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Hamilton/Ferrari vs Hamilton Merc
Hamilton/Ferrari concedes WDC earlier than Vettel/Ferrari 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Hamilton/Ferrari concedes WDC at the same time as Vettel/Ferrari 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
Hamilton/Ferrari concedes WDC later than Vettel/Ferrari 22%  22%  [ 11 ]
Hamilton/Ferrari takes WDC to final race, but too close to call 35%  35%  [ 17 ]
Hamilton/Ferrari wins WDC 31%  31%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 49
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:21 am 
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shay550 wrote:
Better question - Will Hamilton ever drive for Ferrari in F1?

I don't see him leaving Mercedes now, 5 great cars in a row and he's always driven for Mercedes basically, I think he's tied to the team on an emotional level and there's no reason to leave whilst they remain competitive.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:13 am 
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Johnson wrote:
A bit harsh to compare possibly Hamiltons best season to maybe Vettels worst.

I think if Vettel had met expectation and his own standard then the gap would be very small at the moment. Germany alone would halve the gap.

From Singapore 2017 to now, approx 25 races has been a disaster for Vettel. He must have had an accident/collision in 1/3 of those races.


Think it's time we stop permissing vettels seasons as "bad seasons" and just accept he's not as good as we thought he was after 2013 - 2014, 2017, 2018 have really dented his image, and i would probably put him behind ricciardo and Verstappen now, who i believe would have performed better between 2014 - now with the same scenarios. Looking forward to what happens if leclerc exposes him aswell in 2019


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:44 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Johnson wrote:
A bit harsh to compare possibly Hamiltons best season to maybe Vettels worst.

I think if Vettel had met expectation and his own standard then the gap would be very small at the moment. Germany alone would halve the gap.

From Singapore 2017 to now, approx 25 races has been a disaster for Vettel. He must have had an accident/collision in 1/3 of those races.


Think it's time we stop permissing vettels seasons as "bad seasons" and just accept he's not as good as we thought he was after 2013 - 2014, 2017, 2018 have really dented his image, and i would probably put him behind ricciardo and Verstappen now, who i believe would have performed better between 2014 - now with the same scenarios. Looking forward to what happens if leclerc exposes him aswell in 2019


I think he is underperforming - reminds me of Hamilton's 2011 season. He's way better than this. The way the last two seasons have gone hopefully Ferrari and people in his inner circle are encouraging him to see a sports psychologist. After winning four titles and then coming to Ferrari and absolutely blowing away his teammate and winning races he really has nothing left to prove. When he has a bad race he usually comes of very nonchalant (Sochi for example) in the post-race interviews and maybe he's missing a something to add that extra bit of fire.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:21 pm 
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shay550 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Johnson wrote:
A bit harsh to compare possibly Hamiltons best season to maybe Vettels worst.

I think if Vettel had met expectation and his own standard then the gap would be very small at the moment. Germany alone would halve the gap.

From Singapore 2017 to now, approx 25 races has been a disaster for Vettel. He must have had an accident/collision in 1/3 of those races.


Think it's time we stop permissing vettels seasons as "bad seasons" and just accept he's not as good as we thought he was after 2013 - 2014, 2017, 2018 have really dented his image, and i would probably put him behind ricciardo and Verstappen now, who i believe would have performed better between 2014 - now with the same scenarios. Looking forward to what happens if leclerc exposes him aswell in 2019


I think he is underperforming - reminds me of Hamilton's 2011 season. He's way better than this. The way the last two seasons have gone hopefully Ferrari and people in his inner circle are encouraging him to see a sports psychologist. After winning four titles and then coming to Ferrari and absolutely blowing away his teammate and winning races he really has nothing left to prove. When he has a bad race he usually comes of very nonchalant (Sochi for example) in the post-race interviews and maybe he's missing a something to add that extra bit of fire.


