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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:32 am 
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Johnson wrote:
I’m in agreement with F1 racer for once, but I do want to see the onboards. That wasn’t Hamiltons fault and a big trait of the current Hamilton is to be over apologetic (unless it’s with Rosberg) and very self critical to his own mistakes. So his apology to me is more a sorry I lost you your first podium Alex.

The accident happened because Albon had no idea he was there so it’s not comparable to Ricciardo and KMag and in that incident Ricciardo understeered into KMag.

Albons pass on Vettel was great but for me, the race pace and qualifying was sub par. Yes it was his first time in Brazil and he is quite new to the car. But he has 8 races under his belt now. I’m not writing him off but he needs to find a couple of tenths in qualifying and race pace. I am glad he got the seat for next season and he will get a full pre season under his belt and importantly he knows all the tracks now. It will be interesting to see how that unfolds, I can see him being a perfect number 2 to Verstappen he just needs to find a few tenths that is very plausible.


For what its worth Christian Horner was very complementary about Albon, saying he is getting stronger every race and praising his race craft.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:48 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
The apology means nothing, it was just a kind gesture to say that sort of thing when he doesn't really care whether he comes 3rd or 7th in this race with the WDC title already in the bag. If this race mattered to LH, he would have been saying ''Albon was crazy to be turning in on me like that'' or words to that effect. So the comments mean nothing, all that matters is what the cars actually did leading up to the contact.

Also, Albon's comments afterwards showed that he is annoyed at himself for his driving here, leaving the door open like that and not really looking as he assumed no passing move would be attempted and he relaxed too much. But like I said, we can't look into comments too much, when all the evidence we need is in the footage of the incident.

At worst this is a 50:50 racing incident, but I am inclined to feel that you should be able to go for a gap if it's there, and this was not a Danny Ric. style divebomb either as Lewis was easily making it round the corner via a tight inside line as his car is snug against the inside of the corner and not flying towards the outside of the track.


I've just seen this properly for the first time with inboards etc, and I can't believe I'm about to agree with F1 Racer... but this was a 50:50 collision, Albon left the door WIDE open against a charging Hamilton who was perfectly entitled to have a go, and he was in part alongside on corner entry, in control on the inside and hugging the apex - he didn't run wide a la ricciardo on KMAG - but Albon didn't leave him the necessary room, and you can't leave the inside open and then go ahead and take the normal line, it's gonna end up in a collision.

Hamilton took the blame because he felt bad for Albon, as did probably majority of spectators, including myself, but hamilton really didn't deserve a penalty and Albon will have to learn from this

Saying Hamilton was "part alongside" is a little far fetched. His front wheel was alongside Albon's back wheel. Yes, the door was wide open for a short time but it was always going to close as Albon took the faster racing line and Hamilton was caught out. The only reason why this wasnt a Ricciardo style divebomb is because Hamilton realised he wasnt going to make it and attempted to back out. I say this as a Hamilton fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:05 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I’m in agreement with F1 racer for once, but I do want to see the onboards. That wasn’t Hamiltons fault and a big trait of the current Hamilton is to be over apologetic (unless it’s with Rosberg) and very self critical to his own mistakes. So his apology to me is more a sorry I lost you your first podium Alex.

The accident happened because Albon had no idea he was there so it’s not comparable to Ricciardo and KMag and in that incident Ricciardo understeered into KMag.

Albons pass on Vettel was great but for me, the race pace and qualifying was sub par. Yes it was his first time in Brazil and he is quite new to the car. But he has 8 races under his belt now. I’m not writing him off but he needs to find a couple of tenths in qualifying and race pace. I am glad he got the seat for next season and he will get a full pre season under his belt and importantly he knows all the tracks now. It will be interesting to see how that unfolds, I can see him being a perfect number 2 to Verstappen he just needs to find a few tenths that is very plausible.


For what its worth Christian Horner was very complementary about Albon, saying he is getting stronger every race and praising his race craft.


Yes, he has to say that because Red Bull made the political move of keeping Albon. Now Horner will need to keep putting a positive spin on his performances until it comes a time where he is forced to drop Albon if Albon does not manage to improve.

