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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:50 am 
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pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Thebusinessmuppet wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:

True that, but it's just Mercedes that keeps saying it, other say Ferrari have improved their straight line speed.

What's glaring is Mercedes customers have not improved with the works engine upgrade like the Ferrari customer teams.


It's not just Wolff saying it, he said there losing 0.5 on the straights which I'm sure he said after quali. Amus said 0.4 after quali, I have heard Rosberg say a 20% boost, Horner says it's the benchmark. Everywhere you read or hear says the Ferrari engine is the best. It's not a bad thing Ferrari having the best engine and no one saying it's like the Mercedes domination period, what they have done is absolutely superb and has to be applauded.


No way half a second, that would mean the Red Bulls would be losing much more and be 1.5 to 2 seconds off the pace.


Amus reported engine wise 0.4 to Mercedes and 0.8 to Red bull.

After Ferrari basically got the all clear for the battery it seems that for Germany they brought an improved MGU-K and ERS system, which I guess is the battery?

Wolff seems to think it's an area were the FIA can't really police.

According to Brundle’s latest column rumour is its not connected to the batteries at all. And it can’t be ICE, because Kimi is still using old spec


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Thebusinessmuppet wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
It's not just Wolff saying it, he said there losing 0.5 on the straights which I'm sure he said after quali. Amus said 0.4 after quali, I have heard Rosberg say a 20% boost, Horner says it's the benchmark. Everywhere you read or hear says the Ferrari engine is the best. It's not a bad thing Ferrari having the best engine and no one saying it's like the Mercedes domination period, what they have done is absolutely superb and has to be applauded.


No way half a second, that would mean the Red Bulls would be losing much more and be 1.5 to 2 seconds off the pace.


Amus reported engine wise 0.4 to Mercedes and 0.8 to Red bull.

After Ferrari basically got the all clear for the battery it seems that for Germany they brought an improved MGU-K and ERS system, which I guess is the battery?

Wolff seems to think it's an area were the FIA can't really police.

According to Brundle’s latest column rumour is its not connected to the batteries at all. And it can’t be ICE, because Kimi is still using old spec

Others like Rosberg are saying it's the electrical energy, as far as I'm aware all the Ferrari engines got the latest MGU-K and ERS in Germany?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Thebusinessmuppet wrote:

No way half a second, that would mean the Red Bulls would be losing much more and be 1.5 to 2 seconds off the pace.


Amus reported engine wise 0.4 to Mercedes and 0.8 to Red bull.

After Ferrari basically got the all clear for the battery it seems that for Germany they brought an improved MGU-K and ERS system, which I guess is the battery?

Wolff seems to think it's an area were the FIA can't really police.

According to Brundle’s latest column rumour is its not connected to the batteries at all. And it can’t be ICE, because Kimi is still using old spec

Others like Rosberg are saying it's the electrical energy, as far as I'm aware all the Ferrari engines got the latest MGU-K and ERS in Germany?

Yeah I don’t know, tbh. It’s all beyond my ken. I just thought Brundle’s comments were interesting because until then everything had pointed towards electrical. Not saying he’s right as he’s also admitted that no one really knows what it is


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Others like Rosberg are saying it's the electrical energy, as far as I'm aware all the Ferrari engines got the latest MGU-K and ERS in Germany?


And yet the spike in performance across all the Ferrari powered teams happened earlier, around France or Austria. Hulkenberg for instance is quoted as saying

"Something is going on there, it's not normal," he said at Hockenheim.

"Since a couple of weekends, since France I think, all Ferrari powered cars have a lot of power all at once."


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/137615/fia-satisfied-as-rivals-still-query-trange-ferrari

I love intrigue like this and absolutely salute Ferrari for what they have achieved, but it's so annoying not to really know what's going on.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Esteban Ocon's virtual lap around Hungary:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Thebusinessmuppet wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
True that, but it's just Mercedes that keeps saying it, other say Ferrari have improved their straight line speed.

What's glaring is Mercedes customers have not improved with the works engine upgrade like the Ferrari customer teams.


It's not just Wolff saying it, he said there losing 0.5 on the straights which I'm sure he said after quali. Amus said 0.4 after quali, I have heard Rosberg say a 20% boost, Horner says it's the benchmark. Everywhere you read or hear says the Ferrari engine is the best. It's not a bad thing Ferrari having the best engine and no one saying it's like the Mercedes domination period, what they have done is absolutely superb and has to be applauded.


No way half a second, that would mean the Red Bulls would be losing much more and be 1.5 to 2 seconds off the pace.


Its a fact, the Ferrari was 0.4-0.5 quicker on the straights. Its not debatable, the GPS shows it clearly.

