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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:21 am 
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Another minor mistake damaging his front wing, got away with it though

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:48 am 
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Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:20 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?

The speed advantage he had over Ricciardo was noticeable but not all that huge. The not spinning behind the virtual safety car advantage he had over Ricciardo was pretty significant, however... :o

In all seriousness, nobody questions Verstappen's speed. That's why nobody is making a big deal about him being quick in the race; we all know he's quick. But a lot of people also think he makes too many mistakes, and he made another one in this race. It was relatively minor, but that's still 5 from 5 races on the season that he's made a serious mistake in the race.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:25 am 
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Exediron wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?

The speed advantage he had over Ricciardo was noticeable but not all that huge. The not spinning behind the virtual safety car advantage he had over Ricciardo was pretty significant, however... :o

In all seriousness, nobody questions Verstappen's speed. That's why nobody is making a big deal about him being quick in the race; we all know he's quick. But a lot of people also think he makes too many mistakes, and he made another one in this race. It was relatively minor, but that's still 5 from 5 races on the season that he's made a serious mistake in the race.


Come on, that wasn't a serious mistake. He didn't lose a place, no one had to quit the race... I would argue Bahrain wasn't a serious mistake either, just a racing incident, but some people might see that differently, I agree.

He's not going to have the best race craft all of a sudden, he might never have, but it will take some time. He did what he had to do yesterday.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:32 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:
Exediron wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?

The speed advantage he had over Ricciardo was noticeable but not all that huge. The not spinning behind the virtual safety car advantage he had over Ricciardo was pretty significant, however... :o

In all seriousness, nobody questions Verstappen's speed. That's why nobody is making a big deal about him being quick in the race; we all know he's quick. But a lot of people also think he makes too many mistakes, and he made another one in this race. It was relatively minor, but that's still 5 from 5 races on the season that he's made a serious mistake in the race.


Come on, that wasn't a serious mistake. He didn't lose a place, no one had to quit the race... I would argue Bahrain wasn't a serious mistake either, just a racing incident, but some people might see that differently, I agree.

He's not going to have the best race craft all of a sudden, he might never have, but it will take some time. He did what he had to do yesterday.

credit to him: he did very well with the car after he lost the endplate and put in some decent lap times. I wrote in the race thread that it didn't appear to hamper him at all.

But at the end of the day the consequences could have been a lot more severe. He was lucky the damage wasn't more extensive and he didn't have to come in for a new wing, ending his podium hopes.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:37 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:
Come on, that wasn't a serious mistake. He didn't lose a place, no one had to quit the race... I would argue Bahrain wasn't a serious mistake either, just a racing incident, but some people might see that differently, I agree.

He's not going to have the best race craft all of a sudden, he might never have, but it will take some time. He did what he had to do yesterday.

Since when is running into the back of another car not a serious mistake? It's potentially race ending, and certainly likely to require a front wing change. As the Bahrain example highlights, the contact doesn't need to be all that severe to lead to a DNF - in Barcelona the dice came up in Max's favor, in Bahrain they didn't.

His hit on Lewis was potentially a 50/50 sort of incident, but since he crashed all on his own in qualifying he still clearly made a serious mistake for that race either way you count it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:52 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?



Is this true? Ricciardo had the fastest lap by nearly a second. 1’18.441

Also its not clear that the wing damage didn't have an effect, Vettel nearly caught him on the last lap, how did he lose such a huge advantage?


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:11 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?



Is this true? Ricciardo had the fastest lap by nearly a second. 1’18.441

Also its not clear that the wing damage didn't have an effect, Vettel nearly caught him on the last lap, how did he lose such a huge advantage?

what huge advantage?


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:50 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Also its not clear that the wing damage didn't have an effect, Vettel nearly caught him on the last lap, how did he lose such a huge advantage?

