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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:38 pm 
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What's everyone's opinion of this?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14049 ... cs-in-2019

As long as they don't overdo it with all the new info then it could be quite good, not sure if casual fans will care that much though.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:17 pm 
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I hope that the screen would not be populated with data like at some video game, but I hope that the data would really be relevant.

More than that, I hope they improve in showing the action. They often, in the event of overtaking, switch to the camera on the car that has just apparently passed the other car, leaving us with question-mark about the position and maneuvers of the car that was just passed. I find it very frustrating to watch it that way.

Also, I find that, generally, broadcast would benefit from higher positioned cameras.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:09 pm 
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I said it in another thread on here: the overtaking one is going to add nothing to the broadcast. Nobody is going to be looking at it as the overtake takes place (or doesn't).

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I said it in another thread on here: the overtaking one is going to add nothing to the broadcast. Nobody is going to be looking at it as the overtake takes place (or doesn't).

I don't know, it could have been useful information for Vettel to have had in Suzuka.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Would be good if they could get the current graphics working properly first. A fair few occasions last season they disappeared of the screen which was annoying.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I said it in another thread on here: the overtaking one is going to add nothing to the broadcast. Nobody is going to be looking at it as the overtake takes place (or doesn't).

I don't know, it could have been useful information for Vettel to have had in Suzuka.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:47 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I said it in another thread on here: the overtaking one is going to add nothing to the broadcast. Nobody is going to be looking at it as the overtake takes place (or doesn't).

I don't know, it could have been useful information for Vettel to have had in Suzuka.

I suppose (in seriousness) if the technology exists teams could already be using it? Little beep in the ear early in the straight when the tech judges that the overtake is possible (based on closing speeds and such).

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:11 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I said it in another thread on here: the overtaking one is going to add nothing to the broadcast. Nobody is going to be looking at it as the overtake takes place (or doesn't).

I don't know, it could have been useful information for Vettel to have had in Suzuka.

I suppose (in seriousness) if the technology exists teams could already be using it? Little beep in the ear early in the straight when the tech judges that the overtake is possible (based on closing speeds and such).

I would imagine the drivers already have a very good intuitive grasp of things like that. But I think what you're suggesting would be a driver aid, so probably banned.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:02 am 
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I wonder if it will take into account the drivers involved. Ricciardo behind heading down toward T1 at Monza = 100%. Anyone behind Verstappen = 0%.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:26 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I wonder if it will take into account the drivers involved. Ricciardo behind heading down toward T1 at Monza = 100%. Anyone behind Verstappen = 0%.

Machine Learning algorithms can take anything as a vector, and the driver is certainly one of those things. It would probably involve a multilayered neural network, which each layer being a new set of values calculated based on the previous set until it provides a list of labeled probable outcomes. The only problem is, F1 doesn't have a huge quantity of training and testing data with which to calibrate. The tyre life is different as they will have all of the data from every race, practice session and testing for all 20 cars. This is a fairly consistent dataset, but overtaking is a much rarer event and influenced by many different factors, which are constantly changing with the technical regulations. However, it doesn't actually have to be accurate - it has to add to the entertainment and this means that the probability psychology is more important than computer science. For example, the human brain will intuitively treat 95% as a certainty - as a result, in most video games made by major studios who focus test a lot, if a stat says "95%" it is usually coded as 100% because if a play ever gets a negative result with a 95% thing, they feel they've been cheated and are more likely to stop playing, even if the probability was fairly observed. From this point of view, you could say that people would see 90% - 100% as a sure pass, 70% - 90% as "close enough to have a go and get by if they are lucky" , 50%-70% as "close enough to get a look by not get by unless the other driver makes a mistake" and below 50% as the driver ahead is safe. (percentages, rough guesses on my behalf) - and if a percetage given didn't fit audience expectations then they'd consider it to be a load of rubbish.

I mean, the weather gives us this experience in the real world all the time. If the weather forecaster says "10% chance of rain" and it rains, we'd say "stupid weather forecasters, what do they know" even if it should actually rain 1 in 10 days that they give that percentage.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:37 am 
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Dumbest idea I’ve heard since the whole qualifying mixup mess from 3 seasons ago.
Any real fan and studentnof racing can see if and when a driver has a genuine chance at attempting annovertake, and the probability factor in that is a complete and utter useless joke of a prediction to even think can be guessed upon. How many times this season did we see a
Car zip down the outside to overtake someone only to see the driver on the inside line brake much later than at any point in the race to fend off/retake the position?!?

