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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Rockie, why defend the indefensible? Vettel goofed stop throwing out chaff. Hamilton and Sirotkin were both in the wrong but they were out on track not hustling FIA officials.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:45 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:

........ just the same as him ramming Lewis wasn't justified even if Lewis had brake tested him. ..........



Oh dear ! There goes your attempt at objectivity. Lewis did NOT attempt to brake test Vettel - the telemetry showed that.

.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie, why defend the indefensible? Vettel goofed stop throwing out chaff. Hamilton and Sirotkin were both in the wrong but they were out on track not hustling FIA officials.


So you are only out here to demonise Vettel then, good you cleared that up.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
dompclarke wrote:

........ just the same as him ramming Lewis wasn't justified even if Lewis had brake tested him. ..........



Oh dear ! There goes your attempt at objectivity. Lewis did NOT attempt to brake test Vettel - the telemetry showed that.

.


Talking about his objectivity, when a little reading comprehension would have sufficed.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Clarky wrote:
This video is even worse and makes the leniency of Vettel's penalty worse.

Go to 3:00 and watch just how close Vettel gets not once but twice to hitting the leg of the official.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNVTOsx-NLE


This video shows exactly why this stupid and outdated rule needs to be scrapped.

I can't imagine watching football and during a counter attacker a striker is pulled off to be drugged tested randomly, whether fans won't be mad or said player won't have a hissy fit.

But F1 is so partisan this days that fans will support and justify nonsense so long as they don't like the driver.

All cars enter parc ferme once qualifying starts, there are FIA cameras in the garages and FoM cameras why must this madness be allowed to continue, can the cars not be weighed at the end of qualifying?

How do you know what's possible and not possible, if it was deemed impossible for cars to run underweight for the reasons you have given then there would be no need to weigh cars during qualifying sessions.


Common sense and cars don't get weighed before they go onto the track after they are give back to the teams before the race and the FIA have no problems with weighing it after the race.

The teams have full access to the cars in between qualifying runs. Randomly weighing the cars after a qualifying run is necessary or they would have the freedom to add/remove weights during the session, thus allowing them to run the car underweight for any given qualifying lap. During the race is less of an issue as pitstops are conducted in full view of the TV cameras so it's much more difficult to play tricks like that.

It's why drivers are technically not allowed to celebrate with their mechanics until they have been weighed, although the importance of this seems to have been forgotten in recent years. It is not impossible to slip a lead block into the driver's overalls to add a bit of weight.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie, why defend the indefensible? Vettel goofed stop throwing out chaff. Hamilton and Sirotkin were both in the wrong but they were out on track not hustling FIA officials.


So you are only out here to demonise Vettel then, good you cleared that up.


Not at all, the discussion is about the most recent of a series of flare ups that Vettel seems unable to control. It looks like you just can't bare to admit that he has done something wrong.

Hamilton/Sirotkin is a different topic, if you think SV wasn't wrong say so but you are clearly avoiding that point


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:02 pm 
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j man wrote:
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Clarky wrote:
This video is even worse and makes the leniency of Vettel's penalty worse.

Go to 3:00 and watch just how close Vettel gets not once but twice to hitting the leg of the official.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNVTOsx-NLE


This video shows exactly why this stupid and outdated rule needs to be scrapped.

I can't imagine watching football and during a counter attacker a striker is pulled off to be drugged tested randomly, whether fans won't be mad or said player won't have a hissy fit.

But F1 is so partisan this days that fans will support and justify nonsense so long as they don't like the driver.

All cars enter parc ferme once qualifying starts, there are FIA cameras in the garages and FoM cameras why must this madness be allowed to continue, can the cars not be weighed at the end of qualifying?

How do you know what's possible and not possible, if it was deemed impossible for cars to run underweight for the reasons you have given then there would be no need to weigh cars during qualifying sessions.


Common sense and cars don't get weighed before they go onto the track after they are give back to the teams before the race and the FIA have no problems with weighing it after the race.

The teams have full access to the cars in between qualifying runs. Randomly weighing the cars after a qualifying run is necessary or they would have the freedom to add/remove weights during the session, thus allowing them to run the car underweight for any given qualifying lap. During the race is less of an issue as pitstops are conducted in full view of the TV cameras so it's much more difficult to play tricks like that.

It's why drivers are technically not allowed to celebrate with their mechanics until they have been weighed, although the importance of this seems to have been forgotten in recent years. It is not impossible to slip a lead block into the driver's overalls to add a bit of weight.


