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Which driver won each intra-team battle in Germany?
Poll ended at Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:19 am
Hamilton 11%  11%  [ 37 ]
Bottas 1%  1%  [ 5 ]
Vettel 2%  2%  [ 6 ]
Raikkonen 11%  11%  [ 37 ]
Ricciardo 1%  1%  [ 4 ]
Verstappen 9%  9%  [ 33 ]
Perez 4%  4%  [ 15 ]
Ocon 4%  4%  [ 15 ]
Stroll 2%  2%  [ 6 ]
Sirotkin 6%  6%  [ 21 ]
Sainz 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Hulkenberg 10%  10%  [ 36 ]
Gasly 1%  1%  [ 5 ]
Hartley 7%  7%  [ 24 ]
Grosjean 7%  7%  [ 23 ]
Magnussen 3%  3%  [ 10 ]
Alonso 10%  10%  [ 34 ]
Vandoorne 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Ericsson 8%  8%  [ 27 ]
Leclerc 2%  2%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 348
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:05 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Leclerc over Ericsson. Quicker all weekend, and just screwed over by the inter strategy.

Sorry to come to Ericsson's defence again. I'll agree Leclerc was much better in qualifying. And also better in the first part of the race. The race indeed was ruined by what the team did, but I thught he asked for this. But he got put back onto the same tyres Ericsson had changed to (ultras) And he spun, twice on these, which Ericsson didn't. Not badly the first time, but the 2nd spin cost him a lot of time and one or two places. That part of the race of the race was a mess of his own making. And Ericsson actually was pretty impressive at this stage like Grosjean. Leclerc didn't look quicker here. In this instance (one of the few) I think it is a bit unfair to vote Leclerc over Ericsson.

If he did indeed pick the strategy himself, then I agree it's his fault. Otherwise, I think his performance over the rest of the race would have seen him finish ahead anyway, albeit by a narrower margin than if it hadn't rained. Ericsson was quite strong in the wet-to-dry part of the race, I agree.


Well I myself thought that Leclerc could well have continued to look better if conditions were like they were to start with. But it wasn't his strategy that caused him to make mistakes. He spun twice when he was back on suitable tyres. If he had gone off like he did the 2nd time even if he hadn't pitted for inters and Ericsson put in the same performance he did, it actually is very likely he'll have beaten him on this occasion.

Just before Leclerc came in to pit for inters, he was about 15 seconds ahead of Ericsson. Yes, a fair chunk. But because Leclerc happened to be at near the back on his ultras (through no fault of his own) when he spun and lost a huge amount of time, it won't have looked to have as negative an impact to his race as if he was still where he would have been if not for his pit stop. if this had been when he was up ahead of Ericsson, it will have pretty much dropped right down anyway.
He was around 10 seconds behind Vandoorne after he got back onto suitable tyres. Then that grew as he was struggling to keep control. Then the gap between him and Vandoorne eventually got to 60 seconds! And the gap between them kept increasing. Alonso very soon got Leclerc, as did Gasly. And it was only due to Alonso pitting again that leclerc didn't finish last. Meanwhile, Ericsson on older ultras was challenging Ocon very got past some others too. I'm wondering if Leclerc damaged his car by going into the gravel or something as his pace near the end didn't look right. But I'd say the performance Ericsson had over him near the end of the race was quite a bit better than what Leclerc had over Ericsson at the start. (when you take into consideration the tyre life difference)

When they both started the race, Ericsson wasn't much slower at all really during Leclerc's in the first stint. Ericsson was only just over 3 seconds behind Leclerc by lap 21. At this stage, I can't really say Leclerc was a lot quicker like some people here seem to be implying. Once he pitted, then yes, he was far quicker, but is this not to be expected? But I'll have to say, Leclerc at this stage did look really impressive. He did do a lot of overtakes and pretty quickly caught Ericsson and got past. The team, (or possibly him) wanted to stop for the inters. That certainly would have ruined his race either way. But in my comparisons, I'm not really looking into that. His own messy race started after that. It may have been pressure getting to him that caused him to spin a couple of times, but that still unfortunately has to be seen as a negative to his race

So all in all, I'd say Leclerc was extremely good in qualifying as he has been for quite some time now. A good start to the race, though throughout his first stint, I don't think he looked much quicker than Ericsson. His 2nd stint was very good. His next stint was unlucky, but not sure if he asked for it or not. And after that, his race was very poor.

Ericsson again was pretty weak and way behind Leclerc in qualifying and was trying too hard. Had a pretty lucky escape. First stint in the race looked pretty good and he managed to make the tyres last quite some time. And this was worth doing. Then after he pitted, once the rain came, he looked like one of the highlights of the race. Though I'll admit that is rare from him. He's never impressed in the rain before IMO.



