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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:09 am 
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The income is distributed as follows:
- Column 1 is divided equally among all teams which have finished in the top 10 places of the constructors’ championship in two of the past three seasons.
- Column 2 is shared between the top 10 finishers in last year’s championship, with the champions receiving 19% of the pot and the last-placed team taking 4%.

Ferrari receives a unique ‘Long Standing Team’ payment, four teams receive additions ‘Constructors Championship Bonus’ payments, and Red Bull and Mercedes receive further bonus payments.

- McLaren’s favourable commercial terms with F1 mean it will receive the fourth-largest share of F1’s income despite finishing ninth out of the 10 teams last year.

The teams receive their payments in a series of 10 installments. The final balance payment will be received in March next year.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:28 pm 
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So the Ferrari LST alone is worth more or the same as 6 of the 10 teams each receive in total, with Merc and RBR each receiving £26m for.... reasons™. If Liberty do nothing else then I hope they manage to make things at least a little more equitable.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:32 am 
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god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:49 am 
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Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:58 am 
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I really don't either. As long as the owners make sure we have at least 20 cars on the grid and preferably a bit more, I'm fine with the big whiny teams leaving. I have a feeling a more equal distribution of the prize money would entice more new teams to join the party anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:03 am 
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Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.


As long as there are at least ten teams and the best single seater drivers then I really don't care. I would rather have 12 competitive teams most of which aspire to win without Ferrari than the situation we have now. Effectively 4 teams trying to win the rest merely existing to survive.

The best situation would be both of course.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:30 am 
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The LST, CBB and Other columns are a travesty.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:03 am 
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Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.

Yes you do.

I care if Ferrari and McLaren leave over it, at least... ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:29 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.


As long as there are at least ten teams and the best single seater drivers then I really don't care. I would rather have 12 competitive teams most of which aspire to win without Ferrari than the situation we have now. Effectively 4 teams trying to win the rest merely existing to survive.

The best situation would be both of course.


It would be funny though, Hamilton, Vettel, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Alonso, etc. racing in backmarker teams about 2-3 secs slower than what the top teams can do.


Oh wait, I included Alonso, my bad!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:22 am 
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Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.



Nope... In fact with how cancerous and self serving those teams are I kinda hope they leave.... yeah sure let them create a rival series... who in the hell would want to race in a series founded by teams that want to keep a corrupt unfair business model with no regard for the fans or the health of the sport anyway.. good luck to any team that thinks they can join that series and remain competitive or financially viable.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:55 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.


As long as there are at least ten teams and the best single seater drivers then I really don't care. I would rather have 12 competitive teams most of which aspire to win without Ferrari than the situation we have now. Effectively 4 teams trying to win the rest merely existing to survive.

The best situation would be both of course.


It would be funny though, Hamilton, Vettel, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Alonso, etc. racing in backmarker teams about 2-3 secs slower than what the top teams can do.


Oh wait, I included Alonso, my bad!


:lol: :thumbup:

But, of course, nobody would care about the 2-3 seconds because it would be hypothetical (as the "top teams" would not be there anymore to do so).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:59 am 
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Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.



Nope... In fact with how cancerous and self serving those teams are I kinda hope they leave.... yeah sure let them create a rival series... who in the hell would want to race in a series founded by teams that want to keep a corrupt unfair business model with no regard for the fans or the health of the sport anyway.. good luck to any team that thinks they can join that series and remain competitive or financially viable.


The rival series is an empty threat, basically just cheap talk. After Ferrari cheated on the team alliance and took Ecclestone's bribe (the birth of the travesty columns (LSD etc.) in the payment structure) the last time around, such a project is dead and dusted. Furthermore, they could never agree on a common rules framework. Moreover, they would be unable to attract a full grid. And, and, and ...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:10 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.



Nope... In fact with how cancerous and self serving those teams are I kinda hope they leave.... yeah sure let them create a rival series... who in the hell would want to race in a series founded by teams that want to keep a corrupt unfair business model with no regard for the fans or the health of the sport anyway.. good luck to any team that thinks they can join that series and remain competitive or financially viable.


The rival series is an empty threat, basically just cheap talk. After Ferrari cheated on the team alliance and took Ecclestone's bribe (the birth of the travesty columns (LSD etc.) in the payment structure) the last time around, such a project is dead and dusted. Furthermore, they could never agree on a common rules framework. Moreover, they would be unable to attract a full grid. And, and, and ...