It is however likely a combination of setup, PU and chassis drag etc.

It also means the Mercedes was 0.3-0.4 quicker through the corners.


Its difficult to understand when you look at the speeds from the Speed Trap for the German GP.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/results/2 ... 024/?st=ST


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:50 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Esteban Ocon's virtual lap around Hungary:



That's actually a good virtual lap for once. I'm guessing he plays a little in his spare time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Others like Rosberg are saying it's the electrical energy, as far as I'm aware all the Ferrari engines got the latest MGU-K and ERS in Germany?


And yet the spike in performance across all the Ferrari powered teams happened earlier, around France or Austria. Hulkenberg for instance is quoted as saying

"Something is going on there, it's not normal," he said at Hockenheim.

"Since a couple of weekends, since France I think, all Ferrari powered cars have a lot of power all at once."


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/137615/fia-satisfied-as-rivals-still-query-trange-ferrari

I love intrigue like this and absolutely salute Ferrari for what they have achieved, but it's so annoying not to really know what's going on.

It's being said it's Mercedes themselves that have put their foot in it after alerting the FIA about concerns over the twin battery arrangement, the FIA have found nothing wrong so Ferrari have pressed on with the technology.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Others like Rosberg are saying it's the electrical energy, as far as I'm aware all the Ferrari engines got the latest MGU-K and ERS in Germany?


And yet the spike in performance across all the Ferrari powered teams happened earlier, around France or Austria. Hulkenberg for instance is quoted as saying

"Something is going on there, it's not normal," he said at Hockenheim.

"Since a couple of weekends, since France I think, all Ferrari powered cars have a lot of power all at once."


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/137615/fia-satisfied-as-rivals-still-query-trange-ferrari

I love intrigue like this and absolutely salute Ferrari for what they have achieved, but it's so annoying not to really know what's going on.


It is but welcome to Renault's and Honda's world. Renault couldn't introduce lean burn until Monaco 2016, Honda 2017, because it took so long to work out what Mercedes were doing in 2014+15.

Ferrari knew earlier by signing the Mercedes combustion chief in the summer 2014 and then Mahle came to them early in 2015 with TJI.

Mercedes,Renault or Honda need to be swooping on Ferrari ERS engineers out of contract this year if this is the new big mystery.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:16 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Esteban Ocon's virtual lap around Hungary:



That's actually a good virtual lap for once. I'm guessing he plays a little in his spare time.


:thumbup: that’s how the laps should be and exactly what we expect to see at this level

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
Lojik wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Esteban Ocon's virtual lap around Hungary:


That's actually a good virtual lap for once. I'm guessing he plays a little in his spare time.

:thumbup: that’s how the laps should be and exactly what we expect to see at this level

I make it about a high 1:19 something, although since YouTube doesn't show fractions of a second it's hard to tell at a glance. Considering that he qualified his actual Force India in the mid 18s last year, it's a pretty competitive lap, and certainly the best we've seen so far.

Interestingly, he uses different gears than the top virtual drivers do: I noticed that around turn 4 he shifted down into 6th, whereas someone like Salih Saltunc (or me, for that matter) would have held it in 7th. Similarly, he shifts down into 3rd for the chicane, and 5th for the fast right hander. That implies to me that he's driving the gears you'd need to use with the real car, and the ability to take those corners in such high gears in the game is not realistic, and is perhaps part of where the lap time advantage in-game comes from over the real cars.

EDIT: I like to spend some time in Time Trial on the upcoming track for each weekend, so I have Hungary on F1 2017 pretty firmly in my mind right now! :]

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:00 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Lojik wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Esteban Ocon's virtual lap around Hungary:


That's actually a good virtual lap for once. I'm guessing he plays a little in his spare time.

:thumbup: that’s how the laps should be and exactly what we expect to see at this level

I make it about a high 1:19 something, although since YouTube doesn't show fractions of a second it's hard to tell at a glance. Considering that he qualified his actual Force India in the mid 18s last year, it's a pretty competitive lap, and certainly the best we've seen so far.

Interestingly, he uses different gears than the top virtual drivers do: I noticed that around turn 4 he shifted down into 6th, whereas someone like Salih Saltunc (or me, for that matter) would have held it in 7th. Similarly, he shifts down into 3rd for the chicane, and 5th for the fast right hander. That implies to me that he's driving the gears you'd need to use with the real car, and the ability to take those corners in such high gears in the game is not realistic, and is perhaps part of where the lap time advantage in-game comes from over the real cars.

