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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I was replying to someone throwing shade on Hamilton and the sandbagging would I guess refer to Vettel not being the fastest through qualifying only being as quick as Hamilton in Q2, why are you quoting out of context.

Then you quote someone you had a spat with from which he left the site again out of context, do you not think perhaps the lol indicated a hint of sarcasm in a season were it seemed everytime Hamilton qualified on pole was because of a special qualifying mode?

is that so much different to this year? Last year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and he was accused by you of sandbagging in Q2. This year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and you're miffed because you want everyone to give him unconditional praise. I can't help but feel there's a double standard here.

I didn't quote out of context. I quoted in full.

Sandbagging because Ferrari were the favourites going into qualifying, do you seriously believe that Hamilton was sandbagging?

No I don't think either were sandbagging and I'm not the one making that claim. I'm pointing out that it seems to be a double standard that when Vettel pulls out a much quicker Q3 lap he must have been sandbagging, but when Hamilton does it he's put in a magical performance. I don't really see the difference, myself.

I'm not sure you know what sandbagging means, it's masking the perfomance of the car so whenever the fastest car goes slower than a few cars like Vettel did in Q1 and Q2 then that's sandbagging, Hamilton went into Q3 not expecting to be on pole, no one at Mercedes expected it, in fact the person that thought he was going to be on pole was Vettel.

I know what sandbagging means. But I don't see any difference between the two performances to warrant one being dismissed as sandbagging with the other lauded as an exceptional drive. To me it looks very much like a double standard depending on who the driver in question is


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I was replying to someone throwing shade on Hamilton and the sandbagging would I guess refer to Vettel not being the fastest through qualifying only being as quick as Hamilton in Q2, why are you quoting out of context.

Then you quote someone you had a spat with from which he left the site again out of context, do you not think perhaps the lol indicated a hint of sarcasm in a season were it seemed everytime Hamilton qualified on pole was because of a special qualifying mode?

is that so much different to this year? Last year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and he was accused by you of sandbagging in Q2. This year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and you're miffed because you want everyone to give him unconditional praise. I can't help but feel there's a double standard here.

I didn't quote out of context. I quoted in full.

Sandbagging because Ferrari were the favourites going into qualifying, do you seriously believe that Hamilton was sandbagging?

No I don't think either were sandbagging and I'm not the one making that claim. I'm pointing out that it seems to be a double standard that when Vettel pulls out a much quicker Q3 lap he must have been sandbagging, but when Hamilton does it he's put in a magical performance. I don't really see the difference, myself.

I'm not sure you know what sandbagging means, it's masking the perfomance of the car so whenever the fastest car goes slower than a few cars like Vettel did in Q1 and Q2 then that's sandbagging, Hamilton went into Q3 not expecting to be on pole, no one at Mercedes expected it, in fact the person that thought he was going to be on pole was Vettel.

I know what sandbagging means. But I don't see any difference between the two performances to warrant one being dismissed as sandbagging with the other lauded as an exceptional drive. To me it looks very much like a double standard depending on who the driver in question is


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
is that so much different to this year? Last year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and he was accused by you of sandbagging in Q2. This year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and you're miffed because you want everyone to give him unconditional praise. I can't help but feel there's a double standard here.

I didn't quote out of context. I quoted in full.

Sandbagging because Ferrari were the favourites going into qualifying, do you seriously believe that Hamilton was sandbagging?

No I don't think either were sandbagging and I'm not the one making that claim. I'm pointing out that it seems to be a double standard that when Vettel pulls out a much quicker Q3 lap he must have been sandbagging, but when Hamilton does it he's put in a magical performance. I don't really see the difference, myself.

I'm not sure you know what sandbagging means, it's masking the perfomance of the car so whenever the fastest car goes slower than a few cars like Vettel did in Q1 and Q2 then that's sandbagging, Hamilton went into Q3 not expecting to be on pole, no one at Mercedes expected it, in fact the person that thought he was going to be on pole was Vettel.

