planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:12 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 5017
Yeah, he expected Ocon who was 2 laps down to act like he usually does even when fighting for positions with any of the top 3 and not even bother to fight.

For whatever reason Ocon chose that day to do differently and contest the apex for T2. Maybe its because it was his penultimate race, maybe it was just because he had the tyres to do so for a lap or two, maybe it was because he doesn't like Max, maybe it was because as a Mercedes junior putting Max in a tough spot whatever he chose to do would go down well or maybe he just had the hump because he was having a tough weekend. Or maybe it was just a mixture of them all or something ele.

But I can see why Max would think he wouldn't fight, we've seen Ocon all year wave guys by even for position in the top 6 so its understandable to me anyway. I expected Ocon to do what Bottas did against Ricciardo and just pull up before T2 but he didn't.

Another lesson learned for Max along the way.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 4:05 pm
Posts: 198
pendulumeffect wrote:
If we are to have blue flags that let pace setters pass backmarkers safely, and not interfere with each other's race, then if the race leader becomes slower than the lapped car, surely then he must be also given a blue flag or a new type of flag and maybe a radio message to let the faster back marker be unlapped?

Isn't that common sense? It does not happen often but this scenario ought to have been thought of when blue flags were introduced. It's inevitably going to happen.


So Hamilton also would see a blue flag, closing the gap to Max prolly DRS, and after 2 laps tops, they would again overtake Ocon, what a freaking circus you propose. Pathetic ocon don`t have race pace to challenge leaders, even on fresh tyres, he would last maximum 2 laps ahead of them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:58 pm
Posts: 89
.

WHY !!! do people (e.g. "Lotus49") keep saying that Ocon was 2 laps down ? He had just been lapped once.

He finished one lap down, so IF he had been 2 laps down he must have sneaked up and unlapped himself later, passing Verstaffen and Hamilton without anyone noticing.

WEIRD.

.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6650
Greenman wrote:
.

WHY !!! do people (e.g. "Lotus49") keep saying that Ocon was 2 laps down ? He had just been lapped once.

He finished one lap down, so IF he had been 2 laps down he must have sneaked up and unlapped himself later, passing Verstaffen and Hamilton without anyone noticing.

WEIRD.

.

I was wondering the same. I think Ocon himself mentioned that he was 2 laps down, when he was classified as finishing only 1 lap behind in the end.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6650
Filip wrote:
pendulumeffect wrote:
If we are to have blue flags that let pace setters pass backmarkers safely, and not interfere with each other's race, then if the race leader becomes slower than the lapped car, surely then he must be also given a blue flag or a new type of flag and maybe a radio message to let the faster back marker be unlapped?

Isn't that common sense? It does not happen often but this scenario ought to have been thought of when blue flags were introduced. It's inevitably going to happen.


So Hamilton also would see a blue flag, closing the gap to Max prolly DRS, and after 2 laps tops, they would again overtake Ocon, what a freaking circus you propose. Pathetic ocon don`t have race pace to challenge leaders, even on fresh tyres, he would last maximum 2 laps ahead of them.

Easy Jos, read again. There have been cases that for whatever reason a top car has been lapped, for example to change damage parts after a first lap incident etc. The car can unlap itself since they are fast enough. It is not a circus proposal...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 5017
Greenman wrote:
.

WHY !!! do people (e.g. "Lotus49") keep saying that Ocon was 2 laps down ? He had just been lapped once.

He finished one lap down, so IF he had been 2 laps down he must have sneaked up and unlapped himself later, passing Verstaffen and Hamilton without anyone noticing.

WEIRD.

.


It is weird because Ocon said it on Sky but reading it more closely now he just means he was behind Max for 2 laps before the incident so fair enough. :lol:



Esteban Ocon: "I was two laps behind Max. The first lap I was a lot faster, the second lap I was a lot faster. I had fresh tyres and the rules say you are allowed to unlap yourself if you are faster and that's what I did on the second lap as I still saw I had massive pace.

