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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Anyone who thinks Kimi has no racecraft should watch Kimi Vs. Lewis at Suzuka through S1 (I forget the exact year but it was Kimi in a Lotus so it wasn't too long ago). One of the cleanest racers F1 has seen, probably ever.

I wouldn't trust Verstappen's defensive judgement if he was racing someone on foot around a footpath bend, forget an F1 car.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:33 am 
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Maybe I should replace the word "clean" with "tough". Raikkonen is too clean, that is why he is frequently bullied out of the way by tougher drivers like Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo. Raikkonen's weak racecraft and lack of pace is the reason why he still hasn't won a race in either 2017 or 2018 despite having the car to do it. Abu Dhabi 2016 was the last time this guy gained a place on the first lap, for goodness sake.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:47 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Maybe I should replace the word "clean" with "tough". Raikkonen is too clean, that is why he is frequently bullied out of the way by tougher drivers like Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo. Raikkonen's weak racecraft and lack of pace is the reason why he still hasn't won a race in either 2017 or 2018 despite having the car to do it. Abu Dhabi 2016 was the last time this guy gained a place on the first lap, for goodness sake.

I wouldn't be giving Vettel and Verstappen as examples of how to go racing given the amount of crashes they have.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:00 am 
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1. Good to see Lewis' full reversal on Kimi's driving since his red mist comments from the British GP about Kimi's side-by-side racing. The guy has never intentionally hit another driver in F1. Ever. The closest thing may have been Perez during the Lotus years.

2. Anyone else think Kimi lingered a bit more than Kimi would normally do on the Monza podium? I'm not one to read into things too far, but when I watched him up there, I felt: This guy is soaking that moment in; he either a) knows he's out of a Ferrari drive next year or b) is unsure if he'll be driving next year at the present time.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:46 am 
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pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Maybe I should replace the word "clean" with "tough". Raikkonen is too clean, that is why he is frequently bullied out of the way by tougher drivers like Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo. Raikkonen's weak racecraft and lack of pace is the reason why he still hasn't won a race in either 2017 or 2018 despite having the car to do it. Abu Dhabi 2016 was the last time this guy gained a place on the first lap, for goodness sake.

I wouldn't be giving Vettel and Verstappen as examples of how to go racing given the amount of crashes they have.

Verstappen pushed Raikkonen out of the way on the opening lap in Austria, and that move won him the race. Vettel overtook Hamilton with two wheels on the grass in that race to take a podium place. Raikkonen wouldn’t have done either of these things. That’s why he hasn’t won a race since Australia 2013.

Formula 1 is a game of risk vs reward, and Raikkonen’s completely risk averse driving is the reason to why he rarely gets the reward.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:18 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Maybe I should replace the word "clean" with "tough". Raikkonen is too clean, that is why he is frequently bullied out of the way by tougher drivers like Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo. Raikkonen's weak racecraft and lack of pace is the reason why he still hasn't won a race in either 2017 or 2018 despite having the car to do it. Abu Dhabi 2016 was the last time this guy gained a place on the first lap, for goodness sake.

I wouldn't be giving Vettel and Verstappen as examples of how to go racing given the amount of crashes they have.

Verstappen pushed Raikkonen out of the way on the opening lap in Austria, and that move won him the race. Vettel overtook Hamilton with two wheels on the grass in that race to take a podium place. Raikkonen wouldn’t have done either of these things. That’s why he hasn’t won a race since Australia 2013.

Formula 1 is a game of risk vs reward, and Raikkonen’s completely risk averse driving is the reason to why he rarely gets the reward.