Probably read the Parc Ferme rules then you can have a proper argument about it!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie, why defend the indefensible? Vettel goofed stop throwing out chaff. Hamilton and Sirotkin were both in the wrong but they were out on track not hustling FIA officials.


So you are only out here to demonise Vettel then, good you cleared that up.


Not at all, the discussion is about the most recent of a series of flare ups that Vettel seems unable to control. It looks like you just can't bare to admit that he has done something wrong.

Hamilton/Sirotkin is a different topic, if you think SV wasn't wrong say so but you are clearly avoiding that point


The FiA has fined him for the part he messed up on what other flare ups are we talking about, thought it was just about this incident and not your bottled up dislike for Vettel.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I can't believe Vettel. You'd think that the hotheadedness would stop now that the title is decided...He also botched his hotlap in Q3 today. Made mistakes on both Q3 laps.


yeah, he should probably be banned for sure.
;)


No one has argued for a ban in here. Are you condoning that kind of behaviour?

I think it's just not liking the general criticism?


Poker, you are pretty close to being right. I don't condone Vettel's action in this instance. In fact, I have been disappointed in several instances by Seb over the last couple of years. However, one thing that can be counted on is that any misjudgement, real or imagined, fact of perception, gets jumped on over and over again.

Admittedly, it happens to all the top drivers and likely always will, it just seems as the kicking while they are down (particularly Nando and Seb this year) is worse than normal. Perhaps I AM being too sensitive, for that I apologize.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Fight!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
I'd agree Vettel was in the wrong, no matter the stewards actions it was not justified just the same as him ramming Lewis wasn't justified even if Lewis had brake tested him.
The main issues I see with what he did was potentially putting the stewards in danger, twice he moved towards the one clearing the cone he rammed and then when he drove off the scales could have done damage too. If he hadn't acted in ways that endangered stewards I don't think it would be as much of a problem, however he did endanger them.
What would peoples views be if he'd knocked over the steward removing the cone of someone had been hit by the ejected bits of the scales?


Do you feel the same way about Hamilton's infringement?

Had Sirotkin not taken avoiding action that could have ended in tears, if we are dealing in hypothetical.

My views on Hamilton's driving against Sirotkin are irrelevant to the discussion and the incidents are not similar enough for comparison, I'll avoid the word infringement as the stewards and Sirotkin seen to think he did nothing wrong.

The only relevance between the two is whether the stewards would have treated them differently had other drivers been involved instead of the top two in the championship...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
dompclarke wrote:

........ just the same as him ramming Lewis wasn't justified even if Lewis had brake tested him. ..........



Oh dear ! There goes your attempt at objectivity. Lewis did NOT attempt to brake test Vettel - the telemetry showed that.

.

Re read the comment i said IF Lewis has tested him, not that he had! Objectivity intact...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
dompclarke wrote:

........ just the same as him ramming Lewis wasn't justified even if Lewis had brake tested him. ..........



Oh dear ! There goes your attempt at objectivity. Lewis did NOT attempt to brake test Vettel - the telemetry showed that.

Your jumping on that so eagerly without even reading it through does, however, call your own objectivity into question...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie, why defend the indefensible? Vettel goofed stop throwing out chaff. Hamilton and Sirotkin were both in the wrong but they were out on track not hustling FIA officials.


So you are only out here to demonise Vettel then, good you cleared that up.


Not at all, the discussion is about the most recent of a series of flare ups that Vettel seems unable to control. It looks like you just can't bare to admit that he has done something wrong.

Hamilton/Sirotkin is a different topic, if you think SV wasn't wrong say so but you are clearly avoiding that point


The FiA has fined him for the part he messed up on what other flare ups are we talking about, thought it was just about this incident and not your bottled up dislike for Vettel.


Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with Vettel. I do have a problem with his behaviour on the track though, he is fortunate no-one has got hurt from one of a few incidents.

I completely understand that you can't bring yourself to admit he made a mistake, but he did. He is his own man but until he calms down his form is unlikely to return.

On the weekends form LeClerc will be a real handful for Vettel next season.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:57 am 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I can't believe Vettel. You'd think that the hotheadedness would stop now that the title is decided...He also botched his hotlap in Q3 today. Made mistakes on both Q3 laps.


yeah, he should probably be banned for sure.
;)


No one has argued for a ban in here. Are you condoning that kind of behaviour?

