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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:57 am 
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Around 7 hrs 50 mins to go and in pouring rain last night Fernando kick'd it and put the #10 Cadillac DPi car ahead of Penke's 2 Acura DPi cars.

ps - NBCSN coverage of the race is pathetic and I wish Diffey would've went to bed earlier as atleast the guys that replaced him through the night did a much better job............





















i


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Red Flagged at 7 hours 13 mins to go because of the rain (after having the cars circulate for 40+ mins)........ Clock will continue to run and yes Alonso is still in P1.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:44 pm 
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Cheers for the updates? Not bad that Alonso is he!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Drivers are strapping back into to their cars for an expected top of the hour re-start - Alonso back in his #10 Cadillac.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:41 pm 
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That was nuts. Red flag, Alonso P1, just under 2 hours to go. Rain not getting better, could be it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:17 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:
That was nuts. Red flag, Alonso P1, just under 2 hours to go. Rain not getting better, could be it.


Agree, green flag. caution flag, green, then caution, heck I've lost track of how many times now.......

Jordan Taylor takes over the #10 for Fernando, manages to get the car back into P1, caution again then another green he loses P1, then regains it only to lose it again to the #31 Cadillac and then next caution Jordan says he's in over his head and pits for Alonso to get back in the car....

Monsoon Daytona insanity, cars and parts of cars scattered everywhere around the track - Fernando hangs on until the #31 caddy loses the lead to the #10 via a runoff mistake and Alonso leads again and was quite animated after the Red Flag for the 2nd time (a first for the 24 Hours of Daytona) - he was not a happy camper with the apparently terrifying conditions on the track, can't say I blame him.

Nuts is a quite apt description.

Cudos to Alex Zanardi though, he was a bright and shining star both in and out of his BMW, a real inspiration.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:36 pm 
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The double Formula 1 World Champion entered the cockpit, replacing Jordan Taylor, when the rain began and after a flurry of pitstops he emerged in third and proceeded to scythe through the field and when the rain came down he was at times five seconds faster than any driver, while in traffic, at the legendary event this weekend.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/01/27/watch-live-alonso-giving-masterclass-in-the-rain-at-daytona/

Legendary!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:01 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
The double Formula 1 World Champion entered the cockpit, replacing Jordan Taylor, when the rain began and after a flurry of pitstops he emerged in third and proceeded to scythe through the field and when the rain came down he was at times five seconds faster than any driver, while in traffic, at the legendary event this weekend.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/01/27/watch-live-alonso-giving-masterclass-in-the-rain-at-daytona/

Legendary!


This was last night, early this morning while NBCSN was more interested in showing infomercials rather than race coverage - Alonso was terrific behind the wheel, which I was forced to watch on my crappy internet service, (thanks for nothing NBCSN - also since 5am (cst) I've had to set through more commercials than actual race coverage and it still ain't over - as in the next 5 mins or so IMSA will decide whether to call the race or re-start it)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:27 pm 
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FINALLY.......Alonso is now a Lemans and 24 Hours of Daytona champion!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:32 pm 
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I'm really on board with Alonso's new mission of winning in other series. Always loved Le mans and Daytona (I actually worked at the 24 hours of Daytona selling beer when I was much younger). I think the difference between him and the other drivers is comical at times but it also goes to show you what you're watching when you watch F1. Those guys are a cut above without question and Alonso was top-shelf among them.

Now for Indy!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:14 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I'm really on board with Alonso's new mission of winning in other series. Always loved Le mans and Daytona (I actually worked at the 24 hours of Daytona selling beer when I was much younger). I think the difference between him and the other drivers is comical at times but it also goes to show you what you're watching when you watch F1. Those guys are a cut above without question and Alonso was top-shelf among them.

Now for Indy!

It also goes to show that poor Stoffel is far from alone in being dominated by Alonso. 8)

I watched from the start until 8PM, then from about midnight to 2:30, 5:00 to 7:00, and then checked back in after I woke up in the afternoon and saw that everything was red flagged. I'm lucky that I saw almost all of Alonso's rain stint in the night, where he was a minimum of 2 seconds per lap faster than the other DPIs. The sheer margin by which he outbraked both Penske cars was something to behold when he overtook them.

WELL DONE, Alonso! :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:25 am 
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My take.
Fernando realized there would be no more WDCs and only the slimmest of chances at F1 wins. He is now collecting baubles to add his resume. His reputation as a WDC has made it possible to get on the top teams, and to be honest he does add to their results. I am not convinced he could take a second tier team to victory circle in WEC any more than he could McLaren in F1.

Completing the WEC is next as is the Indy 500 win. Indy will be tough for Fernando if he does not commit to a full season of Indycar.