Lol, he has a lot to prove. He has accomplished nothing in the new era of formula 1 and has been defeated by the only competitive team mate he's had


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:27 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
shay550 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Johnson wrote:
A bit harsh to compare possibly Hamiltons best season to maybe Vettels worst.

I think if Vettel had met expectation and his own standard then the gap would be very small at the moment. Germany alone would halve the gap.

From Singapore 2017 to now, approx 25 races has been a disaster for Vettel. He must have had an accident/collision in 1/3 of those races.


Think it's time we stop permissing vettels seasons as "bad seasons" and just accept he's not as good as we thought he was after 2013 - 2014, 2017, 2018 have really dented his image, and i would probably put him behind ricciardo and Verstappen now, who i believe would have performed better between 2014 - now with the same scenarios. Looking forward to what happens if leclerc exposes him aswell in 2019


I think he is underperforming - reminds me of Hamilton's 2011 season. He's way better than this. The way the last two seasons have gone hopefully Ferrari and people in his inner circle are encouraging him to see a sports psychologist. After winning four titles and then coming to Ferrari and absolutely blowing away his teammate and winning races he really has nothing left to prove. When he has a bad race he usually comes of very nonchalant (Sochi for example) in the post-race interviews and maybe he's missing a something to add that extra bit of fire.


Lol, he has a lot to prove. He has accomplished nothing in the new era of formula 1 and has been defeated by the only competitive team mate he's had


13 race wins in the new era. Only Lewis and Nico are better?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:47 pm 
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This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:06 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:56 pm 
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shay550 wrote:
13 race wins in the new era. Only Lewis and Nico are better?

Two years in a title challenging car, zero championships...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
shay550 wrote:
13 race wins in the new era. Only Lewis and Nico are better?

Two years in a title challenging car, zero championships...

Exactly, for once we agree Exediron :lol: , being a race winner isn't good enough if he wants to go down as a great with the cars hes had in the last 2 seasons. With Leclerc joining Ferrari next season he definitely has something to prove


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:48 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.

The one thing we do know is the 2 times this year we heard about these sensors the Ferrari pace dropped.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am 
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Clarky wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.

The one thing we do know is the 2 times this year we heard about these sensors the Ferrari pace dropped.

That's not the only thing we know. Ferrari very recently also denied that the sensors had anything to do with any performance drop. Straight from the horse's mouth


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:27 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.

The one thing we do know is the 2 times this year we heard about these sensors the Ferrari pace dropped.

That's not the only thing we know. Ferrari very recently also denied that the sensors had anything to do with any performance drop. Straight from the horse's mouth

so did the FIA, for that matter


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:28 am 
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:thumbup:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.

The one thing we do know is the 2 times this year we heard about these sensors the Ferrari pace dropped.

That's not the only thing we know. Ferrari very recently also denied that the sensors had anything to do with any performance drop. Straight from the horse's mouth

so did the FIA, for that matter


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.

The one thing we do know is the 2 times this year we heard about these sensors the Ferrari pace dropped.

That's not the only thing we know. Ferrari very recently also denied that the sensors had anything to do with any performance drop. Straight from the horse's mouth

Coincidence?

They aren't exactly going to say yes we did it, it wouldn't do the sport any favours.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
:thumbup:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.

The one thing we do know is the 2 times this year we heard about these sensors the Ferrari pace dropped.

That's not the only thing we know. Ferrari very recently also denied that the sensors had anything to do with any performance drop. Straight from the horse's mouth

so did the FIA, for that matter


I somehow managed to thumbup you above the actual message!!! World's first


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.

The one thing we do know is the 2 times this year we heard about these sensors the Ferrari pace dropped.

That's not the only thing we know. Ferrari very recently also denied that the sensors had anything to do with any performance drop. Straight from the horse's mouth

Coincidence?

They aren't exactly going to say yes we did it, it wouldn't do the sport any favours.

So if the FIA's and Ferrari's quotes & the Autosport article explaining how Ferrari's upgrades didn't work don't seem to please you, what would do it for you?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
This year's Ferrari has proven fast in qualifying, but inconsistent on race day, regardless of driver, regardless of tire, regardless of team strategy.