I think it's just not liking the general criticism?


Poker, you are pretty close to being right. I don't condone Vettel's action in this instance. In fact, I have been disappointed in several instances by Seb over the last couple of years. However, one thing that can be counted on is that any misjudgement, real or imagined, fact of perception, gets jumped on over and over again.

Admittedly, it happens to all the top drivers and likely always will, it just seems as the kicking while they are down (particularly Nando and Seb this year) is worse than normal. Perhaps I AM being too sensitive, for that I apologize.

Fair enough but if drivers make mistakes then people are going to bring it up, in Vettel's case he's made a lot of mistakes this year so that's why it's been a bit of Vettel this and Vettel that.

The latest incident could have been really nasty if one of those scales had hit any of the stewards, that's not something to be brushed under the carpet.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:09 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:

Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with Vettel. I do have a problem with his behaviour on the track though, he is fortunate no-one has got hurt from one of a few incidents.

I completely understand that you can't bring yourself to admit he made a mistake, but he did. He is his own man but until he calms down his form is unlikely to return.

On the weekends form LeClerc will be a real handful for Vettel next season.


Lol you do realise Vettel had a faulty sensor hence his pace, same Leclerc who was behind Ericsson, people get blinded he did a lap which with the car he had could be done and we wont hear the last of that.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:24 am 
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Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:

Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with Vettel. I do have a problem with his behaviour on the track though, he is fortunate no-one has got hurt from one of a few incidents.

I completely understand that you can't bring yourself to admit he made a mistake, but he did. He is his own man but until he calms down his form is unlikely to return.

On the weekends form LeClerc will be a real handful for Vettel next season.


Lol you do realise Vettel had a faulty sensor hence his pace, same Leclerc who was behind Ericsson, people get blinded he did a lap which with the car he had could be done and we wont hear the last of that.


Totally irrelevant Rockie, I did not comment on Vettel's race in any way so why bring that up?

Unless it was a distraction from answering the point I have now repeated. Just say it, other fanatical supporters have said they have been disappointed with Vettel this season, respect to them, (not at all meant to be patronising).

Its just as an F1 fan you have to see the whole picture, you have to respect all those around you, what Vettel did was disrespectful.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:53 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Clarky wrote:
This video is even worse and makes the leniency of Vettel's penalty worse.

Go to 3:00 and watch just how close Vettel gets not once but twice to hitting the leg of the official.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNVTOsx-NLE


This video shows exactly why this stupid and outdated rule needs to be scrapped.

I can't imagine watching football and during a counter attacker a striker is pulled off to be drugged tested randomly, whether fans won't be mad or said player won't have a hissy fit.

But F1 is so partisan this days that fans will support and justify nonsense so long as they don't like the driver.

All cars enter parc ferme once qualifying starts, there are FIA cameras in the garages and FoM cameras why must this madness be allowed to continue, can the cars not be weighed at the end of qualifying?


Valid comment but honestly Rockie it doesn't address the point that Vettel was just wrong to do it. The guy he is driving at is simply removing the cone Vettel hit.


What was the official playing at there, is it that he does not understand the urgency of the situation?

Or when he was on the scale it takes just 5s for a scale to lock in the weight and he kept on going like he could not read the weight.


He isn't part of the pit crew though is he, how does he know the status of the session it's not his job. The FIA say weigh cars randomly we will tell you which ones and here is the procedure to be safe. (Legal requirement).

But that isn't the point, no-one is saying that the test isn't badly timed or in the wrong location. The point being made is that Vettel loses it. Its like shouting at a bus driver because you are late for work.

Or is it that you cant bear to criticise the principal driver of the team you support? Vettel was wrong wasn't he?

It'd be like shouting at the bus driver if he was sluggish and doing 5mph if you want to be a bit closer to the incident.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
This video shows exactly why this stupid and outdated rule needs to be scrapped.

I can't imagine watching football and during a counter attacker a striker is pulled off to be drugged tested randomly, whether fans won't be mad or said player won't have a hissy fit.

But F1 is so partisan this days that fans will support and justify nonsense so long as they don't like the driver.

All cars enter parc ferme once qualifying starts, there are FIA cameras in the garages and FoM cameras why must this madness be allowed to continue, can the cars not be weighed at the end of qualifying?


Valid comment but honestly Rockie it doesn't address the point that Vettel was just wrong to do it. The guy he is driving at is simply removing the cone Vettel hit.


What was the official playing at there, is it that he does not understand the urgency of the situation?

