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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:46 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Mercedes may well now feel vindicated by their decision to retain Bottas. After the Belgian grand Prix he was 65 points behind Hamilton, he is now 67 points behind Hamilton. He's kept pace over this second half of the season.

Japan and USA especially stand out as very strong performances, and his race pace in Mexico was also excellent. If he can eliminate that saggy middle out of his season (Hockenheim was a woefully squandered opportunity to tighten things at the top) then he could mount a serious title challenge next year.


We have heard this for the last 3 years and after every race win.

But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.


I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:57 pm 
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A very strong season from Bottas, if Hamilton had had 2016 levels of reliability and luck - Bottas would have won the title this year. Unlucky for him that year fell for Rosberg.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:04 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.


I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.


The problem for Bottas now though is that a pattern has been established where Hamilton is allowed to go for an alternative strategy if he is behind, (which worked in Britain and probably in Japan also, and gave Hamilton a chance to win in USA too). When Rosberg was there, both drivers were forced to stay on the same strategy out of fairness, but all this ever did was just keep the status quo between them and not allow any proper racing.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:05 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.


I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.


The problem for Bottas now though is that a pattern has been established where Hamilton is allowed to go for an alternative strategy if he is behind, (which worked in Britain and probably in Japan also, and gave Hamilton a chance to win in USA too). When Rosberg was there, both drivers were forced to stay on the same strategy out of fairness, but all this ever did was just keep the status quo between them and not allow any proper racing.



And I believe Toto stated that Mercedes will look to continue this new trend for next season.


Anyway, right now I don't see Bottas as being any worse than Vettel or Leclerc, but he must prove he can continue such a standard for more than a season.


Last edited by Invade on Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:05 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Mercedes may well now feel vindicated by their decision to retain Bottas. After the Belgian grand Prix he was 65 points behind Hamilton, he is now 67 points behind Hamilton. He's kept pace over this second half of the season.

Japan and USA especially stand out as very strong performances, and his race pace in Mexico was also excellent. If he can eliminate that saggy middle out of his season (Hockenheim was a woefully squandered opportunity to tighten things at the top) then he could mount a serious title challenge next year.


We have heard this for the last 3 years and after every race win.

But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.


I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.

I'm basically saying that i think he looks to have improved this year. You surely must admit he has been more balanced... To me it seems that you want to be against the few people who think he's had a better season. I wasn't one thinking he would start challenging Hamilton constantly because of his first win this season. I thought some of it was a bit over the top. I am not expecting bottas to beat Hamilton, but he has been better this season and based on this, it is not unreasonable to base his performance from 3 recent races which he has been great in. The same stage of season where he looked poor both previous years.

He is looking better this year, that is for sure. That is comparing his two previous seasons.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:23 am 
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Johnson wrote:
A very strong season from Bottas, if Hamilton had had 2016 levels of reliability and luck - Bottas would have won the title this year. Unlucky for him that year fell for Rosberg.

Plus Bottas colliding with Hamilton.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33203
Invade wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.


I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.


The problem for Bottas now though is that a pattern has been established where Hamilton is allowed to go for an alternative strategy if he is behind, (which worked in Britain and probably in Japan also, and gave Hamilton a chance to win in USA too). When Rosberg was there, both drivers were forced to stay on the same strategy out of fairness, but all this ever did was just keep the status quo between them and not allow any proper racing.



And I believe Toto stated that Mercedes will look to continue this new trend for next season.


Anyway, right now I don't see Bottas as being any worse than Vettel or Leclerc, but he must prove he can continue such a standard for more than a season.

I'm happy to hear that because I don't want another Japan.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 3017
F1 Racer wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.


I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.


The problem for Bottas now though is that a pattern has been established where Hamilton is allowed to go for an alternative strategy if he is behind, (which worked in Britain and probably in Japan also, and gave Hamilton a chance to win in USA too). When Rosberg was there, both drivers were forced to stay on the same strategy out of fairness, but all this ever did was just keep the status quo between them and not allow any proper racing.


Well that's not quite true is it? In Silverstone both drivers requested the ability to change strategy if they wanted. That was agreed, with Bottas having first pick of the strategies. The fact Ham was behind was coincidental. I have seen nothing from COTA that changes that. As Bottas confirmed re COTA, he didn't have the tyres under him to do a one stop, whereas with Ham they stuck to the original strategy.
Notwithstanding that it does look like the old Mercedes fixed strategies are hopefully a thing of the past.


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