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 Post subject: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:33 pm 
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With new aerodynamic rules & some teams having new/changed lineups (Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault, Force India, Williams, Sauber, Toro Rosso), I hope the hierarchy in the WCC does change.

Tier 1:
Mercedes, Ferrari
(Hard to dethrone these 2 teams. Both teams will have strong & weak tracks throughout the season but Mercedes could have the edge).

Tier 2:
Red Bull
(With simpler aerodynamic rules being implemented, I wonder if Red Bull will lose touch with the Tier 1 teams as Red Bull's biggest strength was in their chassis & aerodynamics).

Tier 3:
Renault, Sauber, Haas, Force India
(Closest tier again. Sauber should get stronger due to increased Alfa Romeo backing. Raikkonen coming into the team would probably mean more investment & overall growth & development. Renault should be strong(er) with Ricciardo joining in. Haas could continue to grow & Force India, even though with improved financial backing, the lineup does get a little weak due to Stroll joining in but hope he gets better).

Tier 4:
McLaren, Toro Rosso, Williams
(Don't see McLaren improving just yet. Toro Rosso's completely new lineup could be their downfall. Williams will need to turn around 360 degrees as they've been so low(e)).

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:54 pm 
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While Ferrari is the only title challenger, they really aren't close to winning the championship. Mercedes allowed the championship to be this close. If they wanted ratings to tank and devalue F1 they could have won the championship two months ago. But they are great at letting the show go on for this long.

Based on what I see..

Tier 1: Mercedes
Tier 2a: Ferrari
Tier 2b: Red Bull
Tier 3: Renault
Tier 4: Sauber, Hass, Force India, Toro Rosso
Tier 5: Williams, McLaren


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Bentrovato wrote:
While Ferrari is the only title challenger, they really aren't close to winning the championship. Mercedes allowed the championship to be this close. If they wanted ratings to tank and devalue F1 they could have won the championship two months ago. But they are great at letting the show go on for this long.

Based on what I see..

Tier 1: Mercedes
Tier 2a: Ferrari
Tier 2b: Red Bull
Tier 3: Renault
Tier 4: Sauber, Hass, Force India, Toro Rosso
Tier 5: Williams, McLaren


You don't buy into the sandbagging Mercedes conspiracy theory do you? These theories tend to stem from those who wish to belittle Hamilton's acheivement.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:46 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
While Ferrari is the only title challenger, they really aren't close to winning the championship. Mercedes allowed the championship to be this close. If they wanted ratings to tank and devalue F1 they could have won the championship two months ago. But they are great at letting the show go on for this long.

Based on what I see..

Tier 1: Mercedes
Tier 2a: Ferrari
Tier 2b: Red Bull
Tier 3: Renault
Tier 4: Sauber, Hass, Force India, Toro Rosso
Tier 5: Williams, McLaren


You don't buy into the sandbagging Mercedes conspiracy theory do you? These theories tend to stem from those who wish to belittle Hamilton's acheivement.


I definitely don't belittle Hamilton's achievement. Although he had the best machinery at his disposal (really hard to disagree with that but go ahead if you must), Hamilton also displayed supreme mastery this season, I thought he was brilliant. The F1 I watch, shows Mercedes as a completely dominant package. When it was time to put the championship away, they dialed it in and blew away Ferrari. If you want to call it sand bagging be my guest. All I'm saying is I did not see a Ferrari that was capable of beating Mercedes this year.

Since you brought up sand bagging. You do realize in Formula 1 most teams "sandbag" right? They do it from day 1 in testing right through FP2 in Abu Dhabi. It's part of the game. To label it as a conspiracy theory demonstrates a lack of understanding. I personally do not know if Mercedes did sand bag. IF they had even more performance, they sand bagged. My opinion from being at multiple races from the past few seasons - the Merc package is far superior than others. It's not that close. That's all I'm saying. I leave the sand bagging to you!


