planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:50 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic

Driver(s) of the day was / were:-
1. Lewis Hamilton 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
2. Valtteri Bottas 23%  23%  [ 49 ]
3. Sebastian Vettel 4%  4%  [ 8 ]
4. Kimi Raikkonen 8%  8%  [ 16 ]
5. Daniel Ricciardo 39%  39%  [ 82 ]
6. Max Verstappen 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
7. Sergio Perez 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
8. Esteban Ocon 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
9. Sergey Sirotkin 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
10. Lance Stroll 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
11. Fernando Alonso 11%  11%  [ 24 ]
12. Stoffel Vandoorne 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
13. Pierre Gasly 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
14. Brandon Hartley 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
15. Romain Grosjean 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
16. Kevin Magnussen 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
17. Nico Hulkenberg 10%  10%  [ 22 ]
18. Carlos Sainz 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
19. Marcus Ericsson 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
20. Charles Leclerc 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 211
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:11 pm
Posts: 2000
Zoue wrote:
Bottas for me. Thought he was very unlucky with the SC and that took away his win.


Agree with this - he managed his tyres well and did great in/out laps which helped him jump Vettel. Good at resisting pressure from the 2 Ferraris too.

Ricciardo made good clean overtakes, but without that safety car he looked set for 6th.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 2533
Location: England
Bottas, Ricciardo, Raikonnen.

Bottas, for the cleanest race of the lot with a fantastic undercut. No SC, and he probably wins.

Ricciardo.... well, at least Dick Turpin wore a mask eh? Yet another smash and grab, ably assisted by quick thinking strategy and a team mate intent on wrecking his own race, backed up with some of the best overtaking you will probably see this year (even with the assistance of fresher and faster rubber). Great win

Raikonnen.... purely for having the strength of mind to still keep pounding round while the world and his wife can see him being shafted harder and harder with every lap that Ferrari left him out after it became painfully obvious that the undercut to the mediums was going to utterly wreck his race. The SC brought him back into play, and although he got a bit lucky with Max deciding to play bumper cars, I still think he would have gotten Hamilton before the end at least.

Was very close between him, Hulk and Alonso for the 3rd driver. Renault appear to have made a step clear of the midfield pace wise, while Alonso is like a bloody ferret that just will not let go, relentless.

Naughty boy of the day: Obviously Max. Hopefully chucking a win and a 1-2 away for the team will finally see the penny drop. He seems to be suffering from a mindset where he seems absolutely intent on trying to blast past the big boys (Hamilton, and to a bigger extent Vettel) at the earliest oppertunity in some kind of display of machismo (see his remark after getting Hamilton at the start of the race) and it's really starting to cost him in points. Hamilton learned the hard way about constantly upsetting other drivers, and picking fights with the 2 biggest names in town (and constantly running into them) is going to see his stock fall dramatically, in the eyes of the fans, his team, and the Stewards.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2018: {Rookie Year}
Current positon: 1st | 2 Podiums | 1 Win


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I used to think that F1 Fanatic voted for the drivers were more realistic than here. Not anymore. https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/15/vot ... nt-3738360

I am a fan of Bottas, but I find it a bit of a joke that Ricciardo has 4 times as many votes for "driver of the WEEKEND" Ricciardo was outqualified by Verstappen. Bottas out qualified his highly rated team mate. Ricciardo got past verstappen due to Verstappen's silly mistake with Hamilton. Then he basically got past the rest with much newer, softer tyres. Bottas had a good start, soon getting past and pulling away from a faster Ferrari. Managed the gap to Vettel pretty well. Did a superb lap when Vettel pitted and came out ahead. Did a great move on Kimi later on in the race. Fair enough Kimi was on old tyres but it still looked good. Then Bottas managed to hold Ricciardo behind him when he was close for longer than the drivers behind him did. Bottas just couldn't do anything else. Ricciardo made things work to perfection. I have little against him. But I don't quite understand why there are more votes for him just for a driver of the day. But about driver of the weekend on F1 Fanatic, that is getting a bit silly IMO. Anyone else agree?

I like Ricciardo, and he does make things work in this circumstances very well, but I don't think some realise quite how fortunate the team was and how easy overtaking on those tyres will have been.

