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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
And what on earth makes you think Ferrari could've poled Singapore in 2014? They were 4th fastest, behind Mercedes,Red Bull and Williams, yet anytime Alonso gets within half a second of a pole it should be his, it's like we're back in 2012 again.

Raikkonen was fastest in Q1 and 0.041s slower than Hamilton in Q2. Rosberg was a few tenths faster only because he did a second run in Q2 when the circuit was at its best. Then in the first run in Q3, Raikkonen was only 0.070s off pole. Ferrari were consistently up there throughout the qualifying session. If Alonso had even 2 tenths on Kimi, it would have been enough for pole position. But when the car is better, Alonso’s advantage over his teammates shrinks.

Ferrari was almost certainly not slower than Williams, and at least on par with Red Bull in that qualifying session.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:42 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
And what on earth makes you think Ferrari could've poled Singapore in 2014? They were 4th fastest, behind Mercedes,Red Bull and Williams, yet anytime Alonso gets within half a second of a pole it should be his, it's like we're back in 2012 again.

Raikkonen was fastest in Q1 and 0.041s slower than Hamilton in Q2. Rosberg was a few tenths faster only because he did a second run in Q2 when the circuit was at its best. Then in the first run in Q3, Raikkonen was only 0.070s off pole. Ferrari were consistently up there throughout the qualifying session. If Alonso had even 2 tenths on Kimi, it would have been enough for pole position. But when the car is better, Alonso’s advantage over his teammates shrinks.

Ferrari was almost certainly not slower than Williams, and at least on par with Red Bull in that qualifying session.


The Mercs didn't have good runs in the first run in Q3, they were 6th and 7th so using Kīmi's time is a bit misleading, both Mercs improved by nearly half a second in the last runs and Lewis's lap included a lock up at T1 he said cost him 2ths so Alonso should've been half a second behind and he himself had a good lap.

No chance Ferrari had half a second left on the table that day, Seb did make a mistake on his last run but was still quicker than Alonso's Ferrari so the Red Bulls had more on offer and Massa was less than a tenth behind Alonso's lap so I'd lean toward the Williams being quicker too but it's not impossible he just nailed one, he did beat Bottas so fair enough.

No chance the Ferrari's were beating Mercedes or Red Bull's though so the pole was never there unless all 4 drivers threw it away even worse than they tried too.

When the cars better all team mate advantages shrink not just Alonso's, big advantages come through mistakes more often than outright pace and the better your car is the easier it is too drive. You have better balance,handling, more d/f and more power so there's less things going wrong to catch a driver out.

His strength is not making those mistakes even when the car is poor, Stoff talked about it recently that he's able to get 99% out of the car whatever the struggles so we do see big gaps when the car is at it's worst, that happened in the first half of 2012 and middle of 2013 when the rear was poor and Massa couldn't cope as well.

When the car's better the driver who was making mistakes isn't anymore and so can extract more from the car again, why that is put down to Alonso suddenly not being able to extract 99% anymore rather than the error prone driver not having as many mistakes in a better car is beyond me. That was the narrative in 2012 when Massa was closer when the coanda was fixed in the second half as well and it still doesn't make sense.

The better the car the less likely a weaker driver will make mistakes so he can now extract more of the potential. Alonso's still getting the 99%, he hasn't gone backwards just because the car is better, that makes no sense.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:40 am 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
AravJ wrote:
Despite all the evidence of performance with Renault PU and now the senior overhaul some people will still believe last year's car was could fight top three. People just don't want to admit being wrong. Even Zak is half and half. He said"Did we have a better chassis? It would be hard to say definitively yes or no but we know we have less downforce than last year."Like what is that supposed to mean, did they have even more drag last year, if his technical team cannot tell him for sure then last year's car must have been a dud. Zak should also go if he believes firing people 8 months after the last time they might have had a better chassis is a good thing to do.
He should properly own up and be an example if he wants to fix systemic issues, accountability and ways of working.
Else mclaren have very little hope of returning to the top no matter who they hire or fire

Eric resigned, he wasn't fired!