If Vettel with his superior speed had employed Kimi's risk/reward this season, he would likely be leading the world championship by 30 points and not be 30 behind. Hamilton has basically driven like that the last 2 seasons - Vettel's speed, Kimi's risk/reward and for that he has been the best driver.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Pirelli have explained why Kimi's tyres gave way so dramatically. Basically, it was down to the teams not having enough info on the tyres due to lack of running in FP1 & FP2 and the perfect storm of events surrounding Kimi's own circumstances. So not really driver error, then

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138498/pirelli-explains-raikkonen-monza-blistering

*sigh* - he just can't catch a break


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Pirelli have explained why Kimi's tyres gave way so dramatically. Basically, it was down to the teams not having enough info on the tyres due to lack of running in FP1 & FP2 and the perfect storm of events surrounding Kimi's own circumstances. So not really driver error, then

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138498/pirelli-explains-raikkonen-monza-blistering

*sigh* - he just can't catch a break


Absolute own goal taking 10x SS and 1xS for Vettel and 9xSS and 2xS for Kimi.

They basically allowed themselves 1 single run in practise on the tyre they would need to spend at least 60% of the race on, even without hindsight it was foolish. What if Kimi flat spotted them or got a puncture, they would have no data.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Pirelli have explained why Kimi's tyres gave way so dramatically. Basically, it was down to the teams not having enough info on the tyres due to lack of running in FP1 & FP2 and the perfect storm of events surrounding Kimi's own circumstances. So not really driver error, then

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138498/pirelli-explains-raikkonen-monza-blistering

*sigh* - he just can't catch a break


After his pitstop, he had had to push harder and longer than he would have liked on fresh soft tyres to ensure Lewis Hamilton could not overcut him.

The combination of that, plus being trapped behind Valtteri Bottas, which meant his car was losing downforce and sliding more, ultimately triggered the blistering problems that proved so costly.

"The soft compound is more prone to blisters because of the low wear," added Isola.

"Low wear means a lot of heat generation inside the compound and therefore blisters.

"If you follow another car you lose some downforce, and you slide a bit more. So compared to the supersoft, which is generating more grip and sliding less, this is all creating blisters.

"Then it is clear that if you push from lap one when the tyre is new, you have more rubber and you exacerbate the effect."

Sounds like driver/team error to me. They don't push too hard at the start of the stint then no blistering.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:47 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Pirelli have explained why Kimi's tyres gave way so dramatically. Basically, it was down to the teams not having enough info on the tyres due to lack of running in FP1 & FP2 and the perfect storm of events surrounding Kimi's own circumstances. So not really driver error, then

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138498/pirelli-explains-raikkonen-monza-blistering

*sigh* - he just can't catch a break


After his pitstop, he had had to push harder and longer than he would have liked on fresh soft tyres to ensure Lewis Hamilton could not overcut him.

The combination of that, plus being trapped behind Valtteri Bottas, which meant his car was losing downforce and sliding more, ultimately triggered the blistering problems that proved so costly.

"The soft compound is more prone to blisters because of the low wear," added Isola.

"Low wear means a lot of heat generation inside the compound and therefore blisters.

"If you follow another car you lose some downforce, and you slide a bit more. So compared to the supersoft, which is generating more grip and sliding less, this is all creating blisters.

"Then it is clear that if you push from lap one when the tyre is new, you have more rubber and you exacerbate the effect."

Sounds like driver/team error to me. They don't push too hard at the start of the stint then no blistering.

because they didn't have enough info on the tyres and how they would react. The article makes that clear. Many's the time we've seen drivers push hard after a stop - even Lewis did it on Sunday! - without ruining their tyres. They clearly didn't understand how much of an impact it would have on this occasion, which makes it more a team error that they didn't urge more caution


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Pirelli have explained why Kimi's tyres gave way so dramatically. Basically, it was down to the teams not having enough info on the tyres due to lack of running in FP1 & FP2 and the perfect storm of events surrounding Kimi's own circumstances. So not really driver error, then

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138498/pirelli-explains-raikkonen-monza-blistering

*sigh* - he just can't catch a break


After his pitstop, he had had to push harder and longer than he would have liked on fresh soft tyres to ensure Lewis Hamilton could not overcut him.

The combination of that, plus being trapped behind Valtteri Bottas, which meant his car was losing downforce and sliding more, ultimately triggered the blistering problems that proved so costly.