Sooner or later he will want a 12 hours of Sebring. 1000 miles of Sebring will do for now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:17 am 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I'm really on board with Alonso's new mission of winning in other series. Always loved Le mans and Daytona (I actually worked at the 24 hours of Daytona selling beer when I was much younger). I think the difference between him and the other drivers is comical at times but it also goes to show you what you're watching when you watch F1. Those guys are a cut above without question and Alonso was top-shelf among them.

Now for Indy!

It also goes to show that poor Stoffel is far from alone in being dominated by Alonso. 8)

I watched from the start until 8PM, then from about midnight to 2:30, 5:00 to 7:00, and then checked back in after I woke up in the afternoon and saw that everything was red flagged. I'm lucky that I saw almost all of Alonso's rain stint in the night, where he was a minimum of 2 seconds per lap faster than the other DPIs. The sheer margin by which he outbraked both Penske cars was something to behold when he overtook them.

WELL DONE, Alonso! :thumbup:

Nah can't give Stoffel any slack for his performance based on this race at all really. The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:42 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I'm really on board with Alonso's new mission of winning in other series. Always loved Le mans and Daytona (I actually worked at the 24 hours of Daytona selling beer when I was much younger). I think the difference between him and the other drivers is comical at times but it also goes to show you what you're watching when you watch F1. Those guys are a cut above without question and Alonso was top-shelf among them.

Now for Indy!

It also goes to show that poor Stoffel is far from alone in being dominated by Alonso. 8)

I watched from the start until 8PM, then from about midnight to 2:30, 5:00 to 7:00, and then checked back in after I woke up in the afternoon and saw that everything was red flagged. I'm lucky that I saw almost all of Alonso's rain stint in the night, where he was a minimum of 2 seconds per lap faster than the other DPIs. The sheer margin by which he outbraked both Penske cars was something to behold when he overtook them.

WELL DONE, Alonso! :thumbup:

Nah can't give Stoffel any slack for his performance based on this race at all really. The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.


You don't know that!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:53 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
It also goes to show that poor Stoffel is far from alone in being dominated by Alonso. 8)
WELL DONE, Alonso! :thumbup:

Nah can't give Stoffel any slack for his performance based on this race at all really. The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.

Some of them are. A pretty decent number of them, actually. Why is it that only Alonso seems to make non-F1 drivers look poor when he goes somewhere else? Why don't all the other ex-F1 guys do it?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Great stuff. If he goes to the Indy 500 again I am just going to have to go. I'd love to be there when he won.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
It also goes to show that poor Stoffel is far from alone in being dominated by Alonso. 8)
WELL DONE, Alonso! :thumbup:

Nah can't give Stoffel any slack for his performance based on this race at all really. The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.

Some of them are. A pretty decent number of them, actually. Why is it that only Alonso seems to make non-F1 drivers look poor when he goes somewhere else? Why don't all the other ex-F1 guys do it?

Other top-tier F1 drivers rarely go to other series while still in their prime and when they do, they usually dominate just like he did. Hulkenberg won Le Mans during a much more competitive season and he's not even top-tier. Jenson Button just won the very competitive Super GT series in his first try. Back in the day; drivers like Fittipaldi, Mansell and Piquet won in Indycar after leaving F1. The main thing that's changed is that top F1 drivers rarely actually try to win these other events anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:10 pm 
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Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I'm really on board with Alonso's new mission of winning in other series. Always loved Le mans and Daytona (I actually worked at the 24 hours of Daytona selling beer when I was much younger). I think the difference between him and the other drivers is comical at times but it also goes to show you what you're watching when you watch F1. Those guys are a cut above without question and Alonso was top-shelf among them.

Now for Indy!

It also goes to show that poor Stoffel is far from alone in being dominated by Alonso. 8)

I watched from the start until 8PM, then from about midnight to 2:30, 5:00 to 7:00, and then checked back in after I woke up in the afternoon and saw that everything was red flagged. I'm lucky that I saw almost all of Alonso's rain stint in the night, where he was a minimum of 2 seconds per lap faster than the other DPIs. The sheer margin by which he outbraked both Penske cars was something to behold when he overtook them.

WELL DONE, Alonso! :thumbup:

Nah can't give Stoffel any slack for his performance based on this race at all really. The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.


You don't know that!

Now you're just being argumentative. Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:44 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I'm really on board with Alonso's new mission of winning in other series. Always loved Le mans and Daytona (I actually worked at the 24 hours of Daytona selling beer when I was much younger). I think the difference between him and the other drivers is comical at times but it also goes to show you what you're watching when you watch F1. Those guys are a cut above without question and Alonso was top-shelf among them.

Now for Indy!