I thought the basic rule of DOTW is that you can't win it if you get out qualified by your teammate?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Syholl wrote:
Come on, own up!!!! Who voted for Verstappen??😀

Somebody who doesn't like Vettel perhaps? :lol:

I think you may have noticed pokerman, but your posts seem to be created 2 or 3 times. thought I may as well mention it! :D

I'm having problems with the site, I'm not sure if it's my internet connection.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Syholl wrote:
Come on, own up!!!! Who voted for Verstappen??😀

Somebody who doesn't like Vettel perhaps? :lol:

I think you may have noticed pokerman, but your posts seem to be created 2 or 3 times. thought I may as well mention it! :D

I'm having problems with the site, I'm not sure if it's my internet connection.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
I only posted that once :lol:

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1447
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I used to think that F1 Fanatic voted for the drivers were more realistic than here. Not anymore. https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/15/vot ... nt-3738360

I am a fan of Bottas, but I find it a bit of a joke that Ricciardo has 4 times as many votes for "driver of the WEEKEND" Ricciardo was outqualified by Verstappen. Bottas out qualified his highly rated team mate. Ricciardo got past verstappen due to Verstappen's silly mistake with Hamilton. Then he basically got past the rest with much newer, softer tyres. Bottas had a good start, soon getting past and pulling away from a faster Ferrari. Managed the gap to Vettel pretty well. Did a superb lap when Vettel pitted and came out ahead. Did a great move on Kimi later on in the race. Fair enough Kimi was on old tyres but it still looked good. Then Bottas managed to hold Ricciardo behind him when he was close for longer than the drivers behind him did. Bottas just couldn't do anything else. Ricciardo made things work to perfection. I have little against him. But I don't quite understand why there are more votes for him just for a driver of the day. But about driver of the weekend on F1 Fanatic, that is getting a bit silly IMO. Anyone else agree?

I like Ricciardo, and he does make things work in this circumstances very well, but I don't think some realise quite how fortunate the team was and how easy overtaking on those tyres will have been.

I thought the basic rule of DOTW is that you can't win it if you get out qualified by your teammate?


Well Someone did make a vilid point that Ricciardo did very well to manage to get as close as he did to verstappen, but the fact is, nothing proved that he may have done better. And for two thirds of the race at leased, Ricciardo did nothing special. Verstappen had a much better start.When Ricciardo had the chance, he did everything perfectly. While those overtakes looked mighty, with the level of grip he had over the others, they will have been easier than most think. I can't take away what he did as it was brilliant but it seemed strange that Gasly basically made Ricciardo driver of the day due to triggering the safety car.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1447
pokerman wrote:
I only posted that once :lol:

And this! Some of the mods did say there were issues, but I'm not sure why they would trigger your post to come multiple times. Unless it fails and you try more times and then posts more.
It keeps saying the page doesn't exist for me when I change threads.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:13 pm
Posts: 287
If you are having issues with the Forum, the feedback thread thread is the place to let it be known.

Thanks in advance


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 504
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I used to think that F1 Fanatic voted for the drivers were more realistic than here. Not anymore. https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/15/vot ... nt-3738360

I am a fan of Bottas, but I find it a bit of a joke that Ricciardo has 4 times as many votes for "driver of the WEEKEND" Ricciardo was outqualified by Verstappen. Bottas out qualified his highly rated team mate. Ricciardo got past verstappen due to Verstappen's silly mistake with Hamilton. Then he basically got past the rest with much newer, softer tyres. Bottas had a good start, soon getting past and pulling away from a faster Ferrari. Managed the gap to Vettel pretty well. Did a superb lap when Vettel pitted and came out ahead. Did a great move on Kimi later on in the race. Fair enough Kimi was on old tyres but it still looked good. Then Bottas managed to hold Ricciardo behind him when he was close for longer than the drivers behind him did. Bottas just couldn't do anything else. Ricciardo made things work to perfection. I have little against him. But I don't quite understand why there are more votes for him just for a driver of the day. But about driver of the weekend on F1 Fanatic, that is getting a bit silly IMO. Anyone else agree?

I like Ricciardo, and he does make things work in this circumstances very well, but I don't think some realise quite how fortunate the team was and how easy overtaking on those tyres will have been.

I thought the basic rule of DOTW is that you can't win it if you get out qualified by your teammate?

I'd say that was a general trend, but not a hard and fast rule.
If someone's missed practice sessions due to no fault of their own and had qualy compromised as they were learning the car throughout then they can still have done a better job even though behind.
Also if you qualify .001 behind your teammate you've basically had a good qualifying, why should that mean you can't get DOTW?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9256
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23679
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.

The Red Bull strategists got Ricciardo his win (and subsequent votes) today. He did drive well, but he was helped massively by the tyre differential and it was like taking candy from a baby. Even the professionals appear to be taken in by the hype, with all the superlatives going into overdrive.