I know what sandbagging means. But I don't see any difference between the two performances to warrant one being dismissed as sandbagging with the other lauded as an exceptional drive. To me it looks very much like a double standard depending on who the driver in question is

No what it is, is you posting a quote without the context to what I was replying to, then you not knowing the difference between an expected pole and unexpected pole.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7375
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes it must have been as simple as that

I think it's safe to say it was both, don't you?

Because Hamilton didn't make any mistakes we infer the car made it easy?

I never said that. But it's unreasonable to suggest that Hamilton was driving around a difficult car when, quite clearly, no such thing was happening. If you want to watch someone driving around a difficult car I would refer you to a 2014 onboard from the Ferrari. It's not taking anything away from Hamilton to say his car was set up well. Hamilton always praises his team after a win or a pole: why can't his fans also accept that his team is important?

Were did I say that Hamilton was driving a difficult car?

Shoe on the other foot Wolff said that Hamilton did a lap time that they thought was not possible on their simulations but we will go with Hamilton not making any mistakes, as in driving close to the perfect lap, as being down to the car being well set up as in well it wasn't that hard to do.

Bear in mind I am replying here to people who have a history of not wanting to give Hamilton credit for anything.


Hahahahahahahahahahaha, nice one! Made me laugh


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Sandbagging because Ferrari were the favourites going into qualifying, do you seriously believe that Hamilton was sandbagging?

No I don't think either were sandbagging and I'm not the one making that claim. I'm pointing out that it seems to be a double standard that when Vettel pulls out a much quicker Q3 lap he must have been sandbagging, but when Hamilton does it he's put in a magical performance. I don't really see the difference, myself.

I'm not sure you know what sandbagging means, it's masking the perfomance of the car so whenever the fastest car goes slower than a few cars like Vettel did in Q1 and Q2 then that's sandbagging, Hamilton went into Q3 not expecting to be on pole, no one at Mercedes expected it, in fact the person that thought he was going to be on pole was Vettel.

I know what sandbagging means. But I don't see any difference between the two performances to warrant one being dismissed as sandbagging with the other lauded as an exceptional drive. To me it looks very much like a double standard depending on who the driver in question is

No what it is, is you posting a quote without the context to what I was replying to, then you not knowing the difference between an expected pole and unexpected pole.
You dismissed Vettel's performance as sandbagging, which is the only relevant part of the discussion since that's the only time you actually mentioned him. There is no missing context. This time, in almost identical circumstances, you describe it very differently and the only real difference was because it was Hamilton who pulled it out of the hat this time, whereas it was Vettel who did it last time. Either they were both sandbagging, or neither was. The way you describe almost identical circumstances so very differently just looks like the whole thing is driven by bias, not objectivity. And then you complain because you feel that Hamilton is not getting the recognition you feel he deserves, when you weren't exactly doing that yourself last time, which is why I stand by my initial view that there's more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole thing


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Posts: 31231
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
No I don't think either were sandbagging and I'm not the one making that claim. I'm pointing out that it seems to be a double standard that when Vettel pulls out a much quicker Q3 lap he must have been sandbagging, but when Hamilton does it he's put in a magical performance. I don't really see the difference, myself.

I'm not sure you know what sandbagging means, it's masking the perfomance of the car so whenever the fastest car goes slower than a few cars like Vettel did in Q1 and Q2 then that's sandbagging, Hamilton went into Q3 not expecting to be on pole, no one at Mercedes expected it, in fact the person that thought he was going to be on pole was Vettel.

I know what sandbagging means. But I don't see any difference between the two performances to warrant one being dismissed as sandbagging with the other lauded as an exceptional drive. To me it looks very much like a double standard depending on who the driver in question is

No what it is, is you posting a quote without the context to what I was replying to, then you not knowing the difference between an expected pole and unexpected pole.
You dismissed Vettel's performance as sandbagging, which is the only relevant part of the discussion since that's the only time you actually mentioned him. There is no missing context. This time, in almost identical circumstances, you describe it very differently and the only real difference was because it was Hamilton who pulled it out of the hat this time, whereas it was Vettel who did it last time. Either they were both sandbagging, or neither was. The way you describe almost identical circumstances so very differently just looks like the whole thing is driven by bias, not objectivity. And then you complain because you feel that Hamilton is not getting the recognition you feel he deserves, when you weren't exactly doing that yourself last time, which is why I stand by my initial view that there's more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole thing

Why don't you quote the post I was replying to?

