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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
lucifers wrote:
Hamilton will be in trouble with that block on sirotkin


I don't think the stewards will be impressed with his getting out of the way for Kimi either.


I don’t think a driver has ever got a penalty for blocking on an out lap. The Kimi one is more likely to be a penalty. Although again rare to get penalised for blocking on a straight.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Vettel in trouble for breaking the weigh bridge


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:51 pm 
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oh my Hamilton and vettel might get a penalty


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:02 pm 
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well done Hamilton but lets wait and see if he gets a penalty


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:06 pm 
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if it was Vettel it would be classed as dangerous driving


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:08 pm 
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Was there a driver Lewis didn't impede?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:08 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Vettel in trouble for breaking the weigh bridge


Yeah he could get excluded from qualifying for that. Was a bit mean of them to call him in for weighing at such a crucial time with rain just about to fall though.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:11 pm 
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So close between Ham and Seb. Lewis inching that one away. Doesn't look like he is going to suffer from post title clinch syndrome this year. Let's see if he gets to keep this pole. And Vettel with another possible costly mistake if he gets penalized. Ericsson outqualifying Leclerc for the first time in ages. The saubers are flying in Brazil. Alonso only one qualifying session away from sweeping the season matchup against Vandoorne. Has anyone ever done this?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:14 pm 
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I still personally think Leclerc has a big weakness in damp or wet conditions. That is unless Ericsson has significantly improved his driving in these conditions. As he's only finished a single full wet race in his entire f1 career. Each wet session this year, Ericsson has looked to struggle less than Leclerc each time. That being in Germany, and qualifyign in Hungary. Then here. the middle of Q2 looked very slippery and Ericsson seemed to manage it better. When it dried up a bit, Leclerc did manage to do a good improvement. But the following session, Ericsson seemed to manage better. And was 1 of only 2 drivers to improve on his 2nd run. I feel Ericsson's wet weather performance has improved. But it seems these conditions allow him to get the better of Leclerc. Is this because he's actually very good in the rain, or that Leclerc struggles? I think it is one of the two. If it is that he struggles, then I think that is certainly one area Vettel will have a huge advantage over him.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Another pole to add to the record books, if he can keep it.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Qualy done:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Just thinking about the penalty for Ricciardo, the likely one for Vettel, is is very possible that Sauber could start p5 and p6? I also wonder about the possibility if Hamilton will be getting any sort of penalty. I know Sirotkin didn't need to be going as fast as he was, but the change of direction hamilton did was extremely dangerous. The fact that it could have resulted in Sirotkin spinning off the track is enough to justify some sort of penalty IMO. Then there is the thing with Kimi too. So I do wonder if Ericsson could be starting p4. That would seem unusual!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:33 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Just thinking about the penalty for Ricciardo, the likely one for Vettel, is is very possible that Sauber could start p5 and p6? I also wonder about the possibility if Hamilton will be getting any sort of penalty. I know Sirotkin didn't need to be going as fast as he was, but the change of direction hamilton did was extremely dangerous. The fact that it could have resulted in Sirotkin spinning off the track is enough to justify some sort of penalty IMO. Then there is the thing with Kimi too. So I do wonder if Ericsson could be starting p4. That would seem unusual!


It just shows how strong Sauber is getting. It has to be the 4th best team atleast to accommodate Raikkonen next yea & Sauber has grown that much through this year.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:36 pm 
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It seems like a track that its very hard for a driver to make a difference. Looking at that, no team mates are more than 0.2 apart from each other from Q2 onwards except K-mag and Grosjean.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Vettel has a legitimate gripe with the weighbridge timing, especially in changing conditions, but to take matters into your own hands in such a fashion, and then try and mitigate it with 'I wanted them to hurry up'..... His head is gone.

I can see the FIA taking a supremely dim view of it, it's effectively failing to provide a measurement when requested to do so, compounded by him then roaring off in a hurry and wrecking the scales.

