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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Ocon finished P7 in both practice sessions. In FP2, he was 4 hundredths faster than 8th placed Grosjean. He said Suzuka suits his driving style & expects more pace after reviewing the data overnight.

With the upgrades added onto the car, Force India have a car now which can rival Haas & Renault.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.theres-more-to-come-ocon-excited-by-force-indias-suzuka-pace.2P2NurUDPaCaM4cCSae6WQ.html

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:36 pm 
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13917 ... -knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...


Last edited by sandman1347 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:01 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Word is FIA have fitted a second sensor on the battery which has led to power drop although they deny it obviously https://formulaspy.com/formula-1/ferrar ... nsor-56810

A power drop from Singapore, I don't see it as the qualifying onboards showed Vettel's Ferrari accelerating faster out of the corners than Hamilton's Mercedes, I think people are making guesses for the reasons behind the turn around in the relative performance between Ferrari and Mercedes?


from what scarborough was saying its not coming out of corners as such, its that they were getting a 2nd surge from the mguk further down the straights where they were "cleverly" getting extra power from either the mguh and/or battery to the k. now all the cars have gps they could all see what was happening and now its not happening, as much anyway. arrivebene claiming they are as fast on the straights as before but losing out in slow n mid speed corners. is that because now they have had to trim downforce? and if the gps isnt showing the same surge they have clearly had to change the system.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:21 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139174/ferrari-issues-warning-over-battery-knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...

yeah I can see their point really. They're saying this information is private and should not have been made public, so if this has, what else may have been?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:25 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139174/ferrari-issues-warning-over-battery-knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...


Why paranoid? This is supposed to be inside info, if they know that someone is leaking info, then isn't it an issue of concern? They've been burned before as we all know. Especially if they have advanced so much to have caught up and surpassed the Mercedes engine, THE engine to go for until this year, then they'd like to keep their design a secret from the other teams. If the FIA is leaking info, then that is a very big concern.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Would have guessed that Vader was supporter of Racing Point (Dark side of the) Force India. (I am your father Lance. Search your feelings. You know it to be true!) :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139174/ferrari-issues-warning-over-battery-knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...


Why paranoid? This is supposed to be inside info, if they know that someone is leaking info, then isn't it an issue of concern? They've been burned before as we all know. Especially if they have advanced so much to have caught up and surpassed the Mercedes engine, THE engine to go for until this year, then they'd like to keep their design a secret from the other teams. If the FIA is leaking info, then that is a very big concern.

I don't mean that they are unjustly paranoid or that their paranoia is unreasonable. I'm just saying that they seem paranoid (justifiably so IMO) that their innovations are being leaked somehow. Perhaps "suspicious" would be a better word than "Paranoid"?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:07 pm 
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A small video compilation of driver's reactions after the practice sessions today:
https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2018/10/JAPANESE_GP__Drivers_report_back_after_Friday_practice.html

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:22 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139174/ferrari-issues-warning-over-battery-knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...


Why paranoid? This is supposed to be inside info, if they know that someone is leaking info, then isn't it an issue of concern? They've been burned before as we all know. Especially if they have advanced so much to have caught up and surpassed the Mercedes engine, THE engine to go for until this year, then they'd like to keep their design a secret from the other teams. If the FIA is leaking info, then that is a very big concern.

I don't mean that they are unjustly paranoid or that their paranoia is unreasonable. I'm just saying that they seem paranoid (justifiably so IMO) that their innovations are being leaked somehow. Perhaps "suspicious" would be a better word than "Paranoid"?

Yeah, I agree, if you managed to find an advantage somehow through an innovation, you don't want to lose it. I just wonder if the "leak" is through a customer team or the FIA. Or indeed from within the team. Also, why is it only Ferrari that has the two sensors and not the customer teams that use the same configuration? I genuinely do not remember from what transpired back then.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139174/ferrari-issues-warning-over-battery-knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...


Why paranoid? This is supposed to be inside info, if they know that someone is leaking info, then isn't it an issue of concern? They've been burned before as we all know. Especially if they have advanced so much to have caught up and surpassed the Mercedes engine, THE engine to go for until this year, then they'd like to keep their design a secret from the other teams. If the FIA is leaking info, then that is a very big concern.

