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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:54 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
"Deliberately obtuse"? Interesting. Why don't you read my post and then tell me what part of it you disagree with. I've been asking people to do that but it seems they can't. I get the feeling people just argue reflexively over certain topics.

I'm disagreeing with you saying that Ferrari have the best pace on sundays based on them being able to pull one fast lap on new tyres. That's not race pace. And it's a point no one is arguing against so really nothing more than a straw man.

So, in other words, you are arguing with me despite the fact that you actually don't disagree with what I said (which included that Mercedes produce a better race pace)? Is that about right?

No it's not. Forget it, this just isn't worth my time.

Not worth your time? How do you think I feel? Maybe you should consider that next time before coming in and making an insulting comment in response to a post that you actually don't disagree with. You literally haven't voiced anything that differs from my own post and you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that. Talk about obtuse...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:18 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari need to realise that all they have to do to win is keep track position. They have the straight line speed advantage. Hamilton does not look in the mood to take risks and Bottas suffers especially badly in dirty air and is quite meek anyway.

They still risk being undercut by the Mercedes.


They need to come in before Merc. Obviously you can't guarantee this but the best strategy would just be come in earlier than you think is possible.

:thumbup:

Ferrari's inferior race pace is largely irrelevant when they have a car that can lock out the front row and is too fast in a straight line to be overtaken. There is no excuse for both cars being leapfrogged via pitstop strategy; really they should've won every race since the summer break.

Assuming the final three races go the same way as the previous six, I think we'll be looking at a 3rd year in a row where Ferrari had a great chance to win the title but have thrown it away through various team errors, driver errors and unreliability.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:34 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
"Deliberately obtuse"? Interesting. Why don't you read my post and then tell me what part of it you disagree with. I've been asking people to do that but it seems they can't. I get the feeling people just argue reflexively over certain topics.

I'm disagreeing with you saying that Ferrari have the best pace on sundays based on them being able to pull one fast lap on new tyres. That's not race pace. And it's a point no one is arguing against so really nothing more than a straw man.

So, in other words, you are arguing with me despite the fact that you actually don't disagree with what I said (which included that Mercedes produce a better race pace)? Is that about right?

No it's not. Forget it, this just isn't worth my time.

Not worth your time? How do you think I feel? Maybe you should consider that next time before coming in and making an insulting comment in response to a post that you actually don't disagree with. You literally haven't voiced anything that differs from my own post and you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that. Talk about obtuse...

Ok so we agree then that Mercedes have the fastest car on Sundays.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:36 pm 
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Sandman initially responded to a post which said that ‘The Merc is faster in race trim, and kinder on its tyres’. He simply pointed out that the Ferrari is actually the faster car on Sunday, but the Mercedes is kinder on the tyres. Which it’s hard to disagree with.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:15 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari need to realise that all they have to do to win is keep track position. They have the straight line speed advantage. Hamilton does not look in the mood to take risks and Bottas suffers especially badly in dirty air and is quite meek anyway.

They still risk being undercut by the Mercedes.


They need to come in before Merc. Obviously you can't guarantee this but the best strategy would just be come in earlier than you think is possible.


Nearly every race is a 1 stopper and isnt the pit window majority of the time when you can pit and come out in front of all the midfield cars? If Ferrari are 1-2 then this is all what they have to do. They have a 2v1 situation for majority of the time, fastest car on a straight and track position is king. Once you have pushed for the first outlap on new tyr3s you dont need to push hard anymore, drive to a delta to keep your driver out in front just incase they do stay out later. What sometimes goes against the plan is when Hamilton puts in great laps like Singapore and Russia and starts on the front row. Also doesnt help when Ferrari try and over complicate things or the drivers have a bad day.

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2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:43 pm 
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Ferrari is belly aching that since they have been leading a number of races early, Mercedes has the advantage of being able to pic alternate strategies to the lead cars that give the Mercs the benefit. What happened all those years that Merc regularly locked out the front row and led pretty much the whole race??? Why didn't Ferrari use that tactical advantage of running behind the Mercs and being able to react to Merc's strategy???? :?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:40 am 
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Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
So, in other words, you are arguing with me despite the fact that you actually don't disagree with what I said (which included that Mercedes produce a better race pace)? Is that about right?

No it's not. Forget it, this just isn't worth my time.

Not worth your time? How do you think I feel? Maybe you should consider that next time before coming in and making an insulting comment in response to a post that you actually don't disagree with. You literally haven't voiced anything that differs from my own post and you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that. Talk about obtuse...