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Posts: 321
Bentrovato wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
While Ferrari is the only title challenger, they really aren't close to winning the championship. Mercedes allowed the championship to be this close. If they wanted ratings to tank and devalue F1 they could have won the championship two months ago. But they are great at letting the show go on for this long.

Based on what I see..

Tier 1: Mercedes
Tier 2a: Ferrari
Tier 2b: Red Bull
Tier 3: Renault
Tier 4: Sauber, Hass, Force India, Toro Rosso
Tier 5: Williams, McLaren


You don't buy into the sandbagging Mercedes conspiracy theory do you? These theories tend to stem from those who wish to belittle Hamilton's acheivement.


I definitely don't belittle Hamilton's achievement. Although he had the best machinery at his disposal (really hard to disagree with that but go ahead if you must), Hamilton also displayed supreme mastery this season, I thought he was brilliant. The F1 I watch, shows Mercedes as a completely dominant package. When it was time to put the championship away, they dialed it in and blew away Ferrari. If you want to call it sand bagging be my guest. All I'm saying is I did not see a Ferrari that was capable of beating Mercedes this year.

Since you brought up sand bagging. You do realize in Formula 1 most teams "sandbag" right? They do it from day 1 in testing right through FP2 in Abu Dhabi. It's part of the game. To label it as a conspiracy theory demonstrates a lack of understanding. I personally do not know if Mercedes did sand bag. IF they had even more performance, they sand bagged. My opinion from being at multiple races from the past few seasons - the Merc package is far superior than others. It's not that close. That's all I'm saying. I leave the sand bagging to you!


I know what sandbagging is so please save the patronizing tone for someone else. Your original message heavily implied that Mercedes were holding back performance for the good of tv ratings and chose when to wrap up the title. Essentially that they engineered a title race. I'm simply calling that utter tin hat nonsense.

If that was your point there is no way that Mercedes would deliberately reduce their performance. We've just seen Toto Wolff too upset to congratulate his driver on the radio on winning a fifth title because he was so gutted at the team performance.

If Merc were holding back performance for the good of the sport , then the Sochi team order makes no sense at all. That was bad publicity for the sport and totally avoidable if Mercedes could have just pulled extra performance out at will.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:05 pm 
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1. Ferrari
2. Mercedes
3. Red Bull
4. Renault
5. Force India
6. Haas
7. Sauber
8. McLaren
9. Toro Rosso
10. Williams


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:38 am 
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Posts: 1501
UnlikeUday wrote:
With new aerodynamic rules & some teams having new/changed lineups (Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault, Force India, Williams, Sauber, Toro Rosso), I hope the hierarchy in the WCC does change.

Tier 1:
Mercedes, Ferrari
(Hard to dethrone these 2 teams. Both teams will have strong & weak tracks throughout the season but Mercedes could have the edge).

Tier 2:
Red Bull
(With simpler aerodynamic rules being implemented, I wonder if Red Bull will lose touch with the Tier 1 teams as Red Bull's biggest strength was in their chassis & aerodynamics).

Tier 3:
Renault, Sauber, Haas, Force India
(Closest tier again. Sauber should get stronger due to increased Alfa Romeo backing. Raikkonen coming into the team would probably mean more investment & overall growth & development. Renault should be strong(er) with Ricciardo joining in. Haas could continue to grow & Force India, even though with improved financial backing, the lineup does get a little weak due to Stroll joining in but hope he gets better).

Tier 4:
McLaren, Toro Rosso, Williams
(Don't see McLaren improving just yet. Toro Rosso's completely new lineup could be their downfall. Williams will need to turn around 360 degrees as they've been so low(e)).

It hasn't been confirmed yet that hartly is leaving. And the team said they won't decide until the final race. And Kvyat isn't exactly completely new is he? The team must have had some hope in him given the team manager said he would never return when he got kicked out last year.

Basicaly, there i a chance it could be a driver with nearly 4 seasons experience and one who was there last year. I think it is unlikely that Hartly will be, but it is certainly possible.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:38 am 
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Location: Mumbai, India
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
With new aerodynamic rules & some teams having new/changed lineups (Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault, Force India, Williams, Sauber, Toro Rosso), I hope the hierarchy in the WCC does change.