The agreement between the FIA and FOM basically make it impossible for a breakaway series. Any breakaway series would not be sanctioned by the FIA and any tracks they competed on would have all FIA sanctioned series removed.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:04 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.



Nope... In fact with how cancerous and self serving those teams are I kinda hope they leave.... yeah sure let them create a rival series... who in the hell would want to race in a series founded by teams that want to keep a corrupt unfair business model with no regard for the fans or the health of the sport anyway.. good luck to any team that thinks they can join that series and remain competitive or financially viable.


The rival series is an empty threat, basically just cheap talk. After Ferrari cheated on the team alliance and took Ecclestone's bribe (the birth of the travesty columns (LSD etc.) in the payment structure) the last time around, such a project is dead and dusted. Furthermore, they could never agree on a common rules framework. Moreover, they would be unable to attract a full grid. And, and, and ...


The agreement between the FIA and FOM basically make it impossible for a breakaway series. Any breakaway series would not be sanctioned by the FIA and any tracks they competed on would have all FIA sanctioned series removed.

Even better.

But so for a team outside of the top 3, they need to spend 70-80 million dollars more a year to try to simple match the top teams, never mind try to bridge the gap.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.



Nope... In fact with how cancerous and self serving those teams are I kinda hope they leave.... yeah sure let them create a rival series... who in the hell would want to race in a series founded by teams that want to keep a corrupt unfair business model with no regard for the fans or the health of the sport anyway.. good luck to any team that thinks they can join that series and remain competitive or financially viable.


If those teams left F1 and there were a rival series, what would be left would not be the F1 you are following. Nor is it likely that the top driver would say in F1 if they had an alternative series that included Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull and or McLaren. Nor would the major sponsors. If you want a who-cares series, F1 without those teams would be just that if people/sponsors had a realistic alternative. As for the other teams not joining a new series... don't kid yourself, they want to compete against the "names", that is why they are in F1 to begin with.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:35 pm 
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This thread goes in the same circular direction every time. Everyone talks about how ridiculous Ferrari's extra payment is, apart from the Ferrari fans who think it's a wonderful idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:22 pm 
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All the extra payments need to go in the bin.

Meritocracy on top of the shared initial payment between all teams. Let the teams sort their own merchandise out and let them keep the cash from selling it, the big teams still shift far more gear than the minnows and make the extra money that way. It's long been the idea i've mooted and i'm sticking to it.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:41 pm 
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j man wrote:
This thread goes in the same circular direction every time. Everyone talks about how ridiculous Ferrari's extra payment is, apart from the Ferrari fans who think it's a wonderful idea.


Actually I see a lot of discontent with the extra payments the other big teams are getting too, it's no longer just a Ferrari issue.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
j man wrote:
This thread goes in the same circular direction every time. Everyone talks about how ridiculous Ferrari's extra payment is, apart from the Ferrari fans who think it's a wonderful idea.


Actually I see a lot of discontent with the extra payments the other big teams are getting too, it's no longer just a Ferrari issue.

Yeah, there is just no way for a team to get a car that can fight for wins without an owner who can lose 80 million dollars a year just to bridge the gap to spend as much as the top teams, never mind the extra money on top of that to try to catch up to the performance advantage the top teams currently have.

Toss in the fact that teams like Renault, McLaren and Williams are in effect racing hand me down models of the top cars in teams like HAAS and that only makes the problem worst.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:50 pm 
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j man wrote:
This thread goes in the same circular direction every time. Everyone talks about how ridiculous Ferrari's extra payment is, apart from the Ferrari fans who think it's a wonderful idea.


I don't. I would love to see Williams, Sauber, Force India etc actually be able to make it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:16 pm 
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Altair wrote:
Lojik wrote:
j man wrote:
This thread goes in the same circular direction every time. Everyone talks about how ridiculous Ferrari's extra payment is, apart from the Ferrari fans who think it's a wonderful idea.


Actually I see a lot of discontent with the extra payments the other big teams are getting too, it's no longer just a Ferrari issue.

Yeah, there is just no way for a team to get a car that can fight for wins without an owner who can lose 80 million dollars a year just to bridge the gap to spend as much as the top teams, never mind the extra money on top of that to try to catch up to the performance advantage the top teams currently have.

Toss in the fact that teams like Renault, McLaren and Williams are in effect racing hand me down models of the top cars in teams like HAAS and that only makes the problem worst.