"I went around the outside of him, that's the same move I did on Fernando [Alonso] and the same move I did on many drivers coming from last in the first lap. But it didn't happen the same way in the corner after that."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... rks-debate

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Last edited by Lotus49 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 2637
We don't need blue flags for the leaders - that will just add confusion. If a lapped car is in a position to unlap itself, is it so difficult for the teams to advise their drivers via the radio? I'm pretty sure that's what both RPFI (Ocon) and RBR (Verstappen) did.
From my perspective, if a lapped car is obviously faster than a leader, the leader should be advised accordingly by his team if they feel it will not compromise the leader's race. As for the car unlapping itself, it should do so cleanly. In Ocon's case, he managed to get alongside / slightly in front of Verstappen approaching the first corner but Verstappen defended into turn 2. I think that Ocon should have backed out at that point. Unlap yourself if you can cleanly, by all means, but do not get involved in a race with a car you are a lap down on.

_________________
Where I'm going, I don't need roads


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28712
Exediron wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
However.... what the hell was Verstappen thinking defending so aggressively?

Max wasn't defending at all. He just took his usual racing line and assumed Ocon would get out of the way. Still a questionable choice, but I don't believe he had any intention of defending from Ocon - he just assumed Ocon wasn't going to go for the move.

Verstappen wasn't defending?

https://youtu.be/2SFltAGiExg?t=72

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28712
Siao7 wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

WHY !!! do people (e.g. "Lotus49") keep saying that Ocon was 2 laps down ? He had just been lapped once.

He finished one lap down, so IF he had been 2 laps down he must have sneaked up and unlapped himself later, passing Verstaffen and Hamilton without anyone noticing.

WEIRD.

.

I was wondering the same. I think Ocon himself mentioned that he was 2 laps down, when he was classified as finishing only 1 lap behind in the end.

I think it's a confusion with Ocon saying for 2 laps he was behind Verstappen being changed to he was 2 laps behind Verstappen?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28712
This covers every aspect of the incident including possible driver motives, it actually says all the things I've already said. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SFltAGiExg

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28712
Another opinion which covers what I also said about a back marker is allowed to unlap himself but what if the leader decides that's not going to happen, the leader can be as aggressive as he wants as opposed to the back marker who has to be respectfully quite passive and it's almost like if the back marker needs permission from the leader.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... tbTi91AmpQ

Don't get me wrong I think the stewards were right to penalise Ocon even if the drivers were both responsible for the incident, you can't have a backmarker going 50/50 with the leader of the race and going forward from that it could set an unwelcome precedent going down the lines of even race fixing.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:55 pm
Posts: 229
As long as there is a rule that permits a backmarker to unlap himself, they are an aspect of race day that *must* be managed just like any other detail. And if that had happened the spectators watching on TV and in the stands would have had such a richer experience; the commentators would be talking about how mature our F1 drivers are, and how the racing spectacle includes even the unexpected.

Verstapen and critics can be right about all the reasons the unlap rule is wrong, but when a driver loses a race because of an unnecessarily risky driving decision he made, that is on him and his team who where unprepared for a perfectly legitimate racing scenario.

Ocon was punished for different rules that his driving may have violated, not because he tried to do anything wrong, but because incidentally it didn't work out.

Ocons violation resulted in a penalty Verstapen is unhappy about mainly because he think the costed of his victory is way more valuable to him than the penalty was to Ocon. And he is right about that. As long as he is driving his car and leading the race, he is in control of the winning strategy, or in this case a non-winning strategy. To me, this attitude of placing all blame on the backmarker is the classic childishness of an individual stuck on externalisation of responsibility.

The question is how long will it take for him to grow up. Not whether F1 rules need to be changed to accommodate the childishness of a future protege.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:38 pm
Posts: 1919
Location: Miami, Florida
DeadKenny wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
DeadKenny wrote:
Ocon was only 0.3 secs faster (not enough for any other car to overtake reasonably) and only for one lap, Therefore trying to suggest there was some need to unlap himself was only in Ocon's mind and probably because it was Max.

I have been a big fan of Ocon this season, but i can absolutely say that if he doesn't end up back , I won't be losing any sleep, the guy showed himself to be arrogant, selfish, (and with that disreputable grin that deserved to be slapped off his face) a pretty disreputable and petty human being :(

Gonna take something special to ever get me back on his side :( sad little man :(


Really? You don't like his grin? And he deserves to be slapped for that? So the criteria for you is not liking his face and the automatically you can slap them??? Nice...

0.3 sec was for one lap, since he was crowded off the track, so you can't tell if he would continue being faster or not. He was on fresh rubber, you don't want to get stuck behind a slower car, no matter who it is. Ocon got the go-ahead to unlap himself, Max was warned about a faster car coming, so what's the big freaking deal? The only thing Max had to do was to leave space, instead of trying to put another car that was alongside him into the kerbs.