Ferrari, with Kimi, and Mercedes, with Hamilton, dropped the ball massively during the SC. Neither had anything to lose by going for it and they had much more to gain. Their strategists have some explaining to do and all the accolades could have been going to them instead.

Under normal circumstances, Bottas did a great job. I'm not his biggest fan, but he did exceptionally well IMO and was desperately unlucky not to pull off a win. The SC changed an awful lot of things


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14034
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.

The Red Bull strategists got Ricciardo his win (and subsequent votes) today. He did drive well, but he was helped massively by the tyre differential and it was like taking candy from a baby. Even the professionals appear to be taken in by the hype, with all the superlatives going into overdrive.

Ferrari, with Kimi, and Mercedes, with Hamilton, dropped the ball massively during the SC. Neither had anything to lose by going for it and they had much more to gain. Their strategists have some explaining to do and all the accolades could have been going to them instead.

Under normal circumstances, Bottas did a great job. I'm not his biggest fan, but he did exceptionally well IMO and was desperately unlucky not to pull off a win. The SC changed an awful lot of things


I agree with Bottas being the driver of the day but I don't think Ricciardo's win was "easy". Both Verstappen and Kimi also had a tyre advantage and really struggled to pass anyone cleanly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23679
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.

The Red Bull strategists got Ricciardo his win (and subsequent votes) today. He did drive well, but he was helped massively by the tyre differential and it was like taking candy from a baby. Even the professionals appear to be taken in by the hype, with all the superlatives going into overdrive.

Ferrari, with Kimi, and Mercedes, with Hamilton, dropped the ball massively during the SC. Neither had anything to lose by going for it and they had much more to gain. Their strategists have some explaining to do and all the accolades could have been going to them instead.

Under normal circumstances, Bottas did a great job. I'm not his biggest fan, but he did exceptionally well IMO and was desperately unlucky not to pull off a win. The SC changed an awful lot of things


I agree with Bottas being the driver of the day but I don't think Ricciardo's win was "easy". Both Verstappen and Kimi also had a tyre advantage and really struggled to pass anyone cleanly.

Even Vettel said that Max could have passed him anywhere - he was just impatient and threw it away. Kimi has mediums, so nowhere near the same thing IMO.

I’m not trying to say Ricciardo was bad, but he had a massive advantage which helped make him look good.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 2005
Bottas perfectl executed his strategy before the SC. Ricciardo perfectly executed his strategy after the SC.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 7271
Location: Belgium
Zoue wrote:
People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.
I think that's correct. But Bernd Mayländer isn't even in the voting list.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1447
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Bottas perfectl executed his strategy before the SC. Ricciardo perfectly executed his strategy after the SC.

Bottas did as much as he could before the safety car, got into first place with no benefits from certain circumstances. Then also performed to the best he possibly could and defended very hard against Ricciardo. Ricciardo was 6th and at leased two thirds of his race was nothign special at all. When given the opportunity, he performed simple brilliantly, but also had a massive advantage on everyone he overtook.

And now on F1 Fanatic, Ricciardo has 67% of the votes for driver of the weekend and I think that is clearly all based on that extremely lucky situation in the race alone which is why I think it is unfair. Bottas has over 5 times less at 13%. I think it is amazing the lack of votes Bottas has got just because he was really unlucky and finished 2nd not first even though he had to manage on really old tyres. Not as bad on this forum, but still think it is odd that the majority have gone for Ricciardo.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 2597
One might argue that both Vettel and Bottas drove pretty much fault-free races and lost out on the win through circumstance. One may also argue that Riccardo only won through team work at the SC, the impulsiveness of his team-mate and much better tyres towards the end of the race.
I'm giving it to Riccardo because he started the weekend on the back foot, last-minute engine change, not even sure whether he'd make Q1 and, after the SC, he had to make the fresher tyres work by making the passes stick.
Vettel lost the lead through being undercut, probably a bad team call but his stop itself (in-lap, pit entry) wasn't as slick as Bottas'. Bottas himself almost cam together with Riccardo with a very late defence once Ric was already committed (in his favour, he steered back out and avoided it).
Others drove very good races but, despite Alonso making very good ground again, his pass on Vettel was a bit naughty. Hulk also drove a very good race.