Or when he was on the scale it takes just 5s for a scale to lock in the weight and he kept on going like he could not read the weight.


He isn't part of the pit crew though is he, how does he know the status of the session it's not his job. The FIA say weigh cars randomly we will tell you which ones and here is the procedure to be safe. (Legal requirement).

But that isn't the point, no-one is saying that the test isn't badly timed or in the wrong location. The point being made is that Vettel loses it. Its like shouting at a bus driver because you are late for work.

Or is it that you cant bear to criticise the principal driver of the team you support? Vettel was wrong wasn't he?

It'd be like shouting at the bus driver if he was sluggish and doing 5mph if you want to be a bit closer to the incident.

I believe the officials were initially waiting for Vettel to turn his engine off?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:54 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:

Valid comment but honestly Rockie it doesn't address the point that Vettel was just wrong to do it. The guy he is driving at is simply removing the cone Vettel hit.


What was the official playing at there, is it that he does not understand the urgency of the situation?

Or when he was on the scale it takes just 5s for a scale to lock in the weight and he kept on going like he could not read the weight.


He isn't part of the pit crew though is he, how does he know the status of the session it's not his job. The FIA say weigh cars randomly we will tell you which ones and here is the procedure to be safe. (Legal requirement).

But that isn't the point, no-one is saying that the test isn't badly timed or in the wrong location. The point being made is that Vettel loses it. Its like shouting at a bus driver because you are late for work.

Or is it that you cant bear to criticise the principal driver of the team you support? Vettel was wrong wasn't he?

It'd be like shouting at the bus driver if he was sluggish and doing 5mph if you want to be a bit closer to the incident.

I believe the officials were initially waiting for Vettel to turn his engine off?

I think that why the guy picking up the cone wasn't in any rush (at least until Vettel gave him a hint/threatened to run him over (ymmv)). He was expecting the normal procedure in which he wouldn't need to be out of the way until the car's engine was off.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:19 am 
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wolfticket wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
What was the official playing at there, is it that he does not understand the urgency of the situation?

Or when he was on the scale it takes just 5s for a scale to lock in the weight and he kept on going like he could not read the weight.


He isn't part of the pit crew though is he, how does he know the status of the session it's not his job. The FIA say weigh cars randomly we will tell you which ones and here is the procedure to be safe. (Legal requirement).

But that isn't the point, no-one is saying that the test isn't badly timed or in the wrong location. The point being made is that Vettel loses it. Its like shouting at a bus driver because you are late for work.

Or is it that you cant bear to criticise the principal driver of the team you support? Vettel was wrong wasn't he?

It'd be like shouting at the bus driver if he was sluggish and doing 5mph if you want to be a bit closer to the incident.

I believe the officials were initially waiting for Vettel to turn his engine off?

I think that why the guy picking up the cone wasn't in any rush (at least until Vettel gave him a hint/threatened to run him over (ymmv)). He was expecting the normal procedure in which he wouldn't need to be out of the way until the car's engine was off.

Yep and the cone is there to stop drivers from driving onto the weighbridge.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:14 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:

Valid comment but honestly Rockie it doesn't address the point that Vettel was just wrong to do it. The guy he is driving at is simply removing the cone Vettel hit.


What was the official playing at there, is it that he does not understand the urgency of the situation?

Or when he was on the scale it takes just 5s for a scale to lock in the weight and he kept on going like he could not read the weight.


He isn't part of the pit crew though is he, how does he know the status of the session it's not his job. The FIA say weigh cars randomly we will tell you which ones and here is the procedure to be safe. (Legal requirement).

But that isn't the point, no-one is saying that the test isn't badly timed or in the wrong location. The point being made is that Vettel loses it. Its like shouting at a bus driver because you are late for work.

Or is it that you cant bear to criticise the principal driver of the team you support? Vettel was wrong wasn't he?

It'd be like shouting at the bus driver if he was sluggish and doing 5mph if you want to be a bit closer to the incident.

I believe the officials were initially waiting for Vettel to turn his engine off?

I'm not sure about the procedure, it is something I haven't really looked into. But surely Vettel and any other driver have done it before time and again, Vettel would know that he has to switch the engine off.

Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:18 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:46 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.

Yeah, I agree he could have hit someone, I just watched the other video, I only saw the one from inside the car; from there it looks like he just drives off in a calm manner. The video from outside shows the scales shooting backwards.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.


This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.


This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.