That whole sentence can be thrown back to Max, arrogant, selfish, disreputable human being. And with a few more added on. Honestly, if he didn't have great driving skills he'd be a goner a long time now.


Not sure if you really are that stupid or just a troll ? The grin on his face said, "i know i lost you the race, and i am glad because i am a petty person who cares less about fair than he does about being a selfish oaf" and yes that deserves a slap in my opinion, as he caused an accident and didn't care ?

but clearly as a max hater, it doesn't matter to you either ? sad :(

This line of answering people is a bit unnecessary and uncalled for. He never disrespected or talked down to you and merely stated how he saw the situation and he is rather 100% correct.
Overzealous fans like yourself need to check your egos and look to LEARN all aspects of racing thoroughly so you can understand the intricacies involved in assessing incidents with total neutrality, and realize the things each driver did wrong before rushing out to attack others simply because they disagree with your opinion.

Did you ever ponder that whatever grin Ocon gave Max was more along the lines of hey, your bullying tactics finally cost you big, so choke on your own pride and arrogance, in which case a grin is more than well deserved? To quote Sir Lancelot… Your rage has unbalanced you, and you failed to see the complete picture and saw only smart alecness in Ocon's grin.
If I were Ocon I'd have been the one to approach Verstappen to tell him your antics need to stop or this will continue to happen, and next time I'm going to punch you so hard, the next time you sit on the toilet you're going to hear the distinct sound of enamel meeting porcelain you thumb sucking sloth!!!

I mean seriously, if you were in Ocon's position and Max moved over on you, you wouldn't be singing his praises, so don't go around chastising other drivers.

And just so the complete picture is laid out…

Ocon did everything within the rules and regulations and was on fresher tires and was the faster driver. Verstappen got a good run on him going into turn one but Ocon gave Verstappen space and then re-positioned himself perfecty to regain the advantage exiting turn one and pulled up alongside Verstappen, But Verstappen… Rather than give Ocon the same space, chose to slam the door and force him off track AS HE USUALLY TENDS TO DO and put too much of a squeeze on Ocon and Verstappen's own actions caused the contact.

If you can't see that you have much to learn about racing and I urge you to find a local Kart Track and gain some first hand experience so you may find yourself in similar type situations and garner a better understanding these types of situations. I guarantee you'll see things from a whole new perspective. Moving forward, I advise you lessen your tone for your own sake, as well as that of this forum and quit the name calling because it will result in a ban.

_________________
HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 45
Verstappen made the mistake, simples, Ocon had every right to unlap himself. If after the overtake, Verstappen starts to catch Ocon, then Ocon would receive the Blue flag and would have to move over, however, this probably wouldn’t have happened as Max could manage the gap to Hamilton who was not catching him anyway. More immature behaviour and arrogance from Max, hopefully he may grow up soon!

_________________
Hard Work Never Killed Anyone, But Why Take The Risk ? :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:58 pm
Posts: 89
.

Just to prove how bad Verstappen's self-knowledge is ;

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... llision-f1

.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 7404
Location: Belgium
tootsie323 wrote:
We don't need blue flags for the leaders - that will just add confusion. If a lapped car is in a position to unlap itself, is it so difficult for the teams to advise their drivers via the radio? I'm pretty sure that's what both RPFI (Ocon) and RBR (Verstappen) did.
From my perspective, if a lapped car is obviously faster than a leader, the leader should be advised accordingly by his team if they feel it will not compromise the leader's race. As for the car unlapping itself, it should do so cleanly. In Ocon's case, he managed to get alongside / slightly in front of Verstappen approaching the first corner but Verstappen defended into turn 2. I think that Ocon should have backed out at that point. Unlap yourself if you can cleanly, by all means, but do not get involved in a race with a car you are a lap down on.
Besides genuine radio problems and drivers ignoring team calls, I would argue that the blue flag rules as we know them now, are counterproductive, and should be turned back to the original meanings. A blue flag meaning a faster car is approaching and looking to overtake. I'm confident even Max Verstappen might understand such a simple concept.