_________________
Where I'm going, I don't need roads


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I used to think that F1 Fanatic voted for the drivers were more realistic than here. Not anymore. https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/15/vot ... nt-3738360

I am a fan of Bottas, but I find it a bit of a joke that Ricciardo has 4 times as many votes for "driver of the WEEKEND" Ricciardo was outqualified by Verstappen. Bottas out qualified his highly rated team mate. Ricciardo got past verstappen due to Verstappen's silly mistake with Hamilton. Then he basically got past the rest with much newer, softer tyres. Bottas had a good start, soon getting past and pulling away from a faster Ferrari. Managed the gap to Vettel pretty well. Did a superb lap when Vettel pitted and came out ahead. Did a great move on Kimi later on in the race. Fair enough Kimi was on old tyres but it still looked good. Then Bottas managed to hold Ricciardo behind him when he was close for longer than the drivers behind him did. Bottas just couldn't do anything else. Ricciardo made things work to perfection. I have little against him. But I don't quite understand why there are more votes for him just for a driver of the day. But about driver of the weekend on F1 Fanatic, that is getting a bit silly IMO. Anyone else agree?

I like Ricciardo, and he does make things work in this circumstances very well, but I don't think some realise quite how fortunate the team was and how easy overtaking on those tyres will have been.

I thought the basic rule of DOTW is that you can't win it if you get out qualified by your teammate?


Well Someone did make a vilid point that Ricciardo did very well to manage to get as close as he did to verstappen, but the fact is, nothing proved that he may have done better. And for two thirds of the race at leased, Ricciardo did nothing special. Verstappen had a much better start.When Ricciardo had the chance, he did everything perfectly. While those overtakes looked mighty, with the level of grip he had over the others, they will have been easier than most think. I can't take away what he did as it was brilliant but it seemed strange that Gasly basically made Ricciardo driver of the day due to triggering the safety car.

Yes it's very much like Australia were the drivers with the most votes are the beneficiary of SC's.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I used to think that F1 Fanatic voted for the drivers were more realistic than here. Not anymore. https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/15/vot ... nt-3738360

I am a fan of Bottas, but I find it a bit of a joke that Ricciardo has 4 times as many votes for "driver of the WEEKEND" Ricciardo was outqualified by Verstappen. Bottas out qualified his highly rated team mate. Ricciardo got past verstappen due to Verstappen's silly mistake with Hamilton. Then he basically got past the rest with much newer, softer tyres. Bottas had a good start, soon getting past and pulling away from a faster Ferrari. Managed the gap to Vettel pretty well. Did a superb lap when Vettel pitted and came out ahead. Did a great move on Kimi later on in the race. Fair enough Kimi was on old tyres but it still looked good. Then Bottas managed to hold Ricciardo behind him when he was close for longer than the drivers behind him did. Bottas just couldn't do anything else. Ricciardo made things work to perfection. I have little against him. But I don't quite understand why there are more votes for him just for a driver of the day. But about driver of the weekend on F1 Fanatic, that is getting a bit silly IMO. Anyone else agree?

I like Ricciardo, and he does make things work in this circumstances very well, but I don't think some realise quite how fortunate the team was and how easy overtaking on those tyres will have been.

I thought the basic rule of DOTW is that you can't win it if you get out qualified by your teammate?

I'd say that was a general trend, but not a hard and fast rule.
If someone's missed practice sessions due to no fault of their own and had qualy compromised as they were learning the car throughout then they can still have done a better job even though behind.
Also if you qualify .001 behind your teammate you've basically had a good qualifying, why should that mean you can't get DOTW?

Well Ricciardo was 0.152s behind, it's just that we had DOTW last year and that was a general rule by most people, if Sunday basically dominates then it's just a copy of DOTD.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

He would have finished 5th at best if he could have held off Kimi who was on fresher tyres.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.

The Red Bull strategists got Ricciardo his win (and subsequent votes) today. He did drive well, but he was helped massively by the tyre differential and it was like taking candy from a baby. Even the professionals appear to be taken in by the hype, with all the superlatives going into overdrive.

Ferrari, with Kimi, and Mercedes, with Hamilton, dropped the ball massively during the SC. Neither had anything to lose by going for it and they had much more to gain. Their strategists have some explaining to do and all the accolades could have been going to them instead.

Under normal circumstances, Bottas did a great job. I'm not his biggest fan, but he did exceptionally well IMO and was desperately unlucky not to pull off a win. The SC changed an awful lot of things


I agree with Bottas being the driver of the day but I don't think Ricciardo's win was "easy". Both Verstappen and Kimi also had a tyre advantage and really struggled to pass anyone cleanly.