"The soft compound is more prone to blisters because of the low wear," added Isola.

"Low wear means a lot of heat generation inside the compound and therefore blisters.

"If you follow another car you lose some downforce, and you slide a bit more. So compared to the supersoft, which is generating more grip and sliding less, this is all creating blisters.

"Then it is clear that if you push from lap one when the tyre is new, you have more rubber and you exacerbate the effect."

Sounds like driver/team error to me. They don't push too hard at the start of the stint then no blistering.

because they didn't have enough info on the tyres and how they would react. The article makes that clear. Many's the time we've seen drivers push hard after a stop - even Lewis did it on Sunday! - without ruining their tyres. They clearly didn't understand how much of an impact it would have on this occasion, which makes it more a team error that they didn't urge more caution


It's a driver error because Kimi simply wasn't quick enough to build a gap. If he builds a gap then you can cover the under or overcut pretty easy without errors. Ferrari has no choice but to pit Kimi as his pace was slow and Hamilton would have undercut him. Hamilton stayed out longer because Mercedes had nothing to lose at that point and there only strategy was to try different age tyres and hope Bottas holds up Kimi.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2018/09/ ... -in-monza/

"It was not the fact that Ferrari had brought only one additional set of soft tyres – apart from the set each driver had for the race. There was no issue there; they did the right thing working on the supersoft, the more tricky tyre to understand and master in limited Friday practice running due to rain. It was more important to optimise performance on that tyre for qualifying and the optimum first stint of the race.

Nor was the mistake in bringing Raikkonen in first, on Lap 21, to cover off an undercut attempt by Hamilton who was well within range. This was exactly the right move as to do the reverse would have led to an undercut, given how close Hamilton was.

The mistake was the degree and length of time to which Raikkonen was asked to push on the new set of soft tyres after his pit stop. By going hard for five or six laps, he damaged the tyres and that opened up the chance for Hamilton to exploit that weakness later in the race to overtake for the win."

People seem to be obsessed with Ferrari having a lack of understanding of the softs, to me it's more about a unique set of circumstances which was brought on by Kimi not being able to pull a gap and Ferrari asking Kimi to push for harder and longer than needed. I very much doubt this happens if Vettel is leading the race.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:27 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Pirelli have explained why Kimi's tyres gave way so dramatically. Basically, it was down to the teams not having enough info on the tyres due to lack of running in FP1 & FP2 and the perfect storm of events surrounding Kimi's own circumstances. So not really driver error, then

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138498/pirelli-explains-raikkonen-monza-blistering

*sigh* - he just can't catch a break


After his pitstop, he had had to push harder and longer than he would have liked on fresh soft tyres to ensure Lewis Hamilton could not overcut him.

The combination of that, plus being trapped behind Valtteri Bottas, which meant his car was losing downforce and sliding more, ultimately triggered the blistering problems that proved so costly.

"The soft compound is more prone to blisters because of the low wear," added Isola.

"Low wear means a lot of heat generation inside the compound and therefore blisters.

"If you follow another car you lose some downforce, and you slide a bit more. So compared to the supersoft, which is generating more grip and sliding less, this is all creating blisters.

"Then it is clear that if you push from lap one when the tyre is new, you have more rubber and you exacerbate the effect."

Sounds like driver/team error to me. They don't push too hard at the start of the stint then no blistering.

because they didn't have enough info on the tyres and how they would react. The article makes that clear. Many's the time we've seen drivers push hard after a stop - even Lewis did it on Sunday! - without ruining their tyres. They clearly didn't understand how much of an impact it would have on this occasion, which makes it more a team error that they didn't urge more caution


It's a driver error because Kimi simply wasn't quick enough to build a gap. If he builds a gap then you can cover the under or overcut pretty easy without errors. Ferrari has no choice but to pit Kimi as his pace was slow and Hamilton would have undercut him. Hamilton stayed out longer because Mercedes had nothing to lose at that point and there only strategy was to try different age tyres and hope Bottas holds up Kimi.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2018/09/ ... -in-monza/

"It was not the fact that Ferrari had brought only one additional set of soft tyres – apart from the set each driver had for the race. There was no issue there; they did the right thing working on the supersoft, the more tricky tyre to understand and master in limited Friday practice running due to rain. It was more important to optimise performance on that tyre for qualifying and the optimum first stint of the race.