Lewis will be lucky to avoid getting his collar felt too, the Kimi one was bad enough but that Sirotkin incident could have been a car launcher.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:46 pm 
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If Vettel is under investigation for endangering steward/delegate safety in the weighbridge incident, the incident with Sirotkin was surely a worse case of endangering another participant, timed lap or not?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:46 pm 
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It's worth remembering that weigh bridge call-ups are random and computer generated. This isn't some 'eind Seb up' conspiracy. Vettel has to cut these explosions that go off in his brain when he feels wronged.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Vettel has a legitimate gripe with the weighbridge timing...

It's random. It is made clear it's random from the outset. If it's random there is the potential for it to happen at an inopportune time, but that is equally true for everyone.

The only legitimate gripe would be if they decided to wave Vettel through because it was changing conditions, and that gripe would be from his competitors. It's was understandable frustration at best and he let that get the better of him.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:51 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
It's worth remembering that weigh bridge call-ups are random and computer generated. This isn't some 'eind Seb up' conspiracy. Vettel has to cut these explosions that go off in his brain when he feels wronged.


Answered what I was just about to ask for confirmation of. That was my understanding. The weigh bridge acts on random numbers and pulls people in on its own at random intervals.

Terrible timing for Vettel though but just bad luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:53 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Vettel has a legitimate gripe with the weighbridge timing...

It's random. It is made clear it's random from the outset. If it's random there is the potential for it to happen at an inopportune time, but that is equally true for everyone.

The only legitimate gripe would be if they decided to wave Vettel through because it was changing conditions, and that gripe would be from his competitors. It's was understandable frustration at best and he let that get the better of him.


Oh, I know it's random, and I also know why it has to be random, but to call someone into the weighbridge, right on the cusp of rain beginning to fall and then not really appear to be ready for them either... I can understand his problem with it. Though with that said, the reaction to that problem is yet more evidence for the notion that Vettel's head simply isn't in the game right now, something he really does need to get on top of for next year.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:54 pm 
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chetan_rao wrote:
If Vettel is under investigation for endangering steward/delegate safety in the weighbridge incident, the incident with Sirotkin was surely a worse case of endangering another participant, timed lap or not?


Vettels reporting has zero to do with safety.

https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/ ... 3760692225


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
If Vettel is under investigation for endangering steward/delegate safety in the weighbridge incident, the incident with Sirotkin was surely a worse case of endangering another participant, timed lap or not?


Vettels reporting has zero to do with safety.

https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/ ... 3760692225


Fair enough. BBC was reporting he also drove at a delegate (the guy holding the 'brakes on' sign in the footage) when instructed to stop while they readied the scales.

I find it strange the stewards aren't even investigating the two Hamilton incidents. One almost caused a bad crash (though not a timed lap so not technically blocking but still dangerous driving), while the other included a driver on a timed lap needing to take evasive action.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:03 pm 
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chetan_rao wrote:
Johnson wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
If Vettel is under investigation for endangering steward/delegate safety in the weighbridge incident, the incident with Sirotkin was surely a worse case of endangering another participant, timed lap or not?


Vettels reporting has zero to do with safety.

https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/ ... 3760692225


Fair enough. BBC was reporting he also drove at a delegate (the guy holding the 'brakes on' sign in the footage) when instructed to stop while they readied the scales.

I find it strange the stewards aren't even investigating the two Hamilton incidents. One almost caused a bad crash (though not a timed lap so not technically blocking but still dangerous driving), while the other included a driver on a timed lap needing to take evasive action.


The video of Vettel is on the SkySports website.... he does have a little nibble at the accelerator when one of the weighbridge guys walks in front of the car. He ignores repeated calls to kill the engine though, and then does drive off as said in the statement, though not really at speed. I think the up and down bumping of the car over the scales where the wheels would be what has done the damage.

Just a silly thing to do really.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Personally I hope neither of them get a grid changing penalty.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
It's worth remembering that weigh bridge call-ups are random and computer generated. This isn't some 'eind Seb up' conspiracy. Vettel has to cut these explosions that go off in his brain when he feels wronged.


