Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Pole2Win wrote:
Bobafett wrote:
The thing is if the Honda engine has truly gotten its act together McLaren will look stupid, giving up works team status and yes the Renault engine is good but its not a works deal is it? And they partly did it to keep Alonso happy, a driver whom is reaching retirement age and whose mind is already looking to other pursuits
When has Alonso ever been good at planning his future and helping the team move in the direction of success? Ferrari for example only went backwards with him as the leading driver.
This is why I think Schumacher is the greatest of all drivers. He brought Ferrari from zero to hero. Can't say the same of Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Kimi, Senna...
Ferrari finished 4th in the last season without Alonso and 4th in the last season with Alonso. They didn't go backwards.
Some time back I actually looked into Alonso's presence statistically and came up with the following conclusions:
When looking at the WCC, Minardi was better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
McLaren were better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
Renault (stint 1) were the same before Alonso joined them, but worse after he left them.
Renault (stint 2) were better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
Ferrari were better off after Alonso joined them, but also better off after he left them.
McLaren were better off before Alonso joined them.
In 8/11 cases Alonso's presence had a negative influence
2/11 positive influence.
1/11 neutral influence.
How was Renault stint 1 the same before he joined? They went from 4th to the double double with him and when he left they went to 3rd . (7th to the double double if you include his year as test driver being the start of his influence).
He's a driver who's moved a lot from big team to big team without having the quickest car (ie he leaves when they are struggling). You're not going to find a lot of times the works support teams he's been in don't eventually come good after that.
Macca should've won the WCC in 07. They didn't in 06.
Ferrari were 4th in 09. With him they were 3rd in 2010.
Renault were 4th in 02. They went on to the double double
Renault(2) were 4th and winless the year before (elevated to 3rd by McLaren expulsion) and 4th when he rejoined and won a race on merit.
McHonda efforts are obviously pretty special circumstances but everywhere else saw improvement with him there. Jumping the ship too early is an obvious criticism you can lay at him but I'm not seeing this negative influence when he arrives at all, quite the opposite.
And that's ignoring the reasons and context of each move or improvement. Like Ferrari's infrastructure when he joined being outdated and not fixed until 2013. Or Marchionne coming in once Alonso leaves and completely overhauling their sim tools with hundreds of millions spent on dynos that Luca refused to do. How are they not going to improve in this scenario?