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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Gumption wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What happened to Verstappen only 7th more than 2 seconds slower?

The Red Bull just didn't look good in the rain today. The Mercedes looked great and the Ferraris looked a little twitchy.

Seeing Kimi that quick in the wet I would question that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Verstappen has been called to the stewards for impeding Grosjean.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
It looks like Red Bull built a car that just doesn't work in the rain.

So many theories like the one I read earlier that a car/driver has to be the quickest in the dry at a particular track for that then to translate to being also the quickest if it's wet.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
Verstappen has been called to the stewards for impeding Grosjean.

I saw that. He blocked him going into the final corner. Max was backing off to launch himself into his hotlap while Grosjean was just completing his hotlap.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:28 pm 
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How amazing it would if tomorrow it starts to rain the middle of the race! Hungary has htrown some amazing races previously & hopefully tomorrow is another one.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Llotyhy wrote:
It looks like Red Bull built a car that just doesn't work in the rain.



Shocking. They are usually mega in the rain and Max is highly rated in the wet as well.


So can we assume after today we've heard the last of the RB team begging for rain every time it get cloudy?

...in particular Verstappen.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:53 pm 
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Good drives by Hamilton and Bottas - and good signs for Mercedes for any future wet weather.

Tyre choices could mix things up a lot tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Once again, the rain sorts the men from the boys! It's all down to Merc strategy and a good start tomorrow unless it's wet. Kimi showed the Ferrari was perfectly capable in the wet.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Kimi's last ditch lap to get him into Q3 was probably the best lap of the session. It's a real shame he (apparently) lost out in traffic on his final lap. He looked super strong all the way through.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Mercedes has always been good in wets. It is just not the power the engine is smooth and driveability also helps. Wet always give some unpredictable results. I think Ferrari would have definitely had better chance on dry. Kimi was unlucky on his last run with traffic.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Kimi feels he had the pole in hand if not for untimely traffic at the end. It seems Vettel's performance is the outlier.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13769 ... table-pole


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:02 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Kimi feels he had the pole in hand if not for untimely traffic at the end. It seems Vettel's performance is the outlier.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13769 ... table-pole

Yes it seemed that way, Ferrari are becoming more and more the car to beat whatever the conditions.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:48 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Ahh.... Love truly does conquer all

:lol: He's probably thanking god for the rain.

The love of God is actually a thing.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:53 pm 
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No further action on Verstappen blocking Grosjean.

Red Bull mystified by their lack of grip in the wet.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:11 pm 
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FFS this looks like two weekends of going backwards in the various prediction games. Why does it have to rain just then? Why does the Merc have to go from nowhere to a beast in the rain? :evil:

Vettel has to be kicking himself though he should be 3rd and pushing for 2nd on the grid if you assume the usual gap over Kimi, wonder if he had Germany on his mind?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
FFS this looks like two weekends of going backwards in the various prediction games. Why does it have to rain just then? Why does the Merc have to go from nowhere to a beast in the rain? :evil:

Vettel has to be kicking himself though he should be 3rd and pushing for 2nd on the grid if you assume the usual gap over Kimi, wonder if he had Germany on his mind?


I don't know what Vettel's problem was today, but by all accounts Raikkonen was on for pole until he hit traffic on his last lap in the final sector. On this day in these conditions Vettel was not in the running at all. Weird.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
FFS this looks like two weekends of going backwards in the various prediction games. Why does it have to rain just then? Why does the Merc have to go from nowhere to a beast in the rain? :evil:

Vettel has to be kicking himself though he should be 3rd and pushing for 2nd on the grid if you assume the usual gap over Kimi, wonder if he had Germany on his mind?


I don't know what Vettel's problem was today, but by all accounts Raikkonen was on for pole until he hit traffic on his last lap in the final sector. On this day in these conditions Vettel was not in the running at all. Weird.

I'm not convinced on the Kimi thing. He wasn't actually held up by traffic I don't think he just said the spray made it so he couldn't see to improve. Without even a sector time proving he was on the Mercs pace im not at all convinced. Unless I've missed something more than that?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
FFS this looks like two weekends of going backwards in the various prediction games. Why does it have to rain just then? Why does the Merc have to go from nowhere to a beast in the rain? :evil:

Vettel has to be kicking himself though he should be 3rd and pushing for 2nd on the grid if you assume the usual gap over Kimi, wonder if he had Germany on his mind?


I don't know what Vettel's problem was today, but by all accounts Raikkonen was on for pole until he hit traffic on his last lap in the final sector. On this day in these conditions Vettel was not in the running at all. Weird.

I'm not convinced on the Kimi thing. He wasn't actually held up by traffic I don't think he just said the spray made it so he couldn't see to improve. Without even a sector time proving he was on the Mercs pace im not at all convinced. Unless I've missed something more than that?

