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Who will be under more pressure in 2019?
Hulkenberg; this is his chance to prove he's actually a top driver 41%  41%  [ 22 ]
Ricciardo; he cannot both lose to Hulk and maintain his status as a top driver himself 59%  59%  [ 32 ]
Total votes : 54
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:11 am 
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Because we didn't have enough Ricciardo threads yet! :thumbup: :]

So, the Ricciardo/Hulkenberg pairing next year at Renault promises some juicy possibilities in terms of establishing the place of both drivers in the pecking order. But who has more to lose if he fails to perform? Let's examine the situation for both:

Nico Hulkenberg is a man once widely regarded as the brightest prospect to come to F1 since Vettel (if not Hamilton), but his career never really got off the ground and he has yet to see the podium except from a distance, all-too often when his teammate is standing atop it. Still considered by many to be one of the best drivers outside the 'Big Five', Hulk has a solid record of beating or at least matching every teammate he has partnered.

At this point in his career, Hulk is firmly entrenched in Renault as their top driver, having destroyed the career of Jolyon Palmer and potentially sent Carlos Sainz into retirement if he can't find a drive for next year. But the pressure is about to ramp up, because now - for the first time in his career - Hulk will be joined by a driver who is regarded as one of the top drivers on the grid. If he can match Ricciardo - or even beat him - it may not be too late to revitalize his career and reputation. But if Ricciardo outperforms him, he will no longer be a potential top driver who never got his shot: he will simply be yet another midfielder who looked promising but couldn't perform at a top team.

As for Daniel Ricciardo, his situation is almost the opposite. His reputation this year is the highest it's been since 2014, and he leaves Red Bull after having beaten Max Verstappen - considered by many to be the fastest if not best driver on the grid - in at least 2 of their 3 seasons together. Ricciardo is currently regarded as a top driver, one of the elite group at the top of the pecking order. His victory over Hulk is supposed to be a mere formality on his way to challenging for podiums and wins in the Renault.

But what if it doesn't happen? Ricciardo is taking a risk here by leaving the spotlight already, potentially consigning himself to at least a year without winning. In the midfield, where wins and podiums are often out of reach and pole positions always are, there's only one sure way to stay relevant and noticeable to the top teams: dominate your teammate. Alonso's reputation as a top driver remains intact not because of the results he's gotten, but because his teammate can't come close to him. If Ricciardo fails to soundly outclass Hulkenberg, for many that will mean the end of his rating as a top driver, and if Renault fails to emerge as a contender he will have a difficult time indeed finding his way back to the front of the field.

So, who has the larger pressure to perform? Hulkenberg, to take his one and final shot at proving he really is a top driver? Or Ricciardo, to undue some of the damage Verstappen has done his reputation and reclaim his status as one of the best on the grid by putting away the man no one has been able to dominate?

One thing is certain: only one driver's career will still have anywhere upwards to go after 2019 is in the history books.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:16 am 
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Casting the first vote, I think Hulk is under more pressure. If Ricciardo dominates him, he's done - whereas if he basically matches Ricciardo, it's possible that his own status will be elevated without reducing Ricciardo's stock too heavily. Hulkenberg has been looking very strong lately, destroying Palmer and soundly beating Sainz, so his own reputation is at a career high point I would say. It won't survive being badly outclassed by anyone, even a top driver.

Ultimately, however, there's only going to be one winner here. Both drivers have something to prove, and they're mutually exclusive to each other.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:34 am 
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I voted Dan, I the hulk has done enough to cement himself as a solid driver, whereas Dan has more to prove moving to Renault against his old team and will be keen to show he can be a team leader outside of the redbull driver factory.