Hamilton is getting the recognition he deserves from the majority of people, what's wrong with calling out negative posts?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I think it's safe to say it was both, don't you?

Because Hamilton didn't make any mistakes we infer the car made it easy?

I never said that. But it's unreasonable to suggest that Hamilton was driving around a difficult car when, quite clearly, no such thing was happening. If you want to watch someone driving around a difficult car I would refer you to a 2014 onboard from the Ferrari. It's not taking anything away from Hamilton to say his car was set up well. Hamilton always praises his team after a win or a pole: why can't his fans also accept that his team is important?

Were did I say that Hamilton was driving a difficult car?

Shoe on the other foot Wolff said that Hamilton did a lap time that they thought was not possible on their simulations but we will go with Hamilton not making any mistakes, as in driving close to the perfect lap, as being down to the car being well set up as in well it wasn't that hard to do.

Bear in mind I am replying here to people who have a history of not wanting to give Hamilton credit for anything.


Hahahahahahahahahahaha, nice one! Made me laugh

:)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure you know what sandbagging means, it's masking the perfomance of the car so whenever the fastest car goes slower than a few cars like Vettel did in Q1 and Q2 then that's sandbagging, Hamilton went into Q3 not expecting to be on pole, no one at Mercedes expected it, in fact the person that thought he was going to be on pole was Vettel.

I know what sandbagging means. But I don't see any difference between the two performances to warrant one being dismissed as sandbagging with the other lauded as an exceptional drive. To me it looks very much like a double standard depending on who the driver in question is

No what it is, is you posting a quote without the context to what I was replying to, then you not knowing the difference between an expected pole and unexpected pole.
You dismissed Vettel's performance as sandbagging, which is the only relevant part of the discussion since that's the only time you actually mentioned him. There is no missing context. This time, in almost identical circumstances, you describe it very differently and the only real difference was because it was Hamilton who pulled it out of the hat this time, whereas it was Vettel who did it last time. Either they were both sandbagging, or neither was. The way you describe almost identical circumstances so very differently just looks like the whole thing is driven by bias, not objectivity. And then you complain because you feel that Hamilton is not getting the recognition you feel he deserves, when you weren't exactly doing that yourself last time, which is why I stand by my initial view that there's more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole thing

Why don't you quote the post I was replying to?

Hamilton is getting the recognition he deserves from the majority of people, what's wrong with calling out negative posts?

I don't understand why you don't post it if you're that worked up about it? Do you think it would change anything about the points I'm making? I don't.

Incidentally, I tried searching for it again so I could repost and demonstrate how irrelevant it is but the white pages made me lose the will to live. Will have to leave it to another time when the forum finally decides to behave.

re: the calling out of posts, the issue there is the fact you are calling out people when you are guilty of having done what you are complaining about in others. I don't think you are in a position to complain when you do it yourself


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:59 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Bear in mind I am replying here to people who have a history of not wanting to give Hamilton credit for anything.

There's not giving Hamilton credit, and then there's trying to give only Hamilton credit. Neither one is reasonable.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:15 am 
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Posts: 31231
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bear in mind I am replying here to people who have a history of not wanting to give Hamilton credit for anything.

There's not giving Hamilton credit, and then there's trying to give only Hamilton credit. Neither one is reasonable.

