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2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread
http://cricket365.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15249
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Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Lt. Drebin wrote:
- Undisputed dominance of Mercedes, their car looks stable and fast, as well as easiest to drive.
- I didn't know that you can turn into half side competitor, who duly keeps his inner line, and make him spin without penalty. In other words, interesting tactics.
- Ferrari lost it, clearly is not anymore top car.
- There are at least some half-fun battles midfield, as shown by the Japanese coverage.
- Renault also lost the development battles.
- I am not that sure anymore that Gasly and Leclerc are such a worthy inheritors of top seats, but time will tell.
- Alonso is annoying overly much.
- Again fun factor and excitement is missing F1.


That's quite a strange conclusion from that race. Leclerc got his race completely compromised by some very erratic driving from Magnussen and then Marcus. Gasly totally outperformed his teammate and was compromised by some woeful Torro Rosso strategy calls

Author:  mikeyg123 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

With Magnussen getting let off today can we finalise close the book on the Verstappen gets special treatment argument?

Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- Undisputed dominance of Mercedes, their car looks stable and fast, as well as easiest to drive.
- I didn't know that you can turn into half side competitor, who duly keeps his inner line, and make him spin without penalty. In other words, interesting tactics.
- Ferrari lost it, clearly is not anymore top car.
- There are at least some half-fun battles midfield, as shown by the Japanese coverage.
- Renault also lost the development battles.
- I am not that sure anymore that Gasly and Leclerc are such a worthy inheritors of top seats, but time will tell.
- Alonso is annoying overly much.
- Again fun factor and excitement is missing F1.

Yes let's just ignore all of Vettel's driving mistakes which also includes yesterdays qualifying and he had a collision in the race, just blame it all on Ferrari.


It is not a mistake to pass Max. It is bogus to say that people trying to win championships should not try to pass Max. I would rather Vettel never win a championship rather than tip toe around Max because he drives like a wild man. In any case, he will learn only when he himself goes for a championship and others are out there carelessly getting into racing incidents with him.


It was a mistake to try and pass him there. Vettel has had a few of these incidents where he blames the other driver for not leaving him space despite them clearly leaving him space. It was desperate and wild from Seb. He threw away a decent chance of second place there I reckon.

Author:  Lt. Drebin [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

BMWSauber84 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- Undisputed dominance of Mercedes, their car looks stable and fast, as well as easiest to drive.
- I didn't know that you can turn into half side competitor, who duly keeps his inner line, and make him spin without penalty. In other words, interesting tactics.
- Ferrari lost it, clearly is not anymore top car.
- There are at least some half-fun battles midfield, as shown by the Japanese coverage.
- Renault also lost the development battles.
- I am not that sure anymore that Gasly and Leclerc are such a worthy inheritors of top seats, but time will tell.
- Alonso is annoying overly much.
- Again fun factor and excitement is missing F1.

Yes let's just ignore all of Vettel's driving mistakes which also includes yesterdays qualifying and he had a collision in the race, just blame it all on Ferrari.


It is not a mistake to pass Max. It is bogus to say that people trying to win championships should not try to pass Max. I would rather Vettel never win a championship rather than tip toe around Max because he drives like a wild man. In any case, he will learn only when he himself goes for a championship and others are out there carelessly getting into racing incidents with him.


It was a mistake to try and pass him there. Vettel has had a few of these incidents where he blames the other driver for not leaving him space despite them clearly leaving him space. It was desperate and wild from Seb. He threw away a decent chance of second place there I reckon.

Not at all. Vettel indeed kept the inner line, Max turned into him.

Author:  Flash2k11 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Vettel was never getting past Max there, and given that Max was sitting on a 5 second penalty at that point in time, it was a strange decision to get so reckless so early on. I guess desperation has long since set in at that point, certainly seemed like Vettel's head has gone this weekend. Ferrari managing to manouvre Kimi behind Ricciardo at the stops took some doing too, really, really bad weekend for Ferrari... feels like it'll be a long road back for them as a team after this.

Magnussen also needs a long hard look at himself, quite how he got away with what he did to Leclerc is beyond me.

Not a great race for the TR boys, bad strategy did for them at the pit stops. RPFI looking like they are going to finish strongly too.