EDIT: I like to spend some time in Time Trial on the upcoming track for each weekend, so I have Hungary on F1 2017 pretty firmly in my mind right now! :]


Yeah. He looked in control throughout. Hopefully after seeing this hotlap, Renault sign him (if not signed already)!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:06 am 
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Some interesting stats about the Hungarian Grand Prix (especially the 1st stat):

- Winning the Hungarian Grand Prix might not be best for your championship hopes. Not since Michael Schumacher in 2004 has the victor in Hungary taken the title, and out of the 33 Hungarian Grands Prix to-date, only eight times has the winner claimed that year’s championship.

- The points difference in the drivers' standings between Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel is 17, the third time this year it’s been exactly 17 points, while it’s never been more than that all season.

- Kimi Raikkonen has the longest run of Q3 appearances heading to Hungary, having appeared in the session in the last 41 race weekends. Interestingly, that record stretches back to Hungary 2016.

- The omens are looking good for Vettel to qualify higher than Raikkonen in Hungary, however. The last team mate of Vettel's to outqualify him at the circuit was Tonio Liuzzi when they were paired together at Toro Rosso in 2007 – the same year that Raikkonen last outqualified a team mate at the track.

- Daniel Ricciardo has appeared twice on the podium this season, and only ever as a winner.

- Fernando Alonso will turn 37 on race day in Hungary – but the last time the Spaniard won a race, he was 31, when he claimed victory at his home Grand Prix in 2013.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:35 am 
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I predict a Red Bull driver will stand on the top step on Sunday. :nod:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:40 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
- Fernando Alonso will turn 37 on race day in Hungary – but the last time the Spaniard won a race, he was 31, when he claimed victory at his home Grand Prix in 2013.

:(

Damn. I mean, I knew it was a long time ago, but that really puts it in perspective.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:49 am 
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Exediron wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
- Fernando Alonso will turn 37 on race day in Hungary – but the last time the Spaniard won a race, he was 31, when he claimed victory at his home Grand Prix in 2013.

:(

Damn. I mean, I knew it was a long time ago, but that really puts it in perspective.

Its just dawned on me that it was 2 regulation changes ago, madness.

Strange that it's brought up in this thread as I feel Hungary 2014 'should' have been his last win. I remember watching him holding Hamilton off in that Ferrari, Ricciardo ultimately got them both which in a way I though was a shame because if Alonso had managed to get the win that would have been the stuff of F1 legends. I mean it should be anyway considering he finished ahead of Hamilton, but the win would have made it much more epic and stick in the minds of more people.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:58 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
- Fernando Alonso will turn 37 on race day in Hungary – but the last time the Spaniard won a race, he was 31, when he claimed victory at his home Grand Prix in 2013.

:(

Damn. I mean, I knew it was a long time ago, but that really puts it in perspective.

Its just dawned on me that it was 2 regulation changes ago, madness.

Strange that it's brought up in this thread as I feel Hungary 2014 'should' have been his last win. I remember watching him holding Hamilton off in that Ferrari, Ricciardo ultimately got them both which in a way I though was a shame because if Alonso had managed to get the win that would have been the stuff of F1 legends. I mean it should be anyway considering he finished ahead of Hamilton, but the win would have made it much more epic and stick in the minds of more people.


I remember that race very well, how those tires lasted that long is legendary, the win would have been the icying on the legend cake but great display of driving none the less.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Engine components used till now. Guess Ricciardo & Bottas won't have it easy in the forthcoming races:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:33 pm 
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Driver's press conference. Lot of questions about 2019 to Sainz & Ocon.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:50 am 
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The title fight till now:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:31 am 
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Giovinazzi's team radio graphic shows Kevin Magnussen's face. Nice.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:27 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:


On paper looking at the numbers you would think the Racing was top notch every weekend. But as close as the points have been this season they have yet to really fight each other for the win on the track. Just about every time the cars have equal performance starting 1-2, one of them has some type of incident.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:48 am 
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FP1 done:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:39 pm 
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FP2 done:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Ferrari looking really good so far with the RBR not far behind, the Mercedes not so great, relatively.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Ferrari looking really good so far with the RBR not far behind, the Mercedes not so great, relatively.


I think Mercs fastest times were on the soft? So might be a bit more to see from them yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Ferrari looking really good so far with the RBR not far behind, the Mercedes not so great, relatively.


In FP2, Mercedes were able to put their best foot forward (qualy run) as the weather became cooler & the track temperature fell by 8 degrees, possibly affecting the track's pace.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:58 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Ferrari looking really good so far with the RBR not far behind, the Mercedes not so great, relatively.


In FP2, Mercedes were able to put their best foot forward (qualy run) as the weather became cooler & the track temperature fell by 8 degrees, possibly affecting the track's pace.