Tier 1:
Mercedes, Ferrari
(Hard to dethrone these 2 teams. Both teams will have strong & weak tracks throughout the season but Mercedes could have the edge).

Tier 2:
Red Bull
(With simpler aerodynamic rules being implemented, I wonder if Red Bull will lose touch with the Tier 1 teams as Red Bull's biggest strength was in their chassis & aerodynamics).

Tier 3:
Renault, Sauber, Haas, Force India
(Closest tier again. Sauber should get stronger due to increased Alfa Romeo backing. Raikkonen coming into the team would probably mean more investment & overall growth & development. Renault should be strong(er) with Ricciardo joining in. Haas could continue to grow & Force India, even though with improved financial backing, the lineup does get a little weak due to Stroll joining in but hope he gets better).

Tier 4:
McLaren, Toro Rosso, Williams
(Don't see McLaren improving just yet. Toro Rosso's completely new lineup could be their downfall. Williams will need to turn around 360 degrees as they've been so low(e)).

It hasn't been confirmed yet that hartly is leaving. And the team said they won't decide until the final race. And Kvyat isn't exactly completely new is he? The team must have had some hope in him given the team manager said he would never return when he got kicked out last year.

Basicaly, there i a chance it could be a driver with nearly 4 seasons experience and one who was there last year. I think it is unlikely that Hartly will be, but it is certainly possible.


I meant New by not continuing the same river lineup. Kvyat was on the sideline & as per Bild, Hartley has been informed by Helmut Marko in Mexico that he won't be retained for 2019.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/hartley-told-of-toro-rosso-axe-report/

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Posts: 5557
Bentrovato wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
While Ferrari is the only title challenger, they really aren't close to winning the championship. Mercedes allowed the championship to be this close. If they wanted ratings to tank and devalue F1 they could have won the championship two months ago. But they are great at letting the show go on for this long.

Based on what I see..

Tier 1: Mercedes
Tier 2a: Ferrari
Tier 2b: Red Bull
Tier 3: Renault
Tier 4: Sauber, Hass, Force India, Toro Rosso
Tier 5: Williams, McLaren


You don't buy into the sandbagging Mercedes conspiracy theory do you? These theories tend to stem from those who wish to belittle Hamilton's acheivement.


I definitely don't belittle Hamilton's achievement. Although he had the best machinery at his disposal (really hard to disagree with that but go ahead if you must), Hamilton also displayed supreme mastery this season, I thought he was brilliant. The F1 I watch, shows Mercedes as a completely dominant package. When it was time to put the championship away, they dialed it in and blew away Ferrari. If you want to call it sand bagging be my guest. All I'm saying is I did not see a Ferrari that was capable of beating Mercedes this year.

Since you brought up sand bagging. You do realize in Formula 1 most teams "sandbag" right? They do it from day 1 in testing right through FP2 in Abu Dhabi. It's part of the game. To label it as a conspiracy theory demonstrates a lack of understanding. I personally do not know if Mercedes did sand bag. IF they had even more performance, they sand bagged. My opinion from being at multiple races from the past few seasons - the Merc package is far superior than others. It's not that close. That's all I'm saying. I leave the sand bagging to you!

I had to read this a couple of times to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding you. You're out to lunch here it seems. The consensus this season is that Ferrari have had the stronger machinery. Vettel, in particular has had bullet-proof reliability and the Ferrari has been the faster car more often than not. So your whole perspective seems to be way off (or perhaps you've been sent forward through time from 2016?).


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Posts: 986
sandman1347 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
While Ferrari is the only title challenger, they really aren't close to winning the championship. Mercedes allowed the championship to be this close. If they wanted ratings to tank and devalue F1 they could have won the championship two months ago. But they are great at letting the show go on for this long.

Based on what I see..