You've not seen the credit given to Verstappen also from me?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 am 
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Posts: 31231
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No what it is, is you posting a quote without the context to what I was replying to, then you not knowing the difference between an expected pole and unexpected pole.
You dismissed Vettel's performance as sandbagging, which is the only relevant part of the discussion since that's the only time you actually mentioned him. There is no missing context. This time, in almost identical circumstances, you describe it very differently and the only real difference was because it was Hamilton who pulled it out of the hat this time, whereas it was Vettel who did it last time. Either they were both sandbagging, or neither was. The way you describe almost identical circumstances so very differently just looks like the whole thing is driven by bias, not objectivity. And then you complain because you feel that Hamilton is not getting the recognition you feel he deserves, when you weren't exactly doing that yourself last time, which is why I stand by my initial view that there's more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole thing

Why don't you quote the post I was replying to?

Hamilton is getting the recognition he deserves from the majority of people, what's wrong with calling out negative posts?

I don't understand why you don't post it if you're that worked up about it? Do you think it would change anything about the points I'm making? I don't.

Incidentally, I tried searching for it again so I could repost and demonstrate how irrelevant it is but the white pages made me lose the will to live. Will have to leave it to another time when the forum finally decides to behave.

re: the calling out of posts, the issue there is the fact you are calling out people when you are guilty of having done what you are complaining about in others. I don't think you are in a position to complain when you do it yourself

MasterRacer wrote:
That's how you do it under incredible pressure. Two insanely great laps from Seb to put it on pole, having trailed the Red Bulls all weekend. It's his razor sharp consistency that will win him this title.

Hamilton struggled to shine yet again when the Mercedes power advantage is taken away from him.

Both Red Bull drivers were fantastic too with almost nothing between them run after run.

It should be a fun race tomorrow :)

None other than my favourite poster :lol:

Let's say I was goaded into replying, wasn't there a post somewhere about Vettel fans having more class than Hamilton fans?

Anyway I went into the weekend expecting Vettel would be fastest hoping the Bulls could give him a problem whilst the Mercs struggled much like this year, everyone went half a second quicker in Q3 apart from Vettel who went just over a second quicker and easily took pole after only being 4th quickest in Q2 and only 0.048s quicker than Hamilton, I think it was fair to say he was holding something back?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No what it is, is you posting a quote without the context to what I was replying to, then you not knowing the difference between an expected pole and unexpected pole.
You dismissed Vettel's performance as sandbagging, which is the only relevant part of the discussion since that's the only time you actually mentioned him. There is no missing context. This time, in almost identical circumstances, you describe it very differently and the only real difference was because it was Hamilton who pulled it out of the hat this time, whereas it was Vettel who did it last time. Either they were both sandbagging, or neither was. The way you describe almost identical circumstances so very differently just looks like the whole thing is driven by bias, not objectivity. And then you complain because you feel that Hamilton is not getting the recognition you feel he deserves, when you weren't exactly doing that yourself last time, which is why I stand by my initial view that there's more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole thing

Why don't you quote the post I was replying to?

Hamilton is getting the recognition he deserves from the majority of people, what's wrong with calling out negative posts?

I don't understand why you don't post it if you're that worked up about it? Do you think it would change anything about the points I'm making? I don't.

Incidentally, I tried searching for it again so I could repost and demonstrate how irrelevant it is but the white pages made me lose the will to live. Will have to leave it to another time when the forum finally decides to behave.

re: the calling out of posts, the issue there is the fact you are calling out people when you are guilty of having done what you are complaining about in others. I don't think you are in a position to complain when you do it yourself

MasterRacer wrote:
That's how you do it under incredible pressure. Two insanely great laps from Seb to put it on pole, having trailed the Red Bulls all weekend. It's his razor sharp consistency that will win him this title.

Hamilton struggled to shine yet again when the Mercedes power advantage is taken away from him.

Both Red Bull drivers were fantastic too with almost nothing between them run after run.

It should be a fun race tomorrow :)

None other than my favourite poster :lol:

Let's say I was goaded into replying, wasn't there a post somewhere about Vettel fans having more class than Hamilton fans?

