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How will Vettel/Leclerc Compare
Vettel will win by a mile 22%  22%  [ 14 ]
Vettel will win but it will be close 43%  43%  [ 28 ]
Leclerc will win but it will be close 31%  31%  [ 20 ]
Leclerc will win by a mile 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 65
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 Post subject: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Okay let's take bets! The most intriguing new teammate comparison for next season is undoubtedly 4-time WDC Sebastian Vettel against the highly touted youngster Charles Leclerc. This is your chance to be able to say "I called it!" next year. How do you think this matchup will play out in 2019? Please vote and add a comment to explain.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:32 pm 
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I have gone for Vettel will win but it will be close.

I expect that Vettel will start the season with an advantage over Leclerc whilst Leclerc settles into Ferrari. As the season goes on Leclerc's performance will become closer (and perhaps ahead of) Vettel's. Leclerc will claw points back in the second of the season. If Leclerc is as good as many people think he is, myself included, then I expect him to be on Vettel's level by the end of the season.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Leclerc atleast in 1 field is stronger & that's mental strength. We all saw how Vettel has lost his nerves when in a tight situation whereas Leclerc after having lost his father, returned to racing real soon & even won at Baku.

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Gone for Vettel - close, I rate Leclerc highly and I hope I'm right as I see him as the biggest challenger to Max once Vettel/Hamilton retire. Possibly Ricciardo too if Renault get their act together.

In fact have a feeling that Max is going to be better than Hamilton and Vettel, and may already be as quick/quicker, so I hope Leclerc is better than Vettel in the long run, I doubt he will beat him next year though even if that were to be the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Vettel will win. Leclerc will take a little time to get up-to-speed and that will mean Seb is far enough ahead that Ferrari will continue to treat him as their #1 driver, reducing Charles to playing a supporting role for a decent chunk of the season. I think he'll end up with roughly 70-75% of Seb's points, similar to what Kimi has now, although I'm going to stick my neck out and say Charles will win a race in 2019.

Not sure if that really falls into either the 'close' or 'by a mile' categories...

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:08 pm 
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I would genuinely be surprised to see Charles beat Vettel in the points in his first year with the team. I think Vettel will be wide awake next year. he will have something to prove after a pretty poor outing in 2018 and he will have his guard up about his new young teammate. Charles will have to acclimate to the new team and he is a lot younger and less experienced than Vettel.

If Ferrari are competitive like they have been these last two years, I expect Charles to win his first race and to set his first pole position in 2019. He might take a few of each actually. I expect that qualifying will be the area where he will be most competitive with Vettel. His qualifying record in the junior categories as well as against Marcus this year has been outstanding and this will pose a real threat to Sebastian.

I think the early part of the season will be crucial. If Vettel has a strong start and is well in front of Charles in the points during the first half of the year, you can expect Charles to have to play the #2 role for the rest of the season. If Charles can hold his own and win races early, all bets are off. They won't hold him back if he is actually winning on merit. The challenge is that Hamilton will probably not have much of a threat from his teammate and will not lose many points to Bottas. If next year is a two-team title fight like these last two years, Ferrari will not be able to afford an internal battle if they want to take the championship.

I will go out on a limb though and suggest that, if Ferrari are not competitive, Charles will have a much stronger chance of winning the matchup. He will likely improve as the season progresses and I have seen enough to make me believe that his ceiling is probably at least as high as Vettel's. I know that's saying a lot but I really believe that. In fact, I have Charles winning in 2020 no matter what.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:27 pm 
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I honestly believe Leclerc will beat Vettel and quite substantially. I don't have proof or anything, but I truly feel that way. Guess we'll see. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Vettel will win.
Leclerc will be closer than Räikkönen, at least by the end of the season.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Answer: Vettel should easily win.

Explanation: Leclerc is green and raw.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Vettel to beat leclerc by 25/30 points. Once Leclerc gets a win I can see him being right up there with Vettel. I think that'll happen after mid season though.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:52 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Leclerc atleast in 1 field is stronger & that's mental strength. We all saw how Vettel has lost his nerves when in a tight situation whereas Leclerc after having lost his father, returned to racing real soon & even won at Baku.

Sorry but that's one helluva loaded statement right there. Leclerc has yet to be in a pressure cooker situation fighting wheel to wheel with the very best so until he does, we don't really know how strong he is mentally.

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Vettel ahead, slightly. Mainly due to his advantage at the beginning of the season as Charles takes some time adjusting to a new team and new car.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Vettel will win easily. Charles has done few good races but I don't think Ericisson is a good benchmark. He will probably score few podiums though

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:49 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
I honestly believe Leclerc will beat Vettel and quite substantially. I don't have proof or anything, but I truly feel that way. Guess we'll see. :)

Now that's a bold prediction!


