themselves, and bringing up an isolated incident which in itself was triggered by a bad strategy call disproves that?


I said it could be either.

As seen last season errors from the team and the drivers both cost wins.

In your opinion whilst the Mercedes strategists made fun of themselves by showing their road cars in the car park whilst it was raining and saying it looks like dry tyres, and let's not include an even worse error they made later in the German GP.

When it comes down to Mercedes losing wins driver error would lag a fair bit behind strategy errors and let's not forget the post I replied to that highlighted driver error.


As I said, it can be either. I don't really know how you can argue this.


I tried mate, I tried


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16773
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Mercedes will have the pace to win every race this season, so only if both drivers cock up will someone else win, but as I said it won't be a new winner.

Maybe, maybe not, but that being the case any cock ups that Mercedes make, and there was a few last season, tends not to come from the drivers themselves.


It can be either. Driver error cost them a win in Germany for example.

These were the original posts starting with Covalent were you felt you had to comment on my post which merely said that any cock ups tend to come from the strategy team rather than the drivers, unless it's just confusion over the wording, should I have said mostly rather than tend.

Then to mention Germany which is a bit of a sore point for me because of not one but two strategy errors and then to lay blame solely on Hamilton, sorry but I'm going to respond to that.


So we agree it can be either.

Hamilton's crash was the reason they didn't win the race. They were still on course to win even with Merc making bad strategy calls.

Basically they could have won with the Merc error. They couldn't have won with the Hamilton error. Hamilton himself seems to accept this.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 1562
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Mercedes will have the pace to win every race this season, so only if both drivers cock up will someone else win, but as I said it won't be a new winner.

Maybe, maybe not, but that being the case any cock ups that Mercedes make, and there was a few last season, tends not to come from the drivers themselves.


It can be either. Driver error cost them a win in Germany for example.

These were the original posts starting with Covalent were you felt you had to comment on my post which merely said that any cock ups tend to come from the strategy team rather than the drivers, unless it's just confusion over the wording, should I have said mostly rather than tend.

Then to mention Germany which is a bit of a sore point for me because of not one but two strategy errors and then to lay blame solely on Hamilton, sorry but I'm going to respond to that.


So we agree it can be either.

Hamilton's crash was the reason they didn't win the race. They were still on course to win even with Merc making bad strategy calls.

Basically they could have won with the Merc error. They couldn't have won with the Hamilton error. Hamilton himself seems to accept this.


I don't want to get involved with who was at fault but... Hamilton's mistake happened and then Merc managed to give him a 55 second pit stop. Would he not still have been in the lead if it had taken a more normal 10-15 seconds?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16773
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Maybe, maybe not, but that being the case any cock ups that Mercedes make, and there was a few last season, tends not to come from the drivers themselves.


It can be either. Driver error cost them a win in Germany for example.

These were the original posts starting with Covalent were you felt you had to comment on my post which merely said that any cock ups tend to come from the strategy team rather than the drivers, unless it's just confusion over the wording, should I have said mostly rather than tend.

Then to mention Germany which is a bit of a sore point for me because of not one but two strategy errors and then to lay blame solely on Hamilton, sorry but I'm going to respond to that.


So we agree it can be either.

Hamilton's crash was the reason they didn't win the race. They were still on course to win even with Merc making bad strategy calls.

Basically they could have won with the Merc error. They couldn't have won with the Hamilton error. Hamilton himself seems to accept this.


I don't want to get involved with who was at fault but... Hamilton's mistake happened and then Merc managed to give him a 55 second pit stop. Would he not still have been in the lead if it had taken a more normal 10-15 seconds?


I don't know but was that Mercedes making a mistake though or just not expecting Hamilton to arrive and not having any tyres ready or knowing what tyres to put him on?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 1562
mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

It can be either. Driver error cost them a win in Germany for example.

These were the original posts starting with Covalent were you felt you had to comment on my post which merely said that any cock ups tend to come from the strategy team rather than the drivers, unless it's just confusion over the wording, should I have said mostly rather than tend.

Then to mention Germany which is a bit of a sore point for me because of not one but two strategy errors and then to lay blame solely on Hamilton, sorry but I'm going to respond to that.


So we agree it can be either.

Hamilton's crash was the reason they didn't win the race. They were still on course to win even with Merc making bad strategy calls.

Basically they could have won with the Merc error. They couldn't have won with the Hamilton error. Hamilton himself seems to accept this.


I don't want to get involved with who was at fault but... Hamilton's mistake happened and then Merc managed to give him a 55 second pit stop. Would he not still have been in the lead if it had taken a more normal 10-15 seconds?


I don't know but was that Mercedes making a mistake though or just not expecting Hamilton to arrive and not having any tyres ready or knowing what tyres to put him on?


Yep that's a fair point considering where it happened.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33928
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Mercedes will have the pace to win every race this season, so only if both drivers cock up will someone else win, but as I said it won't be a new winner.

Maybe, maybe not, but that being the case any cock ups that Mercedes make, and there was a few last season, tends not to come from the drivers themselves.


It can be either. Driver error cost them a win in Germany for example.

These were the original posts starting with Covalent were you felt you had to comment on my post which merely said that any cock ups tend to come from the strategy team rather than the drivers, unless it's just confusion over the wording, should I have said mostly rather than tend.

Then to mention Germany which is a bit of a sore point for me because of not one but two strategy errors and then to lay blame solely on Hamilton, sorry but I'm going to respond to that.


So we agree it can be either.

Hamilton's crash was the reason they didn't win the race. They were still on course to win even with Merc making bad strategy calls.

Basically they could have won with the Merc error. They couldn't have won with the Hamilton error. Hamilton himself seems to accept this.

Yes which I said in my first few words but then said it's more likely to be a strategy error which occurred far more often last season, so your post came across as it being 50/50 otherwise why else the reply.

Hamilton could still have won after his crash but then came the second strategy error, also let's not forget a SC cost Verstappen the lead of the the race so no fault of his own, so the idea that Hamilton would never have lost the lead is somewhat moot.

Mercedes' second strategy error basically dropped Hamilton from 4th to the back of the field, from 4th place he would still have been in contention.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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