Vettel was between 3.0 and 1.8 seconds behind Max for the entire time since he came out of the pits behind him. It was usually about 2 seconds, and never more than 3. I don't know why he suddenly caught up on the last lap, but the real question is why he didn't catch up (and overtake) sooner, with fresher tyres and Max driving a damaged car.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:00 am 
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Max slowed heavily the last three laps, that's all. It wasn't anything Vettel was doing in particular. Max went 1.5s slower on lap 66 than he did on lap 64. And that in turn was 0.3s slower than the previous lap. But given how overtaking was next to impossible here, it's impossible to read anything into those figures and deduce any potential problems. He was doubtless just easing off and bringing it home


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:08 am 
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I was surprised no action was taken about Max's front wing. When Hamilton and Rosberg had their moment on the last lap of Austria 2016, Rosberg was punished for completing the lap with a damaged front wing. Yesterday's incident was long before the end of the race, and somebody ran clean over the debris that was deposited on the racing line. That made me wonder what the difference was between the two cases. :?

I also wonder what the influence of the lack of left endplate on Max's wing would have been for a car following him. The wake turbulence could be less, but might it not have been worse because it was asymmetric? And what influence would there have been with most important turns being to the right?

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:16 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?



Is this true? Ricciardo had the fastest lap by nearly a second. 1’18.441

Also its not clear that the wing damage didn't have an effect, Vettel nearly caught him on the last lap, how did he lose such a huge advantage?

what huge advantage?


2.4 sec gap to 0.8 sec gap in the last lap, not so huge as I thought so apologies. Vettel's tyres were going so I think he could have caught him if the front left wasn't shot.

The point I was making was that there wasn't much difference in speed between the two Red Bulls, MV was lucky that the damage from contact was a clean break and he didn't need to swap noses, his clumsiness might be more costly next time.
In my view he has to stop hitting people.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:47 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?



Is this true? Ricciardo had the fastest lap by nearly a second. 1’18.441

Also its not clear that the wing damage didn't have an effect, Vettel nearly caught him on the last lap, how did he lose such a huge advantage?

what huge advantage?

The huge advantage was that Ricciardo's mistake of spinning after the virtual safety car cost far more than Verstappen's mistake of impact with another car.

Also note that although Ricciardo was able to put in fastest laps, he himself said they were mixed with slower laps and his car was inconsistent.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:59 am 
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iano wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?



Is this true? Ricciardo had the fastest lap by nearly a second. 1’18.441

Also its not clear that the wing damage didn't have an effect, Vettel nearly caught him on the last lap, how did he lose such a huge advantage?

what huge advantage?

The huge advantage was that Ricciardo's mistake of spinning after the virtual safety car cost far more than Verstappen's mistake of impact with another car.

Also note that although Ricciardo was able to put in fastest laps, he himself said they were mixed with slower laps and his car was inconsistent.

I'm sorry, you've lost me a bit. How is that relevant to the advantage Max held over Vettel? :?


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
I was surprised no action was taken about Max's front wing. When Hamilton and Rosberg had their moment on the last lap of Austria 2016, Rosberg was punished for completing the lap with a damaged front wing. Yesterday's incident was long before the end of the race, and somebody ran clean over the debris that was deposited on the racing line. That made me wonder what the difference was between the two cases. :?

I also wonder what the influence of the lack of left endplate on Max's wing would have been for a car following him. The wake turbulence could be less, but might it not have been worse because it was asymmetric? And what influence would there have been with most important turns being to the right?


I can only think that Nico had a large portion of the front wing under the car - this made him really slow? I remember there were a lot of sparks from it.. I think that may have been why he was penalised?

We do seem to be getting more debris on the track than I can remember for some time.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I was surprised no action was taken about Max's front wing. When Hamilton and Rosberg had their moment on the last lap of Austria 2016, Rosberg was punished for completing the lap with a damaged front wing. Yesterday's incident was long before the end of the race, and somebody ran clean over the debris that was deposited on the racing line. That made me wonder what the difference was between the two cases. :?

I also wonder what the influence of the lack of left endplate on Max's wing would have been for a car following him. The wake turbulence could be less, but might it not have been worse because it was asymmetric? And what influence would there have been with most important turns being to the right?


I can only think that Nico had a large portion of the front wing under the car - this made him really slow? I remember there were a lot of sparks from it.. I think that may have been why he was penalised?

We do seem to be getting more debris on the track than I can remember for some time.

Verstappen's end plate flew off onto the racing line which another car hit.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I was surprised no action was taken about Max's front wing. When Hamilton and Rosberg had their moment on the last lap of Austria 2016, Rosberg was punished for completing the lap with a damaged front wing. Yesterday's incident was long before the end of the race, and somebody ran clean over the debris that was deposited on the racing line. That made me wonder what the difference was between the two cases. :?