I'm not sure if Dan will immediately be placed as a number one driver seeing as they have Hulk who has been with the team a couple of years, but Renault are certainly talking like the signing of Dan means they have taken a big step forward to their future ambitions.. it cant be a good feeling for Nico, hearing the PR spin by Renault that the signing of Ricardo cements their intentions about becoming a serious title contender in the future.

despite that I think Dan will need to step up not just against Nico but he'll need to be best of the rest every race from day one to show he made the right choice. while Nico if he gets beaten by dan just needs to be there or there about's in the points close to Ricardo and his reputation stays intact.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:12 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Casting the first vote, I think Hulk is under more pressure. If Ricciardo dominates him, he's done - whereas if he basically matches Ricciardo, it's possible that his own status will be elevated without reducing Ricciardo's stock too heavily. Hulkenberg has been looking very strong lately, destroying Palmer and soundly beating Sainz, so his own reputation is at a career high point I would say. It won't survive being badly outclassed by anyone, even a top driver.

Ultimately, however, there's only going to be one winner here. Both drivers have something to prove, and they're mutually exclusive to each other.

The poll doesn't seem to show your vote...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:25 am 
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New team, new car, Ricciardo gets a holiday, but not for that long. Both have pressure not to be dominated by the other. In the immediate term, this is Hulks chance to show he can match the top tier and that may create pressure.

In some ways, Verstappen is also under pressure, because the measuring stick for Verstappen has been Ricciardo. However I suspect Ricciardo will validate Verstappen. Now that I think about it, the Gasly vs Verstappen with a new engine in the Red Bull will be a similar situation. If Verstappen is challenged by Gasly, then it will raise question marks about how good Ricciardo is, if Gasly can do better.

As for being number 1, that very much determined by salary. The team is always committed to the guy they spent the dollars on, and that makes him #1. Only a new rising star can go against that tide to be treated as #1. The bigger the contract disparity, the more that #1 status is going to creep in unless something special is going on.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:35 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Casting the first vote, I think Hulk is under more pressure. If Ricciardo dominates him, he's done - whereas if he basically matches Ricciardo, it's possible that his own status will be elevated without reducing Ricciardo's stock too heavily. Hulkenberg has been looking very strong lately, destroying Palmer and soundly beating Sainz, so his own reputation is at a career high point I would say. It won't survive being badly outclassed by anyone, even a top driver.

Ultimately, however, there's only going to be one winner here. Both drivers have something to prove, and they're mutually exclusive to each other.

The poll doesn't seem to show your vote...

You're right, I apparently forgot to vote when I typed that. :-P

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:18 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Casting the first vote, I think Hulk is under more pressure. If Ricciardo dominates him, he's done - whereas if he basically matches Ricciardo, it's possible that his own status will be elevated without reducing Ricciardo's stock too heavily. Hulkenberg has been looking very strong lately, destroying Palmer and soundly beating Sainz, so his own reputation is at a career high point I would say. It won't survive being badly outclassed by anyone, even a top driver.

Ultimately, however, there's only going to be one winner here. Both drivers have something to prove, and they're mutually exclusive to each other.

Hulk beating Sainz soundly? Sainz was looking rather strong in the first quarter of the season and Renault has made mistakes with Sainz’s strategy and it’s cost him. Sainz qualified much better in the last race which is also telling that Hulk hasn’t beat him soundly.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:34 am 
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I voted Hulk.

Because Ricciardo was in a top tier car & proved many times he can fight & match the top drivers of the sport to claim podiums & win even. Considering many believe this is a backward move, it would be understandable if he doesn't score podiums soon enough as he will help Renault grow into a race wining car.

Hulk should feel all the pressure as he'll be for the 1st time dealing with a tier 1 driver.

BTW, they're both having contrasting racing styles. Ricciardo is aggressive & will take the plunge whereas Hulk is mostly known to play safe & rather get points than risk no points at all!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:53 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Casting the first vote, I think Hulk is under more pressure. If Ricciardo dominates him, he's done - whereas if he basically matches Ricciardo, it's possible that his own status will be elevated without reducing Ricciardo's stock too heavily. Hulkenberg has been looking very strong lately, destroying Palmer and soundly beating Sainz, so his own reputation is at a career high point I would say. It won't survive being badly outclassed by anyone, even a top driver.

Ultimately, however, there's only going to be one winner here. Both drivers have something to prove, and they're mutually exclusive to each other.