Anyway I went into the weekend expecting Vettel would be fastest hoping the Bulls could give him a problem whilst the Mercs struggled much like this year, everyone went half a second quicker in Q3 apart from Vettel who went just over a second quicker and easily took pole after only being 4th quickest in Q2 and only 0.048s quicker than Hamilton, I think it was fair to say he was holding something back?
Hamilton went 1.3s faster in Q3 than he had done in Q2, where he was beaten by Kimi. Last year Vettel improved by just over 1 second from Q2 to Q3, after being beaten by Max by an almost identical amount to that which Hamilton dropped to Kimi this year. I don't understand the logic that says Hamilton definitely wasn't holding anything back but Vettel must have been. Does this seem consistent to you? They're practically carbon copies of each other.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm
Posts: 3679
JN23 wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Not a lot of love for the Softs from Ferrari I see


No one is going to use that tyre in the race really.

It's like using the white striped tyre when the red and yellow striped are available.


A bold statement - and so very wrong.


:lol:


lol


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31231
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
You dismissed Vettel's performance as sandbagging, which is the only relevant part of the discussion since that's the only time you actually mentioned him. There is no missing context. This time, in almost identical circumstances, you describe it very differently and the only real difference was because it was Hamilton who pulled it out of the hat this time, whereas it was Vettel who did it last time. Either they were both sandbagging, or neither was. The way you describe almost identical circumstances so very differently just looks like the whole thing is driven by bias, not objectivity. And then you complain because you feel that Hamilton is not getting the recognition you feel he deserves, when you weren't exactly doing that yourself last time, which is why I stand by my initial view that there's more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole thing

Why don't you quote the post I was replying to?

Hamilton is getting the recognition he deserves from the majority of people, what's wrong with calling out negative posts?

I don't understand why you don't post it if you're that worked up about it? Do you think it would change anything about the points I'm making? I don't.

Incidentally, I tried searching for it again so I could repost and demonstrate how irrelevant it is but the white pages made me lose the will to live. Will have to leave it to another time when the forum finally decides to behave.

re: the calling out of posts, the issue there is the fact you are calling out people when you are guilty of having done what you are complaining about in others. I don't think you are in a position to complain when you do it yourself

MasterRacer wrote:
That's how you do it under incredible pressure. Two insanely great laps from Seb to put it on pole, having trailed the Red Bulls all weekend. It's his razor sharp consistency that will win him this title.

Hamilton struggled to shine yet again when the Mercedes power advantage is taken away from him.

Both Red Bull drivers were fantastic too with almost nothing between them run after run.

It should be a fun race tomorrow :)

None other than my favourite poster :lol:

Let's say I was goaded into replying, wasn't there a post somewhere about Vettel fans having more class than Hamilton fans?

Anyway I went into the weekend expecting Vettel would be fastest hoping the Bulls could give him a problem whilst the Mercs struggled much like this year, everyone went half a second quicker in Q3 apart from Vettel who went just over a second quicker and easily took pole after only being 4th quickest in Q2 and only 0.048s quicker than Hamilton, I think it was fair to say he was holding something back?
Hamilton went 1.3s faster in Q3 than he had done in Q2, where he was beaten by Kimi. Last year Vettel improved by just over 1 second from Q2 to Q3, after being beaten by Max by an almost identical amount to that which Hamilton dropped to Kimi this year. I don't understand the logic that says Hamilton definitely wasn't holding anything back but Vettel must have been. Does this seem consistent to you? They're practically carbon copies of each other.

You don't understand the concept of what is expected and what is unexpected, what Vettel did was no surprise, what Hamilton did surprised everyone, it was a lap out of the blue that Hamilton didn't expect and shocked his team.

Wolff acclaimed it as the best lap that he has seen Hamilton do and it's been generally highly acclaimed, I don't remember that with Vettel's lap, you not seeing the difference I think is more on you.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Why don't you quote the post I was replying to?

Hamilton is getting the recognition he deserves from the majority of people, what's wrong with calling out negative posts?

I don't understand why you don't post it if you're that worked up about it? Do you think it would change anything about the points I'm making? I don't.