Even Vettel said that Max could have passed him anywhere - he was just impatient and threw it away. Kimi has mediums, so nowhere near the same thing IMO.

I’m not trying to say Ricciardo was bad, but he had a massive advantage which helped make him look good.

Plus Kimi's mediums had done a few laps.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
tootsie323 wrote:
One might argue that both Vettel and Bottas drove pretty much fault-free races and lost out on the win through circumstance. One may also argue that Riccardo only won through team work at the SC, the impulsiveness of his team-mate and much better tyres towards the end of the race.
I'm giving it to Riccardo because he started the weekend on the back foot, last-minute engine change, not even sure whether he'd make Q1 and, after the SC, he had to make the fresher tyres work by making the passes stick.
Vettel lost the lead through being undercut, probably a bad team call but his stop itself (in-lap, pit entry) wasn't as slick as Bottas'. Bottas himself almost cam together with Riccardo with a very late defence once Ric was already committed (in his favour, he steered back out and avoided it).
Others drove very good races but, despite Alonso making very good ground again, his pass on Vettel was a bit naughty. Hulk also drove a very good race.

Yeah what happened to Alonso's, "you must always leave enough space". ;)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 5736
Location: Michigan, USA
pokerman wrote:
Well Ricciardo was 0.152s behind, it's just that we had DOTW last year and that was a general rule by most people, if Sunday basically dominates then it's just a copy of DOTD.

Yes, but this is Driver of the Day. Driver of the Weekend is the one that we aren't having this year: in terms of being DotD, I don't think qualifying is relevant.

pokerman wrote:
Yeah what happened to Alonso's, "you must always leave enough space".

I think Alonso just honestly really dislikes Vettel, and probably wouldn't do the same to some other drivers.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:29 am
Posts: 244
I think some people need to remember Ricciardo almost never made it out for qualifying at all.

The engine change after Practice 3 left him with what... two or three minutes to get out and set a time?

Who knows how compromised the car setup etc. was because the mechanics were focussed on changing the engine rather than fine tuning the car.

The pressure on Ricciardo was immense. Simply to have got out and put in a reasonable lap was a feat in itself.

In normal circumstances his best possible position was 5th and he put it in 6th a small margin behind his teammate who had no dramas.


Also, for me Ricciardo’s performance in the last third of the race was extraordinary. To make four decisive, clean passes on drivers of that calibre was worthy of driver of the weekend.

Even with the extra tyre grip, they were excellent moves, so much so that the commentators were shocked they happened so soon.

If it was so easy with the better tyres, why couldn’t Max do the same?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:58 am
Posts: 180
Location: Australia
Zoue wrote:

I’m not trying to say Ricciardo was bad, but he had a massive advantage which helped make him look good.


Both Vettel and Hamilton aren't bad, they're just given way better cars which help them look good. Poor argument.

_________________
Aussie :: Ricciardo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23679
red_alert wrote:
Zoue wrote:

I’m not trying to say Ricciardo was bad, but he had a massive advantage which helped make him look good.


Both Vettel and Hamilton aren't bad, they're just given way better cars which help them look good. Poor argument.

They do, indeed. But it doesn't invalidate the point that yesterday Ricciardo was given a golden opportunity to leapfrog everyone else, by virtue of the fact that he was effectively given a substantial performance advantage and his team mate screwed the pooch. Without that massive tyre difference, neither Red Bull driver would have made the overtakes they did, as evidenced by the fact that they didn't earlier in the race. People just look at the result and think it's something amazing, but in reality it's fairly straightforward.

And in case you feel that this is somehow an anti-Ricciardo rant and you feel you have to defend him, given your location, I've written quite extensively on here that I don't feel all the superlatives about Hamilton gaining an extra 6 tenths over everyone in qualifying in Australia are that warranted, because it showed he had a car advantage and it was difficult to say how much was the car and how much the driver. I'm just not that impressed with a driver gaining performance by means of an advantage and I'm constantly surprised why more people don't see through it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:38 pm
Posts: 1856
Location: Miami, Florida
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.

The Red Bull strategists got Ricciardo his win (and subsequent votes) today. He did drive well, but he was helped massively by the tyre differential and it was like taking candy from a baby. Even the professionals appear to be taken in by the hype, with all the superlatives going into overdrive.

Ferrari, with Kimi, and Mercedes, with Hamilton, dropped the ball massively during the SC. Neither had anything to lose by going for it and they had much more to gain. Their strategists have some explaining to do and all the accolades could have been going to them instead.