Plus, the Ferrari hasn't been on par with the Mercedes since FIA installed that sensor...

As far as I'm aware nobody knows when the FIA installed that sensor. We know something was done in Canada but we don't know the specifics of anything more recent than that.

The one thing we do know is the 2 times this year we heard about these sensors the Ferrari pace dropped.

That's not the only thing we know. Ferrari very recently also denied that the sensors had anything to do with any performance drop. Straight from the horse's mouth

Coincidence?

They aren't exactly going to say yes we did it, it wouldn't do the sport any favours.

The FIA would happily say that. They've always said in the past when they've cracked down on something illegal, so why not now?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Given Hamilton is just a driver, and Ferrari have bigger problems than just their driver making silly mistakes, I’d say Hamilton wouldn’t have been able to win the title in the Ferrari. The car was just faster, slightly, during the first half of the season. The race strategy team does a great job of losing more points than they have gained.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:16 pm 
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ohwell wrote:
Given Hamilton is just a driver, and Ferrari have bigger problems than just their driver making silly mistakes, I’d say Hamilton wouldn’t have been able to win the title in the Ferrari. The car was just faster, slightly, during the first half of the season. The race strategy team does a great job of losing more points than they have gained.

More points than Vettel though?

There's an article doing the rounds that Vettel personally has lost 125 points in comparison to Hamilton these past 2 seasons.

Just looking at the bigger picture this year he lost 32 points when he crashed in Germany, he should really have won in Italy that's a minimum of 20 points, and I daresay Hamilton would have done better in the wet qualifying we have had in particular in Japan, then we have Baku, France and the unfortunate blocking penalty that Vettel picked up in Austria.

Vettel's mistakes put a level of pressure on Ferrari that probably wouldn't have happened if Hamilton had been in the team, it's the pressure than can then result in mistakes being made.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
ohwell wrote:
Given Hamilton is just a driver, and Ferrari have bigger problems than just their driver making silly mistakes, I’d say Hamilton wouldn’t have been able to win the title in the Ferrari. The car was just faster, slightly, during the first half of the season. The race strategy team does a great job of losing more points than they have gained.

More points than Vettel though?

There's an article doing the rounds that Vettel personally has lost 125 points in comparison to Hamilton these past 2 seasons.

Just looking at the bigger picture this year he lost 32 points when he crashed in Germany, he should really have won in Italy that's a minimum of 20 points, and I daresay Hamilton would have done better in the wet qualifying we have had in particular in Japan, then we have Baku, France and the unfortunate blocking penalty that Vettel picked up in Austria.

Vettel's mistakes put a level of pressure on Ferrari that probably wouldn't have happened if Hamilton had been in the team, it's the pressure than can then result in mistakes being made.


Now you are making assumptions by guessing again, you have no idea what the pressure is by driving at Ferrari.
Hamilton has never driven anything but Merc, where everything is smooth and has been for 5 years now.
How he would react to the italian way is simply guesswork.

IMO Vettel has taken on perhaps a little bit to much this season, but hopefully that will smooth out in 2019.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:43 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ohwell wrote:
Given Hamilton is just a driver, and Ferrari have bigger problems than just their driver making silly mistakes, I’d say Hamilton wouldn’t have been able to win the title in the Ferrari. The car was just faster, slightly, during the first half of the season. The race strategy team does a great job of losing more points than they have gained.

More points than Vettel though?

There's an article doing the rounds that Vettel personally has lost 125 points in comparison to Hamilton these past 2 seasons.

Just looking at the bigger picture this year he lost 32 points when he crashed in Germany, he should really have won in Italy that's a minimum of 20 points, and I daresay Hamilton would have done better in the wet qualifying we have had in particular in Japan, then we have Baku, France and the unfortunate blocking penalty that Vettel picked up in Austria.

