planetf1.com

Yeah, he expected Ocon who was 2 laps down to act like he usually does even when fighting for positions with any of the top 3 and not even bother to fight.

For whatever reason Ocon chose that day to do differently and contest the apex for T2. Maybe its because it was his penultimate race, maybe it was just because he had the tyres to do so for a lap or two, maybe it was because he doesn't like Max, maybe it was because as a Mercedes junior putting Max in a tough spot whatever he chose to do would go down well or maybe he just had the hump because he was having a tough weekend. Or maybe it was just a mixture of them all or something ele.

But I can see why Max would think he wouldn't fight, we've seen Ocon all year wave guys by even for position in the top 6 so its understandable to me anyway. I expected Ocon to do what Bottas did against Ricciardo and just pull up before T2 but he didn't.

Another lesson learned for Max along the way.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

So Hamilton also would see a blue flag, closing the gap to Max prolly DRS, and after 2 laps tops, they would again overtake Ocon, what a freaking circus you propose. Pathetic ocon don`t have race pace to challenge leaders, even on fresh tyres, he would last maximum 2 laps ahead of them.

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WHY !!! do people (e.g. "Lotus49") keep saying that Ocon was 2 laps down ? He had just been lapped once.

He finished one lap down, so IF he had been 2 laps down he must have sneaked up and unlapped himself later, passing Verstaffen and Hamilton without anyone noticing.

WEIRD.

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I was wondering the same. I think Ocon himself mentioned that he was 2 laps down, when he was classified as finishing only 1 lap behind in the end.

Easy Jos, read again. There have been cases that for whatever reason a top car has been lapped, for example to change damage parts after a first lap incident etc. The car can unlap itself since they are fast enough. It is not a circus proposal...

It is weird because Ocon said it on Sky but reading it more closely now he just means he was behind Max for 2 laps before the incident so fair enough.



Esteban Ocon: "I was two laps behind Max. The first lap I was a lot faster, the second lap I was a lot faster. I had fresh tyres and the rules say you are allowed to unlap yourself if you are faster and that's what I did on the second lap as I still saw I had massive pace.

"I went around the outside of him, that's the same move I did on Fernando [Alonso] and the same move I did on many drivers coming from last in the first lap. But it didn't happen the same way in the corner after that."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... rks-debate

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

We don't need blue flags for the leaders - that will just add confusion. If a lapped car is in a position to unlap itself, is it so difficult for the teams to advise their drivers via the radio? I'm pretty sure that's what both RPFI (Ocon) and RBR (Verstappen) did.
From my perspective, if a lapped car is obviously faster than a leader, the leader should be advised accordingly by his team if they feel it will not compromise the leader's race. As for the car unlapping itself, it should do so cleanly. In Ocon's case, he managed to get alongside / slightly in front of Verstappen approaching the first corner but Verstappen defended into turn 2. I think that Ocon should have backed out at that point. Unlap yourself if you can cleanly, by all means, but do not get involved in a race with a car you are a lap down on.

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Verstappen wasn't defending?

https://youtu.be/2SFltAGiExg?t=72

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I think it's a confusion with Ocon saying for 2 laps he was behind Verstappen being changed to he was 2 laps behind Verstappen?

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This covers every aspect of the incident including possible driver motives, it actually says all the things I've already said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SFltAGiExg

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Another opinion which covers what I also said about a back marker is allowed to unlap himself but what if the leader decides that's not going to happen, the leader can be as aggressive as he wants as opposed to the back marker who has to be respectfully quite passive and it's almost like if the back marker needs permission from the leader.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... tbTi91AmpQ

Don't get me wrong I think the stewards were right to penalise Ocon even if the drivers were both responsible for the incident, you can't have a backmarker going 50/50 with the leader of the race and going forward from that it could set an unwelcome precedent going down the lines of even race fixing.

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As long as there is a rule that permits a backmarker to unlap himself, they are an aspect of race day that *must* be managed just like any other detail. And if that had happened the spectators watching on TV and in the stands would have had such a richer experience; the commentators would be talking about how mature our F1 drivers are, and how the racing spectacle includes even the unexpected.

Verstapen and critics can be right about all the reasons the unlap rule is wrong, but when a driver loses a race because of an unnecessarily risky driving decision he made, that is on him and his team who where unprepared for a perfectly legitimate racing scenario.

Ocon was punished for different rules that his driving may have violated, not because he tried to do anything wrong, but because incidentally it didn't work out.

Ocons violation resulted in a penalty Verstapen is unhappy about mainly because he think the costed of his victory is way more valuable to him than the penalty was to Ocon. And he is right about that. As long as he is driving his car and leading the race, he is in control of the winning strategy, or in this case a non-winning strategy. To me, this attitude of placing all blame on the backmarker is the classic childishness of an individual stuck on externalisation of responsibility.

The question is how long will it take for him to grow up. Not whether F1 rules need to be changed to accommodate the childishness of a future protege.

This line of answering people is a bit unnecessary and uncalled for. He never disrespected or talked down to you and merely stated how he saw the situation and he is rather 100% correct.
Overzealous fans like yourself need to check your egos and look to LEARN all aspects of racing thoroughly so you can understand the intricacies involved in assessing incidents with total neutrality, and realize the things each driver did wrong before rushing out to attack others simply because they disagree with your opinion.