I also wonder what the influence of the lack of left endplate on Max's wing would have been for a car following him. The wake turbulence could be less, but might it not have been worse because it was asymmetric? And what influence would there have been with most important turns being to the right?


I can only think that Nico had a large portion of the front wing under the car - this made him really slow? I remember there were a lot of sparks from it.. I think that may have been why he was penalised?

We do seem to be getting more debris on the track than I can remember for some time.

Verstappen's end plate flew off onto the racing line which another car hit.


I think it was Perez that drove over it, and it stayed under his car for quite some time.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:50 pm 
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TedStriker wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I was surprised no action was taken about Max's front wing. When Hamilton and Rosberg had their moment on the last lap of Austria 2016, Rosberg was punished for completing the lap with a damaged front wing. Yesterday's incident was long before the end of the race, and somebody ran clean over the debris that was deposited on the racing line. That made me wonder what the difference was between the two cases. :?

I also wonder what the influence of the lack of left endplate on Max's wing would have been for a car following him. The wake turbulence could be less, but might it not have been worse because it was asymmetric? And what influence would there have been with most important turns being to the right?


I can only think that Nico had a large portion of the front wing under the car - this made him really slow? I remember there were a lot of sparks from it.. I think that may have been why he was penalised?

We do seem to be getting more debris on the track than I can remember for some time.

Verstappen's end plate flew off onto the racing line which another car hit.


I think it was Perez that drove over it, and it stayed under his car for quite some time.


Yeah, quite lucky if you think what happened to Bottas just in the previous race. Losing some part of the car should be punishment enough (though not in all cases, I remember famously Massa losing a chunk of his front wing and actually going faster lap after lap). Would that size piece necessitate a safety car? I honestly don't know what the best action would be.

But I don't think a driver should be punished further, he didn't take out the car he clipped and Perez's car was also ok. If he had caused another accident then I'd agree. I admit that I do not remember the 2016 incident and any similarities to this one, but in general I do not feel that a car should be punished further if they caused no other grief in the field.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Also its not clear that the wing damage didn't have an effect, Vettel nearly caught him on the last lap, how did he lose such a huge advantage?

Vettel was between 3.0 and 1.8 seconds behind Max for the entire time since he came out of the pits behind him. It was usually about 2 seconds, and never more than 3. I don't know why he suddenly caught up on the last lap, but the real question is why he didn't catch up (and overtake) sooner, with fresher tyres and Max driving a damaged car.

Vettel was only slightly quicker than Max at that stage. His tires were only slightly newer and there just wasn't enough pace for him to pass. Barcelona was really brutal on cars following closely behind another car. Passing was only possible if you caught someone napping or if you had a solid 1.5-2.0 seconds in pace over them.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:24 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?


Lesser mistakes have ended with BOTH drivers out of the race.

Minor mistake?

I was more like 'where the hell is he going?'... very difficult to understand, since it appeared he was going to crash unless he modified his line or speed (both of which he could do) one or two seconds before he actually did go ahead and... implemented the crash...

It was pathetic. Even more after Baku.

Speedwise he did very well. But that is no excuse.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
Exediron wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Are we really going to focus on that one mistake which didn’t even effect the final result, and completely ignore the speed advantage he had over Ricciardo?

The speed advantage he had over Ricciardo was noticeable but not all that huge. The not spinning behind the virtual safety car advantage he had over Ricciardo was pretty significant, however... :o

In all seriousness, nobody questions Verstappen's speed. That's why nobody is making a big deal about him being quick in the race; we all know he's quick. But a lot of people also think he makes too many mistakes, and he made another one in this race. It was relatively minor, but that's still 5 from 5 races on the season that he's made a serious mistake in the race.


Come on, that wasn't a serious mistake. He didn't lose a place, no one had to quit the race... I would argue Bahrain wasn't a serious mistake either, just a racing incident, but some people might see that differently, I agree.

He's not going to have the best race craft all of a sudden, he might never have, but it will take some time. He did what he had to do yesterday.

It's only a mistake if it costs you that seems to be the argument, but the counter argument is that the more mistakes you make then the more likely it will end up costing you.

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