Vettel's mistakes put a level of pressure on Ferrari that probably wouldn't have happened if Hamilton had been in the team, it's the pressure than can then result in mistakes being made.


Now you are making assumptions by guessing again, you have no idea what the pressure is by driving at Ferrari.
Hamilton has never driven anything but Merc, where everything is smooth and has been for 5 years now.
How he would react to the italian way is simply guesswork.

IMO Vettel has taken on perhaps a little bit to much this season, but hopefully that will smooth out in 2019.

I wouldn't disagree that Ferrari is a more pressurised atmosphere, however I do think that Hamilton has proven in recent years that he can deal with pressure.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:24 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ohwell wrote:
Given Hamilton is just a driver, and Ferrari have bigger problems than just their driver making silly mistakes, I’d say Hamilton wouldn’t have been able to win the title in the Ferrari. The car was just faster, slightly, during the first half of the season. The race strategy team does a great job of losing more points than they have gained.

More points than Vettel though?

There's an article doing the rounds that Vettel personally has lost 125 points in comparison to Hamilton these past 2 seasons.

Just looking at the bigger picture this year he lost 32 points when he crashed in Germany, he should really have won in Italy that's a minimum of 20 points, and I daresay Hamilton would have done better in the wet qualifying we have had in particular in Japan, then we have Baku, France and the unfortunate blocking penalty that Vettel picked up in Austria.

Vettel's mistakes put a level of pressure on Ferrari that probably wouldn't have happened if Hamilton had been in the team, it's the pressure than can then result in mistakes being made.


Now you are making assumptions by guessing again, you have no idea what the pressure is by driving at Ferrari.
Hamilton has never driven anything but Merc, where everything is smooth and has been for 5 years now.
How he would react to the italian way is simply guesswork.

IMO Vettel has taken on perhaps a little bit to much this season, but hopefully that will smooth out in 2019.

I wouldn't disagree that Ferrari is a more pressurised atmosphere, however I do think that Hamilton has proven in recent years that he can deal with pressure.

Hamilton can deal great with some types of pressure. If he started feeling that the team and the Italian media weren't behind him (which would probably happen at some point at Ferrari) I'm less certain that's the sort of pressure he's good with. In particular if he felt the team didn't believe in him.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:23 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ohwell wrote:
Given Hamilton is just a driver, and Ferrari have bigger problems than just their driver making silly mistakes, I’d say Hamilton wouldn’t have been able to win the title in the Ferrari. The car was just faster, slightly, during the first half of the season. The race strategy team does a great job of losing more points than they have gained.

More points than Vettel though?

There's an article doing the rounds that Vettel personally has lost 125 points in comparison to Hamilton these past 2 seasons.

Just looking at the bigger picture this year he lost 32 points when he crashed in Germany, he should really have won in Italy that's a minimum of 20 points, and I daresay Hamilton would have done better in the wet qualifying we have had in particular in Japan, then we have Baku, France and the unfortunate blocking penalty that Vettel picked up in Austria.

Vettel's mistakes put a level of pressure on Ferrari that probably wouldn't have happened if Hamilton had been in the team, it's the pressure than can then result in mistakes being made.


Now you are making assumptions by guessing again, you have no idea what the pressure is by driving at Ferrari.
Hamilton has never driven anything but Merc, where everything is smooth and has been for 5 years now.
How he would react to the italian way is simply guesswork.

IMO Vettel has taken on perhaps a little bit to much this season, but hopefully that will smooth out in 2019.

I wouldn't disagree that Ferrari is a more pressurised atmosphere, however I do think that Hamilton has proven in recent years that he can deal with pressure.

Hamilton can deal great with some types of pressure. If he started feeling that the team and the Italian media weren't behind him (which would probably happen at some point at Ferrari) I'm less certain that's the sort of pressure he's good with. In particular if he felt the team didn't believe in him.

The pressure would come on him if he made the mistakes that Vettel has made, you are kind of presuming that would be the case?

