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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:51 pm 
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Massa Signed 3-year deal to drive for Venturi in the Formula-e series.
I hope he does well. Such a good guy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... 1/44131389

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:24 am 
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Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:54 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?

Anyone else apart from...?


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:35 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


FE isn't easy. A lot of good drivers have really struggled. He will be the most successful single seat racer to ever compete in FE I think.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:17 am 
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I'll be really interested to see how he does, and I do expect that it'll be well.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:57 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?

Not sure, it's possible, but it wouldn't surprise me if he couldn't get to grips with it at all either.

Also Rosberg will be there soon enough ;)


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 8:06 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


FE isn't easy. A lot of good drivers have really struggled. He will be the most successful single seat racer to ever compete in FE I think.

Villeneuve?

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 8:57 am 
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I'm not at all surprised by this as I think it has been clear for a while that he was going to go to FE once he finished up in F1. I suspect he would've already been driving for Jaguar had Rosberg not retired. What is a little surprising is his choice of team as Venturi have probably been the weakest of the original teams that still exist (although the irony is that but for an overly aggressive bit of driving by Nico Prost, they would've been in the record books as the first FE winner). I can't imagine he's doing it for money as he must've made plenty during his F1 career, so I'm a little curious as to why he's committed to them for three years. All I can imagine is that he must think the Gen2 car is going to even the playing field, or perhaps provide the opportunity for a shake-up in the order...

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:35 am 
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Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


FE isn't easy. A lot of good drivers have really struggled. He will be the most successful single seat racer to ever compete in FE I think.

Villeneuve?


Of course.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:50 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


FE isn't easy. A lot of good drivers have really struggled. He will be the most successful single seat racer to ever compete in FE I think.

Villeneuve?


Of course.


I think the key word is compete!

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:06 pm 
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I wish him luck. I hope he doesn't end up in the barriers too often tho.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I'm not at all surprised by this as I think it has been clear for a while that he was going to go to FE once he finished up in F1. I suspect he would've already been driving for Jaguar had Rosberg not retired. What is a little surprising is his choice of team as Venturi have probably been the weakest of the original teams that still exist (although the irony is that but for an overly aggressive bit of driving by Nico Prost, they would've been in the record books as the first FE winner). I can't imagine he's doing it for money as he must've made plenty during his F1 career, so I'm a little curious as to why he's committed to them for three years. All I can imagine is that he must think the Gen2 car is going to even the playing field, or perhaps provide the opportunity for a shake-up in the order...


When I saw which team, this was exactly my thought. I suppose tho that it's all new cars for next year so there'll be a bit of a reset, but I still would've expected him to be heading for one of the works teams.

Have fun :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:52 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


No, I think there are far better in that series, namely Buemi, Lucas, F-Ros and JEV. Also Evans, Bird and Piquet are hardly slow.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Nice to know. Go Massa! :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


No, I think there are far better in that series, namely Buemi, Lucas, F-Ros and JEV. Also Evans, Bird and Piquet are hardly slow.

Far better? We'll see how Massa adjusts to Formula E, but back in F1 I certainly wouldn't have rated any of the named drivers as much better at all. Di Grassi never really had a chance to prove himself, but Buemi and JEV (as much as I like Vergne) were a very distinct step off the top flight and were dropped by Red Bull as a result. Rosenqvist I do rate quite highly, but on the other hand there are sizable question marks over his career in terms of how long it takes him to win a title at various junior levels. As for Bird, he's quick on his day, I'll give him that. Evans and Piquet I don't buy at all.

I think how good Massa looks in FE will depend almost entirely on how well he adapts to what is clearly a hard to drive car. But in terms of pure talent, I'd say he'll be at the sharp end of the field.

For comparison, if Rosberg does decide to actually drive I think he'd be the best by a fair margin.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


No, I think there are far better in that series, namely Buemi, Lucas, F-Ros and JEV. Also Evans, Bird and Piquet are hardly slow.

Far better? We'll see how Massa adjusts to Formula E, but back in F1 I certainly wouldn't have rated any of the named drivers as much better at all. Di Grassi never really had a chance to prove himself, but Buemi and JEV (as much as I like Vergne) were a very distinct step off the top flight and were dropped by Red Bull as a result. Rosenqvist I do rate quite highly, but on the other hand there are sizable question marks over his career in terms of how long it takes him to win a title at various junior levels. As for Bird, he's quick on his day, I'll give him that. Evans and Piquet I don't buy at all.