Nor was the mistake in bringing Raikkonen in first, on Lap 21, to cover off an undercut attempt by Hamilton who was well within range. This was exactly the right move as to do the reverse would have led to an undercut, given how close Hamilton was.

The mistake was the degree and length of time to which Raikkonen was asked to push on the new set of soft tyres after his pit stop. By going hard for five or six laps, he damaged the tyres and that opened up the chance for Hamilton to exploit that weakness later in the race to overtake for the win."

People seem to be obsessed with Ferrari having a lack of understanding of the softs, to me it's more about a unique set of circumstances which was brought on by Kimi not being able to pull a gap and Ferrari asking Kimi to push for harder and longer than needed. I very much doubt this happens if Vettel is leading the race.

I think it's been mentioned once, which I would hardly class as an obsession.

I don't really get how Kimi not being fast enough can be classed as a driver error. You can only work with what you have, surely? If he's not physically able to go faster that's more a question of ability than an error.

The article above actually supports the idea that the team didn't fully understand the tyres (sorry for bringing up the obsession again). It says the mistake was the "degree and length of time to which Raikkonen was asked to push on the new set of soft tyres after his pit stop." This is to my mind a direct consequence of them not understanding the tyres properly and that fits with Pirelli's own explanation. I don't see how that is driver error.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:45 pm 
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This is exactly why there is no point when someone just twists everything to suit, no wonder so many people give up trying to have a debate with you.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:24 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
This is exactly why there is no point when someone just twists everything to suit, no wonder so many people give up trying to have a debate with you.

instead of making a snide remark, perhaps you would point out what's been twisted. Assuming you even can, of course


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:44 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Maybe I should replace the word "clean" with "tough". Raikkonen is too clean, that is why he is frequently bullied out of the way by tougher drivers like Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo. Raikkonen's weak racecraft and lack of pace is the reason why he still hasn't won a race in either 2017 or 2018 despite having the car to do it. Abu Dhabi 2016 was the last time this guy gained a place on the first lap, for goodness sake.

I wouldn't be giving Vettel and Verstappen as examples of how to go racing given the amount of crashes they have.

Verstappen pushed Raikkonen out of the way on the opening lap in Austria, and that move won him the race. Vettel overtook Hamilton with two wheels on the grass in that race to take a podium place. Raikkonen wouldn’t have done either of these things. That’s why he hasn’t won a race since Australia 2013.

Formula 1 is a game of risk vs reward, and Raikkonen’s completely risk averse driving is the reason to why he rarely gets the reward.

Kimi's basic problem has been his speed which tends to relegate him into helping Vettel, you seem more irked that he didn't give Hamilton a problem by driving into him in order to help Vettel I would be guessing more so than Kimi winning the race?

Bottas won 2 races last year but when put in a similar position to Kimi had but against Vettel he chose not to dive bomb/hit Vettel to try and win the race and this being a situation were Bottas' car was quicker, so this reasoning why Kimi has not won a race recently is mute.

As an Hamilton fan I didn't criticise Bottas, it wouldn't be specifically my wish for him to pass Vettel at whatever cost and if drivers start to go down that route then I hope the stewards act accordingly.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:31 pm 
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https://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-im ... ding-kimi/

"While Bottas acted as Hamilton’s blocker in the race, pole-sitter Raikkonen immediately covered off Vettel at the start, which in turn made Vettel vulnerable to attack from Hamilton.

“When I had to evade him in the next chicane, Lewis could get past,” Vettel told Ziggo Sport.

“I had no space and made a spin and had severe damage.”

He added: “I’m not particularly happy with the way Ferrari managed things on Saturday.

“It should’ve been me starting from pole position.