It is pretty obvious really who did better this weekend. But of course we can all think different. I myself very often defend Ericsson. Many get sick of me doing this. I think that Leclerc has been significantly better in qualifying ever since Baku. And in most races too. But Ericsson has looked much better to me for once so I thought I'd make a point :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:06 am 
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Rockie wrote:
The biggest problem with the polls here is simple, people can see the result and comments before they vote hence will interfere with it.
If the result is only available to you after you vote then it becomes realistic.

Jenson has already explained that there are big swings in votes one way then the other for all the drivers, so basically a big majority of people are voting fairly which greatly offsets the few rabid fanboys or haters thus making their attempts to sabotage somewhat meaningless.

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2013: 5th Place
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2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:40 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
The biggest problem with the polls here is simple, people can see the result and comments before they vote hence will interfere with it.
If the result is only available to you after you vote then it becomes realistic.

Jenson has already explained that there are big swings in votes one way then the other for all the drivers, so basically a big majority of people are voting fairly which greatly offsets the few rabid fanboys or haters thus making their attempts to sabotage somewhat meaningless.

Well, any drivers I'm unsure about, I don't end up voting for even if one driver has far more than their team mate. But yes, others could well vote because of the current amount of votes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:23 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
The biggest problem with the polls here is simple, people can see the result and comments before they vote hence will interfere with it.
If the result is only available to you after you vote then it becomes realistic.

Jenson has already explained that there are big swings in votes one way then the other for all the drivers, so basically a big majority of people are voting fairly which greatly offsets the few rabid fanboys or haters thus making their attempts to sabotage somewhat meaningless.

Well, any drivers I'm unsure about, I don't end up voting for even if one driver has far more than their team mate. But yes, others could well vote because of the current amount of votes.

I don't understand your last sentence, likewise I tend not to vote for any of the Williams drivers because I've totally switched off how the drivers are performing because of the abysmal performance.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1473
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
The biggest problem with the polls here is simple, people can see the result and comments before they vote hence will interfere with it.
If the result is only available to you after you vote then it becomes realistic.

Jenson has already explained that there are big swings in votes one way then the other for all the drivers, so basically a big majority of people are voting fairly which greatly offsets the few rabid fanboys or haters thus making their attempts to sabotage somewhat meaningless.

Well, any drivers I'm unsure about, I don't end up voting for even if one driver has far more than their team mate. But yes, others could well vote because of the current amount of votes.

I don't understand your last sentence, likewise I tend not to vote for any of the Williams drivers because I've totally switched off how the drivers are performing because of the abysmal performance.

I think i meant to reply to rockie. What I first read it as was people voting based on the curent number of votes influencing their decision. Thought what I think I should have realised was that it was the comments roockie said end up messing things up. I am one of those who almost always writ a few things dwn before deciding. But I don't see what the issue with that is. But maybe it does change some peoples views.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:53 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
The biggest problem with the polls here is simple, people can see the result and comments before they vote hence will interfere with it.
If the result is only available to you after you vote then it becomes realistic.

Jenson has already explained that there are big swings in votes one way then the other for all the drivers, so basically a big majority of people are voting fairly which greatly offsets the few rabid fanboys or haters thus making their attempts to sabotage somewhat meaningless.

Well, any drivers I'm unsure about, I don't end up voting for even if one driver has far more than their team mate. But yes, others could well vote because of the current amount of votes.

I don't understand your last sentence, likewise I tend not to vote for any of the Williams drivers because I've totally switched off how the drivers are performing because of the abysmal performance.

I think i meant to reply to rockie. What I first read it as was people voting based on the curent number of votes influencing their decision. Thought what I think I should have realised was that it was the comments roockie said end up messing things up. I am one of those who almost always writ a few things dwn before deciding. But I don't see what the issue with that is. But maybe it does change some peoples views.

I can only think that in cases were people are not sure they might look to see how other people might have voted like I said with me I'm never sure how the Williams drivers have performed because I guess I don't care.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:29 am 
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Posts: 3024
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Well, any drivers I'm unsure about, I don't end up voting for even if one driver has far more than their team mate. But yes, others could well vote because of the current amount of votes.

I don't understand your last sentence, likewise I tend not to vote for any of the Williams drivers because I've totally switched off how the drivers are performing because of the abysmal performance.

I think i meant to reply to rockie. What I first read it as was people voting based on the curent number of votes influencing their decision. Thought what I think I should have realised was that it was the comments roockie said end up messing things up. I am one of those who almost always writ a few things dwn before deciding. But I don't see what the issue with that is. But maybe it does change some peoples views.

