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Which of these fine pilots is the best?
Valtteri Bottas 19%  19%  [ 11 ]
Nico Rosberg 81%  81%  [ 48 ]
Total votes : 59
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:49 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Looking back to the tail end of last season, Bottas has really matched Hamilton over the last 9 races. Did Rosberg ever have a run against him that good in comparison after 2013?

Japan 2015 until Spain 2016 was quite a good run for him. That's 11 races I think.


Mexico - Russia you mean? Surely? Hamilton won the three races before that Japan, Russia, USA. That would be 7 races.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:07 am 
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As we saw at Baku, the final result doesn’t always tell the whole story.

Russia 2015 - Rosberg was leading before his car failed

USA 2015 - Rosberg was clearly faster than Hamilton but the SC slashed his 10 second lead. He did make a mistake but that doesn’t change his underlying pace advantage that race.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:13 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
As we saw at Baku, the final result doesn’t always tell the whole story.

Russia 2015 - Rosberg was leading before his car failed

USA 2015 - Rosberg was clearly faster than Hamilton but the SC slashed his 10 second lead. He did make a mistake but that doesn’t change his underlying pace advantage that race.


Yes it's all subjective of course. I guess my point would be that currently Bottas looks as good as Rosberg ever did. The question is can he maintain it?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:45 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Looking back to the tail end of last season, Bottas has really matched Hamilton over the last 9 races. Did Rosberg ever have a run against him that good in comparison after 2013?


I know the direct comparison is between Bottas and Rosberg against Hamilton but Bottas this season has had to worry about 2 cars which have been faster so far and 2 which can be match or better like Monaco. Rosberg races are dependent on beating his teammate at turn 1, I just think they are very different situations to be in.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:54 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Looking back to the tail end of last season, Bottas has really matched Hamilton over the last 9 races. Did Rosberg ever have a run against him that good in comparison after 2013?


I know the direct comparison is between Bottas and Rosberg against Hamilton but Bottas this season has had to worry about 2 cars which have been faster so far and 2 which can be match or better like Monaco. Rosberg races are dependent on beating his teammate at turn 1, I just think they are very different situations to be in.

That's a good point but it can also work in his favour as Hamilton can sometimes be a bit anonymous when he's driving in the midfield.

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:03 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
As we saw at Baku, the final result doesn’t always tell the whole story.

Russia 2015 - Rosberg was leading before his car failed

USA 2015 - Rosberg was clearly faster than Hamilton but the SC slashed his 10 second lead. He did make a mistake but that doesn’t change his underlying pace advantage that race.


Yes it's all subjective of course. I guess my point would be that currently Bottas looks as good as Rosberg ever did. The question is can he maintain it?


Subjective plus a lot of guessing in some cases. There are many things we cannot tell would or wouldn't have happened. When Hamilton outbraked himself in Mexico and drove straight from turn 1 to turn 3 - would he have recieved a penalty if the Championship battle wouldn't have ended then?

Bottas is looking good compared to Hamilton at the moment. If it turns out that Hamilton can get back to how he and the car were performing in Spain, then the picture changes, but based on the season so far, Bottas is comparing well to Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Looking back to the tail end of last season, Bottas has really matched Hamilton over the last 9 races. Did Rosberg ever have a run against him that good in comparison after 2013?


I know the direct comparison is between Bottas and Rosberg against Hamilton but Bottas this season has had to worry about 2 cars which have been faster so far and 2 which can be match or better like Monaco. Rosberg races are dependent on beating his teammate at turn 1, I just think they are very different situations to be in.

That's a good point but it can also work in his favour as Hamilton can sometimes be a bit anonymous when he's driving in the midfield.


True, tbh I think it's hard for any driver this year who find themselves lower down the grid, overtaking is non existent between the top cars, also there is nothing you can do with strategy. Qualifying is even more important than ever.

Bottas could be a tenth slower than his teammate and find himself 4th, 5th or 6th and he wouldn't have the advantage of a much faster car, Rosberg or Hamilton could be well off their teammates, qualify second and win the race at turn 1. I do think both drivers find themselves in very different situations.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:03 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Covalent wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Looking back to the tail end of last season, Bottas has really matched Hamilton over the last 9 races. Did Rosberg ever have a run against him that good in comparison after 2013?


I know the direct comparison is between Bottas and Rosberg against Hamilton but Bottas this season has had to worry about 2 cars which have been faster so far and 2 which can be match or better like Monaco. Rosberg races are dependent on beating his teammate at turn 1, I just think they are very different situations to be in.

That's a good point but it can also work in his favour as Hamilton can sometimes be a bit anonymous when he's driving in the midfield.


True, tbh I think it's hard for any driver this year who find themselves lower down the grid, overtaking is non existent between the top cars, also there is nothing you can do with strategy. Qualifying is even more important than ever.

Bottas could be a tenth slower than his teammate and find himself 4th, 5th or 6th and he wouldn't have the advantage of a much faster car, Rosberg or Hamilton could be well off their teammates, qualify second and win the race at turn 1. I do think both drivers find themselves in very different situations.


This is false equivalency here there is a difference between being poor and being a tenth slower.

Take this last race for example the same way Hamilton had a bad weekend is the same way Bottas had a poor weekend at Baku.

I bet you anything if Rosberg was still at Merc Hamilton will not be as relaxed as he is right now with his poor showings.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Covalent wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Looking back to the tail end of last season, Bottas has really matched Hamilton over the last 9 races. Did Rosberg ever have a run against him that good in comparison after 2013?


I know the direct comparison is between Bottas and Rosberg against Hamilton but Bottas this season has had to worry about 2 cars which have been faster so far and 2 which can be match or better like Monaco. Rosberg races are dependent on beating his teammate at turn 1, I just think they are very different situations to be in.

That's a good point but it can also work in his favour as Hamilton can sometimes be a bit anonymous when he's driving in the midfield.


True, tbh I think it's hard for any driver this year who find themselves lower down the grid, overtaking is non existent between the top cars, also there is nothing you can do with strategy. Qualifying is even more important than ever.

Bottas could be a tenth slower than his teammate and find himself 4th, 5th or 6th and he wouldn't have the advantage of a much faster car, Rosberg or Hamilton could be well off their teammates, qualify second and win the race at turn 1. I do think both drivers find themselves in very different situations.


This is false equivalency here there is a difference between being poor and being a tenth slower.

Take this last race for example the same way Hamilton had a bad weekend is the same way Bottas had a poor weekend at Baku.

I bet you anything if Rosberg was still at Merc Hamilton will not be as relaxed as he is right now with his poor showings.


You could be poor in the domination era and still qualify 2nd knowing if you win the 1st corner the race is won, you can be poor now and qualify 6th, hell of a difference. Hamilton qualifies 2nd in Canada, Bottas qualifies 2nd in Baku. In the domination era Bottas would have actually won both races with Hamilton having to pit early in Baku and the engine problems in Canada, that's the difference with no other cars involved.

How do you know Hamilton is relaxed? I would be interested to see how Rosberg would do this season, not including the DNF I suspect he would be around the same points as Bottas but we are not halfway yet.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Another factor is about getting the Mercedes sorted to make best use of the tyres. Mercedes were slow to sort the car last year, then it was clearly the best car.

They have designed the car supposedly to make it less of a diva this year, yet they are struggling to sort it this year again. Maybe Rosberg would have been a plus factor in sorting the car earlier?

With the cars being more difficult to follow and pass, Qualifying is at least as important as last year. Hamilton made 2 bad mistakes in Canada, when he might have a car to take pole. They just need to improve enough to get pole at most circuits.


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