Ok so we agree then that Mercedes have the fastest car on Sundays.

No we don't. The Ferrari is fastest on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday or whatever day you want to name. The day of the week actually doesn't affect the speed of the car. Ferrari just don't get as much life out of the tires. The mythology that Ferrari's qualifying performances are down to an engine mode is just that; a myth. They have the fastest car on outright pace. The Mercedes usually still has them beat on overall race pace due to their ability to make the tires last longer. That's very different from claiming that their car magically has more speed on Sunday. I'm not part of that religion. As I said, if you had a race situation that eliminates tire life from the equation (like a safety car with 4 laps to go and everyone getting fresh tires to go for the fastest lap) Ferrari would still have the edge that they have in qualy.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:42 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Ferrari is belly aching that since they have been leading a number of races early, Mercedes has the advantage of being able to pic alternate strategies to the lead cars that give the Mercs the benefit. What happened all those years that Merc regularly locked out the front row and led pretty much the whole race??? Why didn't Ferrari use that tactical advantage of running behind the Mercs and being able to react to Merc's strategy???? :?

The fact is that when the tables were turned in 2017 with Mercedes (at least in Hamilton's hands) stronger in qualifying and Ferrari better in the race due to tire management, Hamilton still won.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:41 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Ferrari is belly aching that since they have been leading a number of races early, Mercedes has the advantage of being able to pic alternate strategies to the lead cars that give the Mercs the benefit. What happened all those years that Merc regularly locked out the front row and led pretty much the whole race??? Why didn't Ferrari use that tactical advantage of running behind the Mercs and being able to react to Merc's strategy???? :?

The fact is that when the tables were turned in 2017 with Mercedes (at least in Hamilton's hands) stronger in qualifying and Ferrari better in the race due to tire management, Hamilton still won.


:thumbup: :nod:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:50 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Ferrari is belly aching that since they have been leading a number of races early, Mercedes has the advantage of being able to pic alternate strategies to the lead cars that give the Mercs the benefit. What happened all those years that Merc regularly locked out the front row and led pretty much the whole race??? Why didn't Ferrari use that tactical advantage of running behind the Mercs and being able to react to Merc's strategy???? :?


Ferrari won Belgian, Italy and Singapore. They only lost Russia due to VSC gifting it to Hamilton.

Japan they lost by being jumped into turn 1 by Bottas. Mexico was the first time Mercedes tactically out did them in 6 races, they should have beaten Hamilton with 1 car in Mexico, it was 2 vs 1 and they lost with both cars.

Ferrari also ran the first stint with there two cars way too close together. Vettel was 1.8 behind Leclerc when Leclerc pitted if this was Hamilton-Bottas in 2017, Hamilton would have had a 6-7 lead over Bottas. Ferrari have a slight problem in that the drivers race pace is pretty equal. If Vettel was slower in Mexico, Leclerc probably would have won as he would have been so far ahead of Albon he wouldn’t have responded to that stop and probably gone with a 1 stopper and Hamilton well out of range to undercut him. Ferrari also made the huge error of not monitoring Albion’s out lap sector times because he lost 4 seconds on his out lap trying to overtake Sainz so there was zero chance of him undercutting Leclerc and no need to pit Leclerc that early.

3-3 is quite generous to Mercedes over this period and if this pattern continues I cant see them winning 50% of the races starting P3 and never able to overtake on track.

If you transplanted the Mercedes scenario and dynamic from 2017 into this 2019 Ferrari type scenario, I feel that they would have won 5 of the races or at least 4 of the 6.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:42 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari need to realise that all they have to do to win is keep track position. They have the straight line speed advantage. Hamilton does not look in the mood to take risks and Bottas suffers especially badly in dirty air and is quite meek anyway.

They still risk being undercut by the Mercedes.


They need to come in before Merc. Obviously you can't guarantee this but the best strategy would just be come in earlier than you think is possible.

They did that with Leclerc last time out but I guess we should consider that they put him on the wrong tyres?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:49 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Ferrari is belly aching that since they have been leading a number of races early, Mercedes has the advantage of being able to pic alternate strategies to the lead cars that give the Mercs the benefit. What happened all those years that Merc regularly locked out the front row and led pretty much the whole race??? Why didn't Ferrari use that tactical advantage of running behind the Mercs and being able to react to Merc's strategy???? :?

The fact is that when the tables were turned in 2017 with Mercedes (at least in Hamilton's hands) stronger in qualifying and Ferrari better in the race due to tire management, Hamilton still won.