I don't mean that they are unjustly paranoid or that their paranoia is unreasonable. I'm just saying that they seem paranoid (justifiably so IMO) that their innovations are being leaked somehow. Perhaps "suspicious" would be a better word than "Paranoid"?

Yeah, I agree, if you managed to find an advantage somehow through an innovation, you don't want to lose it. I just wonder if the "leak" is through a customer team or the FIA. Or indeed from within the team. Also, why is it only Ferrari that has the two sensors and not the customer teams that use the same configuration? I genuinely do not remember from what transpired back then.

One thing to note is that they seem to have been breaking the rules before. It's one thing to complain that no one should have found out about it but the fact is that, if the installation of this sensor causes them to be unable to replicate their performance from before the sensor was in place, then they were obviously doing something illegal that they can no longer get away with.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Long run pace on Supersofts & Softs concerning the top 6:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:31 pm 
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^^^ Max really struggling with setup it seems.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Ferrari doesn't seem to think it's their power unit that is the problem. Arrivabene says they are just as fast as Mercedes on the straights.

Arrivabene was clear, however, that Ferrari's recent drop in form has more to do with its performance in slow speed corners than on the straights.

"It's nothing to do with the speed on the straights, because in Singapore and Russia we were quicker," he said.

"We were ahead in Singapore and in Russia we were near to our competitors.

"In Singapore and Russia, we were more or less like Mercedes on the straights. Where we lost was in the slow-speed corners. We have the data to confirm it."

Arrivabene added Ferrari's cornering problems have triggered further issues that mean it is not able to use its tyres as well as Mercedes.

"We are suffering in high- and medium-downforce tracks," he said. "Especially on slower corners we are in trouble.

"We miss load, and this problem leads us to have difficulties in the management of the tyres, because we cannot always put the tyres into the right operating window."


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13917 ... -knowledge

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:37 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139174/ferrari-issues-warning-over-battery-knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...


Why paranoid? This is supposed to be inside info, if they know that someone is leaking info, then isn't it an issue of concern? They've been burned before as we all know. Especially if they have advanced so much to have caught up and surpassed the Mercedes engine, THE engine to go for until this year, then they'd like to keep their design a secret from the other teams. If the FIA is leaking info, then that is a very big concern.

I don't mean that they are unjustly paranoid or that their paranoia is unreasonable. I'm just saying that they seem paranoid (justifiably so IMO) that their innovations are being leaked somehow. Perhaps "suspicious" would be a better word than "Paranoid"?

Yeah, I agree, if you managed to find an advantage somehow through an innovation, you don't want to lose it. I just wonder if the "leak" is through a customer team or the FIA. Or indeed from within the team. Also, why is it only Ferrari that has the two sensors and not the customer teams that use the same configuration? I genuinely do not remember from what transpired back then.

One thing to note is that they seem to have been breaking the rules before. It's one thing to complain that no one should have found out about it but the fact is that, if the installation of this sensor causes them to be unable to replicate their performance from before the sensor was in place, then they were obviously doing something illegal that they can no longer get away with.


Yeah, but it is not a certainty. It could be down to the recent upgrades they all brought in, maybe Mercedes nailed theirs and Ferrari didn't. Do we know the exact timeline of when the sensors got in and when their recent "performance slump" started? I honestly cannot remember and I do not have time to look now (bloody work deadlines). And we have to note that the performance slump, according to Arivabene, is not so bad, they are matching Mercedes to everything but the slow speed corners. It could also be down to the drivers performances (Vettel's driving is not exactly stellar lately). Too many variables


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Yeah, I agree, if you managed to find an advantage somehow through an innovation, you don't want to lose it. I just wonder if the "leak" is through a customer team or the FIA. Or indeed from within the team. Also, why is it only Ferrari that has the two sensors and not the customer teams that use the same configuration? I genuinely do not remember from what transpired back then.