Hulk beating Sainz soundly? Sainz was looking rather strong in the first quarter of the season and Renault has made mistakes with Sainz’s strategy and it’s cost him. Sainz qualified much better in the last race which is also telling that Hulk hasn’t beat him soundly.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:58 am 
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Ricciardo.

Most are expecting him to beat Hulk. He's made his decision, he's on about 4 times the earner Hulks on & he has to justify it.

This is a great opportunity for Hulk to final show his worth against a top shelf driver. If he keeps Ricciardo honest, he doesn't even need to beat him, his stock will climb nicely while Ricciardo's will plummet.

If Ricciardo dominates Hulk, it'll only be what's expected.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:00 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Casting the first vote, I think Hulk is under more pressure. If Ricciardo dominates him, he's done - whereas if he basically matches Ricciardo, it's possible that his own status will be elevated without reducing Ricciardo's stock too heavily. Hulkenberg has been looking very strong lately, destroying Palmer and soundly beating Sainz, so his own reputation is at a career high point I would say. It won't survive being badly outclassed by anyone, even a top driver.

Ultimately, however, there's only going to be one winner here. Both drivers have something to prove, and they're mutually exclusive to each other.

Hulk beating Sainz soundly? Sainz was looking rather strong in the first quarter of the season and Renault has made mistakes with Sainz’s strategy and it’s cost him. Sainz qualified much better in the last race which is also telling that Hulk hasn’t beat him soundly.


Neither of them were convincingly strong because it happened many times either car would suffer trouble. IN the last race, Hulk's car was in a mess. It's only easy to compare when both drivers qualify & finish best to their abilities & car issues don't play a part at all.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:08 am 
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Another binary poll? So tired of either/or opinions. There’s so many shades of grey there should be at least 3 choices in a poll like this.

I like both drivers and would love to see them fighting at the sharp end with each other and the other top drivers. Ricciardo has the most to lose since a lot of commentators seem to have written Hulk off and if he comes close to Dan it’s not good for the Austrialian. If Dan sees Hilk off then all he’s done is she off a driver who’s largely seen as a journeyman.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:13 am 
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But how many of us believe Hulk can beat Ricciardo? Ricciardo has grown tremendously as a river as he drove for a top team whereas Hulk has always been stuck in a midfield team. But I do expect Ricciardo to be on the backfoot for a couple of races as he gets dialled into the car which Hulk has already done being in the car for 2 years now. Once Ricciardo gets his footing right, he'll streak ahead of his team mate(a la Leclerc in Sauber)!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:38 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
But how many of us believe Hulk can beat Ricciardo? Ricciardo has grown tremendously as a river as he drove for a top team whereas Hulk has always been stuck in a midfield team. But I do expect Ricciardo to be on the backfoot for a couple of races as he gets dialled into the car which Hulk has already done being in the car for 2 years now. Once Ricciardo gets his footing right, he'll streak ahead of his team mate(a la Leclerc in Sauber)!

I expect him to be faster from day one, tbh. Leclerc was learning to drive an F1 car at all, whereas Ricciardo will just be learning to drive this particular F1 car. Certainly his adjustment period going from Toro Rosso to Red Bull was pretty much immediate.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Hulk beating Sainz soundly? Sainz was looking rather strong in the first quarter of the season and Renault has made mistakes with Sainz’s strategy and it’s cost him. Sainz qualified much better in the last race which is also telling that Hulk hasn’t beat him soundly.

I admit that I haven't looked at any particular numbers to back it up, so it's just my impression. But I'm someone who expected Sainz to be more than a match for Hulk, and my impression is firmly that so far Hulk has had the beating of him.