As for the title, it's done, and it's looking that way in the WCC too. Job well done for Mercedes, job well done for Hamilton too.

Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Lt. Drebin wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- Undisputed dominance of Mercedes, their car looks stable and fast, as well as easiest to drive.
- I didn't know that you can turn into half side competitor, who duly keeps his inner line, and make him spin without penalty. In other words, interesting tactics.
- Ferrari lost it, clearly is not anymore top car.
- There are at least some half-fun battles midfield, as shown by the Japanese coverage.
- Renault also lost the development battles.
- I am not that sure anymore that Gasly and Leclerc are such a worthy inheritors of top seats, but time will tell.
- Alonso is annoying overly much.
- Again fun factor and excitement is missing F1.

Yes let's just ignore all of Vettel's driving mistakes which also includes yesterdays qualifying and he had a collision in the race, just blame it all on Ferrari.


It is not a mistake to pass Max. It is bogus to say that people trying to win championships should not try to pass Max. I would rather Vettel never win a championship rather than tip toe around Max because he drives like a wild man. In any case, he will learn only when he himself goes for a championship and others are out there carelessly getting into racing incidents with him.


It was a mistake to try and pass him there. Vettel has had a few of these incidents where he blames the other driver for not leaving him space despite them clearly leaving him space. It was desperate and wild from Seb. He threw away a decent chance of second place there I reckon.

Not at all. Vettel indeed kept the inner line, Max turned into him.


Nonsense and actually quite a scandalous allegation.. It was far too tight a line to try and overtake there. Verstappen had to make the corner and Vettel never at any point had any part of his car in front of Max's.

Author:  Fiki [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Why are they throwing a VSC every time a car is parked directly in front of a gap in the barrier. In dry weather surely that can be covered with double yellows. They have done 3-4 times this year but also not done it on other occasions.

After Bianchi they are taking no chances here.
It's not just there. Kimi go a penalty at Francorchamps last year, in similar circumstances. It's silly to halt racing when yellows are more than sufficient, provided you penalize drivers who don't respect them every time. But apparently F1 doesn't have the courage to enforce its own rules all of the time.

Author:  Zoue [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

I didn't watch the race live so didn't come on here to avoid spoilers, but I'm surprised not more was made of Verstappen's actions and penalty today. He caused a collision by driving unsafely, coupled with missing the chicane, and effectively ruined another driver's race, but only got a 5s penalty. Which wasn't really a penalty at all because he'd compromised Kimi's car in the process. I don't understand why he seems to get away with this stuff all the time

Author:  Zoue [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes let's just ignore all of Vettel's driving mistakes which also includes yesterdays qualifying and he had a collision in the race, just blame it all on Ferrari.


It is not a mistake to pass Max. It is bogus to say that people trying to win championships should not try to pass Max. I would rather Vettel never win a championship rather than tip toe around Max because he drives like a wild man. In any case, he will learn only when he himself goes for a championship and others are out there carelessly getting into racing incidents with him.


It was a mistake to try and pass him there. Vettel has had a few of these incidents where he blames the other driver for not leaving him space despite them clearly leaving him space. It was desperate and wild from Seb. He threw away a decent chance of second place there I reckon.

Not at all. Vettel indeed kept the inner line, Max turned into him.


Nonsense and actually quite a scandalous allegation.. It was far too tight a line to try and overtake there. Verstappen had to make the corner and Vettel never at any point had any part of his car in front of Max's.

I think scandalous allegation is a bit excessive. I also think Max could and should have left a bit more room. A couple of races ago i recall Hamilton praising Kimi for being fair in racing hard while still leaving enough space so both could race safely. That's what Max should have done here but it seems he doesn't agree with that principle

Author:  Fiki [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Zoue wrote:
I didn't watch the race live so didn't come on here to avoid spoilers, but I'm surprised not more was made of Verstappen's actions and penalty today. He caused a collision by driving unsafely, coupled with missing the chicane, and effectively ruined another driver's race, but only got a 5s penalty. Which wasn't really a penalty at all because he'd compromised Kimi's car in the process. I don't understand why he seems to get away with this stuff all the time
I was just thinking I would like Tom Kristensen to answer that question.