Why do I say it was a political move to keep him? Well if they dropped Albon for 2020, who would it be for? Kyvat seems too slow, and Gasly they weren't happy with and repromoting a driver who they have dropped makes it look like they were wrong to drop that driver initially, (I doubt Kyvat or Gasly will get another chance at the main Red Bull team to be honest, once you move in the wrong direction once, that seems to be curtains for you). Now they could go for an outsider like Hulkenberg who would be a bit of an upgrade, but they want to make it seem like their young driver programme is still bearing fruit, so therefore keeping Albon makes sense from that point of view.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:12 pm 
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angrypirate wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
The apology means nothing, it was just a kind gesture to say that sort of thing when he doesn't really care whether he comes 3rd or 7th in this race with the WDC title already in the bag. If this race mattered to LH, he would have been saying ''Albon was crazy to be turning in on me like that'' or words to that effect. So the comments mean nothing, all that matters is what the cars actually did leading up to the contact.

Also, Albon's comments afterwards showed that he is annoyed at himself for his driving here, leaving the door open like that and not really looking as he assumed no passing move would be attempted and he relaxed too much. But like I said, we can't look into comments too much, when all the evidence we need is in the footage of the incident.

At worst this is a 50:50 racing incident, but I am inclined to feel that you should be able to go for a gap if it's there, and this was not a Danny Ric. style divebomb either as Lewis was easily making it round the corner via a tight inside line as his car is snug against the inside of the corner and not flying towards the outside of the track.


I've just seen this properly for the first time with inboards etc, and I can't believe I'm about to agree with F1 Racer... but this was a 50:50 collision, Albon left the door WIDE open against a charging Hamilton who was perfectly entitled to have a go, and he was in part alongside on corner entry, in control on the inside and hugging the apex - he didn't run wide a la ricciardo on KMAG - but Albon didn't leave him the necessary room, and you can't leave the inside open and then go ahead and take the normal line, it's gonna end up in a collision.

Hamilton took the blame because he felt bad for Albon, as did probably majority of spectators, including myself, but hamilton really didn't deserve a penalty and Albon will have to learn from this

Saying Hamilton was "part alongside" is a little far fetched. His front wheel was alongside Albon's back wheel. Yes, the door was wide open for a short time but it was always going to close as Albon took the faster racing line and Hamilton was caught out. The only reason why this wasnt a Ricciardo style divebomb is because Hamilton realised he wasnt going to make it and attempted to back out. I say this as a Hamilton fan.


How can you say it's far fetched to say he was part alongside him and immediately concede in your next sentence that he was part alongside him?

He had about a third of his car alongside Albon at the apex/moment of collision, as per your own admission, so at that point you can no longer try to apex because you will crash, therefore it's 50/50. You don't have a right to the racing line if someone is in your way


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:16 pm 
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angrypirate wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
The apology means nothing, it was just a kind gesture to say that sort of thing when he doesn't really care whether he comes 3rd or 7th in this race with the WDC title already in the bag. If this race mattered to LH, he would have been saying ''Albon was crazy to be turning in on me like that'' or words to that effect. So the comments mean nothing, all that matters is what the cars actually did leading up to the contact.

Also, Albon's comments afterwards showed that he is annoyed at himself for his driving here, leaving the door open like that and not really looking as he assumed no passing move would be attempted and he relaxed too much. But like I said, we can't look into comments too much, when all the evidence we need is in the footage of the incident.

At worst this is a 50:50 racing incident, but I am inclined to feel that you should be able to go for a gap if it's there, and this was not a Danny Ric. style divebomb either as Lewis was easily making it round the corner via a tight inside line as his car is snug against the inside of the corner and not flying towards the outside of the track.


I've just seen this properly for the first time with inboards etc, and I can't believe I'm about to agree with F1 Racer... but this was a 50:50 collision, Albon left the door WIDE open against a charging Hamilton who was perfectly entitled to have a go, and he was in part alongside on corner entry, in control on the inside and hugging the apex - he didn't run wide a la ricciardo on KMAG - but Albon didn't leave him the necessary room, and you can't leave the inside open and then go ahead and take the normal line, it's gonna end up in a collision.

Hamilton took the blame because he felt bad for Albon, as did probably majority of spectators, including myself, but hamilton really didn't deserve a penalty and Albon will have to learn from this

Saying Hamilton was "part alongside" is a little far fetched. His front wheel was alongside Albon's back wheel. Yes, the door was wide open for a short time but it was always going to close as Albon took the faster racing line and Hamilton was caught out. The only reason why this wasnt a Ricciardo style divebomb is because Hamilton realised he wasnt going to make it and attempted to back out. I say this as a Hamilton fan.