Hungary was a very strong performance for Sainz (much more so than P9 would suggest, he deserved more), but we also need to keep in mind that it's only the second time he's solidly outperformed Hulk all year - the other being France. Carlos Sainz is perhaps the unluckiest man in Formula 1, so it's in keeping with his fortune that something went wrong with his race on both the occasions he had a firm advantage over his teammate.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:16 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Casting the first vote, I think Hulk is under more pressure. If Ricciardo dominates him, he's done - whereas if he basically matches Ricciardo, it's possible that his own status will be elevated without reducing Ricciardo's stock too heavily. Hulkenberg has been looking very strong lately, destroying Palmer and soundly beating Sainz, so his own reputation is at a career high point I would say. It won't survive being badly outclassed by anyone, even a top driver.

Ultimately, however, there's only going to be one winner here. Both drivers have something to prove, and they're mutually exclusive to each other.

Hulk beating Sainz soundly? Sainz was looking rather strong in the first quarter of the season and Renault has made mistakes with Sainz’s strategy and it’s cost him. Sainz qualified much better in the last race which is also telling that Hulk hasn’t beat him soundly.


Sainz looked pretty poor in the first quarter and has improved since then.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:24 am 
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We can't havr enough Ricciardo topics so keep them coming :D

However, I feel differently about your statement Ricciardo beating Max in two of the three seasons and that he leaves Red Bull as the man who "won"

This is F1, you are as good as your last race. It's clear that Max has beaten Ricciardo this season in every way. That is what people see, not the numbers. The bad races Max had earlier this season made people doubt but the resilience of the 20 year old is very dangerous to Ricciardo. To been beaten in the press, bad results on track and to come out of all of this like the way he did must have shown Ricciardo that he will keep coming back and getting better and better.

To answer gour question, Hulk is not under much pressure if he just performs like he did this season and hopefully better next year when Ricciardo drives next to him.
Ricciardo is under more pressure. To be signed for 20m and to be welcomed as the teams number one driver who will bring Renault back to the top is more pressure.

I think Hulk is in a great position. He can learn from Ricciardo while having the advantage of not needing to outperform him. But how is Hulk mentally? Can he come back stronger after being beaten down? The mental aspect is not to be overlooked when looking at how good drivers are.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:33 am 
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If Ricciardo comprehensively outperforms Hulk then it basically torpedoes what was a very smart move by Nico in moving to Renault in the first place. His reputation as a midfield driver will be almost cast in stone at that point, Ricciardo will assume the #1 driver status at Renault and it could even leave Hulkenberg's seat under threat for 2020 should someone like Ocon be available.

If Hulkenberg outperforms Ricciardo then it creates an interesting scenario where a driver perceived by many to be among F1's best (perhaps not in the top two/three, but certainly in the top five drivers) is being outperformed by a driver who has never had a teammate with such a reputation. There could be the argument that Hulkenberg is finally delivering on the potential he had when he entered F1, rather than it being a sign that Ricciardo isn't as good as he was thought to be. But I suspect that for the majority, Nico being quicker would do a lot of damage to Ricciardo's reputation.

If they are pretty evenly matched then I suspect that for some, it'll be a sign Hulkenberg is as good as his pre-F1 potential suggested, while for others it'll mean Ricciardo's not as good as he was believed to be. Probably quite evenly split, I would've thought.

Ultimately I would say they're both under pressure for different reasons, as well as a shared reason: the chance to be the #1 driver at a factory team.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:20 am 
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I have a gut feeling that Red Bull will struggle next year with their new Honda engines. This will leave the possibility of Renault being the 3rd best team.

Renault have not been the best in strategy calls and tend to favour one driver. Red Bull have suffered from reliability issues and so far this year which has seen Daniel at the back of the grid on quite a few occasions more then Max . Daniel is no rookie in fighting through traffic and possibly being one of the best overtakers on the grid.

Personally I don't think Daniel should be worrying, he's proven that he is a good racing driver who can win grand prix's, something Hulk needs to prove. If Daniel is a No1 driver, I'm sure the team will favour him more then Hulk here which I'm sure he negotiated in his contract.

Another point to add, Red Bull tend to hire excellent drivers and allow them to race. We've seen it a lot lately where it seems every year they crash into one another. Depending who Red Bull get to replace Daniel, I beleive that driver will not be as good as Daniel IMO. This will only allow Max to win races. I could be utterly wrong here.

