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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:36 pm 
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cucoloco wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
What is this "putdown" from Alonso? What did he do?

I can't remember exactly, he put down the F1 drivers for one.


Can't remember, yet you are up in arms??


:lol: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
my understanding is that him leaving early was not a happy parting. Happy to be proven wrong on that but I've always understood that the relationship was strained


That doesn't really answer my question though.

Alonso was not happy because he was not getting a competitive car, but how does this mean that he burnt his bridges?

I thought it did? If the relationship was strained, then it's not likely they'd want him back

The story going around at the time was that there were quite heated discussions when Ferrari wouldn't honour the verbal agreement he had with LdM and it got quite personal. Whether that's enough to burn bridges, I don't know, but that's why I put "partially."


Well the relationship was strained because of the lack of competitiveness of the car at the time. Obviously this would no longer be an issue if Alonso were to hypothetically return. So again, i don't really see how he burnt his bridges.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:57 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Well the relationship was strained because of the lack of competitiveness of the car at the time. Obviously this would no longer be an issue if Alonso were to hypothetically return. So again, i don't really see how he burnt his bridges.

I think he burned the bridge by leaving at all, and embarrassing Ferrari several times before and during the year (such as the famous incident where he wished for someone else's car for his birthday). He left because he didn't believe in Ferrari's ability to win: how can that not have hurt his relationship with someone as prideful as Marchionne?

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 11:32 am 
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If he got back at Macca, after blackmailing his own boss, then I think he can work his way into any team.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
If he got back at Macca, after blackmailing his own boss, then I think he can work his way into any team.

You might be right. I was shocked that he got back into Macca; I would have said never in a million years after 2007.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:05 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
If he got back at Macca, after blackmailing his own boss, then I think he can work his way into any team.

You might be right. I was shocked that he got back into Macca; I would have said never in a million years after 2007.



That happened as they had no choice, but ferrari is cut from a different cloth.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:14 am 
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Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
If he got back at Macca, after blackmailing his own boss, then I think he can work his way into any team.

You might be right. I was shocked that he got back into Macca; I would have said never in a million years after 2007.



That happened as they had no choice, but ferrari is cut from a different cloth.


Of course they had a choice. They already had a world champion in one car.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:43 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.


This about wraps it up for me. I truly believe this underlies Alonso's feelings on the topic. I think he has come to terms with it to some degree off track, but in the heat of the moment, all of these ideas spring to mind and come out in his driving.

davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
my understanding is that him leaving early was not a happy parting. Happy to be proven wrong on that but I've always understood that the relationship was strained


That doesn't really answer my question though.

Alonso was not happy because he was not getting a competitive car, but how does this mean that he burnt his bridges?

I thought it did? If the relationship was strained, then it's not likely they'd want him back

The story going around at the time was that there were quite heated discussions when Ferrari wouldn't honour the verbal agreement he had with LdM and it got quite personal. Whether that's enough to burn bridges, I don't know, but that's why I put "partially."


Well the relationship was strained because of the lack of competitiveness of the car at the time. Obviously this would no longer be an issue if Alonso were to hypothetically return. So again, i don't really see how he burnt his bridges.


According to the press at the time, Alonso gave Ferrari an ultimatum regarding the LdM agreement - and Ferrari didn't bite. Instead they got Vettel (who, imo, wasn't going to make the move unless Alonso left and Kimi remained.) I don't think Alonso was expecting that turn of events, despite the rumors of Vettel and Ferrari talking (those had been happening for years). However, I believe he thought it a win-win situation: If Ferrari would not give in to his demands and instead managed to get Vettel to leave Red Bull and sign with them, he would get the Red Bull seat (which made sense, but wasn't to be). As it turned out, the only top seat available in the fall out was McLaren.

I think all of that underlies Alonso's feelings toward Vettel.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:40 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
cucoloco wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
What is this "putdown" from Alonso? What did he do?

I can't remember exactly, he put down the F1 drivers for one.


Can't remember, yet you are up in arms??


:lol: :thumbup:

Who said I was up in arms I'm just pointing out Alonso's nature.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:43 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
my understanding is that him leaving early was not a happy parting. Happy to be proven wrong on that but I've always understood that the relationship was strained


That doesn't really answer my question though.

Alonso was not happy because he was not getting a competitive car, but how does this mean that he burnt his bridges?

I thought it did? If the relationship was strained, then it's not likely they'd want him back

The story going around at the time was that there were quite heated discussions when Ferrari wouldn't honour the verbal agreement he had with LdM and it got quite personal. Whether that's enough to burn bridges, I don't know, but that's why I put "partially."


Well the relationship was strained because of the lack of competitiveness of the car at the time. Obviously this would no longer be an issue if Alonso were to hypothetically return. So again, i don't really see how he burnt his bridges.