Tier 1: Mercedes
Tier 2a: Ferrari
Tier 2b: Red Bull
Tier 3: Renault
Tier 4: Sauber, Hass, Force India, Toro Rosso
Tier 5: Williams, McLaren


You don't buy into the sandbagging Mercedes conspiracy theory do you? These theories tend to stem from those who wish to belittle Hamilton's acheivement.


I definitely don't belittle Hamilton's achievement. Although he had the best machinery at his disposal (really hard to disagree with that but go ahead if you must), Hamilton also displayed supreme mastery this season, I thought he was brilliant. The F1 I watch, shows Mercedes as a completely dominant package. When it was time to put the championship away, they dialed it in and blew away Ferrari. If you want to call it sand bagging be my guest. All I'm saying is I did not see a Ferrari that was capable of beating Mercedes this year.

Since you brought up sand bagging. You do realize in Formula 1 most teams "sandbag" right? They do it from day 1 in testing right through FP2 in Abu Dhabi. It's part of the game. To label it as a conspiracy theory demonstrates a lack of understanding. I personally do not know if Mercedes did sand bag. IF they had even more performance, they sand bagged. My opinion from being at multiple races from the past few seasons - the Merc package is far superior than others. It's not that close. That's all I'm saying. I leave the sand bagging to you!

I had to read this a couple of times to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding you. You're out to lunch here it seems. The consensus this season is that Ferrari have had the stronger machinery. Vettel, in particular has had bullet-proof reliability and the Ferrari has been the faster car more often than not. So your whole perspective seems to be way off (or perhaps you've been sent forward through time from 2016?).


Why answer in a polite way when someone disagrees with your opinion when you can be rude?


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Posts: 5557
AnRs wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
While Ferrari is the only title challenger, they really aren't close to winning the championship. Mercedes allowed the championship to be this close. If they wanted ratings to tank and devalue F1 they could have won the championship two months ago. But they are great at letting the show go on for this long.

Based on what I see..

Tier 1: Mercedes
Tier 2a: Ferrari
Tier 2b: Red Bull
Tier 3: Renault
Tier 4: Sauber, Hass, Force India, Toro Rosso
Tier 5: Williams, McLaren


You don't buy into the sandbagging Mercedes conspiracy theory do you? These theories tend to stem from those who wish to belittle Hamilton's acheivement.


I definitely don't belittle Hamilton's achievement. Although he had the best machinery at his disposal (really hard to disagree with that but go ahead if you must), Hamilton also displayed supreme mastery this season, I thought he was brilliant. The F1 I watch, shows Mercedes as a completely dominant package. When it was time to put the championship away, they dialed it in and blew away Ferrari. If you want to call it sand bagging be my guest. All I'm saying is I did not see a Ferrari that was capable of beating Mercedes this year.

Since you brought up sand bagging. You do realize in Formula 1 most teams "sandbag" right? They do it from day 1 in testing right through FP2 in Abu Dhabi. It's part of the game. To label it as a conspiracy theory demonstrates a lack of understanding. I personally do not know if Mercedes did sand bag. IF they had even more performance, they sand bagged. My opinion from being at multiple races from the past few seasons - the Merc package is far superior than others. It's not that close. That's all I'm saying. I leave the sand bagging to you!

I had to read this a couple of times to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding you. You're out to lunch here it seems. The consensus this season is that Ferrari have had the stronger machinery. Vettel, in particular has had bullet-proof reliability and the Ferrari has been the faster car more often than not. So your whole perspective seems to be way off (or perhaps you've been sent forward through time from 2016?).


Why answer in a polite way when someone disagrees with your opinion when you can be rude?

You are very sensitive these days huh?


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:03 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
I definitely don't belittle Hamilton's achievement. Although he had the best machinery at his disposal (really hard to disagree with that but go ahead if you must), Hamilton also displayed supreme mastery this season, I thought he was brilliant. The F1 I watch, shows Mercedes as a completely dominant package. When it was time to put the championship away, they dialed it in and blew away Ferrari. If you want to call it sand bagging be my guest. All I'm saying is I did not see a Ferrari that was capable of beating Mercedes this year.