I think Hulk is the man that should worry and Dan has experience being in a top team and knows how to win races.


Last edited by Noni on Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:22 am 
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Indirectly Hulkenberg's performance against Ricciardo could make or break Perez.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:49 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Indirectly Hulkenberg's performance against Ricciardo could make or break Perez.

I think Perez is already in serious danger after the beating he's received from Ocon so far this year. If it keeps up, his already fragile chances at a top seat are finished.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:28 am 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Indirectly Hulkenberg's performance against Ricciardo could make or break Perez.

I think Perez is already in serious danger after the beating he's received from Ocon so far this year. If it keeps up, his already fragile chances at a top seat are finished.


I would say they've been pretty close to even. If he is being beaten by Ocon does that also then not reflect badly on Hulkenberg who was slightly less consistent than Perez.

I don't think either are ever going to be hired by a top team tbh. it's not the way things are done anymore.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:07 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Indirectly Hulkenberg's performance against Ricciardo could make or break Perez.

I think Perez is already in serious danger after the beating he's received from Ocon so far this year. If it keeps up, his already fragile chances at a top seat are finished.


I would say they've been pretty close to even. If he is being beaten by Ocon does that also then not reflect badly on Hulkenberg who was slightly less consistent than Perez.

I don't think either are ever going to be hired by a top team tbh. it's not the way things are done anymore.


Ocon has more chance than any to move into a good seat. He is well liked in the paddock.... Ocon like Max are fighters


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:11 am 
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Noni wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Indirectly Hulkenberg's performance against Ricciardo could make or break Perez.

I think Perez is already in serious danger after the beating he's received from Ocon so far this year. If it keeps up, his already fragile chances at a top seat are finished.


I would say they've been pretty close to even. If he is being beaten by Ocon does that also then not reflect badly on Hulkenberg who was slightly less consistent than Perez.

I don't think either are ever going to be hired by a top team tbh. it's not the way things are done anymore.


Ocon has more chance than any to move into a good seat. He is well liked in the paddock.... Ocon like Max are fighters


Ocon will be Mercedes next driver.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:41 am 
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Ricciardo is expected to beat the Hulk and is on considerably more money so the pressure is more on Ricciardo, if say Ricciardo is a tenth faster than the Hulk then that doesn't reflect to bad on the Hulk, however if the Hulk is a tenth faster than Ricciardo or even equals him then that greatly reduces Ricciardo's stock.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:50 am 
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I'd say Ric is under marginally more pressure as he is already regarded as the better driver.

Ric hammers Hulk - Wow, he's a top driver. Hulk isn't actually that good he has just had mediocre team mates.
Ric marginally better - About where everyone thought.
Even - I guess Ric isn't as good as Max, Hulk is underrated and deserves a shot in a top seat.
Hulk marginally better - Wow, that move backfired big time
Hulk hammers Ric - Okay Jolyon, take Dan's helmet off and stop pretending to do that dodgy, Aussie accent.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:05 pm 
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Lol that Palmer joke well put! ;)

Ricciardo has more to loose. It will be interesting to see how it will turn out. I feel that mentally Ricciardo has the edge learning from the difficult times where Max got in his head.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:07 pm 
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I wouldn't say Hulkenberg is under pressure as such, his reputation at the moment is as a solid midfield driver and that won't change if he gets beaten by Ricciardo. Rather he should see it as an opportunity to prove himself against a highly rated driver and potentially re-ignite his chances of a top drive. When even Hulkenberg himself says that that chance has been and gone, it's hard to see how he has anything to lose in this situation.

It's Ricciardo who's under pressure. He may have been beating Verstappen on points over the past few years but he's generally been slower when neither driver has suffered issues, and I think his reputation has already suffered a bit as a result. It's very telling that even before this move was announced, Red Bull appeared to be throwing their weight behind Verstappen as the better long term prospect. If he can't put Hulkenberg firmly in the shade then I think his once promising career is destined to fizzle out in the midfield, unless Renault can "pull a Mercedes" in 2021 and produce a car that is way faster than anyone else.