One thing to note is that they seem to have been breaking the rules before. It's one thing to complain that no one should have found out about it but the fact is that, if the installation of this sensor causes them to be unable to replicate their performance from before the sensor was in place, then they were obviously doing something illegal that they can no longer get away with.


Yeah, but it is not a certainty. It could be down to the recent upgrades they all brought in, maybe Mercedes nailed theirs and Ferrari didn't. Do we know the exact timeline of when the sensors got in and when their recent "performance slump" started? I honestly cannot remember and I do not have time to look now (bloody work deadlines). And we have to note that the performance slump, according to Arivabene, is not so bad, they are matching Mercedes to everything but the slow speed corners. It could also be down to the drivers performances (Vettel's driving is not exactly stellar lately). Too many variables

They are now matching Mercedes in a straight line where, before, they were leaving them in the dust. Singapore was clearly before the sensor was installed IMO as they were still superior in straight line performance there. I think Russia is the point when things changed.

Their deficit in slow speed corners speaks volumes to Mercedes' development. Just a few rounds back at Spa, this was a celar area of advantage for Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:48 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139174/ferrari-issues-warning-over-battery-knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...


So there is a second sensor. Yesterday I think it was Crofty during fp2, saying very definitively that there was no second sensor on the car and that the whole story is false.

In any case it looks like the Ferrari straight line speed advantage has disappeared. Has Merc improved so much in the low speed corners that they are now ahead and Ferrari, which was ahead for so long in that area, are now lagging behind? I dunno...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:53 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Yeah, I agree, if you managed to find an advantage somehow through an innovation, you don't want to lose it. I just wonder if the "leak" is through a customer team or the FIA. Or indeed from within the team. Also, why is it only Ferrari that has the two sensors and not the customer teams that use the same configuration? I genuinely do not remember from what transpired back then.

One thing to note is that they seem to have been breaking the rules before. It's one thing to complain that no one should have found out about it but the fact is that, if the installation of this sensor causes them to be unable to replicate their performance from before the sensor was in place, then they were obviously doing something illegal that they can no longer get away with.


Yeah, but it is not a certainty. It could be down to the recent upgrades they all brought in, maybe Mercedes nailed theirs and Ferrari didn't. Do we know the exact timeline of when the sensors got in and when their recent "performance slump" started? I honestly cannot remember and I do not have time to look now (bloody work deadlines). And we have to note that the performance slump, according to Arivabene, is not so bad, they are matching Mercedes to everything but the slow speed corners. It could also be down to the drivers performances (Vettel's driving is not exactly stellar lately). Too many variables

They are now matching Mercedes in a straight line where, before, they were leaving them in the dust. Singapore was clearly before the sensor was installed IMO as they were still superior in straight line performance there. I think Russia is the point when things changed.

Their deficit in slow speed corners speaks volumes to Mercedes' development. Just a few rounds back at Spa, this was a celar area of advantage for Ferrari.

Well, that makes sense really, the straight line speed is directly linked to the speed you get out of the corners, isn't it? Better exit = better straight speed.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:54 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Long run pace on Supersofts & Softs concerning the top 6:

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com


Looks like Merc/Hamilton domination is imminent this weekend. I reckon only a dnf can keep Vettel’s hopes alive now.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:59 pm 
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As per F1's official website, here's the race pace of all teams:

Long-run pace deficit (seconds per lap) -
1 Mercedes
2 Ferrari +0.2s
3 Red Bull 0.4s
4= Sauber 1.s
4= Force India 1s
6 Haas 1.2s
7= Toro Rosso 1.4s
7= Renault 1.4s
9 Williams 1.5s
10 McLaren 1.6s

For more information:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.who's-hot-and-who's-not-after-day-1-in-japan.O5M69xoI6IiIKCosegigY.html

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Yeah, I agree, if you managed to find an advantage somehow through an innovation, you don't want to lose it. I just wonder if the "leak" is through a customer team or the FIA. Or indeed from within the team. Also, why is it only Ferrari that has the two sensors and not the customer teams that use the same configuration? I genuinely do not remember from what transpired back then.

One thing to note is that they seem to have been breaking the rules before. It's one thing to complain that no one should have found out about it but the fact is that, if the installation of this sensor causes them to be unable to replicate their performance from before the sensor was in place, then they were obviously doing something illegal that they can no longer get away with.