Incidentally, I tried searching for it again so I could repost and demonstrate how irrelevant it is but the white pages made me lose the will to live. Will have to leave it to another time when the forum finally decides to behave.

re: the calling out of posts, the issue there is the fact you are calling out people when you are guilty of having done what you are complaining about in others. I don't think you are in a position to complain when you do it yourself

MasterRacer wrote:
That's how you do it under incredible pressure. Two insanely great laps from Seb to put it on pole, having trailed the Red Bulls all weekend. It's his razor sharp consistency that will win him this title.

Hamilton struggled to shine yet again when the Mercedes power advantage is taken away from him.

Both Red Bull drivers were fantastic too with almost nothing between them run after run.

It should be a fun race tomorrow :)

None other than my favourite poster :lol:

Let's say I was goaded into replying, wasn't there a post somewhere about Vettel fans having more class than Hamilton fans?

Anyway I went into the weekend expecting Vettel would be fastest hoping the Bulls could give him a problem whilst the Mercs struggled much like this year, everyone went half a second quicker in Q3 apart from Vettel who went just over a second quicker and easily took pole after only being 4th quickest in Q2 and only 0.048s quicker than Hamilton, I think it was fair to say he was holding something back?
Hamilton went 1.3s faster in Q3 than he had done in Q2, where he was beaten by Kimi. Last year Vettel improved by just over 1 second from Q2 to Q3, after being beaten by Max by an almost identical amount to that which Hamilton dropped to Kimi this year. I don't understand the logic that says Hamilton definitely wasn't holding anything back but Vettel must have been. Does this seem consistent to you? They're practically carbon copies of each other.

You don't understand the concept of what is expected and what is unexpected, what Vettel did was no surprise, what Hamilton did surprised everyone, it was a lap out of the blue that Hamilton didn't expect and shocked his team.

Wolff acclaimed it as the best lap that he has seen Hamilton do and it's been generally highly acclaimed, I don't remember that with Vettel's lap, you not seeing the difference I think is more on you.

Wolff has said Hamilton's performance is the "best ever" on more than one occasion. I get that he likes him, but it's not exactly a shocking confession.

So basically you're admitting that it's purely subjective. And the fact is that you like Hamilton, so everything he does is magical, while you don't like Vettel, so everything he does must be down to (insert excuse here). I'm saying the same criteria should be applied to both and the fact you still insist it's different despite all the evidence to the contrary tells me you're not exactly being objective here. If Vettel was sandbagging, then so was Hamilton. Or neither were


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:37 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I don't understand why you don't post it if you're that worked up about it? Do you think it would change anything about the points I'm making? I don't.

Incidentally, I tried searching for it again so I could repost and demonstrate how irrelevant it is but the white pages made me lose the will to live. Will have to leave it to another time when the forum finally decides to behave.

re: the calling out of posts, the issue there is the fact you are calling out people when you are guilty of having done what you are complaining about in others. I don't think you are in a position to complain when you do it yourself

MasterRacer wrote:
That's how you do it under incredible pressure. Two insanely great laps from Seb to put it on pole, having trailed the Red Bulls all weekend. It's his razor sharp consistency that will win him this title.

Hamilton struggled to shine yet again when the Mercedes power advantage is taken away from him.

Both Red Bull drivers were fantastic too with almost nothing between them run after run.

It should be a fun race tomorrow :)

None other than my favourite poster :lol:

Let's say I was goaded into replying, wasn't there a post somewhere about Vettel fans having more class than Hamilton fans?

Anyway I went into the weekend expecting Vettel would be fastest hoping the Bulls could give him a problem whilst the Mercs struggled much like this year, everyone went half a second quicker in Q3 apart from Vettel who went just over a second quicker and easily took pole after only being 4th quickest in Q2 and only 0.048s quicker than Hamilton, I think it was fair to say he was holding something back?
Hamilton went 1.3s faster in Q3 than he had done in Q2, where he was beaten by Kimi. Last year Vettel improved by just over 1 second from Q2 to Q3, after being beaten by Max by an almost identical amount to that which Hamilton dropped to Kimi this year. I don't understand the logic that says Hamilton definitely wasn't holding anything back but Vettel must have been. Does this seem consistent to you? They're practically carbon copies of each other.

