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I'd like to see them give Alonso a trial in the car.

If you're good enough, you're young enough.

I just like to see the best drivers in the best cars. If Alonso can't cut it then fine, but if he is still capable of mixing it with the best, then I'd like to see that.

We don't disagree there. I just don't think that RB would go for him.

Red Bull is all about having a current top driver and an heir apparent with both coming up through the ranks of their own program. Other than the beginning where they had Webber as a legacy from the previous incarnation of the team their MO doesn't suggest that they'll bring in a top driver from another team to be their star. Max is a bit of an outlier too but not as much as Webber since they did put him in the STR first.

With their young driver program being a bit thin just now that might change eventually but right now they have Max and Gasly which can sustain them for a few years at least. Assuming of course that Gasly doesn't turn out to be a bust, which I don't see happening.

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I thought it was DC that was the legacy driver in the beginning. Not that it matters!

Doh! You're right, I didn't think back far enough. But I still stand behind my basic premise of why they won't put Alonso in Dan's seat.

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Christian Klein was the only driver who came from Jaguar to Red Bull, DC's first season at the team was as Red Bull and signed after the change...

Yes it was Klien who was already at Jaguar but he was a Red Bull backed driver anyway!

Yeah, I wouldn't call Klein their seasoned legacy driver though with hardly a year's experience under his belt... He had that weird shared seat agreement with Liuzzi on their first year under the RB name, he didn't even drive the whole season.

RaggedMan, yeah I agree, they have their programme and seem to stick with it. I'm not sure they ever had a realistic chance to sign a mega star of Alonso's calibre though, maybe they could relax their MO to accept him

At the height of the RBR championship years didn't both Alonso and Hamilton come knocking at their door? I think if they wanted they could've signed either but at that point they weren't interested since they had their guy who came up through their ranks in place and not interested in having 2 absolute top drivers at once.

After my earlier driver history gaff I went and skimmed the RBR Wiki page and was amazed at how many RB Academy drivers, like Klein and Doornbos, I had forgotten were part of it. My son and I watch a lot of endurance and sports car racing and I'm always pointing out former F1 and RB drivers are in those fields and he's always shocked at how many really good drivers have been thrown on the F1 trash heap. Personally I love how Fisi is now driving in so many different sports car series and doing well.

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Not seasoned, but the only driver who came direct from Jag. DC was seasoned, but not legacy and it was the legacy that was being commented on; or at least thats how I read it

Yeah, I forgot about that. I guess they had their own star driver winning from their academy, so they stack with him, and kudos to them for that.

The thing with RB, they like to mould their drivers to a RB fashion...

Both Alonso and Kimi are too experienced and have attitudes.... I agree about Kimi, though IMO has not impressed me so far this season, concidering he's driving the fastest car on the grid. IMO Kimi should of won a race by now. Bottas nearly won twice and because of bad luck, plus poor team strategy cost him those wins.

I'd say Verstappen has an attitude. Max might actually be OK with Alonso as a team-mate. I'd expect Max to think he would do better than Alonso, and that would be a good scalp for him to get - while the opportunity is possible.
With Ricciardo leaving though, I think Alonso would be very insistent that he gets equal opportunity to Max, and that might be unavailable if RB would consider Alonso.

I think all pure racing fans want to see Alonso in the Redbull. Unless you totally dislike him and think he should be banished in a back marker car forever, you should want to see this guy in a top car, racing against Hamilton, Vettel, Max. It would be epic. There is no question he is still good enough. He has outperformed every teammate he has had since partnering Hamilton by a wide margin, he's constantly dragging his mclaren to places it doesn't belong. I get it that he could be a cancer on the team, is very political and all of that is warranted, but his sheer driving ability cannot be questioned. Obviously Redbull will never give him the seat for those reasons I mentioned and also because Max would probably frown upon bringing him onboard, so we can stop dreaming.

Alonso at RBR ? Why not, what are the alternatives now ? Sainz, Gasly, Ocon ? Gasly is young enough to wait, Sainz has probably burned his bridges and Ocon is probably not consistently fast enough. I have always thought of Ricciardo as a younger less emotional more precise version of Alonso, why not get the original now ? As for Honda they have a thick skin and they appreciated where he put the car at times. Just pay him what you was planning to pay Ricciardo and even Verstappen would appreciate the experienced input of a veteran WDC who can drive any car fast. The chips may have fallen just right for him this time .

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Kimi: "Come on, get the McLaren out of the way!”

The Red Bull Young Driver program has worked very well for Red Bull, they will stick to that. Alonso will stay at McLaren, and not go Indycar next year.

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Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.

I agree that Red Bull will not take him, though they may poach Norris from McLaren in return for Key heading over early. I also agree Alonso will most likely stick with McLaren, I'm just not convinced it will be in F1!

Alonso is practically finished as a potential race winner.