Before pitting for tires one last time, Kimi had the quickest time. All through free practice, the Ferraris were quicker. They had the better car but they didn't put in the better laps.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:31 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
FFS this looks like two weekends of going backwards in the various prediction games. Why does it have to rain just then? Why does the Merc have to go from nowhere to a beast in the rain? :evil:

Vettel has to be kicking himself though he should be 3rd and pushing for 2nd on the grid if you assume the usual gap over Kimi, wonder if he had Germany on his mind?


I don't know what Vettel's problem was today, but by all accounts Raikkonen was on for pole until he hit traffic on his last lap in the final sector. On this day in these conditions Vettel was not in the running at all. Weird.

I'm not convinced on the Kimi thing. He wasn't actually held up by traffic I don't think he just said the spray made it so he couldn't see to improve. Without even a sector time proving he was on the Mercs pace im not at all convinced. Unless I've missed something more than that?

Before pitting for tires one last time, Kimi had the quickest time. All through free practice, the Ferraris were quicker. They had the better car but they didn't put in the better laps.

I think Kimi's lap before he pit was the last to be set though? When they were both on track at the same time the two Mercs were consistently quicker than the Ferrari's. Vettel and Wolff both seem to think Merc was better on the full wets too.

We would need to see more to prove it but it seemed to me that Ferrari fall away in the full wet conditions for some reason, Verstappen shows it's easily possible for the conditions to change the pecking order.

I just wonder why because in theory Red Bull and Ferrari should gain on Mercedes in those conditions given they seemed to have more grip in the dry. Obviously it's not that simple I suppose.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
FFS this looks like two weekends of going backwards in the various prediction games. Why does it have to rain just then? Why does the Merc have to go from nowhere to a beast in the rain? :evil:

Vettel has to be kicking himself though he should be 3rd and pushing for 2nd on the grid if you assume the usual gap over Kimi, wonder if he had Germany on his mind?


I don't know what Vettel's problem was today, but by all accounts Raikkonen was on for pole until he hit traffic on his last lap in the final sector. On this day in these conditions Vettel was not in the running at all. Weird.

I'm not convinced on the Kimi thing. He wasn't actually held up by traffic I don't think he just said the spray made it so he couldn't see to improve. Without even a sector time proving he was on the Mercs pace im not at all convinced. Unless I've missed something more than that?

Before pitting for tires one last time, Kimi had the quickest time. All through free practice, the Ferraris were quicker. They had the better car but they didn't put in the better laps.

I think Kimi's lap before he pit was the last to be set though? When they were both on track at the same time the two Mercs were consistently quicker than the Ferrari's. Vettel and Wolff both seem to think Merc was better on the full wets too.

We would need to see more to prove it but it seemed to me that Ferrari fall away in the full wet conditions for some reason, Verstappen shows it's easily possible for the conditions to change the pecking order.

I just wonder why because in theory Red Bull and Ferrari should gain on Mercedes in those conditions given they seemed to have more grip in the dry. Obviously it's not that simple I suppose.

Ferrari have more of a power advantage in the dry than anything else so I would expect wet conditions to work in Merc's favor but I didn't see anything to suggest that Mercedes had an advantage in the wet over Ferrari. Red Bull is a different story. They clearly are struggling right now and they seem to be losing out massively in the development race. The car also definitely goes backwards in the wet (which is bizarre).


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
FFS this looks like two weekends of going backwards in the various prediction games. Why does it have to rain just then? Why does the Merc have to go from nowhere to a beast in the rain? :evil:

Vettel has to be kicking himself though he should be 3rd and pushing for 2nd on the grid if you assume the usual gap over Kimi, wonder if he had Germany on his mind?


I don't know what Vettel's problem was today, but by all accounts Raikkonen was on for pole until he hit traffic on his last lap in the final sector. On this day in these conditions Vettel was not in the running at all. Weird.

I'm not convinced on the Kimi thing. He wasn't actually held up by traffic I don't think he just said the spray made it so he couldn't see to improve. Without even a sector time proving he was on the Mercs pace im not at all convinced. Unless I've missed something more than that?

Before pitting for tires one last time, Kimi had the quickest time. All through free practice, the Ferraris were quicker. They had the better car but they didn't put in the better laps.

I think Kimi's lap before he pit was the last to be set though? When they were both on track at the same time the two Mercs were consistently quicker than the Ferrari's. Vettel and Wolff both seem to think Merc was better on the full wets too.

We would need to see more to prove it but it seemed to me that Ferrari fall away in the full wet conditions for some reason, Verstappen shows it's easily possible for the conditions to change the pecking order.

I just wonder why because in theory Red Bull and Ferrari should gain on Mercedes in those conditions given they seemed to have more grip in the dry. Obviously it's not that simple I suppose.