Did you ever ponder that whatever grin Ocon gave Max was more along the lines of hey, your bullying tactics finally cost you big, so choke on your own pride and arrogance, in which case a grin is more than well deserved? To quote Sir Lancelot… Your rage has unbalanced you, and you failed to see the complete picture and saw only smart alecness in Ocon's grin.
If I were Ocon I'd have been the one to approach Verstappen to tell him your antics need to stop or this will continue to happen, and next time I'm going to punch you so hard, the next time you sit on the toilet you're going to hear the distinct sound of enamel meeting porcelain you thumb sucking sloth!!!

I mean seriously, if you were in Ocon's position and Max moved over on you, you wouldn't be singing his praises, so don't go around chastising other drivers.

And just so the complete picture is laid out…

Ocon did everything within the rules and regulations and was on fresher tires and was the faster driver. Verstappen got a good run on him going into turn one but Ocon gave Verstappen space and then re-positioned himself perfecty to regain the advantage exiting turn one and pulled up alongside Verstappen, But Verstappen… Rather than give Ocon the same space, chose to slam the door and force him off track AS HE USUALLY TENDS TO DO and put too much of a squeeze on Ocon and Verstappen's own actions caused the contact.

If you can't see that you have much to learn about racing and I urge you to find a local Kart Track and gain some first hand experience so you may find yourself in similar type situations and garner a better understanding these types of situations. I guarantee you'll see things from a whole new perspective. Moving forward, I advise you lessen your tone for your own sake, as well as that of this forum and quit the name calling because it will result in a ban.

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HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY

Verstappen made the mistake, simples, Ocon had every right to unlap himself. If after the overtake, Verstappen starts to catch Ocon, then Ocon would receive the Blue flag and would have to move over, however, this probably wouldn’t have happened as Max could manage the gap to Hamilton who was not catching him anyway. More immature behaviour and arrogance from Max, hopefully he may grow up soon!

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Hard Work Never Killed Anyone, But Why Take The Risk ?

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Just to prove how bad Verstappen's self-knowledge is ;

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... llision-f1

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Besides genuine radio problems and drivers ignoring team calls, I would argue that the blue flag rules as we know them now, are counterproductive, and should be turned back to the original meanings. A blue flag meaning a faster car is approaching and looking to overtake. I'm confident even Max Verstappen might understand such a simple concept.

I admit I don't remember what brought on the change from simple blue flag rules to taking away a backmarker's right to run his own race, but I recall Prost not getting through traffic as easily as Senna, before the change. The only really needed intervention that should have been considered at that time, was making it clear to hard-headed drivers like Senna, that threatening an accident will occur unless a place is given up pronto, would be a severe penalty. Not handing leaders an extra advantage, which is the route they actually took. (Note: I don't know whether Senna vs Prost was what initiated the change, I just used the example.)

The current blue flag rule is used every race, whereas a potential equalizer such as the Spectacle Car being sent out is getting mercifully less likely now. So remove the unsporting current blue flag rule.

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I believe in the past blue flags were just advisory and could basically be ignored?

This progressively became a problem when it became harder to overtake so it was taken away from the backmarkers how nice they might decide to be?

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Common sense is available already.


If you are leading a race and a lapped car, on new tyres, closes in hot, you just stay out of the fúcking way.


Besides, could you imagine the confusion if a blue flag had ambiguous meaning? And you really want to avoid introducing more and more flags to wave at drivers.

If everything about this maneuver went down the same with one exception:

At turn 2, Max instead maintains a wider, slower trajectory and drifts to the left curb to give Ocon space, then Ocon gets round turn 2 unscathed and accelerates round the long left handed turn 3 alongside Max, and then eventually along the straight towards turn 4 he pulls clear of Max and Max tucks in behind Ocon and the two continue.

If that had happened, would anyone be criticising Ocon at all at any point of the turn 1 to turn 4 maneuver? I seriously doubt it, they would view it as him trying to pass the slower leader in a fair way, Martin Brundle would say ''great driving from the pair of them'' and that would pretty much be the end of it.

So yeah, Ocon's 10 second penalty was a complete joke in my opinion, and it's really concerning why the powers that be, don't want to define racing etiquette more clearly in the rules as if they did then they would not have as much freedom to dish out random penalties like this.

I tend to agree. Everyone has let Max's "but I was the leader!!!" whining taint the discussion of the actual racing.

If that had been a tangle for the lead, it would have been dismissed as a racing incident. Ocon was very aggressive, continuing to attack the corner after getting a wheel overlap. Max either decided the corner was his and went straight fort he apex (which he does very often), or he didn't see Ocon.

Either way, a racing incident.



But of course, that is irrelevant. Max shouldn't have been fúcking racing Ocon on the first place.

Not a racing incident, Max clearly crowded a car that was alongside him. I'd dare say that Max would have received a penalty

If it was for the lead, then Max 'should' be given a penalty for crowding a car off the track up the inside of the corner, (probably 90% of the 'crowd offs' occur on corner exit with a car being crowded off the outside of the track, but there are still occasional corner entry inside 'crowd offs' like this one that happen too).

Now because you aren't allowed to crowd another car off the track, this would be a penalty for Max. Whether he would have got it or not is another issue.

Also, even in this exact situation it still should have been a penalty to Max, because a car a lap ahead is not allowed to crowd a car a lap behind off the track, as all cars are equally important when it comes to racing etiquette and what you can and can't do to each other.