He has blamed McLaren for spygate, Renault for crashgate, Ferrari for finishing 2nd, Honda for being underpowered. The guy burns bridges too often. There is nowhere competitive left for him.

His only chance now is to get back into Ferrari and take Kimi's seat imo. I don't believe that is gonna happen with Vettel as number 1. Although Ferrari could decide to have two number 1 drivers like the Massa and Raikkonnen pairing.

They were doing it before he knew about it so nothing wrong with blaming McLaren (If he did)
Renault admitted it
Ferrari could easily have been lower than 2nd without him
Honda were under powered. And unreliable

I suppose it's just as possible to burn bridges with the truth as a lie but I know what I prefer. True there's no way back to a competitive drive though, unless McLaren pull a miracle or he waits until 2021 and gets a favourable result there.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

To be fair I don't recall Alonso blaming Renault for crashgate, but didn't he accuse them of trying to sabotage him at one point? Can't remember exactly but that does stick in the mind.

There are also accusations of attempted blackmail at McLaren. Don't know how true they are but it's more mud to stick, really. He does have a history of falling out with people, which I guess is what Horner was referring to when saying he "tends to cause a bit of chaos wherever he's gone." It's a crying shame as we're robbed of seeing arguably the greatest driver of his generation in a competitive car, but I think he's only really got himself to blame for the fact that no-one appears to want him, despite that

first, that was in 2006 right after the chinese gp, he felt let down by the team and thought they didn't want him to win and leave with the no.1 to McLaren.

secondly, my my how the times change ! back in 07 it was pretty much common knowledge Alonso had tried to bully Dennis into giving him no. 1 status over Hamilton by threatening Dennis to expose McLaren to FIA through various mails which clearly implied McLaren organization knew about the data stolen. he got out of spygate with no penalty whatsoever because Mosley was gunning for Dennis big time and Alonso was the small fish that was gonna get him the big fish.

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Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the powerful as useful

yes, I'm ware. The reason I wrote "accusations of blackmail" is because, although this was widely reported, Ron also went on record to say he hadn't. Now this may have been a PR or legal exercise, but the point is we cannot say with 100% certainty that Alonso did indeed try to blackmail Ron. We do know Alonso was involved (more so than Ron, ironically enough), but the rest is speculation and hearsay. Without wanting to derail the thread too much the whole episode does support Horner's accusation of Alonso leaving chaos in his wake.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13793 ... r-red-bull

Not that I ever thought it would happen but Horner basically confirmed that RBR will not pursue Alonso. He also clearly explains that Alonso's reputation for creating turmoil combined with his age are the main reasons why.

Kimi replaced MS but unlike other drivers. He is fair and straight forward. No politics, no BS. In 2008 itself it was decided that Massa will continue and Santander, Alonso will join him ASAP. They also changed the car to suit Massa https://f1bias.com/2012/04/05/truth-about-kimi-ferrari-santander-2008/

When someone asked him about his opinion for wider tyres in 2021. Alonso said he won't be in F1. As RBR said they respect him but do not want him and I think it goes same for other top teams as well. I think he should end his F1 career in peace lol and not have fallout with Mclaren again.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM9-GK3MeLI

Seems like Alonso will be packing his bags then and moving to America. He should keep his reputation intact hopefully and should gather a lot of interest amongst the motorsport media and fan base around the world, which will be good for Alonso and Indy car racing as a sport.

Gasly looks like the #1 at the moment with Sainz in #2nd place for RB.

Ron-speak was powerfull, saying things without saying it was his trademark.

anyway, water under the bridge.

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Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the powerful as useful

He did in his first spell yeah.

He did but tried to take it back but Ron had already called Max. And Horner then tried to sign him for 2008, fully aware of his behaviour but he had different needs then so it was fine.

The doors are closed for Alonso in the same way they were for Lewis in 2012 at Red Bull and Ferrari. They're happy with the rooster they've got and don't want to deal with two of them because it causes problems. Horner isn't even going to put Sainz next to Max never mind someone like Alonso, they're going to go down the same path as Merc/Ferrari.

Alonso's problem ls he's too quick to provide a comfortable working relationship with another top driver. If he was slower and cuddly then sure he'd get put next to Seb,Lewis or Max but he's neither so he won't. And he's too old to be an attractive option for a swap so he is where he is.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

I am not sure about that. The way he behaved in 2007. It is obvious he cannot compete with his team mate with equal status.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM9-GK3MeLI

It isn't. There was a lot more to 2007 than a team mate having equal status

He seemed fine alongside Trulli at Renault and Button at Mclaren. What happened in 2007 was a pretty specific set of circumstances and can't really be transposed. Him and Hamilton never got to the point of refusing to the let the other past without crashing into them like Hamilton and Rosberg but I don't think Hamilton's 4 seasons with Rosberg proves he couldn't compete with a team mate with equal status.

