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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:13 am 
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As per a rumour, Renault F1 may quit F1 as early as the end of this year.

In the recent past, there have been many changes within Renault including CEO's & now the French government has a 15% stake in the Formula 1 team too. Clotilde Delbos has been personally appointed by the French Prime Minister Emmanuel Macron, who never liked the idea of Renault entering into F1. Cutting costs also is something on their mind now after their dismal performance of this year & the nonfulfillment of their dream of becoming a top tier team to fight for championships.

If this is true, Renault's Daniel Ricciardo & Esteban Ocon face an uncertain time ahead of the 2020 season.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/49672/rumour-renault-to-shut-down-f1-program-after-this-season-.html

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:04 am 
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Haven’t they just recruited some new staff in a few key positions?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:23 am 
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I believe they have a contract with FOM that obliges them to compete until 2025.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:10 am 
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Make up your minds already.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:25 am 
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If it's true about the contract with FOM presumably they can sell the F1 to another party to take on that responsibility?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:26 am 
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Helmet Marko has already stated there is no room at Red Bull for Ricciardo. His thoughts are that Renault would be taken over very quickly. Big question is who would be in a position to take over manufacture of the power units?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:20 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I believe they have a contract with FOM that obliges them to compete until 2025.

Yes when they bought out Lotus they managed to secure themselves heritage rights payments for which they been receiving a substantial sum every year, part of the deal like you say was a commitment to F1 until 2025, they can't just walk away from F1 without some kind of huge financial penalty.

I heard in respect to the 2020 Concorde agreement, that in itself incurs a penalty of £100M per year left on a contract being ended early, so maybe in respect to Renault you might be looking at a £600M or dollar penalty?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Helmet Marko has already stated there is no room at Red Bull for Ricciardo. His thoughts are that Renault would be taken over very quickly. Big question is who would be in a position to take over manufacture of the power units?

Another manufacturer?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:19 pm 
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No chance. The 2021 regulations represent their best chance to make their return to F1 a success, and if they were to quit a year before that then it makes a mockery of coming back in the first place. Plus, as others have said, they've made key recruitments in the past 12/18 months.

Now if 2021 rolls around and they're still in the midfield (or worse) I could absolutely see them reconsidering their involvement in F1.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:50 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Helmet Marko has already stated there is no room at Red Bull for Ricciardo. His thoughts are that Renault would be taken over very quickly. Big question is who would be in a position to take over manufacture of the power units?

Being as that's the money making division for Renault Sport, that would likely continue if this woman decides to pull the plug. The F1 operation requires reinvestment of those funds in order to run it and maintain the facilities and pay the staff. The only way she wouldn't be able to pull the plug is if they procure significant sponsorship.

However, if she does pull the plug, i hope the FIA & FOM disallow their return to the sport as I'm tired of their In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/ No we're in… No wait We're Out relationship with F1. I'd even be ok with their engine being disallowed so they cannot benefit/profit off of F1. And in fact that's how it should be proposed to them if they threaten to leave. If you're gone, you can no longer accept F1 money.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:59 pm 
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Renault F1 are apparently investing big in 2021, to the detriment of their 2020 car. If next year is a stinker, then Renault could pull the plug on the operation, selling it to Pat Fry for a $1 and Ricciardo wins the championship in a FryF1 car, narrowly beating Max Verstappen who goes on to win 4 in a row with Newey's aero rocketship.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Renault F1 are apparently investing big in 2021, to the detriment of their 2020 car. If next year is a stinker, then Renault could pull the plug on the operation, selling it to Pat Fry for a $1 and Ricciardo wins the championship in a FryF1 car, narrowly beating Max Verstappen who goes on to win 4 in a row with Newey's aero rocketship.


Which would mean Ricciardo would win the WDC in his 10th season. Just like Button.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:37 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Renault F1 are apparently investing big in 2021, to the detriment of their 2020 car. If next year is a stinker, then Renault could pull the plug on the operation, selling it to Pat Fry for a $1 and Ricciardo wins the championship in a FryF1 car, narrowly beating Max Verstappen who goes on to win 4 in a row with Newey's aero rocketship.

:lol:

If the first part of your post happens, I am definitely putting money on Ricciardo for 2021 WDC.

I am still gutted I never put even just a tenner on Button becoming 2009 WDC when I first heard the news of Ross Brawn becoming Honda F1 Team Principal at the end of 2007. I can remember telling plenty of people to give Ross a year and then they will win the Championship in 2009.