Indeed and much was made of having the better qualifying car, being faster in a straight line and having track position being more important than having the best car in the race because of better tyre management.

The last 2 years we have seen the tables totally turned and yet Hamilton is still winning.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:55 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari need to realise that all they have to do to win is keep track position. They have the straight line speed advantage. Hamilton does not look in the mood to take risks and Bottas suffers especially badly in dirty air and is quite meek anyway.

They still risk being undercut by the Mercedes.


They need to come in before Merc. Obviously you can't guarantee this but the best strategy would just be come in earlier than you think is possible.

They did that with Leclerc last time out but I guess we should consider that they put him on the wrong tyres?


Ferrari had the same problem as Mercedes normally do when they are out in front, sometimes they get a little obsessed with what the computer says and dont look at what is happening on track. Like Johnson said, everyone could see Albon was losing lots of time in traffic, also they had the data from Verstappen and Ricciardo on the hard tyres. From this Ferrari decided to pit Leclerc the lap after and on the wrong tyres when they actually had time to compare Leclercs laptimes to Albon, Leclerc also said his tyres was fine.

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2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:27 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It seems that you didn't comprehend what I wrote (or perhaps stopped reading after the first sentence). If there was a safety car late in a race and all of the front-runners pitted for tires to go for the fastest lap; the Ferrari would be most likely to get it.


You pulled that out of where? And even if we assume your baseless assumption is true, that doesn't point to better tire management at all. It could also be that the engine can only run at higher modes for a limited time due to reliability. It could also mean engine is thirsty. You basically made a baseless assumption, with no proof, and then use it to "prove" that Ferrari's bad race pace is all down to tires. Jesus.

Sigh, what? What are you even talking about? Ferrari are faster on the straights both in qualifying and in the race. That isn't baseless. It's empirical. We don't have to guess how fast they are on the straights. That is all captured. What part my post do you disagree with? It's funny how all of F1 is well aware of the massive PU advantage that Ferrari now have but stalwart forum members insist on pretending that it isn't there...


So you went from setting the fastest lap, to being fastest on the straights? It's not a drag race, there are corners too on circuits.

Yes they would set the fastest lap on fresh tires during the race too. There is nothing magical about Sunday that makes their car slower than it is on Saturday. They simply lose out relative to Mercedes over the duration of a long stint because they lose tire life faster than Mercedes.


Coulda woulda shoulda. And you don't even know the difference between Saturdays and Sundays. But keep backing up your arguments with coulda woulda shouldas. I'm outta here.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:12 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari need to realise that all they have to do to win is keep track position. They have the straight line speed advantage. Hamilton does not look in the mood to take risks and Bottas suffers especially badly in dirty air and is quite meek anyway.

They still risk being undercut by the Mercedes.


They need to come in before Merc. Obviously you can't guarantee this but the best strategy would just be come in earlier than you think is possible.

They did that with Leclerc last time out but I guess we should consider that they put him on the wrong tyres?


Ferrari had the same problem as Mercedes normally do when they are out in front, sometimes they get a little obsessed with what the computer says and dont look at what is happening on track. Like Johnson said, everyone could see Albon was losing lots of time in traffic, also they had the data from Verstappen and Ricciardo on the hard tyres. From this Ferrari decided to pit Leclerc the lap after and on the wrong tyres when they actually had time to compare Leclercs laptimes to Albon, Leclerc also said his tyres was fine.

Maybe that or maybe they just decided to split the strategies unsure of what was best?

Putting Leclerc on another set of mediums was surely a mistake because that then limited his strategy, hards would have given more options if not a 1 stop but also of finishing the race on the faster mediums.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Interesting development:

Quote from BBC

"There has been an interesting development this morning, following the publication of a technical clarification by governing body the FIA on fuel-flow meters.

Red Bull asked some questions about the ways they thought it might be possible to exceed the maximum fuel flow permitted under the F1 regulations, and the FIA confirmed - as expected - that this would not be allowed.

Red Bull were not asking because engine partner Honda was trying to do this - but because they suspected someone else might be.

For some time this year, there have been questions over the superiority of the Ferraris in a straight-line, and how they might be achieving it."

Apparently Ferrari are unhappy about this.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:34 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Interesting development:

Quote from BBC

"There has been an interesting development this morning, following the publication of a technical clarification by governing body the FIA on fuel-flow meters.