It also goes to show that poor Stoffel is far from alone in being dominated by Alonso. 8)

I watched from the start until 8PM, then from about midnight to 2:30, 5:00 to 7:00, and then checked back in after I woke up in the afternoon and saw that everything was red flagged. I'm lucky that I saw almost all of Alonso's rain stint in the night, where he was a minimum of 2 seconds per lap faster than the other DPIs. The sheer margin by which he outbraked both Penske cars was something to behold when he overtook them.

WELL DONE, Alonso! :thumbup:

Nah can't give Stoffel any slack for his performance based on this race at all really. The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.


You don't know that!

Now you're just being argumentative. Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...


Argumentative? You are the one who made a blanket statement that Daytona 24 Hour drivers are not of F1 caliber and I am being argumentative? This elitist mind of F1 crud is one of my pet peeves. Once again, not every driver has the desire of the means to drive in F1, but that doesn't mean none of them have the ability to do so. Nor are all F1 automatically better than all the the 24 hour drivers. Fernando Alonso is...he is also better than all the current F1 drivers as well, in my opinion, so his performance this weekend is not a surprise, nor is it necssarily an indication that the 24 Hour field is lacking of talent.

Over the years the 24 Hours of Daytona has featured some very impressive drivers from a variety of racing disciplines, just because F1 drivers don't usually participate, does not mean the F1 drivers, by the nature of their being in F1 are automatically better drivers. That goes, not only for Daytona, but for almost all major non F1 racing events. To believe otherwise is, in my opinion, either ignorance or being a wearer of those off mentioned rose colored glasses.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:18 pm 
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Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Nah can't give Stoffel any slack for his performance based on this race at all really. The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.


You don't know that!

Now you're just being argumentative. Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...


Argumentative? You are the one who made a blanket statement that Daytona 24 Hour drivers are not of F1 caliber and I am being argumentative? This elitist mind of F1 crud is one of my pet peeves. Once again, not every driver has the desire of the means to drive in F1, but that doesn't mean none of them have the ability to do so. Nor are all F1 automatically better than all the the 24 hour drivers. Fernando Alonso is...he is also better than all the current F1 drivers as well, in my opinion, so his performance this weekend is not a surprise, nor is it necssarily an indication that the 24 Hour field is lacking of talent.

Over the years the 24 Hours of Daytona has featured some very impressive drivers from a variety of racing disciplines, just because F1 drivers don't usually participate, does not mean the F1 drivers, by the nature of their being in F1 are automatically better drivers. That goes, not only for Daytona, but for almost all major non F1 racing events. To believe otherwise is, in my opinion, either ignorance or being a wearer of those off mentioned rose colored glasses.

You seem to be speaking in generalities and frankly I'm not interested in that. I'm speaking specifically about this current crop of drivers from this year's field in the Daytona 24 hours. Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber? If you can't name someone then you are, in fact, being argumentative because you don't actually disagree with my statement.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:09 pm 
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Incredible performance by Alonso, respect! 8)

Generally, a very interesting race in difficult conditions.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:39 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I'm really on board with Alonso's new mission of winning in other series. Always loved Le mans and Daytona (I actually worked at the 24 hours of Daytona selling beer when I was much younger). I think the difference between him and the other drivers is comical at times but it also goes to show you what you're watching when you watch F1. Those guys are a cut above without question and Alonso was top-shelf among them.

Now for Indy!

It also goes to show that poor Stoffel is far from alone in being dominated by Alonso. 8)

I watched from the start until 8PM, then from about midnight to 2:30, 5:00 to 7:00, and then checked back in after I woke up in the afternoon and saw that everything was red flagged. I'm lucky that I saw almost all of Alonso's rain stint in the night, where he was a minimum of 2 seconds per lap faster than the other DPIs. The sheer margin by which he outbraked both Penske cars was something to behold when he overtook them.

WELL DONE, Alonso! :thumbup:

Nah can't give Stoffel any slack for his performance based on this race at all really. The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.


You don't know that!

Now you're just being argumentative. Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...


Quick look at the lineup, I would say Scott Dixon of the non-former F1 drivers. There’s a few ex-F1 drivers who I think could slot back in (Kamui, Nasr, Rossi), but wasn’t sure if they count


Last edited by Charles LeBrad on Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:50 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber? If you can't name someone then you are, in fact, being argumentative because you don't actually disagree with my statement.

I'd say Dixon (wasn't driving in DPi), Rossi, Kobayashi, Nasr and probably Pagenaud are F1 caliber. Castroneves, Barrichello and JPM either are or were F1 caliber, depending on how much you think they've lost from age. Zanardi was also F1 caliber, but it's hard to say that he still is with everything that's happened.

Now, whether any of those are the caliber of an F1 champion - let alone an F1 multiple champion - is another question. But the only F1 driver I think would have done a similar job to Alonso is Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:51 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:

Now you're just being argumentative. Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...