I admit I don't remember what brought on the change from simple blue flag rules to taking away a backmarker's right to run his own race, but I recall Prost not getting through traffic as easily as Senna, before the change. The only really needed intervention that should have been considered at that time, was making it clear to hard-headed drivers like Senna, that threatening an accident will occur unless a place is given up pronto, would be a severe penalty. Not handing leaders an extra advantage, which is the route they actually took. (Note: I don't know whether Senna vs Prost was what initiated the change, I just used the example.)

The current blue flag rule is used every race, whereas a potential equalizer such as the Spectacle Car being sent out is getting mercifully less likely now. So remove the unsporting current blue flag rule.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28712
Fiki wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
We don't need blue flags for the leaders - that will just add confusion. If a lapped car is in a position to unlap itself, is it so difficult for the teams to advise their drivers via the radio? I'm pretty sure that's what both RPFI (Ocon) and RBR (Verstappen) did.
From my perspective, if a lapped car is obviously faster than a leader, the leader should be advised accordingly by his team if they feel it will not compromise the leader's race. As for the car unlapping itself, it should do so cleanly. In Ocon's case, he managed to get alongside / slightly in front of Verstappen approaching the first corner but Verstappen defended into turn 2. I think that Ocon should have backed out at that point. Unlap yourself if you can cleanly, by all means, but do not get involved in a race with a car you are a lap down on.
Besides genuine radio problems and drivers ignoring team calls, I would argue that the blue flag rules as we know them now, are counterproductive, and should be turned back to the original meanings. A blue flag meaning a faster car is approaching and looking to overtake. I'm confident even Max Verstappen might understand such a simple concept.

I admit I don't remember what brought on the change from simple blue flag rules to taking away a backmarker's right to run his own race, but I recall Prost not getting through traffic as easily as Senna, before the change. The only really needed intervention that should have been considered at that time, was making it clear to hard-headed drivers like Senna, that threatening an accident will occur unless a place is given up pronto, would be a severe penalty. Not handing leaders an extra advantage, which is the route they actually took. (Note: I don't know whether Senna vs Prost was what initiated the change, I just used the example.)

The current blue flag rule is used every race, whereas a potential equalizer such as the Spectacle Car being sent out is getting mercifully less likely now. So remove the unsporting current blue flag rule.

I believe in the past blue flags were just advisory and could basically be ignored?

This progressively became a problem when it became harder to overtake so it was taken away from the backmarkers how nice they might decide to be?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:36 pm
Posts: 20
pendulumeffect wrote:
If we are to have blue flags that let pace setters pass backmarkers safely, and not interfere with each other's race, then if the race leader becomes slower than the lapped car, surely then he must be also given a blue flag or a new type of flag and maybe a radio message to let the faster back marker be unlapped?

Isn't that common sense? It does not happen often but this scenario ought to have been thought of when blue flags were introduced. It's inevitably going to happen.



Common sense is available already.


If you are leading a race and a lapped car, on new tyres, closes in hot, you just stay out of the fúcking way.


Besides, could you imagine the confusion if a blue flag had ambiguous meaning? And you really want to avoid introducing more and more flags to wave at drivers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 31
If everything about this maneuver went down the same with one exception:

At turn 2, Max instead maintains a wider, slower trajectory and drifts to the left curb to give Ocon space, then Ocon gets round turn 2 unscathed and accelerates round the long left handed turn 3 alongside Max, and then eventually along the straight towards turn 4 he pulls clear of Max and Max tucks in behind Ocon and the two continue.

If that had happened, would anyone be criticising Ocon at all at any point of the turn 1 to turn 4 maneuver? I seriously doubt it, they would view it as him trying to pass the slower leader in a fair way, Martin Brundle would say ''great driving from the pair of them'' and that would pretty much be the end of it.

So yeah, Ocon's 10 second penalty was a complete joke in my opinion, and it's really concerning why the powers that be, don't want to define racing etiquette more clearly in the rules as if they did then they would not have as much freedom to dish out random penalties like this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:36 pm
Posts: 20
F1 Racer wrote:
If everything about this maneuver went down the same with one exception:

At turn 2, Max instead maintains a wider, slower trajectory and drifts to the left curb to give Ocon space, then Ocon gets round turn 2 unscathed and accelerates round the long left handed turn 3 alongside Max, and then eventually along the straight towards turn 4 he pulls clear of Max and Max tucks in behind Ocon and the two continue.