But I never took my own advice and at the time the odds on JB being WDC in 2009 were around 150-1 I seem to recall :-(( :mad: :blush:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:56 pm 
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Quitting the sport doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We have a budget cap coming in and Liberty seem keen to distribute the prize money more evenly to improve the competition, with these changes happening on the commercial side a midfield F1 team could become much less of a financial black hole than it currently is. They are surely better off waiting this out for a few more years and seeing what the post-2021 environment is like.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:11 pm 
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This doesn't seem particularly likely to me. 2021 or later if they see no substantial improvement next year, sure, but this year just doesn't add up. At least I think it would be a poor decision, although that doesn't mean it won't happen...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:55 am 
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But hold on. Haven't they just completed a refurb of Entstone & Viry that runs somewhere into the tens of millions of dollars? They hired Marcin Budkowski who started with them at Baku last year. They hired Ricciardo for this year & for next year they've secured De Beers (not sure if that's a wise investment or not) & Fry (a wise investment).

Doesn't sound or look like the actions of a team who's short term future is uncertain. You'd think they'd want to give enough time to see how the fruits of the investment ripen before they decide to call it a day or not.

Whilst they've suffered this year, i'd most of it's due to a poor car design. The engine side has certainly shown a marked improvement over it's performance of recent years. There's definitely potential there for them to get up with the top 3.

Personally I think (or hope) it's Renault playing politics with the FIA though the floor in that hypothesis is that I don't recall Renault making any demands of the FIA. It's all internal with Renault.

Like any other team in the sport though, for me, if they do go, then good riddance. It just underlines my thoughts on Liberty (& formerly Ecclestone) & the FIA pandering to the demands of manufacturer & factory teams whilst shoving the true backbone of this sport, the privateer teams, out the back door.

I've said this a million times, teams like Merc, Renault & Red Bull do not compete for the love of the sport. It's a marketing exercise & nothing more & the sooner Liberty & the FIA stop kowtowing to the adolescent demands of these teams, start dictating to them what the playing field will be, & stop treating the privateer teams with scant disregard the better the sport will become.

I'm absolutely sick & tired of these teams being treated like mollycoddled little brats at the expense of the betterment of the sport. Every year at least one of them, & you can throw Ferrari in at this point as well, goes on with this crap about walking away for one reason or another. If they want to walk then fine, they can walk & they can take their stupid bloody engines with them while they're at it, there's other places that can & have built engines for F1 in the past. The sport survived perfectly well with only Ferrari as a manufacturer team in the past & it'll do it again give the right regulations.

It'd be an interesting exercise to see where Merc, RB & Renault end up in a favorite team poll. I'd wager they'd be nearer the bottom than the top, especially among the 35+ yr old demographic.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:16 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Helmet Marko has already stated there is no room at Red Bull for Ricciardo. His thoughts are that Renault would be taken over very quickly. Big question is who would be in a position to take over manufacture of the power units?

Being as that's the money making division for Renault Sport, that would likely continue if this woman decides to pull the plug. The F1 operation requires reinvestment of those funds in order to run it and maintain the facilities and pay the staff. The only way she wouldn't be able to pull the plug is if they procure significant sponsorship.

However, if she does pull the plug, i hope the FIA & FOM disallow their return to the sport as I'm tired of their In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/In/Out/ No we're in… No wait We're Out relationship with F1. I'd even be ok with their engine being disallowed so they cannot benefit/profit off of F1. And in fact that's how it should be proposed to them if they threaten to leave. If you're gone, you can no longer accept F1 money.


I doubt the engine department is making a great deal of money seeing as they have no CUSTOMER TEAMS next year? I think Renault are going to carry on still but I personally think a lot of damage was done to the brand post Crashgate, and it seems to me they have struggled to keep the best talent in the last decade at Enstone, since they used to have race winning cars.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:41 am 
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SteveW wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Renault F1 are apparently investing big in 2021, to the detriment of their 2020 car. If next year is a stinker, then Renault could pull the plug on the operation, selling it to Pat Fry for a $1 and Ricciardo wins the championship in a FryF1 car, narrowly beating Max Verstappen who goes on to win 4 in a row with Newey's aero rocketship.

:lol:

If the first part of your post happens, I am definitely putting money on Ricciardo for 2021 WDC.

I am still gutted I never put even just a tenner on Button becoming 2009 WDC when I first heard the news of Ross Brawn becoming Honda F1 Team Principal at the end of 2007. I can remember telling plenty of people to give Ross a year and then they will win the Championship in 2009.