You don't understand the concept of what is expected and what is unexpected, what Vettel did was no surprise, what Hamilton did surprised everyone, it was a lap out of the blue that Hamilton didn't expect and shocked his team.

Wolff acclaimed it as the best lap that he has seen Hamilton do and it's been generally highly acclaimed, I don't remember that with Vettel's lap, you not seeing the difference I think is more on you.

Wolff has said Hamilton's performance is the "best ever" on more than one occasion. I get that he likes him, but it's not exactly a shocking confession.

So basically you're admitting that it's purely subjective. And the fact is that you like Hamilton, so everything he does is magical, while you don't like Vettel, so everything he does must be down to (insert excuse here). I'm saying the same criteria should be applied to both and the fact you still insist it's different despite all the evidence to the contrary tells me you're not exactly being objective here. If Vettel was sandbagging, then so was Hamilton. Or neither were

First of all I only posted because of the classless way the guy, a Vettel fan, posted about Hamilton, secondly Hamilton's lap has been praised by all and sundry and highly praised at that, the lap of the season to quote a few, but not by you who questioned why was it incredible, sort of missing the fact that such a word was used for Verstappen as well but for some reason you didn't want to question that?

I'm the Vettel hater, all the praise for Hamilton's lap and then the negative post from you asking how was Hamilton's lap any better than Kimi's lap in Monza or I guess you could pick any qualifying lap but then again what's new, I was told to leave well alone and this is my last post on the matter now.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:42 pm 
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Posts: 25158
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You don't understand the concept of what is expected and what is unexpected, what Vettel did was no surprise, what Hamilton did surprised everyone, it was a lap out of the blue that Hamilton didn't expect and shocked his team.

Wolff acclaimed it as the best lap that he has seen Hamilton do and it's been generally highly acclaimed, I don't remember that with Vettel's lap, you not seeing the difference I think is more on you.

Wolff has said Hamilton's performance is the "best ever" on more than one occasion. I get that he likes him, but it's not exactly a shocking confession.

So basically you're admitting that it's purely subjective. And the fact is that you like Hamilton, so everything he does is magical, while you don't like Vettel, so everything he does must be down to (insert excuse here). I'm saying the same criteria should be applied to both and the fact you still insist it's different despite all the evidence to the contrary tells me you're not exactly being objective here. If Vettel was sandbagging, then so was Hamilton. Or neither were

First of all I only posted because of the classless way the guy, a Vettel fan, posted about Hamilton, secondly Hamilton's lap has been praised by all and sundry and highly praised at that, the lap of the season to quote a few, but not by you who questioned why was it incredible, sort of missing the fact that such a word was used for Verstappen as well but for some reason you didn't want to question that?

I'm the Vettel hater, all the praise for Hamilton's lap and then the negative post from you asking how was Hamilton's lap any better than Kimi's lap in Monza or I guess you could pick any qualifying lap but then again what's new, I was told to leave well alone and this is my last post on the matter now.

If someone has such a large gap between qualifying sessions, then clearly they were leaving time on the table with the slower lap. This is uncontestable. But you appear to making a distinction on which driver was doing that deliberately - i.e. sandbagging - based purely on your opinion of the driver. You can try and deflect from that all you want but whichever way you cut it you are applying different standards to the two. I've provided evidence to show that the two situations are virtually identical, so the only difference is in the perception.

You cannot simply ignore evidence just because you don't like it. I wouldn't go so far as to say you are a Vettel hater, but it's clear that you don't respect his abilities in the same way you do Hamilton's. Which is fine, by the way, but you can't deny that it affects your judgement in their respect performances and your refusal to acknowledge that even as a possibility doesn't do you any favours. You don't have to answer this, of course, but please don't pretend that you're being the voice of reason here when all the evidence suggest that you are treating Hamilton and Vettel very differently


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:36 am 
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THIS is what I've been waiting for.

How Hamilton Beat Verstappen to Pole | 2018 Singapore Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JJLOMyjBf4#

... Isn't that Ricciardo though? I am confused.