Yeah, but it is not a certainty. It could be down to the recent upgrades they all brought in, maybe Mercedes nailed theirs and Ferrari didn't. Do we know the exact timeline of when the sensors got in and when their recent "performance slump" started? I honestly cannot remember and I do not have time to look now (bloody work deadlines). And we have to note that the performance slump, according to Arivabene, is not so bad, they are matching Mercedes to everything but the slow speed corners. It could also be down to the drivers performances (Vettel's driving is not exactly stellar lately). Too many variables

They are now matching Mercedes in a straight line where, before, they were leaving them in the dust. Singapore was clearly before the sensor was installed IMO as they were still superior in straight line performance there. I think Russia is the point when things changed.

Their deficit in slow speed corners speaks volumes to Mercedes' development. Just a few rounds back at Spa, this was a celar area of advantage for Ferrari.

Well, that makes sense really, the straight line speed is directly linked to the speed you get out of the corners, isn't it? Better exit = better straight speed.

Not in the case of what we've seen with Ferrari this year. They have basically displayed an "afterburner" effect where their car just absolutely out-drags everyone else from 150kph on. That's what seems to have disappeared.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:06 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Well, that makes sense really, the straight line speed is directly linked to the speed you get out of the corners, isn't it? Better exit = better straight speed.

Not in the case of what we've seen with Ferrari this year. They have basically displayed an "afterburner" effect where their car just absolutely out-drags everyone else from 150kph on. That's what seems to have disappeared.

I have to admit that I am not aware of this "afterburner" effect.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Well, that makes sense really, the straight line speed is directly linked to the speed you get out of the corners, isn't it? Better exit = better straight speed.

Not in the case of what we've seen with Ferrari this year. They have basically displayed an "afterburner" effect where their car just absolutely out-drags everyone else from 150kph on. That's what seems to have disappeared.

I have to admit that I am not aware of this "afterburner" effect.


It's just a way to describe how the Ferrari pulled away from everyone else in a certain phase of acceleration. Not specifically heard it called that before either, but the teams first noticed it earlier in the year via the GPS data. The same teams have now noticed it is gone in the last two races... apparently.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:38 pm 
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It is amazing track and very demanding anyways so I hope it is dry all weekend. I am sure Ferrari will be closer to Mercedes tomorrow

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
It is amazing track and very demanding anyways so I hope it is dry all weekend. I am sure Ferrari will be closer to Mercedes tomorrow


Saturday is predicted to have scattered showers, so a good chance of rain in FP3 or qualifying. Sunday, the race is predicted to be dry.

Would not mind seeing the order get jumbled by rain in qualifying and then sort itself out Sunday on a dry track.

Edit: Just found that Sebastian Vettel has only led five laps at Suzuka during the turbo-hybrid era.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
pokerman wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Word is FIA have fitted a second sensor on the battery which has led to power drop although they deny it obviously https://formulaspy.com/formula-1/ferrar ... nsor-56810

A power drop from Singapore, I don't see it as the qualifying onboards showed Vettel's Ferrari accelerating faster out of the corners than Hamilton's Mercedes, I think people are making guesses for the reasons behind the turn around in the relative performance between Ferrari and Mercedes?


from what scarborough was saying its not coming out of corners as such, its that they were getting a 2nd surge from the mguk further down the straights where they were "cleverly" getting extra power from either the mguh and/or battery to the k. now all the cars have gps they could all see what was happening and now its not happening, as much anyway. arrivebene claiming they are as fast on the straights as before but losing out in slow n mid speed corners. is that because now they have had to trim downforce? and if the gps isnt showing the same surge they have clearly had to change the system.

So in Singapore we were just witnessing trimmed downforce rather than extra electrical energy?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Yeah, I agree, if you managed to find an advantage somehow through an innovation, you don't want to lose it. I just wonder if the "leak" is through a customer team or the FIA. Or indeed from within the team. Also, why is it only Ferrari that has the two sensors and not the customer teams that use the same configuration? I genuinely do not remember from what transpired back then.