I think how good Massa looks in FE will depend almost entirely on how well he adapts to what is clearly a hard to drive car. But in terms of pure talent, I'd say he'll be at the sharp end of the field.

For comparison, if Rosberg does decide to actually drive I think he'd be the best by a fair margin.


Massa is well past his best and his best was never anything special. He spent a lot of years in top cars, that doesn’t mean he was better than drivers who never had that chance. He has a similar record against Alonso to Piquet and was beaten by Heidfeld when they were team mates.

Massa in his prime would have been one of the better drivers but not necessarily the best.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Massa is well past his best and his best was never anything special. He spent a lot of years in top cars, that doesn’t mean he was better than drivers who never had that chance. He has a similar record against Alonso to Piquet and was beaten by Heidfeld when they were team mates.

Massa in his prime would have been one of the better drivers but not necessarily the best.

Fair enough. I never said he'd be the best, just that I disagree with the assertion that there are drivers in Formula E who are 'far better' than him. Better, probably yes, but I don't think it's as much a difference as all that. And I believe that adapting to the FE car appears to be very difficult, so the biggest differentiator is how well drivers are able to manage that.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:39 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


No, I think there are far better in that series, namely Buemi, Lucas, F-Ros and JEV. Also Evans, Bird and Piquet are hardly slow.


Well there not purely better drivers than Massa...


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:15 am 
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Banana Man wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


No, I think there are far better in that series, namely Buemi, Lucas, F-Ros and JEV. Also Evans, Bird and Piquet are hardly slow.

None of those drivers are better than Massa.

It really depends how well he adapts to Formula E.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:21 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Does anyone else reckon he’ll be the best driver in the series?


No, I think there are far better in that series, namely Buemi, Lucas, F-Ros and JEV. Also Evans, Bird and Piquet are hardly slow.

None of those drivers are better than Massa.

It really depends how well he adapts to Formula E.


:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:10 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Massa is well past his best and his best was never anything special. He spent a lot of years in top cars, that doesn’t mean he was better than drivers who never had that chance. He has a similar record against Alonso to Piquet and was beaten by Heidfeld when they were team mates.

Massa in his prime would have been one of the better drivers but not necessarily the best.

Fair enough. I never said he'd be the best, just that I disagree with the assertion that there are drivers in Formula E who are 'far better' than him. Better, probably yes, but I don't think it's as much a difference as all that. And I believe that adapting to the FE car appears to be very difficult, so the biggest differentiator is how well drivers are able to manage that.


I take back the word 'far' but I still think there are better on the grid.

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Massa is well past his best and his best was never anything special. He spent a lot of years in top cars, that doesn’t mean he was better than drivers who never had that chance. He has a similar record against Alonso to Piquet and was beaten by Heidfeld when they were team mates.

Massa in his prime would have been one of the better drivers but not necessarily the best.

Fair enough. I never said he'd be the best, just that I disagree with the assertion that there are drivers in Formula E who are 'far better' than him. Better, probably yes, but I don't think it's as much a difference as all that. And I believe that adapting to the FE car appears to be very difficult, so the biggest differentiator is how well drivers are able to manage that.


That's ultimately what it comes down to - how quickly he can get a handle on managing battery life. Based on his career until now, I would say Massa goes into FE as one of the best on the grid, and certainly arrives as the biggest name the series has attracted to date. But to begin with he's going to be at a huge disadvantage in terms of experience to guys like Buemi, di Grassi, Piquet, Bird, Vergne etc., who have been there since the start (or almost, in Vergne's case), and even more recent arrivals like Rosenqvist. Obviously the biggest positive for Massa is that he's joining as the series introduces a new car, so that should at least lessen the disadvantage he'll have.

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:45 am 
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Banana Man wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Massa is well past his best and his best was never anything special. He spent a lot of years in top cars, that doesn’t mean he was better than drivers who never had that chance. He has a similar record against Alonso to Piquet and was beaten by Heidfeld when they were team mates.

Massa in his prime would have been one of the better drivers but not necessarily the best.

Fair enough. I never said he'd be the best, just that I disagree with the assertion that there are drivers in Formula E who are 'far better' than him. Better, probably yes, but I don't think it's as much a difference as all that. And I believe that adapting to the FE car appears to be very difficult, so the biggest differentiator is how well drivers are able to manage that.