He was fired.

http://www.f1i.com/news/309929-boullier ... brown.html - he took the decision to resign, though discussed it with Zak.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... anges.html - he resigned.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13719 ... chief-role - more ambiguous, but fits neatly with the F1i narrative.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/boullier- ... -campaign/ - this is the only article I can find that contradicts the above views, and does so with limited evidence.

In other words, he resigned, so stop claiming otherwise.


Why should I stop? I will continue saying what I believe.

It is highly common for forcing people to resign to save face instead of firing them. So "resigning" in an of itself doesn't tell anything at all.

If you look at the circumstances leading up to it, it is obvious he was fired. Just a couple of weeks ago he was trying to convince Daily Mail that he has a great success record and won't be leaving. A person who is thinking of leaving doesn't get desperate and try to convince others he's not bad at his job. He wasn't asked this question, so he had no reason to go into that detail. Watch the interview again. If he was thinking of resigning and the discussions was on-going, he would've never gone on that tangent.

Also, it happened in the middle of the season. Why'd a guy say he's good a couple of weeks ago and then resign mid-season like a loser? Given how passionate he was about his achievements, I don't think he'd like to show that he ran away with his tail between his legs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
So, according to autosport Gasly called Honda's straightline power deficit "crazy" while Verstappen compares his engine to F2.


Paolo, do you have a link for that?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:15 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
AravJ wrote:
Despite all the evidence of performance with Renault PU and now the senior overhaul some people will still believe last year's car was could fight top three. People just don't want to admit being wrong. Even Zak is half and half. He said"Did we have a better chassis? It would be hard to say definitively yes or no but we know we have less downforce than last year."Like what is that supposed to mean, did they have even more drag last year, if his technical team cannot tell him for sure then last year's car must have been a dud. Zak should also go if he believes firing people 8 months after the last time they might have had a better chassis is a good thing to do.
He should properly own up and be an example if he wants to fix systemic issues, accountability and ways of working.
Else mclaren have very little hope of returning to the top no matter who they hire or fire

Eric resigned, he wasn't fired!


He was fired.

http://www.f1i.com/news/309929-boullier ... brown.html - he took the decision to resign, though discussed it with Zak.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... anges.html - he resigned.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13719 ... chief-role - more ambiguous, but fits neatly with the F1i narrative.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/boullier- ... -campaign/ - this is the only article I can find that contradicts the above views, and does so with limited evidence.

In other words, he resigned, so stop claiming otherwise.


Why should I stop? I will continue saying what I believe.

It is highly common for forcing people to resign to save face instead of firing them. So "resigning" in an of itself doesn't tell anything at all.

If you look at the circumstances leading up to it, it is obvious he was fired. Just a couple of weeks ago he was trying to convince Daily Mail that he has a great success record and won't be leaving. A person who is thinking of leaving doesn't get desperate and try to convince others he's not bad at his job. He wasn't asked this question, so he had no reason to go into that detail. Watch the interview again. If he was thinking of resigning and the discussions was on-going, he would've never gone on that tangent.

Also, it happened in the middle of the season. Why'd a guy say he's good a couple of weeks ago and then resign mid-season like a loser? Given how passionate he was about his achievements, I don't think he'd like to show that he ran away with his tail between his legs.


That may be true, but officially he resigned, so no point arguing that. Schumacher was pushed into retirement by Ferrari, but officially he retired.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:54 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
AravJ wrote:
Despite all the evidence of performance with Renault PU and now the senior overhaul some people will still believe last year's car was could fight top three. People just don't want to admit being wrong. Even Zak is half and half. He said"Did we have a better chassis? It would be hard to say definitively yes or no but we know we have less downforce than last year."Like what is that supposed to mean, did they have even more drag last year, if his technical team cannot tell him for sure then last year's car must have been a dud. Zak should also go if he believes firing people 8 months after the last time they might have had a better chassis is a good thing to do.
He should properly own up and be an example if he wants to fix systemic issues, accountability and ways of working.
Else mclaren have very little hope of returning to the top no matter who they hire or fire

Eric resigned, he wasn't fired!