Red Bull asked some questions about the ways they thought it might be possible to exceed the maximum fuel flow permitted under the F1 regulations, and the FIA confirmed - as expected - that this would not be allowed.

Red Bull were not asking because engine partner Honda was trying to do this - but because they suspected someone else might be.

For some time this year, there have been questions over the superiority of the Ferraris in a straight-line, and how they might be achieving it."

Apparently Ferrari are unhappy about this.


Interesting. Adam Cooper tweeted last week that if Ferrari won in Mexico he expected a protest from another team. Ted Kravitz/Crofty (not sure which) also mentioned the possibility of a protest this weekend. Ferrari have said they are happy for someone to protest as it means they can prove once and for all they aren't doing anything they shouldn't.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:15 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Interesting development:

Quote from BBC

"There has been an interesting development this morning, following the publication of a technical clarification by governing body the FIA on fuel-flow meters.

Red Bull asked some questions about the ways they thought it might be possible to exceed the maximum fuel flow permitted under the F1 regulations, and the FIA confirmed - as expected - that this would not be allowed.

Red Bull were not asking because engine partner Honda was trying to do this - but because they suspected someone else might be.

For some time this year, there have been questions over the superiority of the Ferraris in a straight-line, and how they might be achieving it."

Apparently Ferrari are unhappy about this.


Interesting. Adam Cooper tweeted last week that if Ferrari won in Mexico he expected a protest from another team. Ted Kravitz/Crofty (not sure which) also mentioned the possibility of a protest this weekend. Ferrari have said they are happy for someone to protest as it means they can prove once and for all they aren't doing anything they shouldn't.


Mark Preistly mentioned in his Mexico GP video that if a team was going to protest against Ferrari it will most likely be when it's a good weekend for Ferrari.

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2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:20 pm 
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It was very close in qualifying for COTA. There was less grip on the 2nd runs in Q3 (according to Bottas). The pace looked quite equal between the three teams. Vettel claims time was left on the table in high speed sections, and Leclerc was compromised with a PU with inferior performance and Max hooked up his best lap when grip was sub-optimal and so barely improved. From what I can gather, Bottas' lap was clean. This was a day where the driver makes the difference.


This post was meant for this thread but whatever - I'll keep it up in the qualifying thread as well. Ho hum.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:48 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Interesting development:

Quote from BBC

"There has been an interesting development this morning, following the publication of a technical clarification by governing body the FIA on fuel-flow meters.

Red Bull asked some questions about the ways they thought it might be possible to exceed the maximum fuel flow permitted under the F1 regulations, and the FIA confirmed - as expected - that this would not be allowed.

Red Bull were not asking because engine partner Honda was trying to do this - but because they suspected someone else might be.

For some time this year, there have been questions over the superiority of the Ferraris in a straight-line, and how they might be achieving it."

Apparently Ferrari are unhappy about this.


Interesting. Adam Cooper tweeted last week that if Ferrari won in Mexico he expected a protest from another team. Ted Kravitz/Crofty (not sure which) also mentioned the possibility of a protest this weekend. Ferrari have said they are happy for someone to protest as it means they can prove once and for all they aren't doing anything they shouldn't.


Mark Preistly mentioned in his Mexico GP video that if a team was going to protest against Ferrari it will most likely be when it's a good weekend for Ferrari.

I heard there was some kind of Mercedes/Red Bull/Ferrari alliance over the new rules and it was in Mercedes and Red Bull's interests to keep Ferrari onboard until they were sorted, this protest has been left in abeyance for a few weeks.

As is normally the case I suppose the teams have more knowledge on such things than the stewards themselves and this case Red Bull are saying to the stewards this is what you need to be looking for, if Red Bull had not brought this to the attention of the stewards then apparently Mercedes would have done, however are they merely just shooting in the dark again?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:08 am 
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https://www.racefans.net/2019/11/03/ham ... on-engine/

Hamilton: Ferrari have ‘lost power’ since FIA issued directive on engines

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2018: 12th place

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:14 am 
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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ssion=true

Without mentioning in the cover letter from Red Bull engineer Paul Monaghan to FIA Chief Technology Officer Nikolas Tombazi's name, it was clear who the request was for. Red Bull sports director Helmut Marko did not hold it back from the mountain: "The power advantage of Ferrari had simply become too blatant. That's why we wanted clarity. "

Of course, after qualifying, that raised the question as to whether anything had changed in the races before. Wolff answered statesmanlike: "The three cars were on the straights much closer together than before. But I can not say why. "Helmut Marko was a bit clearer:" Our backlog on Ferrari in the top speed is not so bad. On the long straight, it was three to four tenths. Yesterday we lost twice that. "

In the GPS comparisons shows that Ferrari wins in Austin on all straights together three and a half tenths to the Mercedes and six tenths to the Red Bull Honda. That's about half of what was measured the previous day. And half of the Ferrari advantage in Suzuka, a circuit similar to the Circuit of the Americas.