Argumentative? You are the one who made a blanket statement that Daytona 24 Hour drivers are not of F1 caliber and I am being argumentative? This elitist mind of F1 crud is one of my pet peeves. Once again, not every driver has the desire of the means to drive in F1, but that doesn't mean none of them have the ability to do so. Nor are all F1 automatically better than all the the 24 hour drivers. Fernando Alonso is...he is also better than all the current F1 drivers as well, in my opinion, so his performance this weekend is not a surprise, nor is it necssarily an indication that the 24 Hour field is lacking of talent.

Over the years the 24 Hours of Daytona has featured some very impressive drivers from a variety of racing disciplines, just because F1 drivers don't usually participate, does not mean the F1 drivers, by the nature of their being in F1 are automatically better drivers. That goes, not only for Daytona, but for almost all major non F1 racing events. To believe otherwise is, in my opinion, either ignorance or being a wearer of those off mentioned rose colored glasses.

You seem to be speaking in generalities and frankly I'm not interested in that. I'm speaking specifically about this current crop of drivers from this year's field in the Daytona 24 hours. Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber? If you can't name someone then you are, in fact, being argumentative because you don't actually disagree with my statement.


NO, sandman, you were the one speaking in generalities.

Quote:
The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.


You made the statement and I called you on it. You did not specify that you were discussing this year's line-up in your condemnation of the Daytona 24hr field. And given your past history of praising the F1 field of drivers above all others, I have little doubt that in your post you were not thinking of only this year's field this time either. If I misread your true intent this time, I am sorry. However, this bullroar of claiming that if I can't name one driver then I am being argumentative is full-on baloney. I don't have to prove/answer a thing, and if you are not interested in that then don't speak in generalities yourself.

It seems we often have to go through this, usually when someone says something nice about a major non-F1 race such as the Indy 500, major NASCAR races, LeMans, et al. Here come some F1 fanatics who feel the need to put down the driver talent in non F1 races. I will say it again.... not all non-F1 driver have a desire or the means of racing in F1 as hard as it is for some of you to believe. Some Very Good drivers prefer what and/or where they are racing, many of them fully capable of competing if F1 if they had the opportunity. Counter to that, not ALL F1 drivers are going to be able to go to a non-F1 racing discipline and win, dominate or compete just because they are or were in F1. Many drivers in the F1 ranks over the last few years have not been anything special (understand, they are all special compared to what I could do) by comparison to many other drivers. This idea that F1 has only the top drivers in the world is asinine... period.

I am not going to bother giving credence to your demand by naming names just because you demand it. Others have named some I see, and that is enough.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:33 pm 
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Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:

Now you're just being argumentative. Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...


Argumentative? You are the one who made a blanket statement that Daytona 24 Hour drivers are not of F1 caliber and I am being argumentative? This elitist mind of F1 crud is one of my pet peeves. Once again, not every driver has the desire of the means to drive in F1, but that doesn't mean none of them have the ability to do so. Nor are all F1 automatically better than all the the 24 hour drivers. Fernando Alonso is...he is also better than all the current F1 drivers as well, in my opinion, so his performance this weekend is not a surprise, nor is it necssarily an indication that the 24 Hour field is lacking of talent.

Over the years the 24 Hours of Daytona has featured some very impressive drivers from a variety of racing disciplines, just because F1 drivers don't usually participate, does not mean the F1 drivers, by the nature of their being in F1 are automatically better drivers. That goes, not only for Daytona, but for almost all major non F1 racing events. To believe otherwise is, in my opinion, either ignorance or being a wearer of those off mentioned rose colored glasses.

You seem to be speaking in generalities and frankly I'm not interested in that. I'm speaking specifically about this current crop of drivers from this year's field in the Daytona 24 hours. Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber? If you can't name someone then you are, in fact, being argumentative because you don't actually disagree with my statement.


NO, sandman, you were the one speaking in generalities.

Quote:
The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.


You made the statement and I called you on it. You did not specify that you were discussing this year's line-up in your condemnation of the Daytona 24hr field. And given your past history of praising the F1 field of drivers above all others, I have little doubt that in your post you were not thinking of only this year's field this time either. If I misread your true intent this time, I am sorry. However, this bullroar of claiming that if I can't name one driver then I am being argumentative is full-on baloney. I don't have to prove/answer a thing, and if you are not interested in that then don't speak in generalities yourself.

It seems we often have to go through this, usually when someone says something nice about a major non-F1 race such as the Indy 500, major NASCAR races, LeMans, et al. Here come some F1 fanatics who feel the need to put down the driver talent in non F1 races. I will say it again.... not all non-F1 driver have a desire or the means of racing in F1 as hard as it is for some of you to believe. Some Very Good drivers prefer what and/or where they are racing, many of them fully capable of competing if F1 if they had the opportunity. Counter to that, not ALL F1 drivers are going to be able to go to a non-F1 racing discipline and win, dominate or compete just because they are or were in F1. Many drivers in the F1 ranks over the last few years have not been anything special (understand, they are all special compared to what I could do) by comparison to many other drivers. This idea that F1 has only the top drivers in the world is asinine... period.