But I never took my own advice and at the time the odds on JB being WDC in 2009 were around 150-1 I seem to recall :-(( :mad: :blush:


I won a few hundred on that one! Although I think that's why I now put ridiculous bets on at least one team with stupidly long odds each year (Toro Rosso to win the WCC this year, anyone?!) and have probably more than lost what I won that year since :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:08 am 
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When there is a rumour you first need to look at the source.

The source appears to have put together the idea from speculation and no substantive reports or quotes from anyone.

I'd take this with a big grain of salt.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:49 pm 
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oz_karter wrote:
When there is a rumour you first need to look at the source.

The source appears to have put together the idea from speculation and no substantive reports or quotes from anyone.

I'd take this with a big grain of salt.

Yeah reading a bit more into it, it is beginning to look like 2+2=5.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
oz_karter wrote:
When there is a rumour you first need to look at the source.

The source appears to have put together the idea from speculation and no substantive reports or quotes from anyone.

I'd take this with a big grain of salt.

Yeah reading a bit more into it, it is beginning to look like 2+2=5.


Maybe a slow news day at GP blog & they needed a bit of click bait to generate a bit of income.

Devoid of quotes & very heavy on speculation.

Meanwhile....... over at Mercedes

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/147110/wolff-mercedes-staying-in-f1-after-2021-not-a-given

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:13 am 
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Honestly I think if, Renault can't get a podium next year and can only fight B teams with no customers for 2021. Probably there is no point in being in F1 :? Best thing for them would have been to join Mclaren and have partnership with them like RBR Honda. I think they can beat Mclaren though but top3 teams seems out of reach for them.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:45 pm 
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It's a waste of money. So ill conceived to believe they could achieve the success of others on half the budget


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:26 pm 
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I call shenanigans. Leaving before the implementation of some of the biggest reg changes is ridiculous. Unless they feel they already know they’ll be uncompetitive somehow.

Leaving after 2021, maybe, but not before


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:46 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ8csYvI7Yw

I think they are going to leave. Official f1 video clearly deciding to skip them out to get ready for them not being there ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:09 pm 
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Charles LeBrad wrote:
I call shenanigans. Leaving before the implementation of some of the biggest reg changes is ridiculous. Unless they feel they already know they’ll be uncompetitive somehow.

Leaving after 2021, maybe, but not before


Just thinking about this last night, and read the article just then. It’s not entirely inaccurate. I mean, if Renault decide to leave in 10 years time, it is technically after 2019.

It’s like me saying Vettel will retire after this season. I’m right no matter when he decides to hang up the helmet.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:00 pm 
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I'm reading rumors that Mercedes too wil quit from being an F1 team, and remain a engine supplier from 2021 onwards.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
I'm reading rumors that Mercedes too wil quit from being an F1 team, and remain a engine supplier from 2021 onwards.


Really, so Hamilton is in contract negotiations, if he wants more titles does he stay or talk to Ferrari? Now if Red Bull had a Merc engine then Max could win!
You have to say though they can't all just supply engines of F1 becomes meaningless. Losing two major teams is not what our new owners want surely? Or is this just negotiating tactics around the new regs?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I'm reading rumors that Mercedes too wil quit from being an F1 team, and remain a engine supplier from 2021 onwards.


Really, so Hamilton is in contract negotiations, if he wants more titles does he stay or talk to Ferrari? Now if Red Bull had a Merc engine then Max could win!
You have to say though they can't all just supply engines of F1 becomes meaningless. Losing two major teams is not what our new owners want surely? Or is this just negotiating tactics around the new regs?


Some really cool rumors floating around this:
- Mercedes quits as a Works team & McLaren becomes the Works team from 2021.
- If Honda quits F1 after 2020, Mercedes would be open to supplying engines to Red Bull.
- Hamilton isn't ready to extend his stay with Mercedes until he knows the future of Toto Wolff within the team.
- Hamilton had even said he expects a good shake-up of the grid for 2021 (which may include himself going to Ferrari?)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:09 pm 
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So Hamilton in a Ferrari could be up against Verstappen in a Merc powered Red Bull.

or

Hamilton in a McLaren/Mercedes up against Verstappen in a Red Bull/Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I'm reading rumors that Mercedes too wil quit from being an F1 team, and remain a engine supplier from 2021 onwards.


Really, so Hamilton is in contract negotiations, if he wants more titles does he stay or talk to Ferrari? Now if Red Bull had a Merc engine then Max could win!
You have to say though they can't all just supply engines of F1 becomes meaningless. Losing two major teams is not what our new owners want surely? Or is this just negotiating tactics around the new regs?