The Haas being a hand me down model is not proven, so is no more than an opinion. They'd be stupid to not look at what Ferrari were doing and aim at the same sort of concept as that's what the parts they buy are designed around, this will also lead to an obvious packaging similarity...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
j man wrote:
This thread goes in the same circular direction every time. Everyone talks about how ridiculous Ferrari's extra payment is, apart from the Ferrari fans who think it's a wonderful idea.


Actually I see a lot of discontent with the extra payments the other big teams are getting too, it's no longer just a Ferrari issue.

I would agree, McLaren getting more money than Force India is equally as ridiculous given their relative performances last year. The whole system is so utterly broken.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Just looking at the numbers in the table a little closer, it appears that it is literally impossible for Ferrari to be paid less money than those bottom 6 teams, regardless of performance. So they could qualify on the back row every race and then not complete a single racing lap and they would still get the LST and CCB payments which come to 82.3 million. Meanwhile Williams could 1-2 every single race, netting them the maximum figures from Columns 1 and 2, which grants them just 72.2 million.

How can anyone defend this?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:54 pm 
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j man wrote:
Just looking at the numbers in the table a little closer, it appears that it is literally impossible for Ferrari to be paid less money than those bottom 6 teams, regardless of performance. So they could qualify on the back row every race and then not complete a single racing lap and they would still get the LST and CCB payments which come to 82.3 million. Meanwhile Williams could 1-2 every single race, netting them the maximum figures from Columns 1 and 2, which grants them just 72.2 million.

How can anyone defend this?

Some people defend it on the basis of what Ferrari adds to the sport over Williams in terms of interest and revenue.

I, personally, think it's an unfair and broken model. The top teams and the historic teams will always benefit from having a more sizable fan base; more people buy their merchandise, they have an easier time getting sponsors, etc. They don't need the system rigged in their favor above and beyond the benefits they'll reap anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:58 am 
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ohwell wrote:
j man wrote:
This thread goes in the same circular direction every time. Everyone talks about how ridiculous Ferrari's extra payment is, apart from the Ferrari fans who think it's a wonderful idea.


I don't. I would love to see Williams, Sauber, Force India etc actually be able to make it.


Anyway the top 3 teams have a lot of financial backing. On top of that they're getting extra / bonus payments which makes it's more easier for them to keep developing their cars & run away from 4th team downwards. It would be so nice that the lesser financially privileged teams get a better payout for striving to be competitive.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:25 am 
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Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.



Nope... In fact with how cancerous and self serving those teams are I kinda hope they leave.... yeah sure let them create a rival series... who in the hell would want to race in a series founded by teams that want to keep a corrupt unfair business model with no regard for the fans or the health of the sport anyway.. good luck to any team that thinks they can join that series and remain competitive or financially viable.


If those teams left F1 and there were a rival series, what would be left would not be the F1 you are following. Nor is it likely that the top driver would say in F1 if they had an alternative series that included Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull and or McLaren. Nor would the major sponsors. If you want a who-cares series, F1 without those teams would be just that if people/sponsors had a realistic alternative. As for the other teams not joining a new series... don't kid yourself, they want to compete against the "names", that is why they are in F1 to begin with.


I don't think the top drivers would jump ship. Not in the short term anyway. Being F1 world champion is hugely prestigious. Being the champion of whatever the new series would be called is not. Even at the end of the 90s F1 was just Ferrari and a load British independents and Ferrari hadn't won the WDC in 20 years. F1 was still the place drivers wanted to be.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:12 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
god I really despise the current funding model.. I hope they force through a more equal based system or even a price cap.

I don't care if Ferrari, Redbull, Merc or McLaren leave over it.


Yes you do.



Nope... In fact with how cancerous and self serving those teams are I kinda hope they leave.... yeah sure let them create a rival series... who in the hell would want to race in a series founded by teams that want to keep a corrupt unfair business model with no regard for the fans or the health of the sport anyway.. good luck to any team that thinks they can join that series and remain competitive or financially viable.


If those teams left F1 and there were a rival series, what would be left would not be the F1 you are following. Nor is it likely that the top driver would say in F1 if they had an alternative series that included Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull and or McLaren. Nor would the major sponsors. If you want a who-cares series, F1 without those teams would be just that if people/sponsors had a realistic alternative. As for the other teams not joining a new series... don't kid yourself, they want to compete against the "names", that is why they are in F1 to begin with.