Author:  Flash2k11 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

Author:  Lt. Drebin [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Zoue wrote:
I didn't watch the race live so didn't come on here to avoid spoilers, but I'm surprised not more was made of Verstappen's actions and penalty today. He caused a collision by driving unsafely, coupled with missing the chicane, and effectively ruined another driver's race, but only got a 5s penalty. Which wasn't really a penalty at all because he'd compromised Kimi's car in the process. I don't understand why he seems to get away with this stuff all the time


His attitude is also preventing him from accepting his mistake. Hulk made the same mistake precisely & when Checo was overtaking him in the same way as Raikkonen was trying to do, Hulk gave Checo space by not coming on the racing line to run Checo off the circuit! Hulk did not hope for Checo to wait!!!!!!!!

Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

Author:  Flash2k11 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


Rather than drag this out into a slanging match, I guess i'll just have to respectfully disagree.

That the stewards saw fit not to issue any punishment despite one of the 2 parties ending up at the back of the field (and punished enough already?) tells me that they might have agreed with me.

Author:  Zoue [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

UnlikeUday wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I didn't watch the race live so didn't come on here to avoid spoilers, but I'm surprised not more was made of Verstappen's actions and penalty today. He caused a collision by driving unsafely, coupled with missing the chicane, and effectively ruined another driver's race, but only got a 5s penalty. Which wasn't really a penalty at all because he'd compromised Kimi's car in the process. I don't understand why he seems to get away with this stuff all the time


His attitude is also preventing him from accepting his mistake. Hulk made the same mistake precisely & when Checo was overtaking him in the same way as Raikkonen was trying to do, Hulk gave Checo space by not coming on the racing line to run Checo off the circuit! Hulk did not hope for Checo to wait!!!!!!!!

Yes, he says Kimi should have "waited." I think he forgets he's not the only one racing.

Dutch TV is hilariously biased. They think Max did nothing wrong and it was Kimi's mistake :lol:

Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

mikeyg123 wrote:
With Magnussen getting let off today can we finalise close the book on the Verstappen gets special treatment argument?


Surely they have to review the K-Mag punishment. That's as close to a black flag manoeuvre as I have seen for a while.

Author:  Lt. Drebin [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

Is there anything wrong in what I said above? Did Vettel turned into Max, or Max into Vettel? Didn't Vettel kept far left? What out of my post does not correspond with the evidence in video?
You don't need to comment on me and my personality, but on the event to make a valid point.

Author:  Zoue [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

I don't see that putting an alternative point of view is embarrassing oneself.

Author:  bourbon19 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Max's time will come. It will be a hard lesson for him because he will go from having nothing to lose to losing everything. It is inevitable that he will reap what he has sown. These drivers will not forget.

Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Lt. Drebin wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

Is there anything wrong in what I said above? Did Vettel turned into Max, or Max into Vettel? Didn't Vettel kept far left? What out of my post does not correspond with the evidence in video?
You don't need to comment on me and my personality, but on the event to make a valid point.



There's the fact that Vettel was never making the corner taking that narrow line without using Verstappen as a buffer. The fact is that Max Verstappen doesn't 'turn into Seb', he turns in to make the corner. As DC said, there is not enough deceleration in that corner to make a move realistic.

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

bourbon19 wrote:
Max's time will come. It will be a hard lesson for him because he will go from having nothing to lose to losing everything. It is inevitable that he will reap what he has sown. These drivers will not forget.


He did get 1 penalty point.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/penalty-points-for-verstappen-alonso-stroll/

Author:  Tufty [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Lt. Drebin wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

Is there anything wrong in what I said above? Did Vettel turned into Max, or Max into Vettel? Didn't Vettel kept far left? What out of my post does not correspond with the evidence in video?
You don't need to comment on me and my personality, but on the event to make a valid point.

At the point of impact Seb has a half-car's width on his inside. He then drifts wide and clouts Max, damaging both their cars. So staying far left is gone straight away. You're right control is only lost post impact, but that doesn't dictate where the blame lies.

Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Zoue wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

I don't see that putting an alternative point of view is embarrassing oneself.