If Hamilton doesn't try a pass because he thinks the driver in front may not see him and could just turn in on him, well isn't there always a chance of that with every overtake attempt up the inside?

What if Albon had seen LH and was prepared to give him space, (hypothetically here), but LH hung back because he was uncertain of this and so as a result he loses a half chance at making a fair move stick? That really wouldn't make any sense, so I'm sorry but I think you always have to make the assumption that the driver in front of you will be regularly checking his mirrors and anticipating potential overtaking moves from you, (even though you also know that a small percentage of the time the car in front will inevitably make a mistake and not realise, like here with this incident and also Kimi I think a few races back where he turned in on someone, both lap 1 in Belgium and also maybe late in the race in Singapore), and as the following driver you just have to approach every pass with that attitude and hope you are given space as 90%+ of the time you will be given that space. It's easy to criticise LH because this particular time the driver in front was clumsy and not looking, but that won't always happen and LH has to make the correct percentage play and give his rival credit for being aware of other cars.

In a general sense, I often see people post things like ''he went for a gap that was always going to close'' etc. etc. but no, that is not the case, the gap doesn't always close and we do actually see fair racing most of the time with space given, (for example KMag giving DR space during their incident). It's easy to say when commenting about a specific crash that what one driver did was wrong because it didn't work out this time, but you have to look at their actions in the context of all overtakes and what LH did here was not foolhardy as a pass was indeed on if Albon was looking and driving carefully.

Now had Albon given LH space on the inside, what I would then expect from LH is to not then run Albon out of space on the corner exit, I would expect LH to keep his car tighter through the corner and give Albon the same right to space at the exit as he himself was given on corner entry, and then we all get to see the two then battle into the next corner (if LH's greater tyre traction was not able to pull himself fully in front of Albon by the next corner).


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:31 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
angrypirate wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
The apology means nothing, it was just a kind gesture to say that sort of thing when he doesn't really care whether he comes 3rd or 7th in this race with the WDC title already in the bag. If this race mattered to LH, he would have been saying ''Albon was crazy to be turning in on me like that'' or words to that effect. So the comments mean nothing, all that matters is what the cars actually did leading up to the contact.

Also, Albon's comments afterwards showed that he is annoyed at himself for his driving here, leaving the door open like that and not really looking as he assumed no passing move would be attempted and he relaxed too much. But like I said, we can't look into comments too much, when all the evidence we need is in the footage of the incident.

At worst this is a 50:50 racing incident, but I am inclined to feel that you should be able to go for a gap if it's there, and this was not a Danny Ric. style divebomb either as Lewis was easily making it round the corner via a tight inside line as his car is snug against the inside of the corner and not flying towards the outside of the track.


I've just seen this properly for the first time with inboards etc, and I can't believe I'm about to agree with F1 Racer... but this was a 50:50 collision, Albon left the door WIDE open against a charging Hamilton who was perfectly entitled to have a go, and he was in part alongside on corner entry, in control on the inside and hugging the apex - he didn't run wide a la ricciardo on KMAG - but Albon didn't leave him the necessary room, and you can't leave the inside open and then go ahead and take the normal line, it's gonna end up in a collision.

Hamilton took the blame because he felt bad for Albon, as did probably majority of spectators, including myself, but hamilton really didn't deserve a penalty and Albon will have to learn from this

Saying Hamilton was "part alongside" is a little far fetched. His front wheel was alongside Albon's back wheel. Yes, the door was wide open for a short time but it was always going to close as Albon took the faster racing line and Hamilton was caught out. The only reason why this wasnt a Ricciardo style divebomb is because Hamilton realised he wasnt going to make it and attempted to back out. I say this as a Hamilton fan.


How can you say it's far fetched to say he was part alongside him and immediately concede in your next sentence that he was part alongside him?

He had about a third of his car alongside Albon at the apex/moment of collision, as per your own admission, so at that point you can no longer try to apex because you will crash, therefore it's 50/50. You don't have a right to the racing line if someone is in your way


Exactly. About a third of LH's car was alongside, and that was at the apex. By the corner exit, with LH's better tyres and acceleration I would expect LH to be almost fully alongside Albon, and then after the short run down to the next corner LH could very well be a car length ahead of Albon by that point and the move would be completed. So a pass was on here, so long as Albon gave LH space. If Albon wanted the right to the inside apex, he needed to move his car over way earlier than that and block the inside line fully with his car, but he didn't do that, he left the door open with a huge gap to his inside instead, and LH wanted to punish this error with a great pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:07 pm 
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Thinking about it, Albon probably would have re-passed him with DRS on the main straight too. Unless Hamilton got DRS from Max


