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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:27 am 
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Bottas has had another engine change overnight due to an issue with his new PU. Another penalty but obviously no difference to his starting position


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:37 am 
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Does Chuck LeCluck have an issue? No representative lap yet.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:44 am 
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Both Ferrari's losing shed loads of time in S3.

A good 7/10's


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:54 am 
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The Red Bulls deliberately exceeding track limits, will this be allowed in qualifying?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:59 am 
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Clarky wrote:
Both Ferrari's losing shed loads of time in S3.

A good 7/10's

I thought they'd sorted this problem out prior to Singapore?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:07 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Both Ferrari's losing shed loads of time in S3.

A good 7/10's

I thought they'd sorted this problem out prior to Singapore?


Isn’t the theory that due to the technical directives that they’ve lost some of their straight line advantage and have took some downforce off the car to compensate? Hence being poor in s3 here.

Just a theory that’s been suggested, before anyone bites my head off.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:23 am 
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FP3 done:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Really like the above graphic gives a good impression of relative speeds without having to do mental arithmetic!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:25 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Both Ferrari's losing shed loads of time in S3.

A good 7/10's

I thought they'd sorted this problem out prior to Singapore?


Isn’t the theory that due to the technical directives that they’ve lost some of their straight line advantage and have took some downforce off the car to compensate? Hence being poor in s3 here.

Just a theory that’s been suggested, before anyone bites my head off.

:nod:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Urgh Grosjean. He's so unlikable on track.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:02 pm 
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Ferrari farce continues !

I wonder who will blame whom ?

.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:03 pm 
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Ferrari / Leclerc - what was that?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:04 pm 
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How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:13 pm 
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Hamilton on pole


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:14 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?


Really need to crack down on this it happens all the time, far more challenging for the driver to get round a tight corner quickly.

More annoyingly there seems no consistency, sometimes they delete times sometimes they turn a blind eye even at the same circuit!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:40 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

Was Hamilton the only one?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:40 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
.

Ferrari farce continues !

I wonder who will blame whom ?

.

To be fair Vettel had Albon in front of him


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:53 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

Was Hamilton the only one?


No loads, esp the RB that has done it on just about every run. Maybe Hogweed only noticed Ham?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:59 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

Was Hamilton the only one?


No loads, esp the RB that has done it on just about every run. Maybe Hogweed only noticed Ham?

I know I was wondering why he only pointed out Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:16 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

Was Hamilton the only one?


No loads, esp the RB that has done it on just about every run. Maybe Hogweed only noticed Ham?

I didn't only notice one. He was just an example. verstappen also did, much wider in fact but didn't improve his time on the lap he did it. It actually cost him as he made a mess of it. Other drivers also did go pretty wide but to me it looked like hamilton did more so than others on a lap he improved on which was why i had it as an example. I feel that if he had kept both tyres on the other side or at least touching the white line, he will have had to go that bit slower which may have cost him a fraction. I actually thought more of the the drivers back in Q1 and Q2 that didn't get through did more tidy laps than the leaders. In terms of not running as wide at that corner anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:23 pm 
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I really hope that after Stroll's last weekend where he pretty much outraced Perez that he can continue looking pretty strong. He wasn't even that far of in qualifying last time out either. And today, there was next to nothing in it. If he can work over the winter and sort out his qualifying next year and beat Perez more often, I think he may change some people's views on him. I myself think there are better drivers than him (like hulkenberg) that will be leaving, but given he has the option of racing, it is totally understandable why he is here. I just hope he can keep up what have been a good 1 and a bit weekends so far!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:23 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

I did mention the Bulls were doing this in practice so don't be surprised if other drivers start to follow suit.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:25 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

Was Hamilton the only one?


No loads, esp the RB that has done it on just about every run. Maybe Hogweed only noticed Ham?

:nod:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

I did mention the Bulls were doing this in practice so don't be surprised if other drivers start to follow suit.

But they often introduce rules after practice. or at least warn drivers that they will no longer allow them to go wide. They seem very inconsistent here as some tracks, they do change things from practice to qualifying.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:12 pm 
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Understand the casual fans getting confused by track limits but they obviously don't care enough, but people in here?? The drivers obviously have input into where track limits give an advantage and they clamp down at tracks and corners where this is an issue. Verstappen clearly lost time when he went wide. I'd much rather see this sensible approach, then needlessly delete Max's lap when he has already lost time. It would just put people out of contention for the win, rather then a place or two further back.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:57 pm 
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Hamilton did go all four wheels off on his 2nd run but both of his runs were quick enough for pole and the first run was within limits.

Unlike Bottas in 2017 who went all for wheels off there on his only Q3 run to secure pole from Hamilton who stayed on track for his fastest lap. Did you complain then?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:27 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

Was Hamilton the only one?


No loads, esp the RB that has done it on just about every run. Maybe Hogweed only noticed Ham?

I didn't only notice one. He was just an example. verstappen also did, much wider in fact but didn't improve his time on the lap he did it. It actually cost him as he made a mess of it. Other drivers also did go pretty wide but to me it looked like hamilton did more so than others on a lap he improved on which was why i had it as an example. I feel that if he had kept both tyres on the other side or at least touching the white line, he will have had to go that bit slower which may have cost him a fraction. I actually thought more of the the drivers back in Q1 and Q2 that didn't get through did more tidy laps than the leaders. In terms of not running as wide at that corner anyway.