Sky were forecasting air temps of around 34c tomorrow with track temps 50c+. I really think the abnormally warm weather at a lot of the recent races has helped Ferrari slightly and is a bit of a hindrance to the Mercs. Barring driver errors, I will be a little surprised to see a Merc qualify higher then 5th.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Ferrari looking really good so far with the RBR not far behind, the Mercedes not so great, relatively.


In FP2, Mercedes were able to put their best foot forward (qualy run) as the weather became cooler & the track temperature fell by 8 degrees, possibly affecting the track's pace.


Sky were forecasting air temps of around 34c tomorrow with track temps 50c+. I really think the abnormally warm weather at a lot of the recent races has helped Ferrari slightly and is a bit of a hindrance to the Mercs. Barring driver errors, I will be a little surprised to see a Merc qualify higher then 5th.


Weather Forecast as per F1's official website:

'And while the temperatures will again be high this year – hovering around the 30 degree Celsius mark all weekend – possible thunderstorms are predicted on Friday, while there’s a 60% or higher chance of rain across all three days.'

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:40 pm 
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I think Lewis can get a second row spot if he nails his lap, but there will be a Redbull next to him. I expect Ferrari to lock out the front row. Once they turn it up they will distance themselves from Redbull. That said, I don't believe Merc's pace in fp2 is representative. They only did one low fuel run on the US and both of the drivers did not have a clean S3, so there is more to come. The Merc looks quite messy to drive on the onboards though. Either way, we are looking at damage limitation for Merc this weekend.

Vandoorne's new chassis doesn't seem to have helped one bit, he is still technically the slowest car on the grid, and that was a pretty bad error he made causing the spin, compounded by the fact he had no idea he put two wheels on the grass. Vandoorne has been so bad. I will never understand how such a highly rated junior prospect turned out to be such a bum in F1. One of the greatest mysteries in the sport that does not get mentioned enough imo.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:59 pm 
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When did Bottas take a 3rd ICE, TC, MGU-H? I do not remember that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:25 pm 
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I know that they put him on the 3rd ICE after he had the hydraulic problem that caused him to retire a couple of races ago. But that was a precautionary switch and it is not clear that the 2nd ICE is not salvageable. No idea about the other components though. But yeah it means he won't get any further upgraded ICE unless he takes a penalty.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:11 pm 
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So he is going to be using a Canada spec engine (race 8/21) in the final round or is taking a grid penalty. I wonder if Mercedes might be tempted to create a special spec 4 engine, designed to do just 3-4 races only to put Bottas up front and right in the mix to play a team role for Hamilton. It would also give him better shot at wins. Ferrari could also do this with Raikkonen given he is also out of sync.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:42 am 
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Long-run pace deficit (seconds per lap):

1 Red Bull
2 Ferrari +0.2s/lap
3 Mercedes +0.4s/lap
4 Force India +1.5s/lap
5 McLaren +1.6s/lap
6 Renault +1.6s/lap
7 Toro Rosso +1.8s/lap
8 Haas +1.8s/lap
9 Williams +2.2s/lap
10 Sauber +2.3s/lap

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:24 am 
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Have to say I'm getting to like Di resta on Sky. Very knowledgeable. I think Palmer would be a great addition too. Just hope that in 2019 someone from the Channel 4 team will come and replace Crofty. Brundle also seems like he's a bit grumpy and unamused by what is happening. DC kept him more cheerful in 2011 when they were together.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:42 am 
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Is this another weekend that Hamilton is struggling to get a decent lap together? Why do I get the feeling Bottas may beat him again in qualifying. It is often the case that If Hamilton looks uncomfortable in practice on Saturday, qualifying doesn't always work out for him.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:43 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Have to say I'm getting to like Di resta on Sky. Very knowledgeable. I think Palmer would be a great addition too. Just hope that in 2019 someone from the Channel 4 team will come and replace Crofty. Brundle also seems like he's a bit grumpy and unamused by what is happening. DC kept him more cheerful in 2011 when they were together.

Yeah Croft's contribution is to ask for reverse grids. :thumbdown:

Meanwhile Hamilton is looking lost at sea.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:45 am 
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The Merc looks like it's on a knife edge.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:48 am 
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pokerman wrote:
The Merc looks like it's on a knife edge.

Yea, the cars seems to have issues, but to me it seems possible that when the car has these problems, Bottas gets the better of it than Hamilton. But both made mistakes.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:56 am 
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Verstappen surely breaking the limits there. He hasn't put a fast lap together without bringing the full car wider than the white line. Hope the rules will be different in qualifying.


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