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:15 pm 
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I have similar thoughts to the match up that I had in 2014 with Ricciardo, will cause problems in qualifying but not so much in the races or when it's wet.

I got 2014 wrong but then again that might have just been an outlier and I have a feeling it might have been so I will stick with my original feeling but Leclerc will improve and over the season be better than Kimi.

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:05 pm 
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I think Vettel will have the advantage for the first few races due to his superior experience in F1 and at Ferrari. He will use that early advantage to lobby for number 1 status as long as Leclerc is behind him in the points. And as the season unfolds Leclerc will have to play a supporting role and he will not mind. It will be interesting to see what happens though when Leclerc outqualifies him, and I have little doubt this will happen more often than Seb likes. So I voted Vettel will win by a mile. 2020 will probably be a more fair fight, and Leclerc might win that one. Regardless, this will be very interesting to follow.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:19 pm 
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I think a lot of it depends on the relative strength of the Ferrari and the Mercedes (and possibly the Red Bull). Ferrari won't be about to make the same mistake of not having a clear #1 driver if there is a close fight between the manufacturers and in that scenario even qualifying may be tainted.

Good to think we might have a decent intra team battle the likes of which we haven't seen near the top since Lewis/Nico in 2016 though.

Make or break for Sebastian. Another average to poor year and it could well be his last.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:30 pm 
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I'm going to go for...

Leclerc wins the qualifying battle, and is slightly ahead on points. I really feel Leclerc is the real deal, he's going to have the full support of Ferrari, and I see Seb as vulnerable.

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:54 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
I'm going to go for...

Leclerc wins the qualifying battle, and is slightly ahead on points. I really feel Leclerc is the real deal, he's going to have the full support of Ferrari, and I see Seb as vulnerable.


Well I hope you're right as I'm already a pretty hardcore Leclerc fan. I think it will be a year too early though. He'll sound off the real warning shots in the second half of the season I think. Unlike Kimi, he'll probably show the speed for race wins.

I think he's the real deal as such that I expect him even at this early stage of his career to end up winning WDCs, which I'd say is a bold call this early on when we don't know much about him. Perhaps I rate Vettel more highly though and not as someone who can be immediately knocked off his perch at Ferrari, which will be a ground he'll protect fiercely. 2020 is more the year I'm looking for Leclerc to equal or even better Vettel.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:04 am 
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Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I'm going to go for...

Leclerc wins the qualifying battle, and is slightly ahead on points. I really feel Leclerc is the real deal, he's going to have the full support of Ferrari, and I see Seb as vulnerable.


Well I hope you're right as I'm already a pretty hardcore Leclerc fan. I think it will be a year too early though. He'll sound off the real warning shots in the second half of the season I think. Unlike Kimi, he'll probably show the speed for race wins.

I think he's the real deal as such that I expect him even at this early stage of his career to end up winning WDCs, which I'd say is a bold call this early on when we don't know much about him. Perhaps I rate Vettel more highly though and not as someone who can be immediately knocked off his perch at Ferrari, which will be a ground he'll protect fiercely. 2020 is more the year I'm looking for Leclerc to equal or even better Vettel.

Exediron might be on to something though. The thing is; if you think Leclerc will be better than Vettel, then he'll probably be better than him right away. It won't take a year for that to show. Think of Daniel in 2014 or Hamilton in 2007. If he's really got it, he won't need a year to get up to speed. He's had his rookie year now and he will be ready from the off most likely. I'm leaning towards predicting a Leclerc victory myself now.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:05 am 
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Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I'm going to go for...

Leclerc wins the qualifying battle, and is slightly ahead on points. I really feel Leclerc is the real deal, he's going to have the full support of Ferrari, and I see Seb as vulnerable.

Well I hope you're right as I'm already a pretty hardcore Leclerc fan. I think it will be a year too early though. He'll sound off the real warning shots in the second half of the season I think. Unlike Kimi, he'll probably show the speed for race wins.

I think he's the real deal as such that I expect him even at this early stage of his career to end up winning WDCs, which I'd say is a bold call this early on when we don't know much about him. Perhaps I rate Vettel more highly though and not as someone who can be immediately knocked off his perch at Ferrari, which will be a ground he'll protect fiercely. 2020 is more the year I'm looking for Leclerc to equal or even better Vettel.

That's certainly a more conservative and potentially more likely outcome. But if Leclerc is as good as Verstappen - and I believe he is - and if Vettel is only as good as Ricciardo - which I also believe - then there's every reason to think that Leclerc in his second season can hand Vettel a narrow defeat.