I take back the word 'far' but I still think there are better on the grid.


I don't think there are any drivers on the grid who were better F1 drivers. Who knows how good Massa will be in FE. I don't agree he's necessarily past it either. He's 37 and FE isn't overly physical. I think if he's properly motivated he will do well.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:46 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Massa is well past his best and his best was never anything special. He spent a lot of years in top cars, that doesn’t mean he was better than drivers who never had that chance. He has a similar record against Alonso to Piquet and was beaten by Heidfeld when they were team mates.

Massa in his prime would have been one of the better drivers but not necessarily the best.

Fair enough. I never said he'd be the best, just that I disagree with the assertion that there are drivers in Formula E who are 'far better' than him. Better, probably yes, but I don't think it's as much a difference as all that. And I believe that adapting to the FE car appears to be very difficult, so the biggest differentiator is how well drivers are able to manage that.


I take back the word 'far' but I still think there are better on the grid.


I don't think there are any drivers on the grid who were better F1 drivers. Who knows how good Massa will be in FE. I don't agree he's necessarily past it either. He's 37 and FE isn't overly physical. I think if he's properly motivated he will do well.

But been better in F1 doesn't mean better in FE. Hartley is well regarded in LMP1 and being slated in F1 (though I think/hope he'll improve given time), swapping series doesn't always translate...

Never rated Massa myself, like if Eddie Irvine had won the WDC for Ferrari when he had a chance I don't think anyone would have seriously said he was one of the best drivers out there...


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:59 am 
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I just hope he doesn't do as bad as Villeneuve or Trulli did, or even Heidfeld. From all the ex F1 drivers to compete in Fe, the older ones haven't faired overly well. If that's down to actual driving talent or possibly getting a little older I don't know, but even if Fe isn't as physically demanding as F1, it still seems that drivers over 30 are at a disadvantage.

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:05 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Massa is well past his best and his best was never anything special. He spent a lot of years in top cars, that doesn’t mean he was better than drivers who never had that chance. He has a similar record against Alonso to Piquet and was beaten by Heidfeld when they were team mates.

Massa in his prime would have been one of the better drivers but not necessarily the best.

Fair enough. I never said he'd be the best, just that I disagree with the assertion that there are drivers in Formula E who are 'far better' than him. Better, probably yes, but I don't think it's as much a difference as all that. And I believe that adapting to the FE car appears to be very difficult, so the biggest differentiator is how well drivers are able to manage that.


I take back the word 'far' but I still think there are better on the grid.


I don't think there are any drivers on the grid who were better F1 drivers. Who knows how good Massa will be in FE. I don't agree he's necessarily past it either. He's 37 and FE isn't overly physical. I think if he's properly motivated he will do well.

But been better in F1 doesn't mean better in FE. Hartley is well regarded in LMP1 and being slated in F1 (though I think/hope he'll improve given time), swapping series doesn't always translate...

Never rated Massa myself, like if Eddie Irvine had won the WDC for Ferrari when he had a chance I don't think anyone would have seriously said he was one of the best drivers out there...


But he has never raced in FE. So claims like Buemi, LDG, Piquet etc are better drivers has to be based on F1.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:53 am 
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minchy wrote:
I just hope he doesn't do as bad as Villeneuve or Trulli did, or even Heidfeld. From all the ex F1 drivers to compete in Fe, the older ones haven't faired overly well. If that's down to actual driving talent or possibly getting a little older I don't know, but even if Fe isn't as physically demanding as F1, it still seems that drivers over 30 are at a disadvantage.

This couldn't possibly be implying that sportspeople actually do lose competitiveness from age, even if the sport 'isn't very physical?'

Honestly, F1 is the only sport I follow where people seem to hold this weird belief that age doesn't have any negative effects.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:34 am 
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Exediron wrote:
minchy wrote:
I just hope he doesn't do as bad as Villeneuve or Trulli did, or even Heidfeld. From all the ex F1 drivers to compete in Fe, the older ones haven't faired overly well. If that's down to actual driving talent or possibly getting a little older I don't know, but even if Fe isn't as physically demanding as F1, it still seems that drivers over 30 are at a disadvantage.

This couldn't possibly be implying that sportspeople actually do lose competitiveness from age, even if the sport 'isn't very physical?'