I can only think that in cases were people are not sure they might look to see how other people might have voted like I said with me I'm never sure how the Williams drivers have performed because I guess I don't care.


Well, in terms of total votes:

Ferrari: 368
Mercedes: 359
Red Bull: 355
McLaren: 342
Renault: 328
Sauber: 322
Haas: 315
Force India: 305
Toro Rosso: 295
Williams: 289

What does that tell us? The three most prominent teams have received the three most votes, which isn't a surprise at all. McLaren up in fourth is no doubt partly because it has been so obvious every race weekend who deserved the vote that there is no reason not to vote. I'd argue the only reason surprise is Haas having so few votes, partly because most weekends Magnussen has been comprehensively ahead of Grosjean (or Romain has made a mistake which has made it very difficult to justify voting for him), but also because they've had very few weekends where they've flown under the radar.

With Williams, for me I probably put more stock into their qualifying performances than I do any other team. Once the race begins they're so far behind that it's easier to lose track of their performance, but more importantly they're usually amongst the first to get lapped, at which point their races are compromised letting other cars through.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Well, any drivers I'm unsure about, I don't end up voting for even if one driver has far more than their team mate. But yes, others could well vote because of the current amount of votes.

I don't understand your last sentence, likewise I tend not to vote for any of the Williams drivers because I've totally switched off how the drivers are performing because of the abysmal performance.

I think i meant to reply to rockie. What I first read it as was people voting based on the curent number of votes influencing their decision. Thought what I think I should have realised was that it was the comments roockie said end up messing things up. I am one of those who almost always writ a few things dwn before deciding. But I don't see what the issue with that is. But maybe it does change some peoples views.

I can only think that in cases were people are not sure they might look to see how other people might have voted like I said with me I'm never sure how the Williams drivers have performed because I guess I don't care.


Well, in terms of total votes:

Ferrari: 368
Mercedes: 359
Red Bull: 355
McLaren: 342
Renault: 328
Sauber: 322
Haas: 315
Force India: 305
Toro Rosso: 295
Williams: 289

What does that tell us? The three most prominent teams have received the three most votes, which isn't a surprise at all. McLaren up in fourth is no doubt partly because it has been so obvious every race weekend who deserved the vote that there is no reason not to vote. I'd argue the only reason surprise is Haas having so few votes, partly because most weekends Magnussen has been comprehensively ahead of Grosjean (or Romain has made a mistake which has made it very difficult to justify voting for him), but also because they've had very few weekends where they've flown under the radar.

With Williams, for me I probably put more stock into their qualifying performances than I do any other team. Once the race begins they're so far behind that it's easier to lose track of their performance, but more importantly they're usually amongst the first to get lapped, at which point their races are compromised letting other cars through.

I think it shows that quite a few people are only interested with what's going on near the front and have little idea what's happening further down the grid.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:33 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I don't understand your last sentence, likewise I tend not to vote for any of the Williams drivers because I've totally switched off how the drivers are performing because of the abysmal performance.

I think i meant to reply to rockie. What I first read it as was people voting based on the curent number of votes influencing their decision. Thought what I think I should have realised was that it was the comments roockie said end up messing things up. I am one of those who almost always writ a few things dwn before deciding. But I don't see what the issue with that is. But maybe it does change some peoples views.

I can only think that in cases were people are not sure they might look to see how other people might have voted like I said with me I'm never sure how the Williams drivers have performed because I guess I don't care.


Well, in terms of total votes:

Ferrari: 368
Mercedes: 359
Red Bull: 355
McLaren: 342
Renault: 328
Sauber: 322
Haas: 315
Force India: 305
Toro Rosso: 295
Williams: 289

What does that tell us? The three most prominent teams have received the three most votes, which isn't a surprise at all. McLaren up in fourth is no doubt partly because it has been so obvious every race weekend who deserved the vote that there is no reason not to vote. I'd argue the only reason surprise is Haas having so few votes, partly because most weekends Magnussen has been comprehensively ahead of Grosjean (or Romain has made a mistake which has made it very difficult to justify voting for him), but also because they've had very few weekends where they've flown under the radar.

With Williams, for me I probably put more stock into their qualifying performances than I do any other team. Once the race begins they're so far behind that it's easier to lose track of their performance, but more importantly they're usually amongst the first to get lapped, at which point their races are compromised letting other cars through.

I think it shows that quite a few people are only interested with what's going on near the front and have little idea what's happening further down the grid.

I'd agree with that. Othr than that I think it is a huge lack of coverage that doesn't show much of the drivers at the back. Rather than some not being intersted enough to vote. I often end up not voting if the drivers haven't been shown much on the coverage. Not because I just am intersted in what happens near the front.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:40 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I think i meant to reply to rockie. What I first read it as was people voting based on the curent number of votes influencing their decision. Thought what I think I should have realised was that it was the comments roockie said end up messing things up. I am one of those who almost always writ a few things dwn before deciding. But I don't see what the issue with that is. But maybe it does change some peoples views.