Under normal circumstances, Bottas did a great job. I'm not his biggest fan, but he did exceptionally well IMO and was desperately unlucky not to pull off a win. The SC changed an awful lot of things

When Jenson Button won the Canadian Grand Prix, after unforced errors saw him having to claw his way through the field from the back, it was also due to the right place at the right time and on the right tires with the proper strategy. All of this equates to the same thing that Ricciardo enjoyed today which is LUCK.

Sometimes it's your day and today Red Bull as a whole was checking off every box at the precisely correct time and Ricciardo drove brilliantly for the most part to pick off every driver ahead. It was just dumb luck that when the safety car was deployed the Red Bull cars found themselves at the optimum position to dive into the pits. Other teams also had the option and didn't take the chance. Red Bull did and it paid off.

Why not give full credit when and where it's due? It is a Team Sport and Ricciardo won because of the combined efforts of the entire team, and it started on Saturday to boot! Bottas would probably have won had there been no safety car, but if you ask me besides the undercut, he drove a solid race, not spectacular. Ricciardo and his team had to get creative and take a chance and the team had to place their confidence in both their drivers and in the end only one of them was able to execute well enough to get the win.

_________________
HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23679
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.

The Red Bull strategists got Ricciardo his win (and subsequent votes) today. He did drive well, but he was helped massively by the tyre differential and it was like taking candy from a baby. Even the professionals appear to be taken in by the hype, with all the superlatives going into overdrive.

Ferrari, with Kimi, and Mercedes, with Hamilton, dropped the ball massively during the SC. Neither had anything to lose by going for it and they had much more to gain. Their strategists have some explaining to do and all the accolades could have been going to them instead.

Under normal circumstances, Bottas did a great job. I'm not his biggest fan, but he did exceptionally well IMO and was desperately unlucky not to pull off a win. The SC changed an awful lot of things

When Jenson Button won the Canadian Grand Prix, after unforced errors saw him having to claw his way through the field from the back, it was also due to the right place at the right time and on the right tires with the proper strategy. All of this equates to the same thing that Ricciardo enjoyed today which is LUCK.

Sometimes it's your day and today Red Bull as a whole was checking off every box at the precisely correct time and Ricciardo drove brilliantly for the most part to pick off every driver ahead. It was just dumb luck that when the safety car was deployed the Red Bull cars found themselves at the optimum position to dive into the pits. Other teams also had the option and didn't take the chance. Red Bull did and it paid off.

Why not give full credit when and where it's due? It is a Team Sport and Ricciardo won because of the combined efforts of the entire team, and it started on Saturday to boot! Bottas would probably have won had there been no safety car, but if you ask me besides the undercut, he drove a solid race, not spectacular. Ricciardo and his team had to get creative and take a chance and the team had to place their confidence in both their drivers and in the end only one of them was able to execute well enough to get the win.

If by giving credit you mean make him DotD by default I disagree. I don't see what is particularly special about overtaking cars when you have a massive performance advantage. It makes for spectacular TV, of course, which is what influences many voters, but that doesn't make it a special drive in my book. Whenever a Mercedes or Ferrari passes a backmarker I don't consider it a wow moment, for the same reason.

Ricciardo did do very well with what he was given, although I'm not particularly comfortable with his get-out-of-the-way-or-come-together approach. I just don't think that warrants DotD, that's all. I think Bottas' pass on Kimi with a smaller advantage was more skillful, personally.

I don't have a problem with luck playing a part, by the way. Agree that is part and parcel of the sport. But that's more about the result, rather than how good a drive was.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14034
Zoue wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.

The Red Bull strategists got Ricciardo his win (and subsequent votes) today. He did drive well, but he was helped massively by the tyre differential and it was like taking candy from a baby. Even the professionals appear to be taken in by the hype, with all the superlatives going into overdrive.

Ferrari, with Kimi, and Mercedes, with Hamilton, dropped the ball massively during the SC. Neither had anything to lose by going for it and they had much more to gain. Their strategists have some explaining to do and all the accolades could have been going to them instead.

Under normal circumstances, Bottas did a great job. I'm not his biggest fan, but he did exceptionally well IMO and was desperately unlucky not to pull off a win. The SC changed an awful lot of things

When Jenson Button won the Canadian Grand Prix, after unforced errors saw him having to claw his way through the field from the back, it was also due to the right place at the right time and on the right tires with the proper strategy. All of this equates to the same thing that Ricciardo enjoyed today which is LUCK.