“For me, it’s clear: I have to race three cars, including my teammate.”

Vettel seems happy. Blames Kimi for getting overtaken when he went offline looking for an overtake which was never there.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:48 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
https://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-im-racing-three-cars-including-kimi/

"While Bottas acted as Hamilton’s blocker in the race, pole-sitter Raikkonen immediately covered off Vettel at the start, which in turn made Vettel vulnerable to attack from Hamilton.

“When I had to evade him in the next chicane, Lewis could get past,” Vettel told Ziggo Sport.

“I had no space and made a spin and had severe damage.”

He added: “I’m not particularly happy with the way Ferrari managed things on Saturday.

“It should’ve been me starting from pole position.

“For me, it’s clear: I have to race three cars, including my teammate.”

Vettel seems happy. Blames Kimi for getting overtaken when he went offline looking for an overtake which was never there.

I generally don't read much into comments made in the heat of the moment. he seems to be venting a bit. That said, I do agree that it's time for Ferrari to stop messing around with "fairness" if they want to win the titles this year. Kimi had his shot in Italy and he didn't win the race. No more nonsense from here on out.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:30 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Pirelli have explained why Kimi's tyres gave way so dramatically. Basically, it was down to the teams not having enough info on the tyres due to lack of running in FP1 & FP2 and the perfect storm of events surrounding Kimi's own circumstances. So not really driver error, then

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138498/pirelli-explains-raikkonen-monza-blistering

*sigh* - he just can't catch a break


After his pitstop, he had had to push harder and longer than he would have liked on fresh soft tyres to ensure Lewis Hamilton could not overcut him.

The combination of that, plus being trapped behind Valtteri Bottas, which meant his car was losing downforce and sliding more, ultimately triggered the blistering problems that proved so costly.

"The soft compound is more prone to blisters because of the low wear," added Isola.

"Low wear means a lot of heat generation inside the compound and therefore blisters.

"If you follow another car you lose some downforce, and you slide a bit more. So compared to the supersoft, which is generating more grip and sliding less, this is all creating blisters.

"Then it is clear that if you push from lap one when the tyre is new, you have more rubber and you exacerbate the effect."

Sounds like driver/team error to me. They don't push too hard at the start of the stint then no blistering.

because they didn't have enough info on the tyres and how they would react. The article makes that clear. Many's the time we've seen drivers push hard after a stop - even Lewis did it on Sunday! - without ruining their tyres. They clearly didn't understand how much of an impact it would have on this occasion, which makes it more a team error that they didn't urge more caution


It's a driver error because Kimi simply wasn't quick enough to build a gap. If he builds a gap then you can cover the under or overcut pretty easy without errors. Ferrari has no choice but to pit Kimi as his pace was slow and Hamilton would have undercut him. Hamilton stayed out longer because Mercedes had nothing to lose at that point and there only strategy was to try different age tyres and hope Bottas holds up Kimi.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2018/09/ ... -in-monza/

"It was not the fact that Ferrari had brought only one additional set of soft tyres – apart from the set each driver had for the race. There was no issue there; they did the right thing working on the supersoft, the more tricky tyre to understand and master in limited Friday practice running due to rain. It was more important to optimise performance on that tyre for qualifying and the optimum first stint of the race.

Nor was the mistake in bringing Raikkonen in first, on Lap 21, to cover off an undercut attempt by Hamilton who was well within range. This was exactly the right move as to do the reverse would have led to an undercut, given how close Hamilton was.

The mistake was the degree and length of time to which Raikkonen was asked to push on the new set of soft tyres after his pit stop. By going hard for five or six laps, he damaged the tyres and that opened up the chance for Hamilton to exploit that weakness later in the race to overtake for the win."

People seem to be obsessed with Ferrari having a lack of understanding of the softs, to me it's more about a unique set of circumstances which was brought on by Kimi not being able to pull a gap and Ferrari asking Kimi to push for harder and longer than needed. I very much doubt this happens if Vettel is leading the race.