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Thinking about it, Albon probably would have re-passed him with DRS on the main straight too. Unless Hamilton got DRS from Max


Maybe so, but obviously it's not relevant to the incident in question. With LH's better speed and tyre advantage, I doubt Albon would have repassed him on the main straight to be honest, he would have been too scared about risking losing his podium.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:59 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Thinking about it, Albon probably would have re-passed him with DRS on the main straight too. Unless Hamilton got DRS from Max


He probably would have if he conceeded the corner


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:49 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Thinking about it, Albon probably would have re-passed him with DRS on the main straight too. Unless Hamilton got DRS from Max


He probably would have if he conceeded the corner


Albon has not ever passed one of the top 5 in the WDC in a normal racing move* has he? Yet we suddenly assume that he would despite the other driver having better tyres and being a better racer?

*The Vettel pass from yesterday does not count as it was from a SC restart, therefore not requiring Albon to be on Vettel's gearbox out of the last corner purely as a result of Albon's own pace, he needed the race leader to be playing games at the SC restart to help get the move done.

Also, would Albon have even had DRS when it was only one lap after the SC came in?


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:27 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Thinking about it, Albon probably would have re-passed him with DRS on the main straight too. Unless Hamilton got DRS from Max


He probably would have if he conceeded the corner


Albon has not ever passed one of the top 5 in the WDC in a normal racing move* has he? Yet we suddenly assume that he would despite the other driver having better tyres and being a better racer?

*The Vettel pass from yesterday does not count as it was from a SC restart, therefore not requiring Albon to be on Vettel's gearbox out of the last corner purely as a result of Albon's own pace, he needed the race leader to be playing games at the SC restart to help get the move done.

Also, would Albon have even had DRS when it was only one lap after the SC came in?


Right but with slipstream and Merc being down on power he probably could have gotten back passed to be fair


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:37 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Thinking about it, Albon probably would have re-passed him with DRS on the main straight too. Unless Hamilton got DRS from Max


He probably would have if he conceeded the corner


Albon has not ever passed one of the top 5 in the WDC in a normal racing move* has he? Yet we suddenly assume that he would despite the other driver having better tyres and being a better racer?

*The Vettel pass from yesterday does not count as it was from a SC restart, therefore not requiring Albon to be on Vettel's gearbox out of the last corner purely as a result of Albon's own pace, he needed the race leader to be playing games at the SC restart to help get the move done.

Also, would Albon have even had DRS when it was only one lap after the SC came in?


Right but with slipstream and Merc being down on power he probably could have gotten back passed to be fair


Not when he had worse tyres and LH was clearly lapping faster at this point.

For the final race phase after the second safety car, LH had the fastest package on the circuit. You really think that Albon, without DRS, would be able to pass the fastest package at that time, when his pace was only on for a distant 6th, (5th after VB blows up), in a totally pure race? No chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:42 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Thinking about it, Albon probably would have re-passed him with DRS on the main straight too. Unless Hamilton got DRS from Max


He probably would have if he conceeded the corner


Albon has not ever passed one of the top 5 in the WDC in a normal racing move* has he? Yet we suddenly assume that he would despite the other driver having better tyres and being a better racer?

*The Vettel pass from yesterday does not count as it was from a SC restart, therefore not requiring Albon to be on Vettel's gearbox out of the last corner purely as a result of Albon's own pace, he needed the race leader to be playing games at the SC restart to help get the move done.

Also, would Albon have even had DRS when it was only one lap after the SC came in?


Right but with slipstream and Merc being down on power he probably could have gotten back passed to be fair


Not when he had worse tyres and LH was clearly lapping faster at this point.

For the final race phase after the second safety car, LH had the fastest package on the circuit. You really think that Albon, without DRS, would be able to pass the fastest package at that time, when his pace was only on for a distant 6th, (5th after VB blows up), in a totally pure race? No chance.


Hmm forgot about DRS being disabled, would have been close, if they went through the final turn side by side then probably Albon would have maintained position due to the superior power down the straight but otherwise he probably wouldnt then


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:46 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Albon has not ever passed one of the top 5 in the WDC in a normal racing move* has he? Yet we suddenly assume that he would despite the other driver having better tyres and being a better racer?