I had to read this a couple of times to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding you. You're out to lunch here it seems. The consensus this season is that Ferrari have had the stronger machinery. Vettel, in particular has had bullet-proof reliability and the Ferrari has been the faster car more often than not. So your whole perspective seems to be way off (or perhaps you've been sent forward through time from 2016?).

Although I wouldn't have put it quite like that, I do think it's pretty easy to disagree with the assertion that Hamilton had the best machinery this season.

Or, well, to put it a different way, I can't agree that Hamilton had a machinery advantage over the balance of the season. I can see an interpretation where the two cars are considered equal, although I would personally consider the Ferrari to have been slightly better overall this year.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:51 am 
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One of Force India's sponsor's (Acronis) head has said with the team getting financial backing, the team's budget is going to triple in 2019. This is a welcome news who've always punched above their weight. With a bigger budget, they should develop a great car.
http://www.grandprix.com/news/sponsor-says-force-india-budget-to-triple.html

Renault, Haas & Sauber are also expected to be getting stronger next year though.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:34 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
One of Force India's sponsor's (Acronis) head has said with the team getting financial backing, the team's budget is going to triple in 2019. This is a welcome news who've always punched above their weight. With a bigger budget, they should develop a great car.
http://www.grandprix.com/news/sponsor-says-force-india-budget-to-triple.html

Renault, Haas & Sauber are also expected to be getting stronger next year though.


Lance Stroll.... 2020 world champion.

You read it here 1st people. :nod: :nod:

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:22 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
One of Force India's sponsor's (Acronis) head has said with the team getting financial backing, the team's budget is going to triple in 2019. This is a welcome news who've always punched above their weight. With a bigger budget, they should develop a great car.
http://www.grandprix.com/news/sponsor-says-force-india-budget-to-triple.html

Renault, Haas & Sauber are also expected to be getting stronger next year though.


Lance Stroll.... 2020 world champion.

You read it here 1st people. :nod: :nod:

If the car is that good, it'd be Perez... or nobody, if they tried to favor Lance! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:37 pm 
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I expect the new rules to help Redbull actually. If you look at the redbull car it is a simpler design than the merc or Ferrari. Imo they are getting most of their performance from their floor area and their suspension geometry. They always are able to run less wing than their rivals. With the new regs simplifying front wings, that is only going to help them. Their biggest worry will be the Honda engine imo. If they get that sorted they will be the team to beat.

I expect Merc to regress even more. Their power unit advantage has already been nullified by Ferrari. I expect the others to close the gap at the very least.

Ferrari should be even stronger too next year as they have followed up the 2017 car with an even better package this year. I see no reason why their upward trend wouldn’t continue and I feel they might have a truly dominant car by next year.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:01 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
I expect the new rules to help Redbull actually. If you look at the redbull car it is a simpler design than the merc or Ferrari. Imo they are getting most of their performance from their floor area and their suspension geometry. They always are able to run less wing than their rivals. With the new regs simplifying front wings, that is only going to help them. Their biggest worry will be the Honda engine imo. If they get that sorted they will be the team to beat.

I expect Merc to regress even more. Their power unit advantage has already been nullified by Ferrari. I expect the others to close the gap at the very least.

Ferrari should be even stronger too next year as they have followed up the 2017 car with an even better package this year. I see no reason why their upward trend wouldn’t continue and I feel they might have a truly dominant car by next year.

It is complicated though. Mercedes seem to have generally had a better handle on the trade-offs in power/aero right from the start of this era. Ferrari used to be more competitive on the slower/high downforce tracks but ultimately had to relinquish some of that competitiveness to compete over the whole season. Are Red Bull able to retain the edge at those circuits and still close the gap to reach a level where they can compete on enough circuits, including the power tracks, over the course of a whole season? I guess time will tell as they edge closer to the front two teams.

Also Mercedes pushed the 2019 aero changes and being in pole position coming into the last few races may have put them in a position where they can focus more on 2019. Looks like Tyres will be closer to the thinner tread version used at Silverstone/France/Spain for next season too, so with increasing importance of tyre management this will be another factor.