I think you need to live in the reality that he's not wanted at Ferrari, Mercedes or Red Bull inspite of perhaps being the best driver in F1.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:46 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
If he got back at Macca, after blackmailing his own boss, then I think he can work his way into any team.

If Hamilton had stayed he wouldn't at McLaren, they needed a top driver for the Honda project, Button didn't fit that bill, Mercedes themselves haven't forgotten about 2007.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:50 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
If he got back at Macca, after blackmailing his own boss, then I think he can work his way into any team.

You might be right. I was shocked that he got back into Macca; I would have said never in a million years after 2007.



That happened as they had no choice, but ferrari is cut from a different cloth.


Of course they had a choice. They already had a world champion in one car.

Button who got criticised the year before and it was very much a last minute decision to drop KMag, Button wasn't seen as a lead driver for the Honda project.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 1:40 am 
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pokerman wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
cucoloco wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
What is this "putdown" from Alonso? What did he do?

I can't remember exactly, he put down the F1 drivers for one.


Can't remember, yet you are up in arms??


:lol: :thumbup:

Who said I was up in arms I'm just pointing out Alonso's nature.


Er, you haven't pointed out anything, that's the problem.

How did he put down the F1 drivers?

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:03 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
If he got back at Macca, after blackmailing his own boss, then I think he can work his way into any team.

You might be right. I was shocked that he got back into Macca; I would have said never in a million years after 2007.



That happened as they had no choice, but ferrari is cut from a different cloth.


Of course they had a choice. They already had a world champion in one car.

Button who got criticised the year before and it was very much a last minute decision to drop KMag, Button wasn't seen as a lead driver for the Honda project.


But they did have a choice.... Alonso was not the only driver with a super licence available

Edit.. also I don't remember Button being criticized. He actually drive really well in 2014 and was still considered one of the best around.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:41 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Edit.. also I don't remember Button being criticized. He actually drive really well in 2014 and was still considered one of the best around.

I can actually remember back in 2014 the general feeling that Button wasn't beating Magnussen by a large enough margin. I had to point out in a discussion on this forum that Magnussen had finished ahead of Button all of twice in the season (don't remember if that held true at season's end, but it's what I remember saying). So yeah, he probably was criticized, just like he was for his whole career. Doesn't mean he actually did a bad job, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:00 am 
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pokerman wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
my understanding is that him leaving early was not a happy parting. Happy to be proven wrong on that but I've always understood that the relationship was strained


That doesn't really answer my question though.

Alonso was not happy because he was not getting a competitive car, but how does this mean that he burnt his bridges?

I thought it did? If the relationship was strained, then it's not likely they'd want him back

The story going around at the time was that there were quite heated discussions when Ferrari wouldn't honour the verbal agreement he had with LdM and it got quite personal. Whether that's enough to burn bridges, I don't know, but that's why I put "partially."


Well the relationship was strained because of the lack of competitiveness of the car at the time. Obviously this would no longer be an issue if Alonso were to hypothetically return. So again, i don't really see how he burnt his bridges.

I think you need to live in the reality that he's not wanted at Ferrari, Mercedes or Red Bull inspite of perhaps being the best driver in F1.


Thanks for stating the obvious, but just like everyone else, you have not been able to explicitly say how he burnt his bridges at Ferrari.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:31 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
That doesn't really answer my question though.

Alonso was not happy because he was not getting a competitive car, but how does this mean that he burnt his bridges?

I thought it did? If the relationship was strained, then it's not likely they'd want him back

The story going around at the time was that there were quite heated discussions when Ferrari wouldn't honour the verbal agreement he had with LdM and it got quite personal. Whether that's enough to burn bridges, I don't know, but that's why I put "partially."


Well the relationship was strained because of the lack of competitiveness of the car at the time. Obviously this would no longer be an issue if Alonso were to hypothetically return. So again, i don't really see how he burnt his bridges.

I think you need to live in the reality that he's not wanted at Ferrari, Mercedes or Red Bull inspite of perhaps being the best driver in F1.


Thanks for stating the obvious, but just like everyone else, you have not been able to explicitly say how he burnt his bridges at Ferrari.

you appear to be fixating on this. But people have given you answers for this, just not what you want or believe, it seems


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
you appear to be fixating on this. But people have given you answers for this, just not what you want or believe, it seems


:lol:

"The relationship was strained" is not an answer!

By that reasoning, Hamilton burnt his bridges at Mclaren because the relationship was also strained there.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:05 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
you appear to be fixating on this. But people have given you answers for this, just not what you want or believe, it seems


:lol:

"The relationship was strained" is not an answer!

By that reasoning, Hamilton burnt his bridges at Mclaren because the relationship was also strained there.