*The Vettel pass from yesterday does not count as it was from a SC restart, therefore not requiring Albon to be on Vettel's gearbox out of the last corner purely as a result of Albon's own pace, he needed the race leader to be playing games at the SC restart to help get the move done.

Also, would Albon have even had DRS when it was only one lap after the SC came in?


Right but with slipstream and Merc being down on power he probably could have gotten back passed to be fair


Not when he had worse tyres and LH was clearly lapping faster at this point.

For the final race phase after the second safety car, LH had the fastest package on the circuit. You really think that Albon, without DRS, would be able to pass the fastest package at that time, when his pace was only on for a distant 6th, (5th after VB blows up), in a totally pure race? No chance.


Hmm forgot about DRS being disabled, would have been close, if they went through the final turn side by side then probably Albon would have maintained position due to the superior power down the straight but otherwise he probably wouldnt then


They almost certainly wouldn't have been going through the last turn side by side, as LH tried a pass at the third to last corner and would have completed the move during the second to last corner at the latest and been fully ahead going down that short little straight towards the last corner, so yeah, no chance for Albon to re-pass him really.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:34 pm 
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Oh wow, Albon is 0.6 seconds off Max in qualifying and behind both Ferrari's so it's costing the team unnecessary points with him being this slow.

Am I still the only one on this forum that is against Albon or are other people starting to join me?


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:38 pm 
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I don't think anybody is particularly against you or for you, I think majority of people are saying it's way to soon to make a judgement call and it's unfair to expect a rookie to come into a team halfway through the season and beat max


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:44 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
I don't think anybody is particularly against you or for you, I think majority of people are saying it's way to soon to make a judgement call and it's unfair to expect a rookie to come into a team halfway through the season and beat max


He doesn't need to beat Max, he just needs to be within about 0.3 seconds of him and be competitive on race day.

Only one lap in Japan Q3 did he look on Max's pace, but in the race he was still slow. He's not really shown any pace anywhere in 9 events now. That's really poor, he's had lots of opportunities to at least show something that you could hang your hat on for the future, but he's been very bad on the whole.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:49 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Oh wow, Albon is 0.6 seconds off Max in qualifying and behind both Ferrari's so it's costing the team unnecessary points with him being this slow.

Am I still the only one on this forum that is against Albon or are other people starting to join me?


If Albon never gets any closer to Max you still won't be right.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:56 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Oh wow, Albon is 0.6 seconds off Max in qualifying and behind both Ferrari's so it's costing the team unnecessary points with him being this slow.

Am I still the only one on this forum that is against Albon or are other people starting to join me?


If Albon never gets any closer to Max you still won't be right.


Of course I will be, stop being silly.

Otherwise you are basically saying that it is impossible for me to be right here which is just ludicrous.

I can at least accept that others will be right if Albon does eventually start showing some big improvements next year and is a solid and usable number two driver for Red Bull.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:09 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Oh wow, Albon is 0.6 seconds off Max in qualifying and behind both Ferrari's so it's costing the team unnecessary points with him being this slow.

Am I still the only one on this forum that is against Albon or are other people starting to join me?


If Albon never gets any closer to Max you still won't be right.


Of course I will be, stop being silly.

Otherwise you are basically saying that it is impossible for me to be right here which is just ludicrous.

I can at least accept that others will be right if Albon does eventually start showing some big improvements next year and is a solid and usable number two driver for Red Bull.


It is impossible.

You seem to be under the misapprehension people disagreeing with think Albon will be a superstar. That isn't the point. The point is the stage you wrote him off was far too soon and you didn't have the tools to make that judgement at the time. Albon being rubbish won't change that.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:13 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Otherwise you are basically saying that it is impossible for me to be right here which is just ludicrous.

I think the problem is that your dislike of Albon is clearly personal rather than anything to do with his on-track performance, so it's not going to look any more rational and well-reasoned even if you turn out to be correct about his pace.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:15 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Oh wow, Albon is 0.6 seconds off Max in qualifying and behind both Ferrari's so it's costing the team unnecessary points with him being this slow.

Am I still the only one on this forum that is against Albon or are other people starting to join me?


If Albon never gets any closer to Max you still won't be right.


Of course I will be, stop being silly.

Otherwise you are basically saying that it is impossible for me to be right here which is just ludicrous.

I can at least accept that others will be right if Albon does eventually start showing some big improvements next year and is a solid and usable number two driver for Red Bull.


It is impossible.