He was fired.

http://www.f1i.com/news/309929-boullier ... brown.html - he took the decision to resign, though discussed it with Zak.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... anges.html - he resigned.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13719 ... chief-role - more ambiguous, but fits neatly with the F1i narrative.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/boullier- ... -campaign/ - this is the only article I can find that contradicts the above views, and does so with limited evidence.

In other words, he resigned, so stop claiming otherwise.


Why should I stop? I will continue saying what I believe.

Because all the evidence says the opposite. You might be right about him being pushed out, but there's very little evidence and certainly not enough for you to state it as fact. That is why we're asking you to stop.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:18 pm 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
Because all the evidence says the opposite. You might be right about him being pushed out, but there's very little evidence and certainly not enough for you to state it as fact. That is why we're asking you to stop.


What the hell? Asking me to stop? Jesus.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:37 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Because all the evidence says the opposite. You might be right about him being pushed out, but there's very little evidence and certainly not enough for you to state it as fact. That is why we're asking you to stop.


What the hell? Asking me to stop? Jesus.


If I may barge in, I think the difference is "He was fired" as opposed to "I think he was fired". One is an opinion, the other is stating a fact, one that we just are not sure about. Maybe the P-F1 Mod sounds a bit harsh here, but I think this is what he means.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:44 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Because all the evidence says the opposite. You might be right about him being pushed out, but there's very little evidence and certainly not enough for you to state it as fact. That is why we're asking you to stop.


What the hell? Asking me to stop? Jesus.


You have zero proof that your claim is true, thus posting stuff like that is potentially libelous and can land the website in a lot of hot water. It's in the rules, which you should already be aware of.

It's also fairly good practice to, y'know, take the hint when the lead moderator of the forum asks you to stop posting such things nicely.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Because all the evidence says the opposite. You might be right about him being pushed out, but there's very little evidence and certainly not enough for you to state it as fact. That is why we're asking you to stop.


What the hell? Asking me to stop? Jesus.


If I may barge in, I think the difference is "He was fired" as opposed to "I think he was fired". One is an opinion, the other is stating a fact, one that we just are not sure about. Maybe the P-F1 Mod sounds a bit harsh here, but I think this is what he means.


I don't think P-F1 Mod is being harsh at all... Actually, I think he/she is showing great patience.

You are quite right, Siao in the difference between fact and opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Thank you, Yellow. Blake, Siao7, you've both hit the nail on the head there. If we can get back on topic now that would be great.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:39 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
So, according to autosport Gasly called Honda's straightline power deficit "crazy" while Verstappen compares his engine to F2.


Paolo, do you have a link for that?


www.autosport.com


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:26 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
So, according to autosport Gasly called Honda's straightline power deficit "crazy" while Verstappen compares his engine to F2.


Paolo, do you have a link for that?


http://www.autosport.com

Can you give us the article rather than the site please? I can't find anything.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Just to save everyone some bother

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13728 ... ghts-crazy


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:20 pm 
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That link took me to a story about Gasly complaining about the Honda PU.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:28 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
That link took me to a story about Gasly complaining about the Honda PU.

Where did you expect it to take you? It was posted in response to this...

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
So, according to autosport Gasly called Honda's straightline power deficit "crazy" while Verstappen compares his engine to F2.
Siao7 wrote:
Paolo, do you have a link for that?

Seems pretty relevant to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:47 pm 
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All of which has WHAT to do with Boullier leaving McLaren???

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:48 am 
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Blake wrote:
All of which has WHAT to do with Boullier leaving McLaren???

That’s what I was thinking.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:35 am 
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Thank you Paolo, Mods.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:58 am 
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So, back on track in this thread.

