j man wrote:
Fiki wrote:
The difference between the Vettel defence against Hamilton's overtake attempt and that of Schumacher versus Barrichello's is fundamental: Barrichello got alongside. Hamilton was unable to get there before the gap he needed was gone. Add to that the fact that Vettel went to the right before Hamilton (see my earlier post), and it is clear that he was simply too late; Vettel's defence was perfect. But also, he left more than a car's width of space to his left when he moved back towards the racing line! Instead of breaking the rules, this was textbook behaviour. Vettel had the right to do what he did, and he left room. I'm surprised that Hamilton seems to have forgotten this exact situation was demonstrated to him on two occasions over the last few years. He, more than anybody should have known better, because he got it wrong both times.
I don't understand why you speak of a massive speed differential; Hamilton didn't have the speed to try what he wanted to do, or he would have gotten alongside, and Vettel would have had to stop his defensive move. So, while I loathe DRS, this has nothing to do with this incident.
A final point for GiantHogWeed; the stewards didn't stop investigating it, or we wouldn't have had their official report. They investigated it, and concluded Vettel didn't break the rules. Hence no action. I'm all for such consistency!
A fair argument, but I don't think it should be a simple as the attacking driver having to be alongside before being entitled to space, as the point at which they are committed to the move occurs some time before then. At the point at which Hamilton had decided to pass on the right hand side, and also at the point at which it was too late to switch to the left, the gap was there so Hamilton was entitled to go for it. Therefore Vettel's defensive move was too late.
You can't be committed to something before you have started your move.
We can't force a defending driver to wait for whatever an attacker is showing as intent, before we allow him to (re)act.
I just checked the recording - again - and it is quite clear from Hamilton's on-board, that it is Vettel who moves to the inside before Hamilton does. So Hamilton was not committed to the move. He may have decided beforehand that he would make his attempt on the inside, but that is something different.
Quite simply, before Vettel made his move, there was only a gap on the inside. He then moved to close off the inside and Hamilton followed. That was his choice, though he could have gone for the opening gap on the outside. He didn't. And then he found he didn't have the speed to get into the inside gap before it was gone.
I can imagine Hamilton's frustration, but as I wrote, this isn't the first time he experiences this situation.
j man wrote:
Does this make defending on a straight almost impossible? Yes it does, and it's why overtaking via DRS feels so contrived because there is very little the defending driver can do about it. I re-iterate that if we start allowing that sort of blocking move against a car breezing past with DRS, we're going to see some horrendous accidents.
Whether by luck or judgement, at least Schumacher left just about a car's width between himself and the wall.
I agree almost entirely, defending is now near-impossible because of the choices made for F1 on the aerodynamics front. But that is something the drivers have to cope with.
I had to look again whether Hamilton was on a DRS-stretch there (he was), but it doesn't really change anything where the rules are concerned. Vettel was perfectly entitled to defend as he did. Hamilton was simply late because he made the wrong decision. And if there had been an accident, it would have been entirely Hamilton's fault. Whether he would have been penalized is another matter.
We simply can't say that the Schumacher-Barrichello situation was somehow similar. Barrichello was alongside and Schumacher HAD TO give him room. An accident would have been entirely his fault.
Having said that, I still don't understand why the drivers and the FIA chose to remove the rule about being alongside from the rulebook again. It is hard to see whether a driver is alongside you, if he is still at the rear wheels. But these people are supposed to be the best drivers in the world. Perhaps the reason was that it is forbidden to crowd somebody off the track as the rules say. Which then begs the question why Mr Whiting explained it is sometimes allowed...