Honestly, F1 is the only sport I follow where people seem to hold this weird belief that age doesn't have any negative effects.


Absolutely loads of sports where being 37 doesn't make much difference to being 30.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:31 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
minchy wrote:
I just hope he doesn't do as bad as Villeneuve or Trulli did, or even Heidfeld. From all the ex F1 drivers to compete in Fe, the older ones haven't faired overly well. If that's down to actual driving talent or possibly getting a little older I don't know, but even if Fe isn't as physically demanding as F1, it still seems that drivers over 30 are at a disadvantage.

This couldn't possibly be implying that sportspeople actually do lose competitiveness from age, even if the sport 'isn't very physical?'

Honestly, F1 is the only sport I follow where people seem to hold this weird belief that age doesn't have any negative effects.


Absolutely loads of sports where being 37 doesn't make much difference to being 30.

A lot depends on people's physical and mental exercise regime, but it also comes down to outside factors, including age.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:50 am 
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minchy wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
minchy wrote:
I just hope he doesn't do as bad as Villeneuve or Trulli did, or even Heidfeld. From all the ex F1 drivers to compete in Fe, the older ones haven't faired overly well. If that's down to actual driving talent or possibly getting a little older I don't know, but even if Fe isn't as physically demanding as F1, it still seems that drivers over 30 are at a disadvantage.

This couldn't possibly be implying that sportspeople actually do lose competitiveness from age, even if the sport 'isn't very physical?'

Honestly, F1 is the only sport I follow where people seem to hold this weird belief that age doesn't have any negative effects.


Absolutely loads of sports where being 37 doesn't make much difference to being 30.

A lot depends on people's physical and mental exercise regime, but it also comes down to outside factors, including age.


It depends on the sport. A sport like tennis obviously age can be a massive factor but there are loads of sports where age plays only a minor role. Even in terms of high fitness level sports. As a rule unless you need to be able to physically accelerate your body at speed you can compete well into your 30s. It's motivation that usually goes. Recovery time is also a factor for some sports but would not really apply for motor racing.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:46 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
minchy wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
minchy wrote:
I just hope he doesn't do as bad as Villeneuve or Trulli did, or even Heidfeld. From all the ex F1 drivers to compete in Fe, the older ones haven't faired overly well. If that's down to actual driving talent or possibly getting a little older I don't know, but even if Fe isn't as physically demanding as F1, it still seems that drivers over 30 are at a disadvantage.

This couldn't possibly be implying that sportspeople actually do lose competitiveness from age, even if the sport 'isn't very physical?'

Honestly, F1 is the only sport I follow where people seem to hold this weird belief that age doesn't have any negative effects.


Absolutely loads of sports where being 37 doesn't make much difference to being 30.

A lot depends on people's physical and mental exercise regime, but it also comes down to outside factors, including age.


It depends on the sport. A sport like tennis obviously age can be a massive factor but there are loads of sports where age plays only a minor role. Even in terms of high fitness level sports. As a rule unless you need to be able to physically accelerate your body at speed you can compete well into your 30s. It's motivation that usually goes. Recovery time is also a factor for some sports but would not really apply for motor racing.

What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:31 am 
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Zoue wrote:
What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head


Golf, Equestrianism, Archery, shooting, various strength sports, sailing... Basically anything where getting yourself up to speed quickly isn't a major factor. Even things like long distance running and rowing have competitors late into their 30s. The only thing that brings an end to athletes in sports like that are persistent injuries and extended recovery time which makes training and the necessary volume impossible. Neither are an issue in F1.

I think in F1 it's mainly the motivation that causes a decline.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:18 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head


Golf, Equestrianism, Archery, shooting, various strength sports, sailing... Basically anything where getting yourself up to speed quickly isn't a major factor. Even things like long distance running and rowing have competitors late into their 30s. The only thing that brings an end to athletes in sports like that are persistent injuries and extended recovery time which makes training and the necessary volume impossible. Neither are an issue in F1.

I think in F1 it's mainly the motivation that causes a decline.

well I'd already mentioned apart from golf but OK.

Not sure you can equate any of those, with the possible exception of sailing, with the physical demands of F1. The best example you've given would be rowing, as that is very physically demanding, so fair enough.