One thing to note is that they seem to have been breaking the rules before. It's one thing to complain that no one should have found out about it but the fact is that, if the installation of this sensor causes them to be unable to replicate their performance from before the sensor was in place, then they were obviously doing something illegal that they can no longer get away with.


Yeah, but it is not a certainty. It could be down to the recent upgrades they all brought in, maybe Mercedes nailed theirs and Ferrari didn't. Do we know the exact timeline of when the sensors got in and when their recent "performance slump" started? I honestly cannot remember and I do not have time to look now (bloody work deadlines). And we have to note that the performance slump, according to Arivabene, is not so bad, they are matching Mercedes to everything but the slow speed corners. It could also be down to the drivers performances (Vettel's driving is not exactly stellar lately). Too many variables

They are now matching Mercedes in a straight line where, before, they were leaving them in the dust. Singapore was clearly before the sensor was installed IMO as they were still superior in straight line performance there. I think Russia is the point when things changed.

Their deficit in slow speed corners speaks volumes to Mercedes' development. Just a few rounds back at Spa, this was a celar area of advantage for Ferrari.

Well, that makes sense really, the straight line speed is directly linked to the speed you get out of the corners, isn't it? Better exit = better straight speed.

Judging from Singapore that wouldn't be so, despite being slower in the corners the Ferrari was able to out drag the Mercedes down the straights.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:02 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139174/ferrari-issues-warning-over-battery-knowledge

It now seems that Ferrari are acknowledging the second sensor but have gotten paranoid about leaked information and spying. The plot thickens...


Why paranoid? This is supposed to be inside info, if they know that someone is leaking info, then isn't it an issue of concern? They've been burned before as we all know. Especially if they have advanced so much to have caught up and surpassed the Mercedes engine, THE engine to go for until this year, then they'd like to keep their design a secret from the other teams. If the FIA is leaking info, then that is a very big concern.

I don't mean that they are unjustly paranoid or that their paranoia is unreasonable. I'm just saying that they seem paranoid (justifiably so IMO) that their innovations are being leaked somehow. Perhaps "suspicious" would be a better word than "Paranoid"?

Yeah, I agree, if you managed to find an advantage somehow through an innovation, you don't want to lose it. I just wonder if the "leak" is through a customer team or the FIA. Or indeed from within the team. Also, why is it only Ferrari that has the two sensors and not the customer teams that use the same configuration? I genuinely do not remember from what transpired back then.

One thing to note is that they seem to have been breaking the rules before. It's one thing to complain that no one should have found out about it but the fact is that, if the installation of this sensor causes them to be unable to replicate their performance from before the sensor was in place, then they were obviously doing something illegal that they can no longer get away with.


Do you have proof that they were breaking the rules? That they were "obviously doing something illegal"? If so I just have missed it. You are staying it as fact, not opinion, so it must be true.

BTW, exploiting grey areas is not necessarily breaking rules...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:58 am 
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Overcast weather but the wind speed has picked up!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:17 am 
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It's raining harder, especially in the Spoon curve!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:04 am 
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Hulk crashed in the esses. Looks bad which would include a gearbox change:

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Source - http://www.imgur.com


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Last edited by UnlikeUday on Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:05 am 
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PF3 done:

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Source - https://scontent.fbom16-1.fna.fbcdn.net ... e=5C15E161

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:09 am 
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RED FLAG - Ericsson hit the barrier


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:22 am 
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starting to rain again


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:37 am 
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Mercedes faster on Softs when compared to Ferrari on Supersofts!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:37 am 
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Dan closer if not a bit of an edge to Max this weekend. Had to expect Dan to get a problem.

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Aussie :: Ricciardo


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:45 am 
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Riccardo out with car problems


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:45 am 
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Red Bull & Ricciardo don't get along well anymore!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:46 am 
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both TR in Q3. Who'd have thought it?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:47 am 
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Hamilton only driver to have gone through on Softs, according to Dutch TV. And he's still 2 tenths faster than Vettel.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:47 am 
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Wow Dan is not a happy man. I've never seen a reaction like that from him before.

I bet he cannot wait to leave this team.

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