I am not going to bother giving credence to your demand by naming names just because you demand it. Others have named some I see, and that is enough.

Look Blake, I'm not sure why you're ascribing this F1 snob thing to me but that's not me and it never has been. I do not think F1 drivers are superior to everyone else in motorsport and I never have. When you make multiple posts arguing against things I never even said; I have to put my foot down. None of what you have posted here speaks to me or what I posted. You can "call" someone else on it (preferably someone who actually said that stuff).

What I said was "The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber". I wasn't talking about the 88' race where Martin Brundle won it nor was I talking about 2007-2008 when Juan Montoya won it. I was talking about today. I was talking about the guys racing in that event now. I thought that was implicit but, if it was not, my second post should have clarified it. While there are some F1 washouts and guys who retired a few years back, there is no one in the field (other than Alonso) who could ever make it to the F1 grid again. You just got all fired up because of some perceived slight (largely due to interactions you've had with other people/posters I assume) and have not only put words in my mouth but also ascribed entire perspectives to me that I don't actually possess.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:41 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber? If you can't name someone then you are, in fact, being argumentative because you don't actually disagree with my statement.

I'd say Dixon (wasn't driving in DPi), Rossi, Kobayashi, Nasr and probably Pagenaud are F1 caliber. Castroneves, Barrichello and JPM either are or were F1 caliber, depending on how much you think they've lost from age. Zanardi was also F1 caliber, but it's hard to say that he still is with everything that's happened.

Now, whether any of those are the caliber of an F1 champion - let alone an F1 multiple champion - is another question. But the only F1 driver I think would have done a similar job to Alonso is Hamilton.

By F1-caliber I mean "currently" F1-caliber; not "retired 10 years ago" or "washed out after 2 seasons". Of the drivers you named; I'd say none of them have a prayer of making it to the grid and only Kobayashi and perhaps Rossi are on a level where they would be competitive with the average F1 driver right now.

As for the bolded part; what exactly do you base that on? I don't think only Hamilton or Alonso could have dominated that race. I think you could take Max, Dan, Seb and likely a few others and they would also have been the best in the field by far. Probably at least half of the F1 grid would be the fastest guy out there in those cars. It's not like they're going to race stock cars on ovals or do something radically different from what they do. F1 drivers translate quite well to sportscar prototypes and I see no reason to assume that you need an Alonso or a Hamilton to best that field.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:51 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber? If you can't name someone then you are, in fact, being argumentative because you don't actually disagree with my statement.

I'd say Dixon (wasn't driving in DPi), Rossi, Kobayashi, Nasr and probably Pagenaud are F1 caliber. Castroneves, Barrichello and JPM either are or were F1 caliber, depending on how much you think they've lost from age. Zanardi was also F1 caliber, but it's hard to say that he still is with everything that's happened.

Now, whether any of those are the caliber of an F1 champion - let alone an F1 multiple champion - is another question. But the only F1 driver I think would have done a similar job to Alonso is Hamilton.

By F1-caliber I mean "currently" F1-caliber; not "retired 10 years ago" or "washed out after 2 seasons". Of the drivers you named; I'd say none of them have a prayer of making it to the grid and only Kobayashi and perhaps Rossi are on a level where they would be competitive with the average F1 driver right now.

As for the bolded part; what exactly do you base that on? I don't think only Hamilton or Alonso could have dominated that race. I think you could take Max, Dan, Seb and likely a few others and they would also have been the best in the field by far. Probably at least half of the F1 grid would be the fastest guy out there in those cars. It's not like they're going to race stock cars on ovals or do something radically different from what they do. F1 drivers translate quite well to sportscar prototypes and I see no reason to assume that you need an Alonso or a Hamilton to best that field.


Well, since nobody of them have actually done it, it remains to be seen. We have seen F1 race winners struggling to best endurance/sports car race grids.

Anyway, I saw a fantastic drive by Alonso, scoring a deserved victory and winning both the 24 h Le Mans and the 24 h Daytona within about seven months is an impressive achievement IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:18 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
While there are some F1 washouts and guys who retired a few years back, there is no one in the field (other than Alonso) who could ever make it to the F1 grid again..


sandman1347 wrote:
By F1-caliber I mean "currently" F1-caliber; not "retired 10 years ago" or "washed out after 2 seasons". Of the drivers you named; I'd say none of them have a prayer of making it to the grid and only Kobayashi and perhaps Rossi are on a level where they would be competitive with the average F1 driver right now.