Are there really older competitive long distance runners? And they haven't dropped off noticeably? Have to say that surprises me


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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head


Golf, Equestrianism, Archery, shooting, various strength sports, sailing... Basically anything where getting yourself up to speed quickly isn't a major factor. Even things like long distance running and rowing have competitors late into their 30s. The only thing that brings an end to athletes in sports like that are persistent injuries and extended recovery time which makes training and the necessary volume impossible. Neither are an issue in F1.

I think in F1 it's mainly the motivation that causes a decline.

well I'd already mentioned apart from golf but OK.

Not sure you can equate any of those, with the possible exception of sailing, with the physical demands of F1. The best example you've given would be rowing, as that is very physically demanding, so fair enough.

Are there really older competitive long distance runners? And they haven't dropped off noticeably? Have to say that surprises me


Dunno about the super professional level, but from personal experience at running long distance races, you still see plenty of people posting some seriously quick times well into their 40s. There's a guy who does the Parkrun I used to do (5k) who was well into his 70s doing it in around 21 minutes...

As for Massa....sure I read somewhere that Mercedes are having something to do with the Venturi team next year before launching their own team proper the year after.... a way in there perhaps?

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head


Golf, Equestrianism, Archery, shooting, various strength sports, sailing... Basically anything where getting yourself up to speed quickly isn't a major factor. Even things like long distance running and rowing have competitors late into their 30s. The only thing that brings an end to athletes in sports like that are persistent injuries and extended recovery time which makes training and the necessary volume impossible. Neither are an issue in F1.

I think in F1 it's mainly the motivation that causes a decline.

well I'd already mentioned apart from golf but OK.

Not sure you can equate any of those, with the possible exception of sailing, with the physical demands of F1. The best example you've given would be rowing, as that is very physically demanding, so fair enough.

Are there really older competitive long distance runners? And they haven't dropped off noticeably? Have to say that surprises me

Distance running works with his comment about accelerating quickly. A lot of runners who are top 5k & 10k track guys in their 20's move on to the marathon in their 30's where they can remain competitive for many years but not far into the 40's. That's the tact Mo Fahrrar is taking right now.

A few years ago Meb Keflegahzi won Boston at 39 or 40 but he retired after the 2016 Olympics. After about 38 recovery becomes a huge issue and while someone who was a 2:06 or faster marathoner in their early-mid 30's can still pull off top 10 results they are no longer threats to win major races anymore and can still make a living from appearance fees.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head


Golf, Equestrianism, Archery, shooting, various strength sports, sailing... Basically anything where getting yourself up to speed quickly isn't a major factor. Even things like long distance running and rowing have competitors late into their 30s. The only thing that brings an end to athletes in sports like that are persistent injuries and extended recovery time which makes training and the necessary volume impossible. Neither are an issue in F1.

I think in F1 it's mainly the motivation that causes a decline.

well I'd already mentioned apart from golf but OK.

Not sure you can equate any of those, with the possible exception of sailing, with the physical demands of F1. The best example you've given would be rowing, as that is very physically demanding, so fair enough.

Are there really older competitive long distance runners? And they haven't dropped off noticeably? Have to say that surprises me


Into the mid 30s yes. The problem there is recovery time and long term injury. The things that cause people to drop off in long distance running isn't a factor in F1.

I'm not sure any F1 driver drops off because they can't keep up with the physical demands and FE is far less physical that F1.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:31 pm 
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On a slightly related topic to the thread - From the video posted on formula e's YouTube channel of Nico driving the gen 2 car in Berlin, in his interview after the drive, he seemed fairly adamant that he wasn't going to be driving for Mercedes in Fe in 2 years time. Couldn't tell if it all smoke and mirrors or if he really meant it, but it will be a shame if he doesn't. Have to respect his and wife's wishes if he decides to stay in retirement though.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:43 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head

Golf, Equestrianism, Archery, shooting, various strength sports, sailing... Basically anything where getting yourself up to speed quickly isn't a major factor. Even things like long distance running and rowing have competitors late into their 30s. The only thing that brings an end to athletes in sports like that are persistent injuries and extended recovery time which makes training and the necessary volume impossible. Neither are an issue in F1.

I think in F1 it's mainly the motivation that causes a decline.

Two things from me on that:

First, I think racing a single-seater (especially an F1 car, but an FE car too) is a good deal more physical than people give it credit for.

Second, where's the line being drawn for being 'competitive'? Are we talking about people competing, i.e. the literal meaning? Or are we talking about people into their 40s actually taking on and beating similarly skilled individuals in their 20s?