I don't know where you are from, but in a lot of countries in the world, speeding fines are based on income for exactly this reason, particularly in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/ne ... -fine.html

For a millionaire, having to pay $100 would be a toll charge for the road they would be more than willing to pay to get there early.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.


This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.

I don't know where you are from, but in a lot of countries in the world, speeding fines are based on income for exactly this reason, particularly in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/ne ... -fine.html

For a millionaire, having to pay $100 would be a toll charge for the road they would be more than willing to pay to get there early.

Not really, as speeding would earn you a few good points and risk having your license taken from you altogether. Rich people would not speed because they can afford it, the license points are there for a reason


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
What was the official playing at there, is it that he does not understand the urgency of the situation?

Or when he was on the scale it takes just 5s for a scale to lock in the weight and he kept on going like he could not read the weight.


He isn't part of the pit crew though is he, how does he know the status of the session it's not his job. The FIA say weigh cars randomly we will tell you which ones and here is the procedure to be safe. (Legal requirement).

But that isn't the point, no-one is saying that the test isn't badly timed or in the wrong location. The point being made is that Vettel loses it. Its like shouting at a bus driver because you are late for work.

Or is it that you cant bear to criticise the principal driver of the team you support? Vettel was wrong wasn't he?

It'd be like shouting at the bus driver if he was sluggish and doing 5mph if you want to be a bit closer to the incident.

I believe the officials were initially waiting for Vettel to turn his engine off?

I'm not sure about the procedure, it is something I haven't really looked into. But surely Vettel and any other driver have done it before time and again, Vettel would know that he has to switch the engine off.

Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

I don't think any of us knew about the procedure but many of us do now, certainly Vettel knew the procedure.

Given that Vettel had not completed a lap some common sense could have been applied I think, but in respect to nobody being endangered that was not true, it was luck that none of the stewards were hit by the flying scales.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.


This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.

I think the point being made that was merely a slap on the wrists?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.


This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.

I don't know where you are from, but in a lot of countries in the world, speeding fines are based on income for exactly this reason, particularly in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/ne ... -fine.html

For a millionaire, having to pay $100 would be a toll charge for the road they would be more than willing to pay to get there early.

Not really, as speeding would earn you a few good points and risk having your license taken from you altogether. Rich people would not speed because they can afford it, the license points are there for a reason

This is true, did Vettel get points on his license?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Posts: 3235
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Unfortunate timing for the weighing call, I understand his frustration, but he did not endanger anyone really. The fine is appropriate I think, especially if there was damage in the scales (can't see this from the video frankly)

How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.


This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.

I don't know where you are from, but in a lot of countries in the world, speeding fines are based on income for exactly this reason, particularly in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/ne ... -fine.html

For a millionaire, having to pay $100 would be a toll charge for the road they would be more than willing to pay to get there early.

Not really, as speeding would earn you a few good points and risk having your license taken from you altogether. Rich people would not speed because they can afford it, the license points are there for a reason

Not all countries have a points system. Many are just flat fines.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6650
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.


This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.

I don't know where you are from, but in a lot of countries in the world, speeding fines are based on income for exactly this reason, particularly in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/ne ... -fine.html

For a millionaire, having to pay $100 would be a toll charge for the road they would be more than willing to pay to get there early.

Not really, as speeding would earn you a few good points and risk having your license taken from you altogether. Rich people would not speed because they can afford it, the license points are there for a reason

Not all countries have a points system. Many are just flat fines.

This is very true.

In Europe there are a handful only: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_system_(driving)

It is the only deterrent to keep drivers behaving, fines are not enough for some, losing your license is.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Posts: 6650
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
How did he possibly not endanger anyone? I don't know what those scales weigh, but seeing them shot backwards at what looks like quite high speed I'm confident they could and would break bones if they had hit someone. What he did was about as dangerous as knowingly driving out of your pit box with a fuel hose still attached, or your wheels not fastened.

A fine is appropriate, but the fine they actually gave him is the same as you used to get for doing donuts after a race. It's just not high enough to have any genuine effect. $25,000 for an F1 driver is like a $100 speeding ticket for ordinary people - annoying, but it's not going to change their behavior one bit.


This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.

I don't know where you are from, but in a lot of countries in the world, speeding fines are based on income for exactly this reason, particularly in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/ne ... -fine.html

For a millionaire, having to pay $100 would be a toll charge for the road they would be more than willing to pay to get there early.