Some points of view are so divorced from reality as to be absurd, usually influenced by bias. A belief that the earth is flat is an alternative point of view, it does not make that point of view valid.

Author:  Jezza13 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

bourbon19 wrote:
Max's time will come. It will be a hard lesson for him because he will go from having nothing to lose to losing everything. It is inevitable that he will reap what he has sown. These drivers will not forget.


No,no.

Haven't you heard? Apparently he's going to grow out of it.

You see he's still learning how to drive and he's only had 77 starts. Give the lad time.

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.


It also feels that Verstappen doesn't share a good rapport with Vettel when compared to Hamilton. You can feel that cold vibes coming from him towards Vettel. No doubt Vettel was opportunistic in trying to make that move but Verstappen knowing it was Vettel, made sure he closed the door (if any) as he knew the loss at the end would only be of Vettel's!

Author:  mikeyg123 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

BMWSauber84 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
With Magnussen getting let off today can we finalise close the book on the Verstappen gets special treatment argument?


Surely they have to review the K-Mag punishment. That's as close to a black flag manoeuvre as I have seen for a while.


Seems like my hope that people would see this and give up on the ridiculous "Verstappen gets special treatment" argument was in vain.

Author:  Zoue [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

I don't see that putting an alternative point of view is embarrassing oneself.


Some points of view are so divorced from reality as to be absurd, usually influenced by bias. A belief that the earth is flat is an alternative point of view, it does not make that point of view valid.

You're clearly a fan of hyperbole, but I would suggest that discussing the merits of an overtaking move isn't in the same league as trying to claim the earth is flat.

Author:  Flash2k11 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

mikeyg123 wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
With Magnussen getting let off today can we finalise close the book on the Verstappen gets special treatment argument?


Surely they have to review the K-Mag punishment. That's as close to a black flag manoeuvre as I have seen for a while.


Seems like my hope that people would see this and give up on the ridiculous "Verstappen gets special treatment" argument was in vain.


I think I mentioned already that i've no idea how that got overlooked, and Magnussen has got form for moving late as well. They really need to stamp this out before a car gets seriously airborne, because that is what the endgame for moving about like this is.

Author:  Fiki [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Zoue wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I didn't watch the race live so didn't come on here to avoid spoilers, but I'm surprised not more was made of Verstappen's actions and penalty today. He caused a collision by driving unsafely, coupled with missing the chicane, and effectively ruined another driver's race, but only got a 5s penalty. Which wasn't really a penalty at all because he'd compromised Kimi's car in the process. I don't understand why he seems to get away with this stuff all the time


His attitude is also preventing him from accepting his mistake. Hulk made the same mistake precisely & when Checo was overtaking him in the same way as Raikkonen was trying to do, Hulk gave Checo space by not coming on the racing line to run Checo off the circuit! Hulk did not hope for Checo to wait!!!!!!!!

Yes, he says Kimi should have "waited." I think he forgets he's not the only one racing.

Dutch TV is hilariously biased. They think Max did nothing wrong and it was Kimi's mistake :lol:
Glad you can see the fun in it. I would just find it very frustrating, the way they are misleading a whole generation of potential race fans, into becoming mere fanboys and -girls. Is there still no expert commentator who actually knows the rules?

Author:  Xink [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
https://streamable.com/46jy8

Vettel was never making that turn at that speed with Verstappen already there.

What I see is that Vettel duly keeps on the far left, and does not looses control until Max steers into him and makes contact.
ThX for posting the proof.


I think you need to take the blinkers off. You are embarassing yourself somewhat here. If Verstappen was to blame here then Vettel was to blame for the contact with Bottas at Hungary. Either assertion would be absurd

Is there anything wrong in what I said above? Did Vettel turned into Max, or Max into Vettel? Didn't Vettel kept far left? What out of my post does not correspond with the evidence in video?
You don't need to comment on me and my personality, but on the event to make a valid point.





There's the fact that Vettel was never making the corner taking that narrow line without using Verstappen as a buffer. The fact is that Max Verstappen doesn't 'turn into Seb', he turns in to make the corner. As DC said, there is not enough deceleration in that corner to make a move realistic.