I think you know there was more than that


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:06 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
you appear to be fixating on this. But people have given you answers for this, just not what you want or believe, it seems


:lol:

"The relationship was strained" is not an answer!

By that reasoning, Hamilton burnt his bridges at Mclaren because the relationship was also strained there.

McLaren would take back Hamilton in a heartbeat if they could, not sure if Lewis wants to go back there though.

Alonso would go back to Ferrari in a heartbeat if he could, not sure if Ferrari want him back though.

Therein lies the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:22 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
you appear to be fixating on this. But people have given you answers for this, just not what you want or believe, it seems


:lol:

"The relationship was strained" is not an answer!

By that reasoning, Hamilton burnt his bridges at Mclaren because the relationship was also strained there.

McLaren would take back Hamilton in a heartbeat if they could, not sure if Lewis wants to go back there though.

Alonso would go back to Ferrari in a heartbeat if he could, not sure if Ferrari want him back though.

Therein lies the difference.


You completely missed the point. :thumbup: :uhoh:


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
you appear to be fixating on this. But people have given you answers for this, just not what you want or believe, it seems


:lol:

"The relationship was strained" is not an answer!

By that reasoning, Hamilton burnt his bridges at Mclaren because the relationship was also strained there.

I think you know there was more than that


Such as?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:58 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
you appear to be fixating on this. But people have given you answers for this, just not what you want or believe, it seems


:lol:

"The relationship was strained" is not an answer!

By that reasoning, Hamilton burnt his bridges at Mclaren because the relationship was also strained there.

I think you know there was more than that


Such as?

I shouldn't feed, but...

...there was talk of ultimatums, heated discussions, not wanting to commit, terminating a valid contract early etc. Plenty more


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
you appear to be fixating on this. But people have given you answers for this, just not what you want or believe, it seems


:lol:

"The relationship was strained" is not an answer!

By that reasoning, Hamilton burnt his bridges at Mclaren because the relationship was also strained there.

I think you know there was more than that


Such as?

I shouldn't feed, but...

...there was talk of ultimatums, heated discussions, not wanting to commit, terminating a valid contract early etc. Plenty more


wow, heated discussions, really? ;)

Zoue, i think you should perhaps not buy into the sensationalism that certain media outlets add to their articles.

In terms of hard evidence, there's nothing that indicates that Alonso burnt his bridges with Ferrari.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:48 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
wow, heated discussions, really? ;)

Zoue, i think you should perhaps not buy into the sensationalism that certain media outlets add to their articles.

In terms of hard evidence, there's nothing that indicates that Alonso burnt his bridges with Ferrari.


Apart from the fact they let him leave his contract early and made no effort to resign him.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:49 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
wow, heated discussions, really? ;)

Zoue, i think you should perhaps not buy into the sensationalism that certain media outlets add to their articles.

In terms of hard evidence, there's nothing that indicates that Alonso burnt his bridges with Ferrari.


Apart from the fact they let him leave his contract early and made no effort to resign him.


But how does that indicate burnt bridges?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:57 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
wow, heated discussions, really? ;)

Zoue, i think you should perhaps not buy into the sensationalism that certain media outlets add to their articles.

In terms of hard evidence, there's nothing that indicates that Alonso burnt his bridges with Ferrari.


Apart from the fact they let him leave his contract early and made no effort to resign him.


But how does that indicate burnt bridges?


If all was rosy then why on earth would they let him leave his contract a year early?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:59 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
wow, heated discussions, really? ;)

Zoue, i think you should perhaps not buy into the sensationalism that certain media outlets add to their articles.

In terms of hard evidence, there's nothing that indicates that Alonso burnt his bridges with Ferrari.


Apart from the fact they let him leave his contract early and made no effort to resign him.


But how does that indicate burnt bridges?


If all was rosy then why on earth would they let him leave his contract a year early?


Because he wanted to...


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:12 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
wow, heated discussions, really? ;)

Zoue, i think you should perhaps not buy into the sensationalism that certain media outlets add to their articles.

In terms of hard evidence, there's nothing that indicates that Alonso burnt his bridges with Ferrari.


Apart from the fact they let him leave his contract early and made no effort to resign him.


But how does that indicate burnt bridges?


If all was rosy then why on earth would they let him leave his contract a year early?


Because he wanted to...


That doesn't explain why Ferrari let him leave. He was under contract. It also doesn't explain why they haven't tried to resign him.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:03 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:

That doesn't explain why Ferrari let him leave. He was under contract. It also doesn't explain why they haven't tried to resign him.


Well James Allison did his best to convince him to stay, but Alonso wanted to leave. No team will keep a driver against his will.