Whatever happens, it should be the teammate battle to watch in 2019! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:41 am 
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I'd put my metaphorical money on Vettel. I'd guess that if Vettel were to get 6 poles, Leclerc would get 1 - around that ratio. For races, if Vettel won 4, Leclerc would win 1 or a similar ratio. I'd expect Vettel to outscore him by a margin but not an unreasonable margin - something like 1.5-2 points to Vettel for every point Leclerc scores. It won't be a Hamilton-Kovi situation but it also won't be as close as Hamilton-Rosberg tended to be. So I expect Vettel to beat his teammate but Leclerc will show promise.

2020 could be especially interesting though.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:06 am 
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Voted Vettel by a hair. Should be closer than Vettel - Raikkonen. Charles will probably challenge Seb a bit more in quali and certainly a lot more on track. Kimi always seemed content to follow Seb around on track without challenging him. Charles has something to prove. Still Seb will hold the edge in 2019. 2020 is a toss up in my mind.

Charles will probably take team orders without the Kimi-isms on the radio which is a shame.

Who can forget when Jock Clear instructed Raikkonen in Germany:

Clear: “Kimi, this is Jock. You’re aware we need to look after tyres. Both cars need to look after tyres and you two are on different strategies. We’d like you not to hold up Seb. Thank you.”
Raikkonen: “I’m sorry but can you be direct? What do you want?”
Clear: “Losing as little time as possible where you can, obviously, but Seb is capable of going quicker. He’s hurting his tyres and you are as well. We need to look after them.”
Raikkonen: “So you want me to… let him go? Please. Just tell me.”

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:36 am 
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This reminds me of the "Ricciardo vs Vettel" poll ahead of 2014... and we saw how that turned out.

Ricciardo wasn't even rated as highly as Leclerc is now.

I think we'll see a changing of the guard at Ferrari.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:40 am 
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It will be difficult for Leclerc if he starts of in Sebs back pocket. If he's as quick as I suspect he is then he'll be capable of beating Vettel in a fair few races right away and mounting his own challenge for the title assuming the car is good enough.

For drivers in leading teams, it is difficult to turn it around if you start off as a clearly defined number 2 driver. Massa in 2008 is probably the only example of it in the last decade


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:28 am 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
It will be difficult for Leclerc if he starts of in Sebs back pocket. If he's as quick as I suspect he is then he'll be capable of beating Vettel in a fair few races right away and mounting his own challenge for the title assuming the car is good enough.

For drivers in leading teams, it is difficult to turn it around if you start off as a clearly defined number 2 driver. Massa in 2008 is probably the only example of it in the last decade

I think Massa is the only example because it's quite rare for a team to get it so wrong and think they have a clear #1 driver when they really don't. Like Leclerc says in the recent F1 podcast, no team picks their #2 driver before they know who's quickest. Ferrari thought Kimi was going to be a lot quicker than Massa, but as soon as that didn't turn out to be the case they started adapting to the situation.

Ferrari wouldn't be bringing in a driver like Leclerc - widely hailed as their next superstar, a driver who's won everything he's ever competed in in only a single season - to be a number two. If he can't match Vettel he will become one, but I have absolute confidence that Ferrari will give him a chance. Only they know if they're actually hoping he can beat Vettel.

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:51 am 
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Leclerc is something of an unknown quantity under pressure, but I’m expecting Vettel to crumble, just like he did against Ricciardo. I really like Seb, especially in terms of personality, but I don’t think he’s one of the all time greats.

Yes he’s a four times champion but he had the fastest car by some margin for most of his winning period at Red Bull. Much of the battle was won by being quicker than Mark Webber, whom I also really like, but yeah, not an all time great either.

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:40 am 
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I've gone for Vettel win but it will be close.

Sebastian has been off form for the last few races, sadly it happened last year as well, but I like to give him the benefit of the doubt and not pretend that the man can't race.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:25 pm 
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I couldn't guess.

One thing I will say though.. if Vettel gets beaten... he'd leave Ferrari.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
I couldn't guess.

One thing I will say though.. if Vettel gets beaten... he'd leave Ferrari.

That's quite possible, in that scenario I would see him making inquiries at Mercedes about Hamilton's future with the team post 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
I couldn't guess.

One thing I will say though.. if Vettel gets beaten... he'd leave Ferrari.

It's make or break for Vettel. If he gets beaten, Ferrari will show him the door. They won't pay his salary for him to be a #2. It will also likely mean the end of his time in top machinery. Mercedes wouldn't hire him to replace Hamilton if Lewis retires. They would undoubtedly pursue Max. Ironically, with the way Red Bull's young driver program has faltered of late, he might end up back there some day if Max leaves.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:34 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
It will be difficult for Leclerc if he starts of in Sebs back pocket. If he's as quick as I suspect he is then he'll be capable of beating Vettel in a fair few races right away and mounting his own challenge for the title assuming the car is good enough.