You’ve contradicted yourself in consecutive posts. Saying no one could ever make the grid again, then saying maybe Kamui and Rossi did.

I think that seals it. You asked to name one, we named 5 and you agreed with 2


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Charles LeBrad wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
While there are some F1 washouts and guys who retired a few years back, there is no one in the field (other than Alonso) who could ever make it to the F1 grid again..


sandman1347 wrote:
By F1-caliber I mean "currently" F1-caliber; not "retired 10 years ago" or "washed out after 2 seasons". Of the drivers you named; I'd say none of them have a prayer of making it to the grid and only Kobayashi and perhaps Rossi are on a level where they would be competitive with the average F1 driver right now.


You’ve contradicted yourself in consecutive posts. Saying no one could ever make the grid again, then saying maybe Kamui and Rossi did.

I think that seals it. You asked to name one, we named 5 and you agreed with 2

I don't understand why Liberty are not pushing to get Rossi into F1, he has a good profile in America now and has driven a few races in F1 without looking out of place.

Liberty are American who are wanting to increase American interest at home and to that extent they are looking to have more than one race in America, there is also an American team that are very competitive, what am I missing here?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:04 pm 
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Charles LeBrad wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
While there are some F1 washouts and guys who retired a few years back, there is no one in the field (other than Alonso) who could ever make it to the F1 grid again..


sandman1347 wrote:
By F1-caliber I mean "currently" F1-caliber; not "retired 10 years ago" or "washed out after 2 seasons". Of the drivers you named; I'd say none of them have a prayer of making it to the grid and only Kobayashi and perhaps Rossi are on a level where they would be competitive with the average F1 driver right now.


You’ve contradicted yourself in consecutive posts. Saying no one could ever make the grid again, then saying maybe Kamui and Rossi did.

I think that seals it. You asked to name one, we named 5 and you agreed with 2

No I didn't say that nor did I contradict myself. I don't see any way that either Rossi or Kobayashi will ever race in F1 again. That said; if they were given the opportunity, I think they could probably hold their own. You named 5 people who were either over the hill and retired, not F1 caliber to begin with or who had already washed out of F1. So no, I didn't agree with 2. I don't think any of those drivers would be even remotely attractive to any team on the grid today.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:19 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
No I didn't say that nor did I contradict myself. I don't see any way that either Rossi or Kobayashi will ever race in F1 again. That said; if they were given the opportunity, I think they could probably hold their own. You named 5 people who were either over the hill and retired, not F1 caliber to begin with or who had already washed out of F1. So no, I didn't agree with 2. I don't think any of those drivers would be even remotely attractive to any team on the grid today.

You're employing a very strange standard here. If Rossi and Kobayashi would hold their own in F1 by your own admission, they are clearly F1 level. Whether they have a realistic shot of being on the F1 grid is entirely irrelevant. You began by saying none of the drivers at Daytona were F1 caliber, then challenged us to name a single one who was:

Quote:
The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.
Quote:
Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...
Quote:
Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber?

Not one of these quotes references having an actual chance at making the grid. You used the term F1 caliber in every case. If Rossi and Kobayashi are F1 caliber, you were wrong and are simply refusing to admit it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:21 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I don't understand why Liberty are not pushing to get Rossi into F1, he has a good profile in America now and has driven a few races in F1 without looking out of place.

Liberty are American who are wanting to increase American interest at home and to that extent they are looking to have more than one race in America, there is also an American team that are very competitive, what am I missing here?

I think they may be trying - I know they tried to get Newgarden into the Haas, as well. But the problem is: why would either of them leave a championship team in IndyCar to make up the numbers in F1? Unless they could find Rossi a seat at Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes, he doesn't have much reason to stop fighting for championships in America to come fight for 7th in F1.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:08 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
No I didn't say that nor did I contradict myself. I don't see any way that either Rossi or Kobayashi will ever race in F1 again. That said; if they were given the opportunity, I think they could probably hold their own. You named 5 people who were either over the hill and retired, not F1 caliber to begin with or who had already washed out of F1. So no, I didn't agree with 2. I don't think any of those drivers would be even remotely attractive to any team on the grid today.

You're employing a very strange standard here. If Rossi and Kobayashi would hold their own in F1 by your own admission, they are clearly F1 level. Whether they have a realistic shot of being on the F1 grid is entirely irrelevant. You began by saying none of the drivers at Daytona were F1 caliber, then challenged us to name a single one who was:

Quote:
The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.
Quote:
Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...
Quote:
Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber?

Not one of these quotes references having an actual chance at making the grid. You used the term F1 caliber in every case. If Rossi and Kobayashi are F1 caliber, you were wrong and are simply refusing to admit it.