I think things become very different when fighting for an actual WDC with an equally matched team mate. Things get toxic pretty quickly in those circumstances, think Senna/Prost, Rosberg/Hamilton and of course Alonso/Hamilton.

People get to throw the toxic and failure words around with too much abandon.

Alonso could very well have 5 WDCs now. One in 2007 if not for Lewis' (and only later his own) antics. Another one in 2010 if not for a botched team strategy in the last race. And the last one in 2012 if not for Grosjean taking him out in Spa in the first corner...

What I am pointing to is that probably, had any of these very plausible alternative realities had come to pass, we'd all be looking at his personality in a different light. Who knows...

Still, it is a shame one of the other top drivers is not actually asking the team to bring him on. Very very short sighted in my opinion. If we're still talking about Senna-Prost it is in large part due to the rivalry. And an Alonso-Hamilton pairing is the only to come close to that since...
Short sighted. Despite every predictable problems it might bring...

I thought this was all on record that Dennis panicked and phoned Mosley to tell him what Alonso had threatened, this reopened the spygate investigation were Alonso's emails were used as evidence against McLaren.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

Alonso needs a team to revolve around himself, he's not a live and let live kind of teammate, if he has a teammate that doesn't give him problems then everything is fine.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

I think the toxicity level by Alonso is 100% to on him. In 2007, he had some awful races too. Bahrain, Canada, Fuji, Spain.

In 2010, everyone keeps saying the botched pitstop was the reason he lost. He lost a place at the start to Button, and then he could not only not pass Petrov, he never had a genuine attempt. Pkus he had some horrible races in 2010 as well. Getting caught in a startline spin in Australia, jumping the start in China, crashing in Monaco practice, failing to qualify to q3 in Turkey, not giving the place back to Kubica in Silverstone, poor driving in Belgium.

2012, he drove well, gotta give credit to him, but squeezing Raikkonnen at the start really turned the momentum because the point deficit went to 4 points and Vettel took the lead after his Korean gp win. Not to mention, he drove really average at Brazil and only came to championship winning position when Hamilton and Hulkenburg crashed.

I think Alonso has become bitter that he will most likely be a driver who could have won more championships, but Vettel and Hamilton have pretty much put a stop to that. Alonso's look after Brazil 2012says it all.

Ah, the PF1 psychologists in action....

Can't compete with equal talent...
Needs the team to revolve around him...
not a live and let live kind of teammate...
has to have a teammate who doesn't give him problems...

and...

he is finished as a potential race winner...

To write off Alonso as we are seeing here is ridiculous. Don't even get me started on the 2007 fiasco known as McLaren, as it appears that the re-writhing history gang is warming up their yearly story-line again. Alonso is not driving a car that can win, few will argue that. Alonso may not get another competitive drive in F1, I won't argue that, but it is not because he is not capable of winning if in a competitive car. There are lot of factors in play as has been pointed out by many, but to think he is not capable of winning is asinine.

Personally, I hope that Alonso does take his considerable skills elsewhere and seek success in other series, be it Indy, WEC, or whatever. He certainly is not innocent in the relationships that have perhaps burned F1 bridges, but then, if one is to be honest, he hasn't been wrong in much of what has been attributed to him. Like Lewis, there have been many times when I wished Nando would just shut up, and be wise when and where he comments... but apparently neither of them are of that ilk. It is who they are, and sometimes the comments have consequences.

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Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

Alonso to Red Bull would make an exciting line-up. The old stallion in his twilight taking on the young buck. Would make for one hell of a story if Fernando came out on top and then retired, given the accolades Verstappen has.

Unfortunately, regardless of what Red Bull say, I can't see Fernando going back to Honda so quickly.

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Was the only thing going on in 2007 the drivers having equal status?

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

In 2010 I think the strategy error gets mentioned because it was so obvious that Red Bull would split but I think his accidents get more mentions overall but if anything gets over mentioned it's not passing Petrov. No drs and on Bridgestones, rev limited V8's and a old Ferrari engine down on power because of losing one earlier in Malaysia and Lewis was stuck behind the other Renault at the same time so obviously the Renault's were good in a straigtline that day. Throwing it away by crashing isn't going to help him if later something happens upfront he'd be crucified but he did make one move trying to induce the error but none came.

I think he's bitter he never got given the quickest car for any sustained period despite sitting in the biggest teams. His career spans 3 dominant car periods which he never got to have so there's bound to be some bitterness there for sure.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Sounds like we'll find out tomorrow (14th) what Alonso plans on doing.

I can't make my mind up whether I want him to go to Indy or have another year at McLaren. Indy would be cool because of the 500 and hopefully the chance to fight for wins and the title but F1 is still a big draw and I'm at least a bit more excited about the prospect of seeing more Dan vs Alonso if McLaren can take it to Renault and also the prospect of Lando vs Nando.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967