I think Ricciardo's problem is that (in my opinion at least) Hulkenberg is underrated by many and I'm not expecting Ricciardo to have an easy ride.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:03 pm 
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I have always considered Hulk as a good driver, but with 'something missing'.
Don't ask me what, or I would have said. If Dan does not beat him over the year, and convincingly, He will struggle to get the top drive, as Hulk has.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:39 pm 
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j man wrote:
I wouldn't say Hulkenberg is under pressure as such, his reputation at the moment is as a solid midfield driver and that won't change if he gets beaten by Ricciardo. Rather he should see it as an opportunity to prove himself against a highly rated driver and potentially re-ignite his chances of a top drive. When even Hulkenberg himself says that that chance has been and gone, it's hard to see how he has anything to lose in this situation.

It's Ricciardo who's under pressure. He may have been beating Verstappen on points over the past few years but he's generally been slower when neither driver has suffered issues, and I think his reputation has already suffered a bit as a result. It's very telling that even before this move was announced, Red Bull appeared to be throwing their weight behind Verstappen as the better long term prospect. If he can't put Hulkenberg firmly in the shade then I think his once promising career is destined to fizzle out in the midfield, unless Renault can "pull a Mercedes" in 2021 and produce a car that is way faster than anyone else.

I think Ricciardo's problem is that (in my opinion at least) Hulkenberg is underrated by many and I'm not expecting Ricciardo to have an easy ride.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Well one driver is earning three times more than the other, so Dan needs to show he's worth it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Easy street for Daniel.

Nico is under massive pressure to not let the smiling assassin head shot him.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Ricciardo for sure but what's more interesting to me is: what's in it for the winner?

They're both @30 with @150 starts to their name. 2 seasons means @190 GP's! For whoever asserts themselves however strongly is it really likely to put them on the shopping list of a top team (assuming Renault aren't one at that point). It feels like if either were going to have been signed to a top team it would have happened by now.

With so much young talent coming through I do wonder if they have missed the boat so one passed-over driver beating another= who cares?

2 Years means Ferrari will probably have had Kimi for one and then will be 1 year into his replacement. Mercedes? Can't see that.

I can only think that DR genuinely believes its a team on the up and his positioning himself like Hamilton did at Mercedes.

He's beaten a 4 WDC in the same car, beaten one of the most highly regarded young talents and has won races. What good is beating the Hulk going to do?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:06 pm 
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Beaten Vettel is not really what happened as we all know. Vettel had to do this in order to get out of the contract he had with RB.

And beaten Max...points yes. But we all see the real picture who is beating who ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
Beaten Vettel is not really what happened as we all know. Vettel had to do this in order to get out of the contract he had with RB.

We don't 'all know' that at all. Personally, I think it's a load of crap. Vettel was going to leave anyway as soon as Alonso was out at Ferrari, and he didn't need to be beaten for that to happen. Red Bull would have released him from his contract or Ferrari would have bought it out - nobody is going to force a driver who wants to leave to stay on.

Verstappen33 wrote:
And beaten Max...points yes. But we all see the real picture who is beating who ;)

Points are what matters - notice that I didn't say he out-drove Max in 2 out of 3 seasons.

That aside, in 2016 Ricciardo was genuinely the quicker, and for a large part of last year they were evenly matched. This year I think it's hard to tell how big the difference is, since we've had very few races where both drivers had a clean run of it. Max looks a little quicker, but that's all I'd say with confidence.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:03 am 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
Beaten Vettel is not really what happened as we all know. Vettel had to do this in order to get out of the contract he had with RB.


Oh, so Vettel deliberately lost to Ricciardo in 2014? That's an interesting theory. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:45 am 
moby wrote:
I have always considered Hulk as a good driver, but with 'something missing'.
Don't ask me what, or I would have said.


That's also my impression, and apparently it is also the impression of the big teams who (according to Hülkenberg himself) doesn't consider him for a seat anymore.