Sometimes it's your day and today Red Bull as a whole was checking off every box at the precisely correct time and Ricciardo drove brilliantly for the most part to pick off every driver ahead. It was just dumb luck that when the safety car was deployed the Red Bull cars found themselves at the optimum position to dive into the pits. Other teams also had the option and didn't take the chance. Red Bull did and it paid off.

Why not give full credit when and where it's due? It is a Team Sport and Ricciardo won because of the combined efforts of the entire team, and it started on Saturday to boot! Bottas would probably have won had there been no safety car, but if you ask me besides the undercut, he drove a solid race, not spectacular. Ricciardo and his team had to get creative and take a chance and the team had to place their confidence in both their drivers and in the end only one of them was able to execute well enough to get the win.

If by giving credit you mean make him DotD by default I disagree. I don't see what is particularly special about overtaking cars when you have a massive performance advantage. It makes for spectacular TV, of course, which is what influences many voters, but that doesn't make it a special drive in my book. Whenever a Mercedes or Ferrari passes a backmarker I don't consider it a wow moment, for the same reason.

Ricciardo did do very well with what he was given, although I'm not particularly comfortable with his get-out-of-the-way-or-come-together approach. I just don't think that warrants DotD, that's all. I think Bottas' pass on Kimi with a smaller advantage was more skillful, personally.

I don't have a problem with luck playing a part, by the way. Agree that is part and parcel of the sport. But that's more about the result, rather than how good a drive was.


Bottas move on Kimi was superb in my opinion but surely he also had a huge tyre advantage ? Ricciardo's overtake on Bottas looked spectacular but it was actually a fairly standard out braking manoeuvre. It only looked so edgey because of Bottas moving in the braking zone.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23679
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Bottas actually had the best race and think it´s unfair that Ricciardo is winning the pole but certain people tend to vote for him no matter what. He was alright but without the SC he would probably not even have beaten his team mate, nevermind the race.

People tend to vote on the result, without actually looking at how that result was achieved.

The Red Bull strategists got Ricciardo his win (and subsequent votes) today. He did drive well, but he was helped massively by the tyre differential and it was like taking candy from a baby. Even the professionals appear to be taken in by the hype, with all the superlatives going into overdrive.

Ferrari, with Kimi, and Mercedes, with Hamilton, dropped the ball massively during the SC. Neither had anything to lose by going for it and they had much more to gain. Their strategists have some explaining to do and all the accolades could have been going to them instead.

Under normal circumstances, Bottas did a great job. I'm not his biggest fan, but he did exceptionally well IMO and was desperately unlucky not to pull off a win. The SC changed an awful lot of things

When Jenson Button won the Canadian Grand Prix, after unforced errors saw him having to claw his way through the field from the back, it was also due to the right place at the right time and on the right tires with the proper strategy. All of this equates to the same thing that Ricciardo enjoyed today which is LUCK.

Sometimes it's your day and today Red Bull as a whole was checking off every box at the precisely correct time and Ricciardo drove brilliantly for the most part to pick off every driver ahead. It was just dumb luck that when the safety car was deployed the Red Bull cars found themselves at the optimum position to dive into the pits. Other teams also had the option and didn't take the chance. Red Bull did and it paid off.

Why not give full credit when and where it's due? It is a Team Sport and Ricciardo won because of the combined efforts of the entire team, and it started on Saturday to boot! Bottas would probably have won had there been no safety car, but if you ask me besides the undercut, he drove a solid race, not spectacular. Ricciardo and his team had to get creative and take a chance and the team had to place their confidence in both their drivers and in the end only one of them was able to execute well enough to get the win.

If by giving credit you mean make him DotD by default I disagree. I don't see what is particularly special about overtaking cars when you have a massive performance advantage. It makes for spectacular TV, of course, which is what influences many voters, but that doesn't make it a special drive in my book. Whenever a Mercedes or Ferrari passes a backmarker I don't consider it a wow moment, for the same reason.

Ricciardo did do very well with what he was given, although I'm not particularly comfortable with his get-out-of-the-way-or-come-together approach. I just don't think that warrants DotD, that's all. I think Bottas' pass on Kimi with a smaller advantage was more skillful, personally.

I don't have a problem with luck playing a part, by the way. Agree that is part and parcel of the sport. But that's more about the result, rather than how good a drive was.


Bottas move on Kimi was superb in my opinion but surely he also had a huge tyre advantage ? Ricciardo's overtake on Bottas looked spectacular but it was actually a fairly standard out braking manoeuvre. It only looked so edgey because of Bottas moving in the braking zone.
yes Bottas had an advantage against Kimi, but it was nothing compared with the two-tyre compound advantage the Red Bulls had. I think Kimi still had a (small) chance to defend against Bottas, whereas everyone was pretty powerless against the Bulls.