Some really cool rumors floating around this:
- Mercedes quits as a Works team & McLaren becomes the Works team from 2021.
- If Honda quits F1 after 2020, Mercedes would be open to supplying engines to Red Bull.
- Hamilton isn't ready to extend his stay with Mercedes until he knows the future of Toto Wolff within the team.
- Hamilton had even said he expects a good shake-up of the grid for 2021 (which may include himself going to Ferrari?)


Add to these rumours
- Penske to purchase Daimler’s shares in the Mercedes F1 team


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Welcome to the land of rumors and unsubstantiated news.

Who knows, it maybe possible. But the impetus may come from another direction. The timing of the next Concorde Agreement lines up neatly with what is happening in the world of endurance racing. Out with the LMP1 and in with the hypercar.

Aston Martin and Toyota have committed to the new hypercar. This may also be an escape by Red Bull, they can drop Formula One and go endurance racing.

But what maybe the tipping point is that the other major French car manufacturer, Peugot, also committed to a hypercar. No doubt this has caught Renault's attention in a big way.

Auto manufacturers (and Red Bull) are primarily in racing for the advertising. If you win something big, and can translate that into advertising, and that delivers more sales, that is what matters.

What do the buying public relate to more easily, a bespoke Formula One car that has zero connection to road driving, or a sexy beast that you can actually see on the road?

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Aston Martin are the poster child for how not to run a car company. Their roadcars have Mercedes engines, they sponsor Red Bull but even casual fans know its got a Honda engine. They lose money hand over fist and thats reflected in the share price over the last year or so

The Valkyrie is exceptional. In the flesh its head and shoulders above any other car but even the dumbest kid in class knows its got nothing to do with a standard £150k car. The WEC is dreadful series these days, Toyota have just been handicapped to stop them winning. They would have been better taking the Valkyrie on a tour like the Porsche 919


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:47 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Welcome to the land of rumors and unsubstantiated news.

Who knows, it maybe possible. But the impetus may come from another direction. The timing of the next Concorde Agreement lines up neatly with what is happening in the world of endurance racing. Out with the LMP1 and in with the hypercar.

Aston Martin and Toyota have committed to the new hypercar. This may also be an escape by Red Bull, they can drop Formula One and go endurance racing.

But what maybe the tipping point is that the other major French car manufacturer, Peugot, also committed to a hypercar. No doubt this has caught Renault's attention in a big way.

Auto manufacturers (and Red Bull) are primarily in racing for the advertising. If you win something big, and can translate that into advertising, and that delivers more sales, that is what matters.

What do the buying public relate to more easily, a bespoke Formula One car that has zero connection to road driving, or a sexy beast that you can actually see on the road?

Image

F1 has far more fans than sports car racing, it also has far more media attention.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Charles LeBrad wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I'm reading rumors that Mercedes too wil quit from being an F1 team, and remain a engine supplier from 2021 onwards.


Really, so Hamilton is in contract negotiations, if he wants more titles does he stay or talk to Ferrari? Now if Red Bull had a Merc engine then Max could win!
You have to say though they can't all just supply engines of F1 becomes meaningless. Losing two major teams is not what our new owners want surely? Or is this just negotiating tactics around the new regs?


Some really cool rumors floating around this:
- Mercedes quits as a Works team & McLaren becomes the Works team from 2021.
- If Honda quits F1 after 2020, Mercedes would be open to supplying engines to Red Bull.
- Hamilton isn't ready to extend his stay with Mercedes until he knows the future of Toto Wolff within the team.
- Hamilton had even said he expects a good shake-up of the grid for 2021 (which may include himself going to Ferrari?)


Add to these rumours
- Penske to purchase Daimler’s shares in the Mercedes F1 team

From what I'm reading all these rumours are very much unsubstantiated.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:21 am 
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I think it's unfair if one guy (CEO) is changed who doesn't happen to like F1 and he gets to pull the plug just for the heck of it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:23 pm 
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froze wrote:
I think it's unfair if one guy (CEO) is changed who doesn't happen to like F1 and he gets to pull the plug just for the heck of it.



Think Renault shareholders might have a different perspective


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:21 pm 
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It's been a disastrous year for Renault. They are 5th in the standings but have been rescued by Racing Point and Alfa Romeo having massively underperforming second drivers. The gap to McLaren could have been absolutely enormous had Norris not been riddled with poor fortune.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 1575
Location: UK
Obviously not Renault but I wonder if there is anything in the fact that the Red Bull/Honda agreement has been extended BUT only for a year! That would mean that the end date, if it happens that is, would be about the same?


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