Also why would he feel the team not behind him unless you feel he would have a problem with handling Kimi?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 am 
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Making mistakes in Baku, France, Germany, Austria and Monza while the car your driving has an advantage will put pressure on the team and yourself. Plenty of lost points and behind in the standings when you shouldn't be.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:54 am 
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pokerman wrote:
The pressure would come on him if he made the mistakes that Vettel has made, you are kind of presuming that would be the case?

Also why would he feel the team not behind him unless you feel he would have a problem with handling Kimi?

He didn't have a problem handling Button, either, or particularly much with Rosberg. In both cases he felt the team was aligning too much behind the other driver.

And no, I'm not assuming he'd make the same mistakes as Vettel. I don't think he would. But he would have probably lost last year's title anyway due to reliability, and that would create pressure, both internal and external. As well, I don't know how he'd feel about promoting Leclerc to the team (assuming that would happen anyway) - he might take it as a sign that the team doesn't believe in him.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The pressure would come on him if he made the mistakes that Vettel has made, you are kind of presuming that would be the case?

Also why would he feel the team not behind him unless you feel he would have a problem with handling Kimi?

He didn't have a problem handling Button, either, or particularly much with Rosberg. In both cases he felt the team was aligning too much behind the other driver.

And no, I'm not assuming he'd make the same mistakes as Vettel. I don't think he would. But he would have probably lost last year's title anyway due to reliability, and that would create pressure, both internal and external. As well, I don't know how he'd feel about promoting Leclerc to the team (assuming that would happen anyway) - he might take it as a sign that the team doesn't believe in him.

Well I guess that would depend on whether Ferrari themselves backed Hamilton's title challenge or felt the need to prop up the weaker driver, Button 2012, in respect to Kimi I don't believe it's in his make up to park his car in qualifying to protect a pole position or defend his position against Hamilton no matter the consequences.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Would Hamilton in the Ferrari have beat Hamilton in the Merc?
Nope. I suspect that he may well be closer than Vettel currently is but not by a significant margin.
Ferrari, as a team, has made one or two strategy blunders which I assume would not change regardless of driver. I suspect that Hamilton wold have been more likely to avoid contact in both France and Monza and may well have avoided an all-or-nothing dive in Baku. Anyone could make a 'small mistake' in those conditions in Germany, so I'm averse to a points swing there.
That's my opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:59 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
Would Hamilton in the Ferrari have beat Hamilton in the Merc?
Nope. I suspect that he may well be closer than Vettel currently is but not by a significant margin.
Ferrari, as a team, has made one or two strategy blunders which I assume would not change regardless of driver. I suspect that Hamilton wold have been more likely to avoid contact in both France and Monza and may well have avoided an all-or-nothing dive in Baku. Anyone could make a 'small mistake' in those conditions in Germany, so I'm averse to a points swing there.
That's my opinion.

It's bit of a stretch because Vettel made the mistake in Germany then Hamilton may have done the same driving the same car as Vettel, from there I can see why you consider the difference wouldn't be that much different.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:01 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
Would Hamilton in the Ferrari have beat Hamilton in the Merc?
Nope. I suspect that he may well be closer than Vettel currently is but not by a significant margin.
Ferrari, as a team, has made one or two strategy blunders which I assume would not change regardless of driver. I suspect that Hamilton wold have been more likely to avoid contact in both France and Monza and may well have avoided an all-or-nothing dive in Baku. Anyone could make a 'small mistake' in those conditions in Germany, so I'm averse to a points swing there.
That's my opinion.

It's bit of a stretch because Vettel made the mistake in Germany then Hamilton may have done the same driving the same car as Vettel, from there I can see why you consider the difference wouldn't be that much different.

I find it a bit of a stretch that going off into a gravel trap in the rain, or indeed running the white line when wet is now considered a 'small mistake'. It was a pretty big mistake when most corners were gravel, but now 90% of the corners are tarmacked its just plain daft to push the limits on the few remaining gravel trap corners. More like a major error of judgement.


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