:thumbup:

Thank you for more clearly pointing out what some have been trying to get across. Now let's see if the line gets moved get again.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I don't understand why Liberty are not pushing to get Rossi into F1, he has a good profile in America now and has driven a few races in F1 without looking out of place.

Liberty are American who are wanting to increase American interest at home and to that extent they are looking to have more than one race in America, there is also an American team that are very competitive, what am I missing here?

I think they may be trying - I know they tried to get Newgarden into the Haas, as well. But the problem is: why would either of them leave a championship team in IndyCar to make up the numbers in F1? Unless they could find Rossi a seat at Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes, he doesn't have much reason to stop fighting for championships in America to come fight for 7th in F1.

For me that just shows lack of ambition you either want to be an American Champion or a World Champion, if you fail then then there's always the route back to Indycar.

A top team is not going to sign an unproven driver, you show what you can do in F1 first like what Leclerc did.

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2017: 9th Place
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
No I didn't say that nor did I contradict myself. I don't see any way that either Rossi or Kobayashi will ever race in F1 again. That said; if they were given the opportunity, I think they could probably hold their own. You named 5 people who were either over the hill and retired, not F1 caliber to begin with or who had already washed out of F1. So no, I didn't agree with 2. I don't think any of those drivers would be even remotely attractive to any team on the grid today.

You're employing a very strange standard here. If Rossi and Kobayashi would hold their own in F1 by your own admission, they are clearly F1 level. Whether they have a realistic shot of being on the F1 grid is entirely irrelevant. You began by saying none of the drivers at Daytona were F1 caliber, then challenged us to name a single one who was:

Quote:
The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.
Quote:
Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...
Quote:
Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber?

Not one of these quotes references having an actual chance at making the grid. You used the term F1 caliber in every case. If Rossi and Kobayashi are F1 caliber, you were wrong and are simply refusing to admit it.

If neither of them have a shot at making the grid, how are they F1 caliber? I suppose, for me, there's a difference between someone like Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Vettel, Rosberg, Bottas, Webber, etc.; who will actually have an extended career in F1 and someone like Vandoorne, Hartley, Rossi, Sirotkin, etc.; who wash out as soon as their first contract is up. But it's ok by me if you want to say that I'm wrong. In fact, if you guys want to treat this like it's a third WDC for Alonso, go for it. I honestly did not come in here to argue about this race and will try to pretty much steer clear of the Alonso worship in this forum moving forward.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:52 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
If neither of them have a shot at making the grid, how are they F1 caliber? I suppose, for me, there's a difference between someone like Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Vettel, Rosberg, Bottas, Webber, etc.; who will actually have an extended career in F1 and someone like Vandoorne, Hartley, Rossi, Sirotkin, etc.; who wash out as soon as their first contract is up. But it's ok by me if you want to say that I'm wrong. In fact, if you guys want to treat this like it's a third WDC for Alonso, go for it. I honestly did not come in here to argue about this race and will try to pretty much steer clear of the Alonso worship in this forum moving forward.

It has nothing to do with Alonso worship, and everything to do with you not sticking by your own standards. But if you can't see how a driver holding their own against the average F1 driver makes them F1 caliber, then you're pretty much a lost cause in terms of rational debate anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:58 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I don't understand why Liberty are not pushing to get Rossi into F1, he has a good profile in America now and has driven a few races in F1 without looking out of place.

Liberty are American who are wanting to increase American interest at home and to that extent they are looking to have more than one race in America, there is also an American team that are very competitive, what am I missing here?

I think they may be trying - I know they tried to get Newgarden into the Haas, as well. But the problem is: why would either of them leave a championship team in IndyCar to make up the numbers in F1? Unless they could find Rossi a seat at Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes, he doesn't have much reason to stop fighting for championships in America to come fight for 7th in F1.

For me that just shows lack of ambition you either want to be an American Champion or a World Champion, if you fail then then there's always the route back to Indycar.

A top team is not going to sign an unproven driver, you show what you can do in F1 first like what Leclerc did.


Leclerc got his chance because he's a Ferrari jnr at the right time. Perez and Hulk have both excelled in the midfield over the years and will likely never sit in a top car and its not for performance reasons. Even a proven race winner like Ricciardo didn't get a look in at either Merc or Ferrari.

Rossi or Newgarden could easily end up impressing in F1 and never be given the chance to fight for more than 7th, its a fair point being made by Exediron I think, without at least being affiliated with a manufacturer like Leclerc then there's little point switching series. And even the affiliation isn't a guarantee, whatever your success is performance wise, Perez* and to a lesser extent Ocon, highlight this.

(*Ignore this part if he left Ferrari ranks himself to join Macca, I honestly can't recall)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:21 pm 
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On Alonso, epic drive and well deserved victory. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Going into other series and winning is one thing, we've seen that with Hulk. But going in and being the reason you won is something else and in both Daytona and LeMans he was the quickest driver so its a pretty special thing to do.