If that had happened, would anyone be criticising Ocon at all at any point of the turn 1 to turn 4 maneuver? I seriously doubt it, they would view it as him trying to pass the slower leader in a fair way, Martin Brundle would say ''great driving from the pair of them'' and that would pretty much be the end of it.

So yeah, Ocon's 10 second penalty was a complete joke in my opinion, and it's really concerning why the powers that be, don't want to define racing etiquette more clearly in the rules as if they did then they would not have as much freedom to dish out random penalties like this.


I tend to agree. Everyone has let Max's "but I was the leader!!!" whining taint the discussion of the actual racing.

If that had been a tangle for the lead, it would have been dismissed as a racing incident. Ocon was very aggressive, continuing to attack the corner after getting a wheel overlap. Max either decided the corner was his and went straight fort he apex (which he does very often), or he didn't see Ocon.

Either way, a racing incident.



But of course, that is irrelevant. Max shouldn't have been fúcking racing Ocon on the first place.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6650
Geckko65 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
If everything about this maneuver went down the same with one exception:

At turn 2, Max instead maintains a wider, slower trajectory and drifts to the left curb to give Ocon space, then Ocon gets round turn 2 unscathed and accelerates round the long left handed turn 3 alongside Max, and then eventually along the straight towards turn 4 he pulls clear of Max and Max tucks in behind Ocon and the two continue.

If that had happened, would anyone be criticising Ocon at all at any point of the turn 1 to turn 4 maneuver? I seriously doubt it, they would view it as him trying to pass the slower leader in a fair way, Martin Brundle would say ''great driving from the pair of them'' and that would pretty much be the end of it.

So yeah, Ocon's 10 second penalty was a complete joke in my opinion, and it's really concerning why the powers that be, don't want to define racing etiquette more clearly in the rules as if they did then they would not have as much freedom to dish out random penalties like this.


I tend to agree. Everyone has let Max's "but I was the leader!!!" whining taint the discussion of the actual racing.

If that had been a tangle for the lead, it would have been dismissed as a racing incident. Ocon was very aggressive, continuing to attack the corner after getting a wheel overlap. Max either decided the corner was his and went straight fort he apex (which he does very often), or he didn't see Ocon.

Either way, a racing incident.



But of course, that is irrelevant. Max shouldn't have been fúcking racing Ocon on the first place.


Not a racing incident, Max clearly crowded a car that was alongside him. I'd dare say that Max would have received a penalty


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 31
Geckko65 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
If everything about this maneuver went down the same with one exception:

At turn 2, Max instead maintains a wider, slower trajectory and drifts to the left curb to give Ocon space, then Ocon gets round turn 2 unscathed and accelerates round the long left handed turn 3 alongside Max, and then eventually along the straight towards turn 4 he pulls clear of Max and Max tucks in behind Ocon and the two continue.

If that had happened, would anyone be criticising Ocon at all at any point of the turn 1 to turn 4 maneuver? I seriously doubt it, they would view it as him trying to pass the slower leader in a fair way, Martin Brundle would say ''great driving from the pair of them'' and that would pretty much be the end of it.

So yeah, Ocon's 10 second penalty was a complete joke in my opinion, and it's really concerning why the powers that be, don't want to define racing etiquette more clearly in the rules as if they did then they would not have as much freedom to dish out random penalties like this.


I tend to agree. Everyone has let Max's "but I was the leader!!!" whining taint the discussion of the actual racing.

If that had been a tangle for the lead, it would have been dismissed as a racing incident. Ocon was very aggressive, continuing to attack the corner after getting a wheel overlap. Max either decided the corner was his and went straight fort he apex (which he does very often), or he didn't see Ocon.

Either way, a racing incident.



But of course, that is irrelevant. Max shouldn't have been fúcking racing Ocon on the first place.


If it was for the lead, then Max 'should' be given a penalty for crowding a car off the track up the inside of the corner, (probably 90% of the 'crowd offs' occur on corner exit with a car being crowded off the outside of the track, but there are still occasional corner entry inside 'crowd offs' like this one that happen too).

Now because you aren't allowed to crowd another car off the track, this would be a penalty for Max. Whether he would have got it or not is another issue.

Also, even in this exact situation it still should have been a penalty to Max, because a car a lap ahead is not allowed to crowd a car a lap behind off the track, as all cars are equally important when it comes to racing etiquette and what you can and can't do to each other.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: wire2004 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group