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2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:28 pm 
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Something was definitely missing for Ferrari. May be they still have a big advantage in qualifying as in the race they were pathetic. Some 52sec off Mercedes :?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:05 pm 
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I just wonder if that sort of guarantees a 7th WDC for Hamilton if Ferraris car performs at the same level for the forthcoming races.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:12 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
I just wonder if that sort of guarantees a 7th WDC for Hamilton if Ferraris car performs at the same level for the forthcoming races.



Yeah. This whole escapade alone has completely transformed my opinion on who will win in 2019. BUT - if not Mercedes, then out of Max, Seb and Charles, I'm picking Max all day erryday.


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(Admittedly knee-jerky but there were indications of lost performance.)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:27 am 
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Sad day for F1 if it turns out that the only way to best Mercedes is to cheat. It's still a big 'if' though.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:35 am 
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'if' the if is true and that is the case I'm not sure it is cheating. Exploiting an opportunity because unclear rules and regulations is not the same. F1 needs to be a bit more transparent though or it all becomes messy.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:02 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
'if' the if is true and that is the case I'm not sure it is cheating. Exploiting an opportunity because unclear rules and regulations is not the same. F1 needs to be a bit more transparent though or it all becomes messy.

The alleged infraction would be pretty clear-cut cheating to me. The rules are pretty explicit that you can't do anything to get around the fuel flow sensor, so getting around the fuel flow sensor is cheating.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:16 am 
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What are the exact rules regarding the fuel flow rate and the sensor?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:21 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
What are the exact rules regarding the fuel flow rate and the sensor?

Pulled from another thread:
Quote:
5.10.3 All cars must be fitted with a single fuel flow sensor, wholly within the fuel tank, which has been manufactured by the FIA designated supplier to a specification determined by the FIA. This sensor may only be used as specified by the FIA. Furthermore, all fuel delivered to the power unit must pass through this homologated sensor, and must all be delivered to the combustion chambers by the fuel injectors described by article 5.10.2.

5.10.5 Any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel after the measurement point is prohibited.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:49 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
What are the exact rules regarding the fuel flow rate and the sensor?

Pulled from another thread:
Quote:
5.10.3 All cars must be fitted with a single fuel flow sensor, wholly within the fuel tank, which has been manufactured by the FIA designated supplier to a specification determined by the FIA. This sensor may only be used as specified by the FIA. Furthermore, all fuel delivered to the power unit must pass through this homologated sensor, and must all be delivered to the combustion chambers by the fuel injectors described by article 5.10.2.

5.10.5 Any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel after the measurement point is prohibited.

Thanks. That latter paragraph would be really difficult to bypass. I'd imagine the fuel flow rate is monitored by a Hall effect sensor which should be fairly easy to manipulate with a magnetic field, but that would be a clear breach of the regulations.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:18 pm 
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https://streamable.com/7jviz

What is Toto trying to tell us about 2020? :twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:45 pm 
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Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/7jviz

What is Toto trying to tell us about 2020? :twisted:

It sounds like they made a very early start to the 2020 season at the expense of the second half of the 2019 season. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:30 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/7jviz

What is Toto trying to tell us about 2020? :twisted:

It sounds like they made a very early start to the 2020 season at the expense of the second half of the 2019 season. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:23 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Sad day for F1 if it turns out that the only way to best Mercedes is to cheat. It's still a big 'if' though.

My favorite old motor racing saying is "I know you're cheating because I'm cheating and you're still beating me."

Somewhat apt to the current situation I think.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:25 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/7jviz

What is Toto trying to tell us about 2020? :twisted:

It sounds like they made a very early start to the 2020 season at the expense of the second half of the 2019 season. :)

Oh joy...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:13 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/7jviz

What is Toto trying to tell us about 2020? :twisted:

It sounds like they made a very early start to the 2020 season at the expense of the second half of the 2019 season. :)

Oh joy...



In the Sky interview Rosberg said to Toto 'Well we know you stopped development on the car mid season..........' and then added a little later that the upgrades planned up to then maybe still coming through the system in time for the last two races.


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