I can only think that in cases were people are not sure they might look to see how other people might have voted like I said with me I'm never sure how the Williams drivers have performed because I guess I don't care.


Well, in terms of total votes:

Ferrari: 368
Mercedes: 359
Red Bull: 355
McLaren: 342
Renault: 328
Sauber: 322
Haas: 315
Force India: 305
Toro Rosso: 295
Williams: 289

What does that tell us? The three most prominent teams have received the three most votes, which isn't a surprise at all. McLaren up in fourth is no doubt partly because it has been so obvious every race weekend who deserved the vote that there is no reason not to vote. I'd argue the only reason surprise is Haas having so few votes, partly because most weekends Magnussen has been comprehensively ahead of Grosjean (or Romain has made a mistake which has made it very difficult to justify voting for him), but also because they've had very few weekends where they've flown under the radar.

With Williams, for me I probably put more stock into their qualifying performances than I do any other team. Once the race begins they're so far behind that it's easier to lose track of their performance, but more importantly they're usually amongst the first to get lapped, at which point their races are compromised letting other cars through.

I think it shows that quite a few people are only interested with what's going on near the front and have little idea what's happening further down the grid.

I'd agree with that. Othr than that I think it is a huge lack of coverage that doesn't show much of the drivers at the back. Rather than some not being intersted enough to vote. I often end up not voting if the drivers haven't been shown much on the coverage. Not because I just am intersted in what happens near the front.

Well do you really want to watch Stroll and Sirotkin fighting against Vandoorne and Hartley?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I'd agree with that. Othr than that I think it is a huge lack of coverage that doesn't show much of the drivers at the back. Rather than some not being intersted enough to vote. I often end up not voting if the drivers haven't been shown much on the coverage. Not because I just am intersted in what happens near the front.

Well do you really want to watch Stroll and Sirotkin fighting against Vandoorne and Hartley?

Yes, actually, if the fight is good. I'd rather watch that than the leader driving around at the front, or lapping traffic.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I'd agree with that. Othr than that I think it is a huge lack of coverage that doesn't show much of the drivers at the back. Rather than some not being intersted enough to vote. I often end up not voting if the drivers haven't been shown much on the coverage. Not because I just am intersted in what happens near the front.

Well do you really want to watch Stroll and Sirotkin fighting against Vandoorne and Hartley?

Yes, actually, if the fight is good. I'd rather watch that than the leader driving around at the front, or lapping traffic.

I personally wouldn't care about watching the 4 slowest drivers and I emphasis drivers as opposed to cars.

There's other cars to watch rather than just the leader like the competitive midfield.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:12 pm 
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Qualifying score midway the season, source is reddit.com/r/formula1

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:23 pm 
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I’m surprised by two things:

1. How close the Mercedes battle is
2. How lopsided the Red Bull battle is

This leads me to one question: is Ricciardo actually an upgrade on Bottas?

Ricciardo definitely has better racecraft than Bottas, but is he actually any faster? Bottas impressed me enormously today. Hamilton is a master in the rain and around Hungaroring, yet Bottas was only 0.2s behind. I honestly doubt Ricciardo would have done any better. In order to believe that Ricciardo is faster than Bottas, you would have to believe that Verstappen is faster than Hamilton. That’s an assumption I’m not willing to make yet.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:48 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I’m surprised by two things:

1. How close the Mercedes battle is
2. How lopsided the Red Bull battle is

This leads me to one question: is Ricciardo actually an upgrade on Bottas?

Ricciardo definitely has better racecraft than Bottas, but is he actually any faster? Bottas impressed me enormously today. Hamilton is a master in the rain and around Hungaroring, yet Bottas was only 0.2s behind. I honestly doubt Ricciardo would have done any better. In order to believe that Ricciardo is faster than Bottas, you would have to believe that Verstappen is faster than Hamilton. That’s an assumption I’m not willing to make yet.

You only have to believe that Hamilton hasn't been performing at his best. He's had quite a few off weekends in terms of pace where Bottas has got the upper hand especially over 1 lap which is normally a strong point for Hamilton. He's fortunate that Vettel has been making mistakes so far this year.

Ricciardo would almost certainly be an upgrade on Bottas overall IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:43 am 
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When I set the poll up, I completely forgot the Hungarian GP was the following weekend. Usually if there is another race the next Sunday I'll run the poll for less days to ensure it finishes prior to that. So what I'm going to do is take the result of the poll as it currently stands and unofficially close the vote.

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