Answered what I was just about to ask for confirmation of. That was my understanding. The weigh bridge acts on random numbers and pulls people in on its own at random intervals.

Terrible timing for Vettel though but just bad luck.


I agree. It was Absolutely hideous luck for Seb.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Personally I hope neither of them get a grid changing penalty.


i agree now that the shackles are off i want to see those two racing each other hard.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Penalty decision aside, it's surprising F1 uses scales that can't handle a 700-odd kilo car driving on & off it without malfunctioning. Such low load tolerance, or just very sensitive mechanisms? It can't be they never accounted for a use case like today's incident.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:18 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:23 pm 
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chetan_rao wrote:
Penalty decision aside, it's surprising F1 uses scales that can't handle a 700-odd kilo car driving on & off it without malfunctioning. Such low load tolerance, or just very sensitive mechanisms? It can't be they never accounted for a use case like today's incident.


Sensitivity I imagine, the weighbridge I use at work for my HGV is constantly getting recalibrated because the vibrations of trucks driving over it puts it out of whack, and that thing only measures to the nearest 20kg. I imagine the scales used here have to measure down to the last gram, and Vettel's car does noticeably bounce up and down on them. If it knocked the calibration out, it renders their output useless.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:31 pm 
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I agree Flash, considering the drivers deliberately pick up rubber marbles at the end of the race to insure against going underweight the scales must be super accurate, being robust is probably low down on the priority list.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Vettel Incident - https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... aks-scales


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Was there a driver Lewis didn't impede?


Alonso, Vandoorne, Stroll, Gasly, Hartley, Ocon, Perez, Hulkenberg, Sainz Jr,, Ericsson, Leclerc, Magnussen, Grosjean, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Vettel and Bottas. That's 17 and Raikkonen was debatable. Sirotkin was doing something out of the ordinary and caught him out. Didn't cost either driver anything so what's the problem.


Last edited by Laz_T800 on Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:58 pm 
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chetan_rao wrote:
Penalty decision aside, it's surprising F1 uses scales that can't handle a 700-odd kilo car driving on & off it without malfunctioning. Such low load tolerance, or just very sensitive mechanisms? It can't be they never accounted for a use case like today's incident.


They possibly weren't actually broken, he maybe threw them out of calibration or something.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Hamilton not happy with Sirotkin who went against normal protocol and kind of the gentlemen agreement between drivers to not overtake one another in the last corner at the point when everybody is backing up to get space.

"Respectfully, between all the drivers, we all do respect [the gaps] - I could have tried to overtake Valtteri, or Valtteri whoever was in front of him. We all know [to] keep our space by that point.

"It was generally quite a disrespectful move. It was dangerous between us both."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13996 ... n-nearmiss


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Clarky wrote:

Getting the man holding up the "Brakes On" board to move out the way by revving the engine and rolling the car forward is what I don't like there.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Laz_T800 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Was there a driver Lewis didn't impede?


Alonso, Vandoorne, Stroll, Gasly, Hartley, Ocon, Perez, Hulkenberg, Sainz Jr,, Ericsson, Leclerc, Magnussen, Grosjean, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Vettel and Bottas. That's 17 and Raikkonen was debatable. Sirotkin was doing something out of the ordinary and caught him out. Didn't cost either driver anything so what's the problem.

Raikkonen didn't appear to lose any time and Sirotkin was not on a "fast" lap. Lewis was admittedly too late in moving out of the way in both instances, but is there any precedent of giving a penalty out in those circumstances?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:26 pm 
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Andrew Benson reporting on twitter:

Reprimand and 25.000 Euro fine.

Expensive those scales, eh?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:37 pm 
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What did the top six do their fastest times on in Q2? Seems they all went out on both compounds.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:40 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
What did the top six do their fastest times on in Q2? Seems they all went out on both compounds.


Ferrari's on Softs, everyone else on Supers IIRC

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:42 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
What did the top six do their fastest times on in Q2? Seems they all went out on both compounds.


Ferrari's on Softs, everyone else on Supers IIRC


Thanks :thumbup: hopefully bit of strategy variation tomorrow then.


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