Quote:
Ferrari have more of a power advantage in the dry than anything else so I would expect wet conditions to work in Merc's favor but I didn't see anything to suggest that Mercedes had an advantage in the wet over Ferrari. Red Bull is a different story. They clearly are struggling right now and they seem to be losing out massively in the development race. The car also definitely goes backwards in the wet (which is bizarre).


i think a lot of wet weather performance is being able to generate and keep heat in the tyres. merc have been struggling with overheating tyres this weekend and in general throughout the season, more then ferrari and red bull who are kinder on the tyres. i think that has worked in their favour on this occasion. also the ferraris seemed slower on the first flying lap and unfortunately kimi only got one flying lap. seb got two but i think because of last weeks error he maybe was a bit conservative. understandably. kimi did look suprisingly strong all quali.


Last edited by Caserole of Nonsense on Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 pm 
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That Merc was mighty in the wet, that's what you get when you work the tyres more.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
It looks like Red Bull built a car that just doesn't work in the rain.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13770 ... ork-in-wet

Hehe, called it. :P


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:37 pm 
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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... i-stoppen/

Even in the rain Ferrari drives on the straight all of them
The GPS data shows exactly where Ferrari loses its time in the rain. Who believes the power advantage of the red rockets shrunk on wet ground, is wrong. Vettel took the Mercedes driver in the rain on the straights 0.4 seconds. Raikkonen made up three tenths on Hamilton and Bottas. But the silver arrows were unbeatable in the bends. They had the tire temperatures perfectly in the window and they benefit from the larger diameter and the other Walk behavior of the rain rubbers. Because Ferrari and Red Bull aerodynamically suffer more, that the rain tires deform when braking and cornering differently than the slicks. This observation could be made again and again in the past years. In addition, the Mercedes engine in the critical conditions is a bit more elastic than the competitive engines.

In qualifying for the Hungarian GP the Englishman was in a class of his own in the corners. He won against Ferrari, especially in the curves below 150 km / h. Hamilton was later on the brakes and earlier on the gas. At the vertex of Turn 2, he made up 5km / h for the two Ferrari drivers. In turns 12, 13 and 14 he took Vettel and Raikkonen over half a second.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Debating the drivers and cars is mostly pointless, it’s all about the tyres. Red Bull are the best at preserving rubber probably as a result of not overheating, hence they struggled in cooler conditions at getting the tyres in the operating window. Merc are harshest on tyres and therefore able to get them in the window quicker. The Ferraris were where they should be.

I remember earlier in the season Brundle talking about an unnamed source in the paddock who said that, sadly, for many of the races it will just be about who uses the tyre best. I still think Pirelli need to go - too often it’s all about them.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:57 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:

In qualifying for the Hungarian GP the Englishman was in a class of his own in the corners. He won against Ferrari, especially in the curves below 150 km / h. Hamilton was later on the brakes and earlier on the gas. At the vertex of Turn 2, he made up 5km / h for the two Ferrari drivers. In turns 12, 13 and 14 he took Vettel and Raikkonen over half a second.

Bottas beat the Ferrari's too.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Of course car characteristics are important in those conditions but rain and variable conditions is also where the great drivers shine and a few out there had a great session today. Bottas is starting to look more and more comfortable in that Merc, but at the same time I also get a sense that losing out to Hamilton by a few 10ths fairly regularly could be starting to test his patience.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:22 pm 
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All this talk about Mercedes being hard on tires seems to be a year late to me. This year tire life has been a strength for Mercedes relative to Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:

In qualifying for the Hungarian GP the Englishman was in a class of his own in the corners. He won against Ferrari, especially in the curves below 150 km / h. Hamilton was later on the brakes and earlier on the gas. At the vertex of Turn 2, he made up 5km / h for the two Ferrari drivers. In turns 12, 13 and 14 he took Vettel and Raikkonen over half a second.

Bottas beat the Ferrari's too.


Amus are reporting Ferrari still have the power advantage in the rain and comparing where Hamilton made up time on the Ferrari’s as he did get pole, mention it to them if you’re so bothered.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:55 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Llotyhy wrote:
It looks like Red Bull built a car that just doesn't work in the rain.



Shocking. They are usually mega in the rain and Max is highly rated in the wet as well.

I'd always wondered if Verstappen is as good as people suggest in the wet or if it was his car giving him grip in wet conditions which no other cars have the ability to find.. I think today is an example that when the car isn't spot on in these conditions, verstappen doesn't look quite as good as we think he is. I really struggle to believe that a toro Rosso witha Honda engine is better than the Red Bull with Renault. I think on this occation, Verstappen just didn't do as well as he could have done.