I don't think the top drivers would jump ship. Not in the short term anyway. Being F1 world champion is hugely prestigious. Being the champion of whatever the new series would be called is not. Even at the end of the 90s F1 was just Ferrari and a load British independents and Ferrari hadn't won the WDC in 20 years. F1 was still the place drivers wanted to be.
i

However, Ferrari was still there, mikey. McLaren was there, Williams was still in people's minds... Do you think drivers of the quality of Lewis & Seb would treasure a "WDC" earned in a dramatically watered down series if they had an alternative that might include Ferrari and a combination of Merc, Red Bull and/or McLaren? Would an F1 led by Renault, FI and say Williams would be a prestigious title? I don't mean that as a put down of the teams that would be left, but to be blunt, they are not the teams that pack the stands. Sponsors too would likely be looking elsewhere, the fight for television rights would probably be for a lot less money. Even if there were not an alternative series, I suspect that Formula E & INDY cars might well become the face of open-ended racing... With sponsors jumping on board at the expense of a weakened F1.

mikey, of course, these are just my thoughts...(no, sandman, I can't back then up with facts)... But, even if only two of the big three (Ferrari, Merc, & Red Bull) left F1 it would fail to be F1 as we know it. I know it is popular in here to minimize the manufacturers, particularly Ferrari, to F1, but I think doing so is often ignoring what and who (drivers, sponsors, fans...) To the sport.

Let's face it, they are the teams that generate the revenue ...

Of course, I could be wrong and as a member who has earned my respect, I understand that you certainly may not see it the same way, but I sincerely feel that F1 cannot afford to lose Ferrari and even one more major at this time. Losing Ferrari alone could be crippling.

drifted while mikey was posting... Sorry about that. EDITED. why does it keep changing it to drifted???

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:21 am 
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Blake wrote:
Ferrari was still there, mikey. McLaren was there, Williams was still in people's minds... Do you think drivers the quality of Lewis & Seb would treasure a "WDC" earned is a dramatically watered down series of they had an alternative that include Ferrari and a combination of Merc, Red Bull and/or McLaren? A F1 led by Renault, FI and say Williams would be a prestigious title? I don't mean that as a put down of the teams that would be left, but to be blunt, they are not the teams that pack the stands. Sponsors too would likely be looking elsewhere, the fight for television rights would probably be for a lot less money. Even if there were not an alternative series, I suspect that Formula E & INDY cars might well become the face of open-ended racing.

mikey, of course, these are just my thoughts...(no, sandman, I can't back then up with facts)... But, even if only two of the big three (Ferrari, Merc, & Red Bull) left F1 it would fail to be F1 as we know it. I know it is popular in here to minimize the manufacturers, particularly Ferrari, to F1, but I think doing so is often ignoring what and who (drivers, sponsors, fans...) To the sport.

Let's face it, they are the teams that generate the revenue ...


If all the best drivers were there and the cars were as fast as they are now then I don't really see how it would be watered down in anyway? I don't think the drivers really care who they win it for or which teams they have to compete against. Winning an F1 championship puts your name with a list of greats. It has tremendous cache. Winning the Formula A world championship or whatever else they would call it would not have that.

The drivers you might get to go would be some of the midfield if you could give them an opportunity to actually win something and waved a Ferrari sized pay cheque at them. Like, If that happened then perhaps it would cheapen it slightly but only slightly.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:58 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ferrari was still there, mikey. McLaren was there, Williams was still in people's minds... Do you think drivers the quality of Lewis & Seb would treasure a "WDC" earned is a dramatically watered down series of they had an alternative that include Ferrari and a combination of Merc, Red Bull and/or McLaren? A F1 led by Renault, FI and say Williams would be a prestigious title? I don't mean that as a put down of the teams that would be left, but to be blunt, they are not the teams that pack the stands. Sponsors too would likely be looking elsewhere, the fight for television rights would probably be for a lot less money. Even if there were not an alternative series, I suspect that Formula E & INDY cars might well become the face of open-ended racing.

mikey, of course, these are just my thoughts...(no, sandman, I can't back then up with facts)... But, even if only two of the big three (Ferrari, Merc, & Red Bull) left F1 it would fail to be F1 as we know it. I know it is popular in here to minimize the manufacturers, particularly Ferrari, to F1, but I think doing so is often ignoring what and who (drivers, sponsors, fans...) To the sport.