I remembered this article:

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/23891 ... blem-areas

Zac Brown swears that everyone will stay until the last race of the season in AD. He also said that the Toyota wind tunnel is not the issue with the car's problems, rather an inherent aero issue that they can't exactly pinpoint. The wind tunnel never gives an exact answer, nothing translates/replicates 100%. It's a good indication, but you need the track tests in order to see if the car behaves as intended. I know this first hand, I did my Uni dissertation in a wind tunnel experiment and it was exactly the same scenario.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
So, back on track in this thread.

I remembered this article:

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/23891 ... blem-areas

Zac Brown swears that everyone will stay until the last race of the season in AD. He also said that the Toyota wind tunnel is not the issue with the car's problems, rather an inherent aero issue that they can't exactly pinpoint. The wind tunnel never gives an exact answer, nothing translates/replicates 100%. It's a good indication, but you need the track tests in order to see if the car behaves as intended. I know this first hand, I did my Uni dissertation in a wind tunnel experiment and it was exactly the same scenario.


Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

I want to believe... :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

I want to believe... :uhoh:


I am almost positive I heard Ben Edwards say the same on the C4 coverage. The parts were to heavy to keep on the car and were only for test purposes


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

I want to believe... :uhoh:


Same but even if they've now figured out the aero issue they are so many weeks behind Renault/Haas/Force India in development that they'll be playing catch up for a while I fear. They'll be bringing their halted but now tweaked Canada/France upgrades while the others are already running them and will be bringing their own Hungary ones on top of that so we might not even notice a difference at first I fear.

But finding the issue took long enough so at least if true it's been found then that's a start so next years new wings should at least start on the right footing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:36 am 
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Thanks Lotus49, I also want to believe, Macca should be a front runner in an ideal world!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:56 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

I want to believe... :uhoh:


As macca are my favorite team I really, really hope so too.

Could we be seeing Alonso back next year after all?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:49 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

I want to believe... :uhoh:


As macca are my favorite team I really, really hope so too.

Could we be seeing Alonso back next year after all?

Be great if it's true, then all we need is Williams to figure their issues out too...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

I want to believe... :uhoh:


As macca are my favorite team I really, really hope so too.

Could we be seeing Alonso back next year after all?


Apparently we will. Honda HRD (Indy) allegedly* aren't prepared to run a Toyota driver I read elsewhere and McLaren's potential partners for Indy are all Honda powered and his contract with Toyota runs beyond next years 500 so he'll have to wait until 2020 for another Indy bash so he'll stay at Macca for another year I think as there's no point leaving if he can't try to complete the triple. (*Think it originally came from Joe Saward)

Only other possibility is Renault but unless they think they're going to be close enough to challenge I don't think they'll move for him.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:11 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

I want to believe... :uhoh:


As macca are my favorite team I really, really hope so too.

Could we be seeing Alonso back next year after all?


If he does return, it will be by default, since McLaren is the only team willing put up with hi, since Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red Bull will not sign him. I can only see Renault since his past success there and being a factory team. Maybe Haas and that will be the closest to Ferrari he would get :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:08 am 
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:uhoh:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Apparently some (black) test wings and bargeboards made from non racing material were tested during the Austrian GP that finally delivered the correct numbers so the upgrades will be flowing again from Hungary.

At least that's what AMuS reckoned through a source so hopefully they found the issue.

I want to believe... :uhoh:


As macca are my favorite team I really, really hope so too.

Could we be seeing Alonso back next year after all?


Apparently we will. Honda HRD (Indy) allegedly* aren't prepared to run a Toyota driver I read elsewhere and McLaren's potential partners for Indy are all Honda powered and his contract with Toyota runs beyond next years 500 so he'll have to wait until 2020 for another Indy bash so he'll stay at Macca for another year I think as there's no point leaving if he can't try to complete the triple. (*Think it originally came from Joe Saward)

Only other possibility is Renault but unless they think they're going to be close enough to challenge I don't think they'll move for him.



I'm pretty sure some of the Honda bosses said they are open to work with Alonso again in Indy.


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