Plenty to look forward to for the next season though. If they can improve the racing, and keep focusing on small steps to allow more track action year on year then it can only be a good thing. Perhaps we can even look forward to the removal of DRS in time, but feel that realistically that shouldn't come until 2022/2023. If they have any sense they will just shorten/remove the DRS zones at certain races rather than just do away with it all together.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:04 pm 
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I'll guess at...

1. Ferrari
2. Mercedes
3. Red Bull
4. Renault
5. McLaren
6. Force India (Or Racing Point)
7. Sauber
8. Haas
9. STR
10. Williams

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Does anyone know which of the lower teams have made efforts to align themselves closer to the top 3/4 either, like Haas, and purchase more parts? I know the top teams have massive budgets anyway, but the extra investment and even relationships/data shared can only help a team like Ferrari to develop that bit quicker too. And of course the benefits to the team purchasing the parts are obvious when you see how quickly Haas became competitive in the midfield.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:35 pm 
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I'll hope for:

McLaren/Williams
Mercedes/Sauber (go Kimi!)
Torro Rosso
Renault
Red Bull/Ferrari
Force India (Or Racing Point)/Haas

All highly unlikely, but there you go.

Edit - with Force India/Haas being as close to the top as the best of them is at any race now or closer


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:03 am 
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WHoff78 wrote:
Does anyone know which of the lower teams have made efforts to align themselves closer to the top 3/4 either, like Haas, and purchase more parts? I know the top teams have massive budgets anyway, but the extra investment and even relationships/data shared can only help a team like Ferrari to develop that bit quicker too. And of course the benefits to the team purchasing the parts are obvious when you see how quickly Haas became competitive in the midfield.


STR will get the Red Bull rear end apparently. They've been due it before, usually the previous years rear end but because of all the engine switches they never got it but allegedly they'll get the exact same as what Red Bull have been working on for the switch to Honda next year. This was from Horner himself, I'll try to find the link, I'm sure it was on F1addict or whatever its called now.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:26 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Does anyone know which of the lower teams have made efforts to align themselves closer to the top 3/4 either, like Haas, and purchase more parts? I know the top teams have massive budgets anyway, but the extra investment and even relationships/data shared can only help a team like Ferrari to develop that bit quicker too. And of course the benefits to the team purchasing the parts are obvious when you see how quickly Haas became competitive in the midfield.


STR will get the Red Bull rear end apparently. They've been due it before, usually the previous years rear end but because of all the engine switches they never got it but allegedly they'll get the exact same as what Red Bull have been working on for the switch to Honda next year. This was from Horner himself, I'll try to find the link, I'm sure it was on F1addict or whatever its called now.


I had read this as well so can confirm this story.

With STR having even a better alliance with Red Bull in 2019, the fight to be 'Best of the Rest' behind the top 3 will be even fierce. Sauber will be quite strong next year. Haas should be improving n their current form & with Force India's budget set to get tripled, they may also be in the fight.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:56 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Does anyone know which of the lower teams have made efforts to align themselves closer to the top 3/4 either, like Haas, and purchase more parts? I know the top teams have massive budgets anyway, but the extra investment and even relationships/data shared can only help a team like Ferrari to develop that bit quicker too. And of course the benefits to the team purchasing the parts are obvious when you see how quickly Haas became competitive in the midfield.


STR will get the Red Bull rear end apparently. They've been due it before, usually the previous years rear end but because of all the engine switches they never got it but allegedly they'll get the exact same as what Red Bull have been working on for the switch to Honda next year. This was from Horner himself, I'll try to find the link, I'm sure it was on F1addict or whatever its called now.


I had read this as well so can confirm this story.

With STR having even a better alliance with Red Bull in 2019, the fight to be 'Best of the Rest' behind the top 3 will be even fierce. Sauber will be quite strong next year. Haas should be improving n their current form & with Force India's budget set to get tripled, they may also be in the fight.