Let's face it, they are the teams that generate the revenue ...


If all the best drivers were there and the cars were as fast as they are now then I don't really see how it would be watered down in anyway? I don't think the drivers really care who they win it for or which teams they have to compete against. Winning an F1 championship puts your name with a list of greats. It has tremendous cache. Winning the Formula A world championship or whatever else they would call it would not have that.

The drivers you might get to go would be some of the midfield if you could give them an opportunity to actually win something and waved a Ferrari sized pay cheque at them. Like, If that happened then perhaps it would cheapen it slightly but only slightly.

I don't think it would be any more watered down than it will be when Lewis Hamilton retires. He's the biggest name in the sport right now in terms of marketability and branding, and probably draws in more fans than any other driver. But after he's gone, others will take his place and within half a season no one will care because they'll have someone new to support. And fans are just as fickle when it comes to teams as well, just look at how quickly Brawn GP rose to the forefront. Formula 1 is the biggest brand in Formula 1, not Ferrari, Lewis Hamilton or anyone else.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:48 pm 
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j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ferrari was still there, mikey. McLaren was there, Williams was still in people's minds... Do you think drivers the quality of Lewis & Seb would treasure a "WDC" earned is a dramatically watered down series of they had an alternative that include Ferrari and a combination of Merc, Red Bull and/or McLaren? A F1 led by Renault, FI and say Williams would be a prestigious title? I don't mean that as a put down of the teams that would be left, but to be blunt, they are not the teams that pack the stands. Sponsors too would likely be looking elsewhere, the fight for television rights would probably be for a lot less money. Even if there were not an alternative series, I suspect that Formula E & INDY cars might well become the face of open-ended racing.

mikey, of course, these are just my thoughts...(no, sandman, I can't back then up with facts)... But, even if only two of the big three (Ferrari, Merc, & Red Bull) left F1 it would fail to be F1 as we know it. I know it is popular in here to minimize the manufacturers, particularly Ferrari, to F1, but I think doing so is often ignoring what and who (drivers, sponsors, fans...) To the sport.

Let's face it, they are the teams that generate the revenue ...


If all the best drivers were there and the cars were as fast as they are now then I don't really see how it would be watered down in anyway? I don't think the drivers really care who they win it for or which teams they have to compete against. Winning an F1 championship puts your name with a list of greats. It has tremendous cache. Winning the Formula A world championship or whatever else they would call it would not have that.

The drivers you might get to go would be some of the midfield if you could give them an opportunity to actually win something and waved a Ferrari sized pay cheque at them. Like, If that happened then perhaps it would cheapen it slightly but only slightly.

I don't think it would be any more watered down than it will be when Lewis Hamilton retires. He's the biggest name in the sport right now in terms of marketability and branding, and probably draws in more fans than any other driver. But after he's gone, others will take his place and within half a season no one will care because they'll have someone new to support. And fans are just as fickle when it comes to teams as well, just look at how quickly Brawn GP rose to the forefront. Formula 1 is the biggest brand in Formula 1, not Ferrari, Lewis Hamilton or anyone else.


Yes that's a solid point. Raikkonen's 07 WDC didn't feel watered down because Schumacher wasn't there anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:46 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ferrari was still there, mikey. McLaren was there, Williams was still in people's minds... Do you think drivers the quality of Lewis & Seb would treasure a "WDC" earned is a dramatically watered down series of they had an alternative that include Ferrari and a combination of Merc, Red Bull and/or McLaren? A F1 led by Renault, FI and say Williams would be a prestigious title? I don't mean that as a put down of the teams that would be left, but to be blunt, they are not the teams that pack the stands. Sponsors too would likely be looking elsewhere, the fight for television rights would probably be for a lot less money. Even if there were not an alternative series, I suspect that Formula E & INDY cars might well become the face of open-ended racing.

mikey, of course, these are just my thoughts...(no, sandman, I can't back then up with facts)... But, even if only two of the big three (Ferrari, Merc, & Red Bull) left F1 it would fail to be F1 as we know it. I know it is popular in here to minimize the manufacturers, particularly Ferrari, to F1, but I think doing so is often ignoring what and who (drivers, sponsors, fans...) To the sport.

Let's face it, they are the teams that generate the revenue ...