Not really, as speeding would earn you a few good points and risk having your license taken from you altogether. Rich people would not speed because they can afford it, the license points are there for a reason

This is true, did Vettel get points on his license?

What do you mean? This was not a street offence. Do you mean the F1 penalty system? I do not think that it was mentioned anywhere


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28712
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
This absolute nonsense.

If Vettel is caught speeding on normal roads he pays the same fine as every other road user, his income does not come into question, or you expect multi millionaires to be fined more for doing 55 in a 30 zone than someone who drives a toyota?

FIA cannot randomly impose a fine because of the net worth of the driver involved.

I don't know where you are from, but in a lot of countries in the world, speeding fines are based on income for exactly this reason, particularly in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/ne ... -fine.html

For a millionaire, having to pay $100 would be a toll charge for the road they would be more than willing to pay to get there early.

Not really, as speeding would earn you a few good points and risk having your license taken from you altogether. Rich people would not speed because they can afford it, the license points are there for a reason

This is true, did Vettel get points on his license?

What do you mean? This was not a street offence. Do you mean the F1 penalty system? I do not think that it was mentioned anywhere

Of course what else could I have meant? :)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:52 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
I don't know where you are from, but in a lot of countries in the world, speeding fines are based on income for exactly this reason, particularly in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/ne ... -fine.html

For a millionaire, having to pay $100 would be a toll charge for the road they would be more than willing to pay to get there early.

Not really, as speeding would earn you a few good points and risk having your license taken from you altogether. Rich people would not speed because they can afford it, the license points are there for a reason

This is true, did Vettel get points on his license?

What do you mean? This was not a street offence. Do you mean the F1 penalty system? I do not think that it was mentioned anywhere

Of course what else could I have meant? :)

Haha, with all this road offence discussion I got confused!

I am not sure he did and to be fair it wasn't a sporting offence, was it?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Not really, as speeding would earn you a few good points and risk having your license taken from you altogether. Rich people would not speed because they can afford it, the license points are there for a reason

This is true, did Vettel get points on his license?

What do you mean? This was not a street offence. Do you mean the F1 penalty system? I do not think that it was mentioned anywhere

Of course what else could I have meant? :)

Haha, with all this road offence discussion I got confused!

I am not sure he did and to be fair it wasn't a sporting offence, was it?

So as a comparison Vettel is the rich guy who is quite happy to pay the fine so long as his license is not at risk.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
This is true, did Vettel get points on his license?

What do you mean? This was not a street offence. Do you mean the F1 penalty system? I do not think that it was mentioned anywhere

Of course what else could I have meant? :)

Haha, with all this road offence discussion I got confused!

I am not sure he did and to be fair it wasn't a sporting offence, was it?

But if he didn't then we're right back to the lack of deterrent. Penalty points would be one, yes, but a fine that is about 0.005% of his yearly earnings is nothing he'll even notice. To put that in perspective, that's well under $100 for the average person. For a 40,000 pound annual salary (maybe average?), that would be the equivalent of 20 pounds. Pocket change.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:28 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
This is true, did Vettel get points on his license?

What do you mean? This was not a street offence. Do you mean the F1 penalty system? I do not think that it was mentioned anywhere

Of course what else could I have meant? :)

Haha, with all this road offence discussion I got confused!

I am not sure he did and to be fair it wasn't a sporting offence, was it?

So as a comparison Vettel is the rich guy who is quite happy to pay the fine so long as his license is not at risk.

Not sure, ask the poster who made the comparison I guess


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:31 am 
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Exediron wrote:
For a 40,000 pound annual salary (maybe average?), that would be the equivalent of 20 pounds. Pocket change.


Not that it really makes much difference but I believe the average UK salary is around £27k :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:33 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
This is true, did Vettel get points on his license?

What do you mean? This was not a street offence. Do you mean the F1 penalty system? I do not think that it was mentioned anywhere

Of course what else could I have meant? :)

Haha, with all this road offence discussion I got confused!

I am not sure he did and to be fair it wasn't a sporting offence, was it?

But if he didn't then we're right back to the lack of deterrent. Penalty points would be one, yes, but a fine that is about 0.005% of his yearly earnings is nothing he'll even notice. To put that in perspective, that's well under $100 for the average person. For a 40,000 pound annual salary (maybe average?), that would be the equivalent of 20 pounds. Pocket change.

I do not know mate. Maybe that's the price of the scales that were "broken". It's not that this is happening all the time and they need a deterrent.


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