Agreed he turned in to make the corner - Vettel going for a high risk overtake which didn’t pay off and the Stewards appear to think the same

Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Zoue wrote:

You're clearly a fan of hyperbole, but I would suggest that discussing the merits of an overtaking move isn't in the same league as trying to claim the earth is flat.
[/quote][/quote]

There is some crossover. All the evidence and experts point to one point of view, while the other is built on far more flaky foundations and leaps of faith.

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Alonso clearly cut the chicane & did gain an advantage. Still he moans about the second penalty he got. But then it's ridiculous a harmless excursion by Alonso gets a 5 second penalty whereas a dangerous move by Magnussen goes unnoticed!!!!

Author:  Clarky [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Lt. Drebin wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- Undisputed dominance of Mercedes, their car looks stable and fast, as well as easiest to drive.
- I didn't know that you can turn into half side competitor, who duly keeps his inner line, and make him spin without penalty. In other words, interesting tactics.
- Ferrari lost it, clearly is not anymore top car.
- There are at least some half-fun battles midfield, as shown by the Japanese coverage.
- Renault also lost the development battles.
- I am not that sure anymore that Gasly and Leclerc are such a worthy inheritors of top seats, but time will tell.
- Alonso is annoying overly much.
- Again fun factor and excitement is missing F1.

Yes let's just ignore all of Vettel's driving mistakes which also includes yesterdays qualifying and he had a collision in the race, just blame it all on Ferrari.


It is not a mistake to pass Max. It is bogus to say that people trying to win championships should not try to pass Max. I would rather Vettel never win a championship rather than tip toe around Max because he drives like a wild man. In any case, he will learn only when he himself goes for a championship and others are out there carelessly getting into racing incidents with him.


It was a mistake to try and pass him there. Vettel has had a few of these incidents where he blames the other driver for not leaving him space despite them clearly leaving him space. It was desperate and wild from Seb. He threw away a decent chance of second place there I reckon.

Not at all. Vettel indeed kept the inner line, Max turned into him.

The inner line is 'NOT' the racing line.

Author:  BMWSauber84 [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

As much as I think it is absurd to blame Max for the Vettel coming together, he clearly should have been received greater punishment for the Raikkonen incident.

That was clumsy and dangerous.You have to be more aware when rejoining the track. That could have been quite a nasty incident.

Author:  Caserole of Nonsense [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

is anybody truly suprised by vettels race craft. it has been suspect since day one and basically hasnt improved. he is just a faster version of felipe massa.

Author:  Clarky [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

From Twitter:

Points standings after 17 races of 2017: Hamilton 331, Vettel 265
Points standings after 17 races of 2018: Hamilton 331, Vettel 264

Author:  Fiki [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Clarky wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It is not a mistake to pass Max. It is bogus to say that people trying to win championships should not try to pass Max. I would rather Vettel never win a championship rather than tip toe around Max because he drives like a wild man. In any case, he will learn only when he himself goes for a championship and others are out there carelessly getting into racing incidents with him.


It was a mistake to try and pass him there. Vettel has had a few of these incidents where he blames the other driver for not leaving him space despite them clearly leaving him space. It was desperate and wild from Seb. He threw away a decent chance of second place there I reckon.

Not at all. Vettel indeed kept the inner line, Max turned into him.

The inner line is 'NOT' the racing line.
Why would that be important in this case Clarky?

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Here's a few different views of Verstappen-Raikkonen incident. It looks quite deliberate, if not disrespectful towards other's safety when viewing from Max's car:


Author:  Fiki [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Tufty wrote:
At the point of impact Seb has a half-car's width on his inside. He then drifts wide and clouts Max, damaging both their cars. So staying far left is gone straight away. You're right control is only lost post impact, but that doesn't dictate where the blame lies.
At the point of impact, either Max locks up his left front tyre, or his left front and Vettel's right front touch. So Vettel is much further alongside than halfway. Edit: it's Vettel's front wing that touches Max's front left tyre.
I wonder what Max said just after the incident; I could understand if he had said he never saw the attack coming, and turned into the corner normally.
But if he didn't claim that, he did indeed turn into a car that was already alongside. Which would make him the one who caused the accident.

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