Yea I thought their would be specific reason why your example would be Ham. So how much was gained or lost by Ham and Max in the relevant mini-sections?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:14 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
How can they let drivers to so wide at the last turn? Hamilton went way off. No track limits or deleting times here?

Was Hamilton the only one?


No loads, esp the RB that has done it on just about every run. Maybe Hogweed only noticed Ham?

I didn't only notice one. He was just an example. verstappen also did, much wider in fact but didn't improve his time on the lap he did it. It actually cost him as he made a mess of it. Other drivers also did go pretty wide but to me it looked like hamilton did more so than others on a lap he improved on which was why i had it as an example. I feel that if he had kept both tyres on the other side or at least touching the white line, he will have had to go that bit slower which may have cost him a fraction. I actually thought more of the the drivers back in Q1 and Q2 that didn't get through did more tidy laps than the leaders. In terms of not running as wide at that corner anyway.


Yea I thought their would be specific reason why your example would be Ham. So how much was gained or lost by Ham and Max in the relevant mini-sections?

Well, i guess it may be the case that going here most of the time messes up your lap then as it did for Verstappen. I think it will only be a tiny fraction but i feel any drivers who go wide here and don't loose speed can gain a bit. Don't people be thinking I am just against Hamilton. It is the inconsistently of them sometimes having limits and sometimes not. I know that other drivers on this very track have done the same in the past and got away with it.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:51 pm 
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I think they have to find the right balance and for me penalizing everywhere is not the way to go. If there is consensus that gains are small at best then I'd rather they don't ruin someones race. Ultimately a stricter policy would favour the better drivers anyway so if they went that way I'd be confident Hamilton would be one of the key benefactors. But it allows drivers to take a risk to when the pace isn't quite there, so I think qualifying would become more predictable in the long run, with the best drivers benefiting, if they went that route. And I get a sense most think the sport is already to predictable.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:10 pm 
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I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:26 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.


Nothing wrong with Hams first lap; unlike a couple of the others in the top five.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:28 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

Somebody else it seems focused only on Hamilton, the track limits clearly were not being policed.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

Somebody else it seems focused only on Hamilton, the track limits clearly were not being policed.


Its even more amusing when you watch Q3 and see who in the top 5 actually gets a clean lap in and should be on pole if they policed all the corners as some wish.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

His first lap looked ok which i think was fast enough for pole. And yes others did do the same.

Some people seem to be thinking I am focussed on Hamilton when my first word were "why do they let drivers go so wide" I just mentioned Hamilton as the lap he improved on right at the last moment (where most people will pay attention) clearly he went off track and did go that bit faster. I wasn't specifically being against Hamilton. It was just an example.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:00 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

Somebody else it seems focused only on Hamilton, the track limits clearly were not being policed.


Its even more amusing when you watch Q3 and see who in the top 5 actually gets a clean lap in and should be on pole if they policed all the corners as some wish.

If they turned the side of the track into a wall like Monaco, then drivers may do it properly. i would like it if something stopped drivers from running wide and cutting corners.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:06 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

Somebody else it seems focused only on Hamilton, the track limits clearly were not being policed.


Its even more amusing when you watch Q3 and see who in the top 5 actually gets a clean lap in and should be on pole if they policed all the corners as some wish.


If you weren't good enough to keep the car on the track you weren't good enough for pole IMO. Of course only times using the prescribed course should count.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:06 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

Somebody else it seems focused only on Hamilton, the track limits clearly were not being policed.


Its even more amusing when you watch Q3 and see who in the top 5 actually gets a clean lap in and should be on pole if they policed all the corners as some wish.

If they turned the side of the track into a wall like Monaco, then drivers may do it properly. i would like it if something stopped drivers from running wide and cutting corners.


That would work. It would probably injure a few who got the corner wrong, but needs must. Still nice to see Ham doing a perfect first run with no errors. You must be satisfied that the guy on pole had the best 'clean' time as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:10 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

Somebody else it seems focused only on Hamilton, the track limits clearly were not being policed.


Its even more amusing when you watch Q3 and see who in the top 5 actually gets a clean lap in and should be on pole if they policed all the corners as some wish.


If you weren't good enough to keep the car on the track you weren't good enough for pole IMO. Of course only times using the prescribed course should count.

Were not all the drivers doing it?

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2014: Champion
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2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:51 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I just watched the pole lap again, and Hamilton was off-track in the final corner. Whether others remain on-track for their runs deliberately or inadvertently, it does penalize them if transgressions aren't tackled.
If both of Hamilton's laps were off-track, then he shouldn't be starting from pole position.

Somebody else it seems focused only on Hamilton, the track limits clearly were not being policed.


Its even more amusing when you watch Q3 and see who in the top 5 actually gets a clean lap in and should be on pole if they policed all the corners as some wish.


If you weren't good enough to keep the car on the track you weren't good enough for pole IMO. Of course only times using the prescribed course should count.

Were not all the drivers doing it?


That isn't the point. No drivers should be. I'd be all in favour of a rule where your time is automatically discounted if you leave the circuit.


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