They have not tried to re-sign him because they are obviously satisfied with their current driver lineup.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:14 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

That doesn't explain why Ferrari let him leave. He was under contract. It also doesn't explain why they haven't tried to resign him.


Well James Allison did his best to convince him to stay, but Alonso wanted to leave. No team will keep a driver against his will.

They have not tried to re-sign him because they are obviously satisfied with their current driver lineup.


Actually they will. Lots of precedents of drivers having to go to the contract recognition board. Think of Button twice in the mid 00s. At the very least they get a good payout for the contract. If Ferrari wanted Alonso to stay then they would have made Mclaren pay through the nose for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Their TD wanted him to stay.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:49 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Their TD wanted him to stay.


And Newey wanted Hill to stay at Williams.... For whatever reason Ferrari were happy for Alonso to go and didn't even make there most bitter rivals pay for him. That tells you all you need to know about the relationship. I argued hard earlier in this thread against the notion that Alonso was fired but the relationship between driver and team clearly broke down. No team would let a contracted driver they wanted walk into a rival team for free.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:00 pm 
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Newey wasn't TD at Williams.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:50 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Newey wasn't TD at Williams.


That's the only thing you get from my post? Semantics. Newey was a far more powerful man in the Williams setup than Allison was at Ferrari.

Not that it matters.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:42 am 
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It was 2yrs left on his deal and I think MM and Sergio were happy to let Alonso leave if he didn't show them he was prepared to commit longer term to Ferrari and he wasn't.

I have a tin foil hat theory based on some things Mark Hughes wrote about why bridges may have got burned after that and it's the same reason why I think MM got fired. I think he blew it by not getting Alonso's departure signed off after that argument with Alonso in Singapore and before approaching Seb. So when Horner dropped his bomb before Marco could get Alonso signed off, Alonso and Briatore saw an opening to hold Ferrari's feet to the fire to get a pay off and some payback on Marco as Ferrari now had 3 contracted drivers for 2015 and Marco had likely broke a condition of Alonso's contract by not telling him they approached Seb.

That's why I think Alonso started talking about "Maybe I'll stay, Maybe I'll go" blah blah. It's why I think the McLaren deal wasn't announced for so long despite being spotted in Sakura as early as May and Marko thinking it was a done deal with McHonda the morning after Horner announced it. It was pretty much an open secret where he was going but nothing was announced for ages and I think that's because there was some legal stuff going on.

I think he (Alonso) was getting some payback on Marco for that argument in Singapore. Marco had gone from fielding 40m offers from Honda to buy Alonso out of his 2yr deal to having to pay Alonso his 2015 contract just to leave (Ted Kravitz in 2015 said Ferrari were still paying Alonso).

And I think that net 65m hole got Marco buried in the desert so to speak and why Sergio had no interest in taking Alonso back last year so I think there might be something to the whole burned bridge thing.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:28 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Their TD wanted him to stay.


And Newey wanted Hill to stay at Williams.... For whatever reason Ferrari were happy for Alonso to go and didn't even make there most bitter rivals pay for him. That tells you all you need to know about the relationship. I argued hard earlier in this thread against the notion that Alonso was fired but the relationship between driver and team clearly broke down. No team would let a contracted driver they wanted walk into a rival team for free.


Just a little more and you'll get to the point I was making of him being fired, in a n environment like F1 when your employer let's you out of your contract without any clause you've been let go without it being said as such hence the mutual consent gibberish.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:41 am 
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Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Their TD wanted him to stay.


And Newey wanted Hill to stay at Williams.... For whatever reason Ferrari were happy for Alonso to go and didn't even make there most bitter rivals pay for him. That tells you all you need to know about the relationship. I argued hard earlier in this thread against the notion that Alonso was fired but the relationship between driver and team clearly broke down. No team would let a contracted driver they wanted walk into a rival team for free.


Just a little more and you'll get to the point I was making of him being fired, in a n environment like F1 when your employer let's you out of your contract without any clause you've been let go without it being said as such hence the mutual consent gibberish.


There's a huge difference between firing someone and being fine with them leaving. You wouldn't be trying to paint it as a firing if there wasn't that difference.

Facts remain that there's zero evidence of any firing, none whatsoever. There's plenty of evidence of them being fine with him leaving.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:03 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Newey wasn't TD at Williams.


That's the only thing you get from my post? Semantics. Newey was a far more powerful man in the Williams setup than Allison was at Ferrari.

Not that it matters.


:lol: Rubbish.

Why do you think Newey left?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:07 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Newey wasn't TD at Williams.


That's the only thing you get from my post? Semantics. Newey was a far more powerful man in the Williams setup than Allison was at Ferrari.

Not that it matters.


:lol: Rubbish.

Why do you think Newey left?


Because he wanted financial shares in the team as part of his pay packet and Williams were unwilling to give them to him?


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