***

Yeh it is RIC. Nice muck-up from the official F1 youtube channel folk.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31231
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You don't understand the concept of what is expected and what is unexpected, what Vettel did was no surprise, what Hamilton did surprised everyone, it was a lap out of the blue that Hamilton didn't expect and shocked his team.

Wolff acclaimed it as the best lap that he has seen Hamilton do and it's been generally highly acclaimed, I don't remember that with Vettel's lap, you not seeing the difference I think is more on you.

Wolff has said Hamilton's performance is the "best ever" on more than one occasion. I get that he likes him, but it's not exactly a shocking confession.

So basically you're admitting that it's purely subjective. And the fact is that you like Hamilton, so everything he does is magical, while you don't like Vettel, so everything he does must be down to (insert excuse here). I'm saying the same criteria should be applied to both and the fact you still insist it's different despite all the evidence to the contrary tells me you're not exactly being objective here. If Vettel was sandbagging, then so was Hamilton. Or neither were

First of all I only posted because of the classless way the guy, a Vettel fan, posted about Hamilton, secondly Hamilton's lap has been praised by all and sundry and highly praised at that, the lap of the season to quote a few, but not by you who questioned why was it incredible, sort of missing the fact that such a word was used for Verstappen as well but for some reason you didn't want to question that?

I'm the Vettel hater, all the praise for Hamilton's lap and then the negative post from you asking how was Hamilton's lap any better than Kimi's lap in Monza or I guess you could pick any qualifying lap but then again what's new, I was told to leave well alone and this is my last post on the matter now.

If someone has such a large gap between qualifying sessions, then clearly they were leaving time on the table with the slower lap. This is uncontestable. But you appear to making a distinction on which driver was doing that deliberately - i.e. sandbagging - based purely on your opinion of the driver. You can try and deflect from that all you want but whichever way you cut it you are applying different standards to the two. I've provided evidence to show that the two situations are virtually identical, so the only difference is in the perception.

You cannot simply ignore evidence just because you don't like it. I wouldn't go so far as to say you are a Vettel hater, but it's clear that you don't respect his abilities in the same way you do Hamilton's. Which is fine, by the way, but you can't deny that it affects your judgement in their respect performances and your refusal to acknowledge that even as a possibility doesn't do you any favours. You don't have to answer this, of course, but please don't pretend that you're being the voice of reason here when all the evidence suggest that you are treating Hamilton and Vettel very differently

Everyone apart from a small minority are treating the two laps differently and I'm not in the minority, there's no more to say so let's wind this up.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:25 am 
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Zoue wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to say you are a Vettel hater, but it's clear that you don't respect his abilities in the same way you do Hamilton's. Which is fine, by the way, but you can't deny that it affects your judgement in their respect performances and your refusal to acknowledge that even as a possibility doesn't do you any favours. You don't have to answer this, of course, but please don't pretend that you're being the voice of reason here when all the evidence suggest that you are treating Hamilton and Vettel very differently


If one were to switch the word Vettel with Hamilton and the word Hamilton with Vettel in the above then it would be a perfect fit for your own position the majority of the time. Of course Poker has his bias, but equally so do you. I guess it is why so many threads end up with the two of you going endlessly back and forth. People in glass houses and all that.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:42 am 
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Lojik wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to say you are a Vettel hater, but it's clear that you don't respect his abilities in the same way you do Hamilton's. Which is fine, by the way, but you can't deny that it affects your judgement in their respect performances and your refusal to acknowledge that even as a possibility doesn't do you any favours. You don't have to answer this, of course, but please don't pretend that you're being the voice of reason here when all the evidence suggest that you are treating Hamilton and Vettel very differently


If one were to switch the word Vettel with Hamilton and the word Hamilton with Vettel in the above then it would be a perfect fit for your own position the majority of the time. Of course Poker has his bias, but equally so do you. I guess it is why so many threads end up with the two of you going endlessly back and forth. People in glass houses and all that.

Fair comment, but OTOH I'm the one arguing they should be treated equally here. Clearly there's a double standard being applied and at least I'm trying to look at it with some degree of objectivity


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