For drivers in leading teams, it is difficult to turn it around if you start off as a clearly defined number 2 driver. Massa in 2008 is probably the only example of it in the last decade



I think most here are underestimating having to move to unknown territory and going up against one of the best drivers on the grid and in a car that has been developed around him for the last 4 years. It’s going to take time for Leclerc getting up to speed. Unless he’s in a different league than Seb as a driver, which I doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:16 pm 
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While I've been impressed by Leclerc, for me he's still a bit of an unknown quantity - similar to Ocon, wherein I feel he's good for the midfield, but may or may not belong to the top like Vettel/Hamilton/Alonso.

His initial races and his inevitable spins in the wet also don't inspire much confidence, especially since the Ferrari is noticeably weaker in the rain as well. Right now for me he's a bit like Massa - super quick on his day, but erratic (and hopeless in the wet).

Would love to be proven wrong, but haven't seen anything yet which makes me feel otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:51 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
It will be difficult for Leclerc if he starts of in Sebs back pocket. If he's as quick as I suspect he is then he'll be capable of beating Vettel in a fair few races right away and mounting his own challenge for the title assuming the car is good enough.

For drivers in leading teams, it is difficult to turn it around if you start off as a clearly defined number 2 driver. Massa in 2008 is probably the only example of it in the last decade



I think most here are underestimating having to move to unknown territory and going up against one of the best drivers on the grid and in a car that has been developed around him for the last 4 years. It’s going to take time for Leclerc getting up to speed. Unless he’s in a different league than Seb as a driver, which I doubt.


The best talents tend to show that pace early on. It might take 4-5 races to get up to speed, but if Charles is good enough there is no excuse for him not to be competitive from that point.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:57 pm 
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LeClerc has already said that he thinks he is out if he doesn't make a good showing in the first year so he has nothing to lose, surely he will just throw everything at it as soon as he can.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:39 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
It's make or break for Vettel. If he gets beaten, Ferrari will show him the door. They won't pay his salary for him to be a #2. It will also likely mean the end of his time in top machinery. Mercedes wouldn't hire him to replace Hamilton if Lewis retires. They would undoubtedly pursue Max. Ironically, with the way Red Bull's young driver program has faltered of late, he might end up back there some day if Max leaves.

Mercedes has made it pretty clear that they were never actually interested in Max and were just faking RBR out to overpay for him. They seem convinced in Ocon as the future, based on what Wolff is saying - I think the plan is definitely at this point for Ocon to replace Hamilton in the long term, and possibly Bottas in the short term.

So whether or not I'm right, I am doubting that they'd pursue Max. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
I'm going to go for...

Leclerc wins the qualifying battle, and is slightly ahead on points. I really feel Leclerc is the real deal, he's going to have the full support of Ferrari, and I see Seb as vulnerable.

Noooo freaking way!

If there are 2 things Vettel shines at, they're opening up a gap from the front and Qualifying!
Vettel will not only beat, but spank Leclerc in Qualy. In races Leclerc stands a chance of being close because of how tight things are likely going to be at the front which will result in contact and the kid might be perfectly lined up to swoop in and pick up the scraps. Outside of that Vettel will be Ferrari's top driver on merit.

_________________
HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Posts: 209
And yet again he spins in the wet...

Granted, it's only practice, but has anyone ever seen a convincing performance from LeClerc in any wet session (maybe in the junior categories - genuinely interested in knowing)? It might just be me, but he seems like one of the worst out there when the track is wet - like a Grosjean....which doesn't inspire an iota of confidence in his abilities.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5635
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I'm going to go for...

Leclerc wins the qualifying battle, and is slightly ahead on points. I really feel Leclerc is the real deal, he's going to have the full support of Ferrari, and I see Seb as vulnerable.

Noooo freaking way!

If there are 2 things Vettel shines at, they're opening up a gap from the front and Qualifying!
Vettel will not only beat, but spank Leclerc in Qualy. In races Leclerc stands a chance of being close because of how tight things are likely going to be at the front which will result in contact and the kid might be perfectly lined up to swoop in and pick up the scraps. Outside of that Vettel will be Ferrari's top driver on merit.

I have a feeling you're going to have to eat these words.


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 Post subject: Re: Vettel vs. Leclerc
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:12 pm 
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For their first season together, I think it's safe to assume vettel will have the edge - but after leclerc has bedded in it is difficult to say for 2020 and beyond and think he could have the edge


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