If all the best drivers were there and the cars were as fast as they are now then I don't really see how it would be watered down in anyway? I don't think the drivers really care who they win it for or which teams they have to compete against. Winning an F1 championship puts your name with a list of greats. It has tremendous cache. Winning the Formula A world championship or whatever else they would call it would not have that.

The drivers you might get to go would be some of the midfield if you could give them an opportunity to actually win something and waved a Ferrari sized pay cheque at them. Like, If that happened then perhaps it would cheapen it slightly but only slightly.

I don't think it would be any more watered down than it will be when Lewis Hamilton retires. He's the biggest name in the sport right now in terms of marketability and branding, and probably draws in more fans than any other driver. But after he's gone, others will take his place and within half a season no one will care because they'll have someone new to support. And fans are just as fickle when it comes to teams as well, just look at how quickly Brawn GP rose to the forefront. Formula 1 is the biggest brand in Formula 1, not Ferrari, Lewis Hamilton or anyone else.


Yes that's a solid point. Raikkonen's 07 WDC didn't feel watered down because Schumacher wasn't there anymore.

Every sport survives their biggest stars leaving. Until the next ones rise. We already have the future champions here, the young blood.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:53 am 
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Who gets shafted most with this setup, I wonder. McLaren? Sauber?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:54 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ferrari was still there, mikey. McLaren was there, Williams was still in people's minds... Do you think drivers the quality of Lewis & Seb would treasure a "WDC" earned is a dramatically watered down series of they had an alternative that include Ferrari and a combination of Merc, Red Bull and/or McLaren? A F1 led by Renault, FI and say Williams would be a prestigious title? I don't mean that as a put down of the teams that would be left, but to be blunt, they are not the teams that pack the stands. Sponsors too would likely be looking elsewhere, the fight for television rights would probably be for a lot less money. Even if there were not an alternative series, I suspect that Formula E & INDY cars might well become the face of open-ended racing.

mikey, of course, these are just my thoughts...(no, sandman, I can't back then up with facts)... But, even if only two of the big three (Ferrari, Merc, & Red Bull) left F1 it would fail to be F1 as we know it. I know it is popular in here to minimize the manufacturers, particularly Ferrari, to F1, but I think doing so is often ignoring what and who (drivers, sponsors, fans...) To the sport.

Let's face it, they are the teams that generate the revenue ...


If all the best drivers were there and the cars were as fast as they are now then I don't really see how it would be watered down in anyway? I don't think the drivers really care who they win it for or which teams they have to compete against. Winning an F1 championship puts your name with a list of greats. It has tremendous cache. Winning the Formula A world championship or whatever else they would call it would not have that.

The drivers you might get to go would be some of the midfield if you could give them an opportunity to actually win something and waved a Ferrari sized pay cheque at them. Like, If that happened then perhaps it would cheapen it slightly but only slightly.

I don't think it would be any more watered down than it will be when Lewis Hamilton retires. He's the biggest name in the sport right now in terms of marketability and branding, and probably draws in more fans than any other driver. But after he's gone, others will take his place and within half a season no one will care because they'll have someone new to support. And fans are just as fickle when it comes to teams as well, just look at how quickly Brawn GP rose to the forefront. Formula 1 is the biggest brand in Formula 1, not Ferrari, Lewis Hamilton or anyone else.


Yes that's a solid point. Raikkonen's 07 WDC didn't feel watered down because Schumacher wasn't there anymore.


No, it felt watered down because Hamilton should have won it :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:28 am 
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Lojik wrote:
j man wrote:
This thread goes in the same circular direction every time. Everyone talks about how ridiculous Ferrari's extra payment is, apart from the Ferrari fans who think it's a wonderful idea.


Actually I see a lot of discontent with the extra payments the other big teams are getting too, it's no longer just a Ferrari issue.


I wonder if the other payment is a recent championships won bonus. I had read somewhere that if you win a championship, you then get a bonus added to your prize money every year (under the current agreement).
Merc and Red Bull now have 4 WCC each under the current agreement and they both have the same ‘other’ payment.

As far as Ferrari getting their big bonus, it reminds me of when Tiger Woods came and played in some minor golf tournament in Australia 15 years ago.
The prize money for 1st was $300k.
Woods reportedly got 1 million just for showing up.

Unfair?
Yep
Was it money well spent?
Absolutely

It generated a huge amount of interest that it wouldn’t have got - extra ticket sales, tv coverage, better value for advertisers etc etc.

Ferrari are like that for F1.

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