Last year both Mercedes finished 30secs ahead of Ferrari. One of the Ferrari's worst race. I think they got the setup wrong this year as well. Bottas was stuck all race behind Max but did not have problem with the tyres. You are also underestimating the fact that this is Hamilton best track. I always knew it was going to be close race. If Ferrari had maintained 1-2 or even 1-3 in the first lap. It would have been on their favor.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:42 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
https://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-im-racing-three-cars-including-kimi/

"While Bottas acted as Hamilton’s blocker in the race, pole-sitter Raikkonen immediately covered off Vettel at the start, which in turn made Vettel vulnerable to attack from Hamilton.

“When I had to evade him in the next chicane, Lewis could get past,” Vettel told Ziggo Sport.

“I had no space and made a spin and had severe damage.”

He added: “I’m not particularly happy with the way Ferrari managed things on Saturday.

“It should’ve been me starting from pole position.

“For me, it’s clear: I have to race three cars, including my teammate.”

Vettel seems happy. Blames Kimi for getting overtaken when he went offline looking for an overtake which was never there.

Yes I'd already read that and some were questioning the validity of what Vettel said, it also mentioned that the relationship between the two of them has now gone a bit cold.

I guess action speaks louder than words, I saw the race today from Hamilton's on board and the two Ferrari's were going at it into the first corner, Vettel got a run on the outside and Kimi braked late and locked up to defend his position which forced Vettel wide and allowed Hamilton a little look at Vettel were they brushed wheels, Hamilton's front to Vettel's rear.

Going into the next left hand corner Vettel again made an attempt to pass Kimi, again Kimi rebuked it, Vettel himself said that Kimi came back off the brake to defend his position against Vettel.

What's being said is that Vettel expected Kimi to let him by but on the other hand there is a clause in Kimi's contract that if his contract is not to be renewed then he no longer has to adhere to team orders, the way that Kimi drove those first 2 corners would seen to go along with that, but then who knows whats true?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
https://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-im-racing-three-cars-including-kimi/

"While Bottas acted as Hamilton’s blocker in the race, pole-sitter Raikkonen immediately covered off Vettel at the start, which in turn made Vettel vulnerable to attack from Hamilton.

“When I had to evade him in the next chicane, Lewis could get past,” Vettel told Ziggo Sport.

“I had no space and made a spin and had severe damage.”

He added: “I’m not particularly happy with the way Ferrari managed things on Saturday.

“It should’ve been me starting from pole position.

“For me, it’s clear: I have to race three cars, including my teammate.”

Vettel seems happy. Blames Kimi for getting overtaken when he went offline looking for an overtake which was never there.

Yes I'd already read that and some were questioning the validity of what Vettel said, it also mentioned that the relationship between the two of them has now gone a bit cold.

I guess action speaks louder than words, I saw the race today from Hamilton's on board and the two Ferrari's were going at it into the first corner, Vettel got a run on the outside and Kimi braked late and locked up to defend his position which forced Vettel wide and allowed Hamilton a little look at Vettel were they brushed wheels, Hamilton's front to Vettel's rear.

Going into the next left hand corner Vettel again made an attempt to pass Kimi, again Kimi rebuked it, Vettel himself said that Kimi came back off the brake to defend his position against Vettel.

What's being said is that Vettel expected Kimi to let him by but on the other hand there is a clause in Kimi's contract that if his contract is not to be renewed then he no longer has to adhere to team orders, the way that Kimi drove those first 2 corners would seen to go along with that, but then who knows whats true?


Vettel has a right to be angry about Saturday, some have reported the issue of Sainz getting in the way and others regarding Kimi not giving Vettel the tow. Ferrari should have just got on with it and helped Vettel as much as possible, it's not like they haven't used Kimi before but at the same time can you ask that of someone by all reports your not offering a contract to.

Once Saturday was done I don't think Kimi done anything wrong at the start, it's way to difficult to expect Kimi to let Vettel through without letting Hamilton have a chance. Imagine if both Vettel and Hamilton got through, the stick Kimi would have got would be at a new high.