Verstappen is really strong in the wet but I have always felt that his performance in Brazil was blown out of proportion. He was the only driver in that pack to put on a brand new set of wet tires during that safety car period there and he was MUCH faster than the cars around him because of the fresh rubber (and the fact that they were midfielders and backmarkers). People didn't seem to understand what they were watching there.


Yep bang on


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:58 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:

In qualifying for the Hungarian GP the Englishman was in a class of his own in the corners. He won against Ferrari, especially in the curves below 150 km / h. Hamilton was later on the brakes and earlier on the gas. At the vertex of Turn 2, he made up 5km / h for the two Ferrari drivers. In turns 12, 13 and 14 he took Vettel and Raikkonen over half a second.

Bottas beat the Ferrari's too.


Amus are reporting Ferrari still have the power advantage in the rain and comparing where Hamilton made up time on the Ferrari’s as he did get pole, mention it to them if you’re so bothered.

How’s he bothered? He just pointed out that it wasn’t only Hamilton that beat the Ferraris.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:

In qualifying for the Hungarian GP the Englishman was in a class of his own in the corners. He won against Ferrari, especially in the curves below 150 km / h. Hamilton was later on the brakes and earlier on the gas. At the vertex of Turn 2, he made up 5km / h for the two Ferrari drivers. In turns 12, 13 and 14 he took Vettel and Raikkonen over half a second.

Bottas beat the Ferrari's too.


Amus are reporting Ferrari still have the power advantage in the rain and comparing where Hamilton made up time on the Ferrari’s as he did get pole, mention it to them if you’re so bothered.

How’s he bothered? He just pointed out that it wasn’t only Hamilton that beat the Ferraris.


Don’t see any point in mentioning it unless you are bothered. If you read that part of the article it’s comparing Mercedes and Ferrari, why would you use the slower Mercedes? :?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:18 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:

In qualifying for the Hungarian GP the Englishman was in a class of his own in the corners. He won against Ferrari, especially in the curves below 150 km / h. Hamilton was later on the brakes and earlier on the gas. At the vertex of Turn 2, he made up 5km / h for the two Ferrari drivers. In turns 12, 13 and 14 he took Vettel and Raikkonen over half a second.

Bottas beat the Ferrari's too.


Amus are reporting Ferrari still have the power advantage in the rain and comparing where Hamilton made up time on the Ferrari’s as he did get pole, mention it to them if you’re so bothered.

How’s he bothered? He just pointed out that it wasn’t only Hamilton that beat the Ferraris.


Don’t see any point in mentioning it unless you are bothered. If you read that part of the article it’s comparing Mercedes and Ferrari, why would you use the slower Mercedes? :?

I didn't realise your post was a quote from the article, it's also a German translation which I imagine is where the issue comes from. My bad.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:40 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:
Kimi's last ditch lap to get him into Q3 was probably the best lap of the session. It's a real shame he (apparently) lost out in traffic on his final lap. He looked super strong all the way through.

Yes I´d love to see the in-car of his Q2 lap.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Apart from Mercedes boys, STR drivers had really good showing, both of them. 6th and 8th is quite unexpected and worthy of credit, specially if you remember that Hartley was on the brink of being sacked about a month and a half ago. Colossal achievement.
Sainz looked well too, shame that Hulkenberg lost in the Q2 roulette, it would be interesting to compare them in Q3.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:06 am 
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LBET wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Ahh.... Love truly does conquer all

:lol: He's probably thanking god for the rain.

The love of God is actually a thing.

Undeniably it's a thing.

There's just no evidence it's a REAL thing.

And what God's he talking about anyway?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:14 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
LBET wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Ahh.... Love truly does conquer all

:lol: He's probably thanking god for the rain.

The love of God is actually a thing.

Undeniably it's a thing.

There's just no evidence it's a REAL thing.

And what God's he talking about anyway?

To be fair, there's also no evidence it isn't a real thing.

Plenty of reason to think that real or not it doesn't affect race results, however.

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PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:42 am 
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Location: Far side of Koozebane
Exediron wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
LBET wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Ahh.... Love truly does conquer all

:lol: He's probably thanking god for the rain.

The love of God is actually a thing.

Undeniably it's a thing.

There's just no evidence it's a REAL thing.

And what God's he talking about anyway?

To be fair, there's also no evidence it isn't a real thing.


There burden of proof lies with those making a claim Exed.

There's no evidence my Dog can't recite the complete works of Shakespeare in ancient Arabic but everyone would think I was a nut case if I went around swearing it was fact.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:58 am 
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Let’s not go there.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:03 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Let’s not go there.

I looked at the forum rules before responding, and surprisingly enough religious discussion is actually not against them. However, since it does have absolutely nothing to do with qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix, I agree this isn't the place for it.

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PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (3 wins, 12 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


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