Nick Tandy was the quickest in Hulk's year iirc and Hulk is an above average F1 driver imo. There were a whole bunch of Nick Tandy's in both Daytona and Lemans that Alonso just dominated in such fashion so this idea any F1 calibre driver would be doing similar doesn't really stand up but I'm enjoying the irony its now Alonso's feats being hypothetically shared around the grid if they were given such a car to drive lol, it makes a nice change.

:twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:05 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
No I didn't say that nor did I contradict myself. I don't see any way that either Rossi or Kobayashi will ever race in F1 again. That said; if they were given the opportunity, I think they could probably hold their own. You named 5 people who were either over the hill and retired, not F1 caliber to begin with or who had already washed out of F1. So no, I didn't agree with 2. I don't think any of those drivers would be even remotely attractive to any team on the grid today.

You're employing a very strange standard here. If Rossi and Kobayashi would hold their own in F1 by your own admission, they are clearly F1 level. Whether they have a realistic shot of being on the F1 grid is entirely irrelevant. You began by saying none of the drivers at Daytona were F1 caliber, then challenged us to name a single one who was:

Quote:
The guys in the Daytona 24 hrs are not F1-caliber.
Quote:
Name one driver in the field who you feel is F1-caliber...
Quote:
Who in that field do you think is F1 caliber?

Not one of these quotes references having an actual chance at making the grid. You used the term F1 caliber in every case. If Rossi and Kobayashi are F1 caliber, you were wrong and are simply refusing to admit it.

If neither of them have a shot at making the grid, how are they F1 caliber? I suppose, for me, there's a difference between someone like Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Vettel, Rosberg, Bottas, Webber, etc.; who will actually have an extended career in F1 and someone like Vandoorne, Hartley, Rossi, Sirotkin, etc.; who wash out as soon as their first contract is up. But it's ok by me if you want to say that I'm wrong. In fact, if you guys want to treat this like it's a third WDC for Alonso, go for it. I honestly did not come in here to argue about this race and will try to pretty much steer clear of the Alonso worship in this forum moving forward.


Sensible decision... ;)
the only people left here will be his fans.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I don't understand why Liberty are not pushing to get Rossi into F1, he has a good profile in America now and has driven a few races in F1 without looking out of place.

Liberty are American who are wanting to increase American interest at home and to that extent they are looking to have more than one race in America, there is also an American team that are very competitive, what am I missing here?

I think they may be trying - I know they tried to get Newgarden into the Haas, as well. But the problem is: why would either of them leave a championship team in IndyCar to make up the numbers in F1? Unless they could find Rossi a seat at Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes, he doesn't have much reason to stop fighting for championships in America to come fight for 7th in F1.

For me that just shows lack of ambition you either want to be an American Champion or a World Champion, if you fail then then there's always the route back to Indycar.

A top team is not going to sign an unproven driver, you show what you can do in F1 first like what Leclerc did.


Leclerc got his chance because he's a Ferrari jnr at the right time. Perez and Hulk have both excelled in the midfield over the years and will likely never sit in a top car and its not for performance reasons. Even a proven race winner like Ricciardo didn't get a look in at either Merc or Ferrari.

Rossi or Newgarden could easily end up impressing in F1 and never be given the chance to fight for more than 7th, its a fair point being made by Exediron I think, without at least being affiliated with a manufacturer like Leclerc then there's little point switching series. And even the affiliation isn't a guarantee, whatever your success is performance wise, Perez* and to a lesser extent Ocon, highlight this.

(*Ignore this part if he left Ferrari ranks himself to join Macca, I honestly can't recall)

Perez left the Ferrari ranks himself but there was no guarantee of a Ferrari drive, I get the impression at the time that they were not as impressed with Perez as they are now with Leclerc?

You don't get gifted top drives just by being respectfully fast you need to show yourself to be something special, the problem with Perez and Hulk is they kind of cancelled each one out, Perez had known form against Button, a WDC when things unexpectedly fell into his lap, but ultimately a driver seen as being short of the ultimate fastest, then with Perez we see Ocon being able to match him, they can't all be superstars?

Leclerc was in a favourable position but he also destroyed his teammate, even if that was only Ericsson, but he was a rookie to boot, he showed himself to look like he was something special.

So say the likes of either Rossi and Newgarden got signed up by Haas then they have to beat Grosjean a driver with respectable speed, if they do that then surely there has to be a big commercial benefit to get such a driver in a top team?

I'm talking in terms of a WDC capable American driver not just putting a token American in a top team which the teams wouldn't allow anyway and circling back to the thread itself, Alonso making American based drivers look like amateurs in the wet conditions wouldn't be impressing the top teams either.

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