If Vettel didn't open the door for Hamilton and thought of the bigger picture he would have most likely won the race through pace or strategy. The way Hamilton has been racing the last 2 years I just can't see him doing the same as Vettel in that situation.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:38 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
https://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-im-racing-three-cars-including-kimi/

"While Bottas acted as Hamilton’s blocker in the race, pole-sitter Raikkonen immediately covered off Vettel at the start, which in turn made Vettel vulnerable to attack from Hamilton.

“When I had to evade him in the next chicane, Lewis could get past,” Vettel told Ziggo Sport.

“I had no space and made a spin and had severe damage.”

He added: “I’m not particularly happy with the way Ferrari managed things on Saturday.

“It should’ve been me starting from pole position.

“For me, it’s clear: I have to race three cars, including my teammate.”

Vettel seems happy. Blames Kimi for getting overtaken when he went offline looking for an overtake which was never there.

Yes I'd already read that and some were questioning the validity of what Vettel said, it also mentioned that the relationship between the two of them has now gone a bit cold.

I guess action speaks louder than words, I saw the race today from Hamilton's on board and the two Ferrari's were going at it into the first corner, Vettel got a run on the outside and Kimi braked late and locked up to defend his position which forced Vettel wide and allowed Hamilton a little look at Vettel were they brushed wheels, Hamilton's front to Vettel's rear.

Going into the next left hand corner Vettel again made an attempt to pass Kimi, again Kimi rebuked it, Vettel himself said that Kimi came back off the brake to defend his position against Vettel.

What's being said is that Vettel expected Kimi to let him by but on the other hand there is a clause in Kimi's contract that if his contract is not to be renewed then he no longer has to adhere to team orders, the way that Kimi drove those first 2 corners would seen to go along with that, but then who knows whats true?


Vettel has a right to be angry about Saturday, some have reported the issue of Sainz getting in the way and others regarding Kimi not giving Vettel the tow. Ferrari should have just got on with it and helped Vettel as much as possible, it's not like they haven't used Kimi before but at the same time can you ask that of someone by all reports your not offering a contract to.

Once Saturday was done I don't think Kimi done anything wrong at the start, it's way to difficult to expect Kimi to let Vettel through without letting Hamilton have a chance. Imagine if both Vettel and Hamilton got through, the stick Kimi would have got would be at a new high.

If Vettel didn't open the door for Hamilton and thought of the bigger picture he would have most likely won the race through pace or strategy. The way Hamilton has been racing the last 2 years I just can't see him doing the same as Vettel in that situation.

I've now read that Vettel actually said that team orders are not going to be used against Kimi and he's happy about that, this from a more reliable source, so the earlier article about Vettel not being happy perhaps wanted to reflect negatively on Vettel, they changed the context of what Vettel said.

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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:52 am 
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Interesting vid here with a lot of praise for Kimi's technical feedback. According to this the general consensus in the paddock is that Kimi is one of the strongest drivers out there for technical feedback and car development, which pretty much reinforces why it was said McLaren had initially been interested in him (that last bit's my assumption!):



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:52 pm 
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It seems Kimi to Sauber was his wish. I thought Ferrari did that for him as I am pretty sure a small team like Sauber cannot afford him. Ferrari should have informed Kimi earlier. I think he should have tried going to RBR Honda instead. Not sure what he is going to achieve in Sauber but it will be great to see if team can get more competitive so he can fight with Ricciardo next few years in the midfield :?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
It seems Kimi to Sauber was his wish. I thought Ferrari did that for him as I am pretty sure a small team like Sauber cannot afford him. Ferrari should have informed Kimi earlier. I think he should have tried going to RBR Honda instead. Not sure what he is going to achieve in Sauber but it will be great to see if team can get more competitive so he can fight with Ricciardo next few years in the midfield :?

you know if Ferrari had informed Kimi earlier there's a chance he may have gone to McLaren as rumour has it they had hoped to sign him. Pity that didn't happen IMO


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