So my vote is for Ricciardo being under the most pressure of those two. The new contract has made him one of the highest paid drivers almost on level with Verstappen, and that comes with very high expectations. He is probably expected to win races in 2019 or 2020 - and eventually the WDC - while the expectations must be considerably lower for Hülkenberg, who every race extends his record of being the driver with most races without a podium.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:13 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Ricciardo for sure but what's more interesting to me is: what's in it for the winner?

They're both @30 with @150 starts to their name. 2 seasons means @190 GP's! For whoever asserts themselves however strongly is it really likely to put them on the shopping list of a top team (assuming Renault aren't one at that point). It feels like if either were going to have been signed to a top team it would have happened by now.

With so much young talent coming through I do wonder if they have missed the boat so one passed-over driver beating another= who cares?

2 Years means Ferrari will probably have had Kimi for one and then will be 1 year into his replacement. Mercedes? Can't see that.

I can only think that DR genuinely believes its a team on the up and his positioning himself like Hamilton did at Mercedes.

He's beaten a 4 WDC in the same car, beaten one of the most highly regarded young talents and has won races. What good is beating the Hulk going to do?

Indeed beating the Hulk gains him nothing that's why I can't understand why the Hulk would be considered to be under more pressure?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:15 am 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
Beaten Vettel is not really what happened as we all know. Vettel had to do this in order to get out of the contract he had with RB.

And beaten Max...points yes. But we all see the real picture who is beating who ;)

So Vettel knew at the beginning of the season that Alonso was going to walk out on his Ferrari contract?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:29 am 
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Ricci has more to lose.

In perception, Hulk is a solid driver, but would anyone expect that he will beat Ricci? No. So he has not much to lose.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:33 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
Beaten Vettel is not really what happened as we all know. Vettel had to do this in order to get out of the contract he had with RB.

We don't 'all know' that at all. Personally, I think it's a load of crap. Vettel was going to leave anyway as soon as Alonso was out at Ferrari, and he didn't need to be beaten for that to happen. Red Bull would have released him from his contract or Ferrari would have bought it out - nobody is going to force a driver who wants to leave to stay on.

Verstappen33 wrote:
And beaten Max...points yes. But we all see the real picture who is beating who ;)

Points are what matters - notice that I didn't say he out-drove Max in 2 out of 3 seasons.

That aside, in 2016 Ricciardo was genuinely the quicker, and for a large part of last year they were evenly matched. This year I think it's hard to tell how big the difference is, since we've had very few races where both drivers had a clean run of it. Max looks a little quicker, but that's all I'd say with confidence.


There is some suggestion Verstappen33 may be a fan of Verstappen, that I can understand as Verstappen is an exciting talent.

How good is Verstappen? Well, the only real reference is Ricciardo. If Ricciardo is way up there, the clearly so is Verstappen. But if Ricciardo is actually not fast at, then that would indicate Vertappen is nothing special after all.

A fan suggesting the driver they follow is faster than the team mate? I get that. Trying to downplay how good that team mate is compared to other drivers (and thus the driver they follow is only managing to beat a very ordinary driver), that I just do not get.

This year I believe Verstappen has shown he can be faster than Ricciardo, but that this stage only while taking more risks, which is why that speed does not yet translate to points. However, as a 20yr old, he will get to the level where that speed can be reached without the risks. And if you can go faster than Ricciardo, you are impressive.

But this thread is about Ricciardo, not Verstappen. :) But I can bring Verstappen into it.

Ricciardo has managed to outscore both Vettel and Verstappen. That is in locked in. The only thing that will hurt the reputation earned from that is if Verstappen implodes. Each driver only looks good if you do believe the reference, their team mate is setting a high standard.

As long as Verstappen is still believed to be fast, the time with Red Bull will support Ricciardo's reputation. Either he doesn't suit the car, or whatever.

I think the real pressure he will put on himself is to get results with Renault, not using the next two years as a stepping stone for another drive 2 years from now. He feels the pressure to challenge for the championship while at Renault!


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