Can an algorithm predict such a scenario?… not in a millennium.

Just more crap to clutter the screen!

I think the left side graphic showing drivers and positions is more than enough graphic.
The G-force gyroscope graphic that displayed acceleration and braking forces was fine too but it wasn’t a static fixture on the screen all the time. That’s the only thing I think is cool and beneficial. The probability of a driver attempting and completing an overtake is for lack of a better term…
Ri-God-Damned-Diculous!

Thank you John Wayne for creating such an eloquent word! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:43 am 
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That "overtake probability" bit looks a bit stupid to me. How is that calculated? And how is that going to improve the show?

Also I fear it'd backfire at a lot of tracks where the probability of an overtake would realistically rarely rise above 10%.

What I'd like to see is a "ghost car" in qualifying reviews like is common in video games. That would be so much better than the 1980s-style split-screen they still use, and surely it wouldn't be hard to implement. The cars are tracked down to the mm with GPS.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:41 pm 
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i don't need any more screen graphics, but the idea they are going to use some of this to see where tracks may be able to make a change for better racing....hope that works


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:28 pm 
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It should just be available on an app where users can select what they want to see. Don't crowd the TV screen or cut away to some analysis with your new gadget, I want to watch the race.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
That "overtake probability" bit looks a bit stupid to me. How is that calculated? And how is that going to improve the show?

Also I fear it'd backfire at a lot of tracks where the probability of an overtake would realistically rarely rise above 10%.

What I'd like to see is a "ghost car" in qualifying reviews like is common in video games. That would be so much better than the 1980s-style split-screen they still use, and surely it wouldn't be hard to implement. The cars are tracked down to the mm with GPS.

They tried this in 2009 (in Bahrain I think - the Brawn was used as the ghost car) and it was a nice feature, then it just disappeared forever!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:48 pm 
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If its anything like the artificial stupidity used to wright the articles most places now it wil have no relevance at all.

I wish I could 'opt out' of most of the graphic we currently get.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:24 pm 
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Improving racing and overtaking is one of the main priorities right now so investing money to evaluate and understand in better can only be a good thing. If it works they'll have a raft of data to compare different tracks as well as how technical changes year on year make a difference. It wouldn't need to be perfect but if it helps then it is money will spent. If they can justify more investment by trialing on screen graphics then fair enough. If it doesn't make much difference in either area then it's not like they'd have lost much.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:01 am 
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It is much more information than I want to know. It reminds me of major league baseball telling us how fast a bit ball is going... Who cares? I have to agree with mercenary...just more screen clutter, and possibly get another reason to not bother watching.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:11 am 
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While i'm going to withhold my final judgement on the concept until I see it in action for a race or two, my initial thoughts strongly echo most of those here.

It's basically too much of useless information & I can't see it adding any real value to my viewing experience.

I don't want to know what the percentage chance is of an overtake being successful is and I don't want my TV screen being crowded by stupid graphics.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:02 pm 
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I watched the final race in Thailand. In a pub that also had an Arsenal game on, so you can guess which sport had the benefit of sound.

You know what... I think I enjoyed the fact I didn't have as much information as normal. Seemed a bit more exciting to me.

I guess you can have too much information! Nothing else to distract you from the actual racing.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:00 pm 
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If they use it to help a harried broadcast director to pick the right cameras so that they get the best shots at any given time then bring it on. Have seen many times where the directory missed great racing action while concentrating on stuff that was not important. I don't want to see in car camera footage from a driver who is just cruising when there is a good fight for position going on. If it can predict overtakes and good duels then make sure that the cameras don't miss the battle even if you have to follow one battle and then replay the other one.


It is nice to have an interactive website going with a live race. Being able to check intervals between any given pair of drivers can be handy. Other info such as current tire compound, laps since last pit, and measures of tire degradation are nice to have, but I think they need to be things you pull up and not just information that is "sprayed" at you.

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