I know we have a different view on Ricciardo's move. I personally find it a bit too kamikaze for my tastes. I just don't like the fact that responsibility for avoidance is passed 100% to the other party in that way, and it wouldn't be the first time. And yes, I know that any outbraking move requires some degree of cooperation, but it's the degree for me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14034
Zoue wrote:
yes Bottas had an advantage against Kimi, but it was nothing compared with the two-tyre compound advantage the Red Bulls had. I think Kimi still had a (small) chance to defend against Bottas, whereas everyone was pretty powerless against the Bulls.

I know we have a different view on Ricciardo's move. I personally find it a bit too kamikaze for my tastes. I just don't like the fact that responsibility for avoidance is passed 100% to the other party in that way, and it wouldn't be the first time. And yes, I know that any outbraking move requires some degree of cooperation, but it's the degree for me.


Oh I agree generally. I just don't think the pass on Bottas was one of those. Even though Bottas forced him as tight as possible he still hit the apex. It would have looked like a perfectly standard out braking move had Bottas not moved in the braking zone.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well Ricciardo was 0.152s behind, it's just that we had DOTW last year and that was a general rule by most people, if Sunday basically dominates then it's just a copy of DOTD.

Yes, but this is Driver of the Day. Driver of the Weekend is the one that we aren't having this year: in terms of being DotD, I don't think qualifying is relevant.

pokerman wrote:
Yeah what happened to Alonso's, "you must always leave enough space".

I think Alonso just honestly really dislikes Vettel, and probably wouldn't do the same to some other drivers.

I guess you haven't read all the posts the DOTW was referencing another site.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 5736
Location: Michigan, USA
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well Ricciardo was 0.152s behind, it's just that we had DOTW last year and that was a general rule by most people, if Sunday basically dominates then it's just a copy of DOTD.

Yes, but this is Driver of the Day. Driver of the Weekend is the one that we aren't having this year: in terms of being DotD, I don't think qualifying is relevant.

pokerman wrote:
Yeah what happened to Alonso's, "you must always leave enough space".

I think Alonso just honestly really dislikes Vettel, and probably wouldn't do the same to some other drivers.

I guess you haven't read all the posts the DOTW was referencing another site.

You're right, I missed that. Never mind... :-P

Still, I don't think being out-qualified should automatically rule you out. It's certainly a mark against, but if it's an automatic DSQ that gives qualifying way too much weight in my opinion.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Travelling around the world
Bottas, Ricciardo, Hulk in that order

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27477
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well Ricciardo was 0.152s behind, it's just that we had DOTW last year and that was a general rule by most people, if Sunday basically dominates then it's just a copy of DOTD.

Yes, but this is Driver of the Day. Driver of the Weekend is the one that we aren't having this year: in terms of being DotD, I don't think qualifying is relevant.

pokerman wrote:
Yeah what happened to Alonso's, "you must always leave enough space".

I think Alonso just honestly really dislikes Vettel, and probably wouldn't do the same to some other drivers.

I guess you haven't read all the posts the DOTW was referencing another site.

You're right, I missed that. Never mind... :-P

Still, I don't think being out-qualified should automatically rule you out. It's certainly a mark against, but if it's an automatic DSQ that gives qualifying way too much weight in my opinion.

Being able to rule out qualifying just makes it another version of DOTD though.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 5736
Location: Michigan, USA
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Still, I don't think being out-qualified should automatically rule you out. It's certainly a mark against, but if it's an automatic DSQ that gives qualifying way too much weight in my opinion.

Being able to rule out qualifying just makes it another version of DOTD though.

No, that's not true. Qualifying certainly still enters into it, but you're advocating a binary in which being out-qualified means you cannot possibly overcome that on the race day. I don't agree with that. I think your performance on race day can be - but usually is not - strong enough to balance out a slight margin against in qualifying. Is being out-qualified by a tenth or so really so dire that it takes a driver entirely out of consideration?

I think in Driver of the Weekend one should consider both, and qualifying slightly behind Verstappen isn't exactly a terrible performance on Saturday. If he'd crashed in qualifying, or been a really large margin behind, I'd agree that might rule him out. But 1.5 tenths isn't a huge amount, especially considering the total lack of practice Ricciardo managed on Saturday.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], MB-BOB and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group