:thumbup:

Found it, it's on RaceFans.

Horner wrote:
“Toro Rosso will use a complete Red Bull Technology rear end next year,” he confirms. “Having a common power supplier only makes that easier.”


https://www.racefans.net/2018/07/16/why ... erview-f1/

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:38 pm 
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^ That's good. When I saw the words Bull and Rear End in the same sentence...

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Nick Chester from Renault has said the 2019 car is making good progress. Question is whether Renault will be able to overhaul Red Bull (with Honda) for 3rd best team.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-2019-car-strong-progress/3215031/

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Mercedes, Ferrari
Red Bull, but much closer, with reliability being their main problem. On pace they will often be faster than either Merc/Ferr

Renault, mainly based on the strength of their driver line-up

Force India, Haas

Sauber, Toro Rosso, McLaren

Williams


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:12 am 
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Invade wrote:
Mercedes, Ferrari
Red Bull, but much closer, with reliability being their main problem. On pace they will often be faster than either Merc/Ferr

Renault, mainly based on the strength of their driver line-up

Force India, Haas

Sauber, Toro Rosso, McLaren

Williams


I'm sure Sauber will be higher. If Raikkonen's going there, am sure Alfa Romeo will be investing much more in the 2019 car. Already they've made so much progress this year. Force India's investment should be tripling as per 1 of their sponsor's head & with the efficient work their staff did on a limited budget, wonder how good they would get with a much bigger budget.

2019 will be interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:23 am 
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I'll try to be a little less conservative:

Red Bull (Honda)
Merc/Ferrari (will be as close as this year)

Force India (triple budget, best pound for pound team in the business for ages)
Sauber (will continue to grow)
Haas/Toro Rosso (solid midfield, both with a smart business model)
Williams (will get on top of their problems, at least partially and signed Russell, who is a future star)
Renault (will disappoint immensely)
McLaren (have seen no signs they'll improve)


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:10 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:
I'll try to be a little less conservative:

Red Bull (Honda)
Merc/Ferrari (will be as close as this year)

Force India (triple budget, best pound for pound team in the business for ages)
Sauber (will continue to grow)
Haas/Toro Rosso (solid midfield, both with a smart business model)
Williams (will get on top of their problems, at least partially and signed Russell, who is a future star)
Renault (will disappoint immensely)
McLaren (have seen no signs they'll improve)

Some bold calls in there. In particular, I see almost no chance that Renault will be worse than Williams. I'll be quite impressed if these turn out to be true!

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Team Hierarchy!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:04 pm 
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I've got:
Ferrari- The last few seasons show they have been getting closer to being top dogs. The Leclerc-Vettel battle could compromise the drivers titke though.

Mercedes- Competitive but a bit behind. Hamilton will be a title contender, Bottas will be able to he used to compromise the Ferrari strategy at times.

Red Bull- All things considered I would expect them to be a bit closer to those above. Max will be a title contender but on most tracks the big two will hold sway.

Renault- Improved driver line-up, they will take things very seriously this season and have strong resources and Daniel will get some strong results

Sauber- They have ambition to improve, and it will start in 2019. Kimi will have to bring home the majority of the points but theg wouldn't have signed him if tgere wasn't a plan.

Force India/Racing point- They have big investment coming but that will take a while to come to fruition. The financial upheaval of earlier in the season will have left them with a bit of catching up to do. Lance Stroll will not be able to deliver as often as Perez will or Ocon did.

Haas- I see them taking a backwards step. They have talented drivers but the team at times has bitten the hand that feeds.

Torro Rosso- They'll benefit in patches from Honda's commitment to finding more power. But they will also continue to be used as guinea pigs to assist Honda and particularly Red Bull. The driver lineup could go either way.

Mclaren- No Fernando to drag the car to olaces it shouldn't be. They have fingers in other pies and haven't shown they can make a success of things in F1 while all that is going on. They may well write off the next few seasons.

Williams- More misery to follow IMO. It will.be better than this season in terms of the points tally, but I cannot see anything other than last place.


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