I'll admit that I don't watch a particularly wide range of sports, and none of the ones you named. But in the ones I do watch there are certainly competitors into their late 30s still competing - they're just not competing at the same level they were a decade ago.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head

Golf, Equestrianism, Archery, shooting, various strength sports, sailing... Basically anything where getting yourself up to speed quickly isn't a major factor. Even things like long distance running and rowing have competitors late into their 30s. The only thing that brings an end to athletes in sports like that are persistent injuries and extended recovery time which makes training and the necessary volume impossible. Neither are an issue in F1.

I think in F1 it's mainly the motivation that causes a decline.

Two things from me on that:

First, I think racing a single-seater (especially an F1 car, but an FE car too) is a good deal more physical than people give it credit for.

Second, where's the line being drawn for being 'competitive'? Are we talking about people competing, i.e. the literal meaning? Or are we talking about people into their 40s actually taking on and beating similarly skilled individuals in their 20s?

I'll admit that I don't watch a particularly wide range of sports, and none of the ones you named. But in the ones I do watch there are certainly competitors into their late 30s still competing - they're just not competing at the same level they were a decade ago.


I mean be able to compete as well at 40 than at 30.

I think the factors that usually result in decline in other sports don't apply or at least don't apply as much in F1. The exception for that would be a decline in motivation and possibly a decline in reaction time. I quite agree it physical and someone 40 may have to look after themselves better than someone 30 to achieve the level of fitness required but I see no reason why it could not be maintained of someone that age.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:05 am 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
What top-level competitive professional sports have a lot of people in their 40s and above, apart from maybe golf? Not trying to be funny here but struggling to think of ones off the top of my head

Golf, Equestrianism, Archery, shooting, various strength sports, sailing... Basically anything where getting yourself up to speed quickly isn't a major factor. Even things like long distance running and rowing have competitors late into their 30s. The only thing that brings an end to athletes in sports like that are persistent injuries and extended recovery time which makes training and the necessary volume impossible. Neither are an issue in F1.

I think in F1 it's mainly the motivation that causes a decline.

Two things from me on that:

First, I think racing a single-seater (especially an F1 car, but an FE car too) is a good deal more physical than people give it credit for.

Second, where's the line being drawn for being 'competitive'? Are we talking about people competing, i.e. the literal meaning? Or are we talking about people into their 40s actually taking on and beating similarly skilled individuals in their 20s?

I'll admit that I don't watch a particularly wide range of sports, and none of the ones you named. But in the ones I do watch there are certainly competitors into their late 30s still competing - they're just not competing at the same level they were a decade ago.

Driving an F1 car is FAR easier than driving Karts. And that's not debatable. Driving a racing kart at speed you get beat up!!!

And that's not hearsay, I lived it and on days where your setup is perfect and you can go flat out on technically tight sections of track you will have bruised ribs at the end of the day. Your neck, regardless of how accustomed you are to the rigors, will be sore because although you have a neck restraint, the change of direction and the seating position is such that you will feel sore. Your head in a helmet multiplied by the centrifugal forces = a great deal of weight trying to pull you head off your shoulders and there is no way you can rest it against anything. The angle of the steering wheel also makes it more physically taxing. Add to that ZERO suspension, and you have what is likely the most physically demanding type of racing on 4 wheels. "Maybe" rally might come close or even exceed it, but I've never done it so I can't speak to how it compares to karting.

An F1 car is not physically taxing enough to incur any kind of wear on drivers once they pass a certain age of any sort.

The difference I'd say with drivers as they age is maturity. Anyone past the age of say 35 can remember being vastly more fearless and give far less thought (if any) to injury and mortality. Even then, F1 cars really are so relatively safe that drivers walk away from total carnage all the time. Alonso, Kubica, and many others got out of cars that were completely demolished and were relatively unscathed. This is important because it allows more mature drivers to get into the car with confidence of knowing the chances of walking away from a major accident are in their favor, so the thought of injury and mortality are likely quite brief.

Guys like Raikkonen and Alonso, and evenSchumacher & Barrichello are proof positive that drivers' abilities don't diminish as many believe.
The difference is that as with most things, every generation becomes just that much better in so many facets that it gives the illusion that the older guys have lost something.
Doesn't mean they actually did.

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