You seem to be under the misapprehension people disagreeing with think Albon will be a superstar. That isn't the point. The point is the stage you wrote him off was far too soon and you didn't have the tools to make that judgement at the time. Albon being rubbish won't change that.


No, you are making up that I think others expect Albon to be a superstar, I don't think anyone has ever said that. They do however expect him to 'come good', i.e. be decent and at least usuable as a respectable number two driver, just like I said in my last post.

I don't think I did write him off too soon, as I have watched F1 long enough now to know when a driver looks talented or not, and with Albon I could sense very early on that things just seemed 'off' with him. Again I may be proven wrong but I don't think so.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:21 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
12 days ago.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red-bull-kvyat/4503927/

The guys nothing but an evil cretin.


Don;t like language like that, specially with competitive drivers!


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:30 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Oh wow, Albon is 0.6 seconds off Max in qualifying and behind both Ferrari's so it's costing the team unnecessary points with him being this slow.

Am I still the only one on this forum that is against Albon or are other people starting to join me?

Under 0.4 would have been a decent performance. 0.540 behind is a little high but still not a bad performance. All the things still hold, he is a rookie, first time at the track and Max is one of the fastest in F1.

So long as he can qualify 0.250-0.350 within Max next year then Red Bull will be happy.

The judgement comes in the first few races next season, then there is no room to hide.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:29 am 
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Noni wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
12 days ago.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red-bull-kvyat/4503927/

The guys nothing but an evil cretin.


Don;t like language like that, specially with competitive drivers!


My language or Marko's?

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:31 pm 
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On one hand Marko said some nasty things about Gasly.

On the other he picked him up as a kid, funded his way through the junior ranks, put him in a STR then gave him the chance to drive one of the best cars on the grid. When he disappointed he demoted him back to the junior F1 team rather than leaving him out of F1.

I don't think he's evil.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:37 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
I don't think anybody is particularly against you or for you, I think majority of people are saying it's way to soon to make a judgement call and it's unfair to expect a rookie to come into a team halfway through the season and beat max


He doesn't need to beat Max, he just needs to be within about 0.3 seconds of him and be competitive on race day.

Only one lap in Japan Q3 did he look on Max's pace, but in the race he was still slow. He's not really shown any pace anywhere in 9 events now. That's really poor, he's had lots of opportunities to at least show something that you could hang your hat on for the future, but he's been very bad on the whole.

I agree with the level you are setting for Albon but you don't take into account his inexperience in respect to this season, that's a target that needs setting for next season.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
I don't think anybody is particularly against you or for you, I think majority of people are saying it's way to soon to make a judgement call and it's unfair to expect a rookie to come into a team halfway through the season and beat max


He doesn't need to beat Max, he just needs to be within about 0.3 seconds of him and be competitive on race day.

Only one lap in Japan Q3 did he look on Max's pace, but in the race he was still slow. He's not really shown any pace anywhere in 9 events now. That's really poor, he's had lots of opportunities to at least show something that you could hang your hat on for the future, but he's been very bad on the whole.

I agree with the level you are setting for Albon but you don't take into account his inexperience in respect to this season, that's a target that needs setting for next season.


He had 12 races under his belt at Torro Rosso and a full pre-season with that team don't forget. This would help provide him with a platform when going into this 9 race stint at Red Bull where let's be honest he has been woeful, with essentially 'inexperience' being the only possible excuse to save him at this point.

People say that he needs to deliver from the start of next season, but that is only really some simulator work and a few test sessions away. It's not like he really has long now to rmake some huge strides in performance, yet the majority of people posting in this thread are confident that he will be able to do this.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:00 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
I don't think anybody is particularly against you or for you, I think majority of people are saying it's way to soon to make a judgement call and it's unfair to expect a rookie to come into a team halfway through the season and beat max


He doesn't need to beat Max, he just needs to be within about 0.3 seconds of him and be competitive on race day.

Only one lap in Japan Q3 did he look on Max's pace, but in the race he was still slow. He's not really shown any pace anywhere in 9 events now. That's really poor, he's had lots of opportunities to at least show something that you could hang your hat on for the future, but he's been very bad on the whole.


IMO Max is the fastest driver. So he is probably 0.2secs faster than anyone in F1 anyways. Moreover I think the car suits Max and that make a big difference too. Albon, Gasly and Kvyat IMO are quite evenly matched but since Albon is youngest he is given benefit of doubt. Hopefully next year he can mix up with top5 drivers.

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